Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 62 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1831 of 1858 Old 06-29-2015, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post
I check out the link, very good for determining WHAT the OPPO does, but what I want to know is How Well It Does It?

I'm open to any information on how well the Streaming aspect works relative to other Streamers.

Thanks.

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post #1832 of 1858 Old 06-29-2015, 05:39 AM
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I've had no issues using DLNA over a good wireless connection. It plays .mp3 and all .flac files fine. I haven't played with DSD though. Others have reported high success with SMB as well. I haven't really used the Android app though I have it installed on my tablet. I still prefer to play music from either physical media or a USB stick. YMMV.

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post #1833 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 09:14 AM
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Unhappy harsh, strident sound - interconnects?

Hi all,

Recently acquired a BDP-105D on Craigslist and hooked it up this weekend.

Previous system chain: PS3/Mac Mini --> glass optical / USB --> Peachtree Audio Nova125 (integrated DAC/amp) --> Clear Day Cables Double Shotgun solid core silver cables --> Magnepan 1.6QR

New system chain: Oppo BDP-105D --> Clear Day Cables solid core silver unshielded, unbalanced interconnects --> Peachtree Audio Nova125 --> double shotguns --> Maggies

(Bolded components are the only things I changed.) Speakers set to large and proper stereo settings enabled in the Oppo. Fixed signal output and use Peachtree preamp functionality. Power conditioner is APC H15. Everything plugged into appropriate filtered ports. Power cables for Oppo and Peachtree are Shunyata Venom3.

The first thing I noticed when upgrading the chain was a much harsher and strident sound using some material I was pretty familiar with. After letting the system settle for a day or two, I tried again yesterday and the same negative attributes were still present. Curious, I hooked up my same optical cable from the Oppo to the Peachtree (bypassing the Oppo DAC and the interconnects) and the sound I was used to returned, a little less detailed and with slightly less resolution, but not cringe-worthy.

Since the Oppo uses the ESS Sabre 9018 chip and the Nova125 uses the ESS Sabre 9023 chip, I doubt the DAC switch is the culprit and think it's probably the silver interconnects. They are a 1m pair, unshielded, using the same solid core silver as my speaker cables that I preferred when A/Bing two years ago to the copper speaker cables I demoed against (AntiCables level 3 reference).

Has anyone here had a similar experience? Any recommendations for a good copper RCA interconnect to try out and determine whether the silver interconnect is the culprit? Sort of disappointed after reading about the player for so many years to not be able to listen to it comfortably for more than a few minutes after first hookup...

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post #1834 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 09:53 AM
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ZoNtO
I experienced a similar issue some years back. I tried using a pair of preowned Kimber Silver Streak interconnects that I purchased via Audiogon or eBay and voila, thin sound and anemic bass. I substituted Kimber Hero copper interconnects and problem solved. At the time, I was using a Sony 5400 ES SACD player and an ARCAM AVR-600. While I use Kimber Hero interconnects, obviously there are a myriad of other good choices. Why not buy a pair of inexpensive interconnects from your local brick and mortar Radio Shack or Walmart to see if your problem is largely resolved. If your sound improves with the cheap copper interconnects, then you can take your time to do the research to find some good interconnects that can be your 100 % solution.
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post #1835 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 10:00 AM
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The harsher sound is because the dedicated stereo ES9018 dac only uses 1 pair for the rca, 1 pair for the xlr, and 2 pairs for the headphone amp. The bdp-95 sounds much more smooth because all 4 pairs were stacked to the output stage. I own both and use the 105 for only movie playback.. (yes should have purchased the 103 version instead). This is an interesting read: wiki.oppodigital.com/index.php?title=BDP-105_Hardware_FAQ
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post #1836 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by kennyboy2 View Post
ZoNtO
I experienced a similar issue some years back. I tried using a pair of preowned Kimber Silver Streak interconnects that I purchased via Audiogon or eBay and voila, thin sound and anemic bass. I substituted Kimber Hero copper interconnects and problem solved. At the time, I was using a Sony ES SACD player and an ARCAM AVR-600. While I use Kimber Hero interconnects, obviously there are a myriad of other good choices. Why not buy a pair of inexpensive interconnects from your local brick and mortar Radio Shack or Walmart to see if your problem is largely resolved. If your sound improves with the cheap copper interconnects, then you can take your time to do the research to find some good interconnects that can be your 100 % solution.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. That sounds like a good plan. I have a couple feeler emails out to local dealers to see if they have a shielded, copper set I can demo quickly. Considering the Oppo's Sabre DAC is considered somewhat lean and the Maggies are bright, I'm sure copper would be a better choice anyway. Even if something else is going on here, it would give me greater peace of mind.

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The harsher sound is because the dedicated stereo ES9018 dac only uses 1 pair for the rca, 1 pair for the xlr, and 2 pairs for the headphone amp. The bdp-95 sounds much more smooth because all 4 pairs were stacked to the output stage. I own both and use the 105 for only movie playback.. (yes should have purchased the 103 version instead). This is an interesting read: wiki.oppodigital.com/index.php?title=BDP-105_Hardware_FAQ
Thanks for your help. I had seen that link in my research before, but read it with new eyes today. Perhaps this is why all the modders seem to focus on upgrading the analog stage of the unit and leave the DAC alone?
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post #1837 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 10:44 AM
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Perhaps this is why all the modders seem to focus on upgrading the analog stage of the unit and leave the DAC alone?
The output stage is much easier to modify than the DAC because it is tied to many other systems in the unit. I have 6 devices with ESS dacs over the last several years and unless they come out with a new technology, I am done with them. I recently acquired a dac that uses the original Burr Brown PCM1704 ladder dac with a tube output stage. For redbook material, I find it much more pleasing than the ESS offerings.
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post #1838 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 01:00 PM
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ZontO, give the Oppo at least 200 hours to burn in, probably more like 400 hours. My 105D sounded pretty harsh at first too but it did smooth out and the soundstage opened up beautifully. The Oppo is anything but harsh, regardless of how many DAC channels are stacked to the fronts. I often like to listen to the front channels with a headphone amp and it sounds much better than the headphone port, so I disagree with STUGUY2014 and his theory about stacking multiple DAC channels.
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post #1839 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 01:25 PM
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I leave my BDP-105 on 24/7. You do have to give it more time, and play music thru it as much as possible. The silver cable won't help with smoothing the top end.
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post #1840 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 02:05 PM
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Forgot to mention that this was a used purchase from a guy in my town, so it's not brand new out of the box. It was probably on for 50 hours, but I turned it off before work today given the intense heat we're having on the east coast.

My gut says it's the interconnect cable, the silver and/or lack of shielding, but I think I would feel more comfortable with copper anyway (just for peace of mind). All listening has been with the Peachtree's small tube buffer enabled as well. I've gotten a few positive responses from local dealers, including a Cardas retailer, re: demos so I'll give a couple different copper cables a try.
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post #1841 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 02:36 PM
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Without knowing how much play time the original owner put on it, it's hard to know if it's burnt in yet. But Sharp1080 is right, just leaving it powered on won't do it. You have to play it, even with the amp off. It took a long time for me to reach 200 hours of play time. The Oppo is not a lush player by any means. It's very detailed, but not harsh. Are the silver interconnects the problem? Sure, could be.
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post #1842 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 02:42 PM
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I don't find the 105 harsh either in my setup.
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post #1843 of 1858 Old 07-20-2015, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ZoNtO View Post
Hi all,

Recently acquired a BDP-105D on Craigslist and hooked it up this weekend.
...

New system chain: Oppo BDP-105D --> Clear Day Cables solid core silver unshielded, unbalanced interconnects --> Peachtree Audio Nova125 --> double shotguns --> Maggies

(Bolded components are the only things I changed.) Speakers set to large and proper stereo settings enabled in the Oppo. Fixed signal output and use Peachtree preamp functionality. Power conditioner is APC H15. Everything plugged into appropriate filtered ports. Power cables for Oppo and Peachtree are Shunyata Venom3.

The first thing I noticed when upgrading the chain was a much harsher and strident sound using some material I was pretty familiar with. After letting the system settle for a day or two, I tried again yesterday and the same negative attributes were still present. Curious, I hooked up my same optical cable from the Oppo to the Peachtree (bypassing the Oppo DAC and the interconnects) and the sound I was used to returned, a little less detailed and with slightly less resolution, but not cringe-worthy.

Has anyone here had a similar experience? Any recommendations for a good copper RCA interconnect to try out and determine whether the silver interconnect is the culprit? Sort of disappointed after reading about the player for so many years to not be able to listen to it comfortably for more than a few minutes after first hookup...
Your issue has nothing to do with the 105's DACs, your type of interconnect cables, or power cables. I believe your source of "harshness" is the input sensitivity of your Peachtree preamp coupled with Oppo's unbalanced output voltage at fixed(max) volume. Your Peachtree's specs say that it has an input sensitivity of 1.2 volts. The Oppo's rca outputs at fixed(max) output are 2.1 volts rms. You are way overdriving your preamp. You need to put your Oppo into variable volume, and lower it down about 6 db, which would cut its voltage output in half. Since each step of volume on the Oppo is 1/2 db, you'll need to lower volume to around 88 (which would produce an Oppo unbalanced output voltage of around 1.05 volt rms. The harsh sound should go away after doing this.
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post #1844 of 1858 Old 07-21-2015, 07:50 AM
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Your issue has nothing to do with the 105's DACs, your type of interconnect cables, or power cables. I believe your source of "harshness" is the input sensitivity of your Peachtree preamp coupled with Oppo's unbalanced output voltage at fixed(max) volume. Your Peachtree's specs say that it has an input sensitivity of 1.2 volts. The Oppo's rca outputs at fixed(max) output are 2.1 volts rms. You are way overdriving your preamp. You need to put your Oppo into variable volume, and lower it down about 6 db, which would cut its voltage output in half. Since each step of volume on the Oppo is 1/2 db, you'll need to lower volume to around 88 (which would produce an Oppo unbalanced output voltage of around 1.05 volt rms. The harsh sound should go away after doing this.
Thanks for pointing that out. I had looked for sensitivity figures on the Peachtree site and missed that somehow. I've reached out to them to confirm and will try the variable output tonight.

Playing music without the amp turned on as well to see if some break-in helps as well.

EDIT: Is there any reason to not just use 89 or 90 so that the voltage is a little closer to 1.2, but still under? Per my calculations, 90 on the Oppo would output just over 1.18 volt rms. Better to keep it a bit lower for more headroom?

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post #1845 of 1858 Old 07-21-2015, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ZoNtO View Post

EDIT: Is there any reason to not just use 89 or 90 so that the voltage is a little closer to 1.2, but still under? Per my calculations, 90 on the Oppo would output just over 1.18 volt rms. Better to keep it a bit lower for more headroom?
You certainly can bring up your Oppo volume a couple notches, if desired. I would just error on the side of a lower value, and let your preamp boost the unbalanced signal output from your Oppo. From the Oppo's standpoint, you won't notice any difference in dynamic range with those high volumes you're setting (especially 70 and up), so you can adjust Oppo volume until the harshness is inaudible.
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post #1846 of 1858 Old 07-21-2015, 06:55 PM
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I run the Oppo 105D with balanced XLR to an Audio research LS 15 preamplifier and believe this provides the best set-up, given the same would be true with a BAT preamplifier, as well others in the same class.

To me, the Oppo 105 is the best player with HDMI for a processor for the money. I do not think the stereo sound surpasses an Esoteric K3, or even DV 50s, but they cost much more and hardly a fair comparison.

My point, a high-end preamplifier, not a processor, will improve the sound over running direct to an amplifier.

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post #1847 of 1858 Old 07-21-2015, 07:35 PM
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My point, a high-end preamplifier, not a processor, will improve the sound over running direct to an amplifier.
I think both might improve sound. I previously ran analog surround and SW directly from the Oppo 105 to the amps, with front LR passing through a Parasound JC 2 BP preamp. To enable surround DSD from a Sony XA5400ES, I added a Cary Cinema 12 to the loop via HDMI and analog 7.1. Surround sound and bass management seem improved. Front LR are passed through the JC 2 BP that the Cary shares with an Ayre C-5xeMP and JC 3 phono stage that are used for stereo.

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post #1848 of 1858 Old 07-22-2015, 05:38 AM
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I'm glad to see this thread because I've got my eyes on a 105 specifically for audio replay and to replace an Ayre CX-7 .....I have mentioned on the 103 thread today that What Hi-fi magazine was less than ecstatic about the player.

I have to say....and I don't know why....probably following audio forums (specifically Audiogon) over the years and finding sometimes my experience is at odds with products (mainly cables to be fair) that have had almost universal praise. There is something telling me don't sell the Ayre until you've tried the 105 in my system (Ayre AX-7 and Proac 2.5's)....I'm not sure the 28 day return works in the UK does it?

Anyway I'm really keen to hear specific audio experiences with the 105. And I'm sorry but I don't think I have ever heard burn in with any product....and I have tried believe me. I really do believe your brain adjusts...
Well known for that, a very biassed magazine that tends to favour products in its reviews who advertise with them in preference to those who do not. They have had a similar flavour of bias against other Oppo models which when reviewed by other well known and trusted reviewers come out on top of the pile.
I in most cases treat all of their reviews with scepticism unless substantiated else where and in recent years have not bothered with it unless it is in the dentists waiting room where the less painful pass time is the treatment if needed.
Go for the 105 you won't be disappointed
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post #1849 of 1858 Old 07-22-2015, 06:20 AM
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Well known for that, a very biassed magazine that tends to favour products in its reviews who advertise with them in preference to those who do not. They have had a similar flavour of bias against other Oppo models which when reviewed by other well known and trusted reviewers come out on top of the pile.
I in most cases treat all of their reviews with scepticism unless substantiated else where and in recent years have not bothered with it unless it is in the dentists waiting room where the less painful pass time is the treatment if needed.
Go for the 105 you won't be disappointed
That's a very very old quote you dug out. I bought the Oppo 105 which I rate very highly albeit I have since relegated the Oppo to 2nd place in my system due to the purchase of an Esoteric SACD player. Still have the Oppo though-it's the family machine now.
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post #1850 of 1858 Old 07-22-2015, 08:02 AM
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That's a very very old quote you dug out. I bought the Oppo 105 which I rate very highly albeit I have since relegated the Oppo to 2nd place in my system due to the purchase of an Esoteric SACD player. Still have the Oppo though-it's the family machine now.
Yes sorry about that I just saw the reference to that 'magazine' and just wanted to point out their reputation for totally honest reviews is suspect. I don't have the 105 it didn't play nicely on HDMI1 with my earlier set up (probably the earlier TV's fault although possibly the Pio AVR) suspect it would be fine with the current Denon 4520 and latest Panny TV. So I got the 95 for the main system to complement the 93 in the den both of which I am very happy with but in particular the analogue side of the 95 for SACD and CD. I'll wait now to see what Oppo will do for the 4K side of things. By the way I'm a bit further North, in Aberdeen, although I know the West coast pretty well having spent a long time over there.
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post #1851 of 1858 Old 07-22-2015, 03:49 PM
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Sony XA5400ES, I added a Cary Cinema 12 to the loop via HDMI and analog 7.1. Surround sound and bass management seem improved. Front LR are passed through the JC 2 BP that the Cary shares with an Ayre C-5xeMP and JC 3 phono stage that are used for stereo.


db
This seems indicative of the Cary Cinima 12 being a very good sounding processor?

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Go for the 105 you won't be disappointed
I agree! For all the Oppo does, it is truly a bargain. I am not sure it tops the Ayre on audio CDs and SACDs?

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That's a very very old quote you dug out. I bought the Oppo 105 which I rate very highly albeit I have since relegated the Oppo to 2nd place in my system due to the purchase of an Esoteric SACD player. Still have the Oppo though-it's the family machine now.
Well yes, those who own them, the Esoteric K3 will about top any payer; even the older DV 50s does more for Redbook CDs. Never heard the K1 or the P series; no doubt they would be hard to beat! Accuphase makes some very nice SACD players. The way I see it, not too many are spending 20 grand on Esoteric or Accuphase players?

For me, being leery of high claims of these super high-end players by anyone who does not live with one, and has the gear to hear the sonic improvement, in diminishing returns, on the best 100K+ stereo systems?

The great thing about the Oppo 105, we are talking about a player not much more than a grand, while the Ayre, if I remember correctly costs about three times more? I think of all these very high end payers as mainly audio devices sing their own internal DACs.

If the player is used through HDMI, then the 103 seems to make more sense, as why pay for DACs if you do not use them?

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post #1852 of 1858 Old 07-22-2015, 04:20 PM
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If the player is used through HDMI, then the 103 seems to make more sense, as why pay for DACs if you do not use them?
Absolutely. I don't think anybody would recommend the 105 if you plan on using HDMI (or digital audio) out. On the other hand, if you are going to use analog audio out, then the 105 should certainly be considered.
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post #1853 of 1858 Old 07-23-2015, 01:14 AM
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This seems indicative of the Cary Cinima 12 being a very good sounding processor?



I agree! For all the Oppo does, it is truly a bargain. I am not sure it tops the Ayre on audio CDs and SACDs?



Well yes, those who own them, the Esoteric K3 will about top any payer; even the older DV 50s does more for Redbook CDs. Never heard the K1 or the P series; no doubt they would be hard to beat! Accuphase makes some very nice SACD players. The way I see it, not too many are spending 20 grand on Esoteric or Accuphase players?

For me, being leery of high claims of these super high-end players by anyone who does not live with one, and has the gear to hear the sonic improvement, in diminishing returns, on the best 100K+ stereo systems?

The great thing about the Oppo 105, we are talking about a player not much more than a grand, while the Ayre, if I remember correctly costs about three times more? I think of all these very high end payers as mainly audio devices sing their own internal DACs.

If the player is used through HDMI, then the 103 seems to make more sense, as why pay for DACs if you do not use them?
To save people digging through all the threads here's my history of upgrades recently.

I bought the Oppo 105 on spec-I had an Ayre AX-7/CX-7 amp/CD combo with Proac 2,5 speakers.

My Ayre CX-7 was the original player-no upgrades, it was £3K when I bought it. As it turned out the Oppo beat it in straight stereo. It's only stereo I'm really interested in though obviously I play movies again in stereo through my amp.
Because the CX-7 was redundant I traded both my older Ayre pieces against a Luxman L505U amp. I lived quite happily with that set up for about a year.

Then I hit a big birthday and the good lady said why not get yourself something nice in the hi-fi world. I did a pair of Proac D40R's 2nd hand. To cut a long story short I went on a long amp search to get the right amp for those. I ended up eventually with an Esoteric A-100 and of course I didn't finish there I got an older Esoteric X-03SE this year just to bring the finishing touches. That Esoteric frankly flattens the Oppo on stereo but in it's day it was a £7K player so that's not a shock. My dealer actually rates only the K1 as being superior he never rated the K3's transport-of course Esoteric have players up above that.

For the price the Oppo is superb, the flexibility and stereo ability is really good. I would recommend it to anyone. And when I bought the Esoteric the good lady said I hope the Oppo isn't going. :-)
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post #1854 of 1858 Old 07-23-2015, 02:03 AM
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In my experience, the sound of neither the Oppo 105 nor Sony XA5400ES is up to that of the Ayre C-5xeMP, although the Sony with balanced output into the Parasound JC 2 gets close for SACDs. I'm not sure why the contrast when playing CDs is so vivid. I was just playing Jazz at the Pawnshop using the Oppo into the analog 7.1 input of the Cary Cinema 12, then switched to the HDMI input. I preferred the sound using the HDMI connection, with the Cary doing the processing. Blu-ray DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD are superb using the Oppo to Cary HDMI connection.

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post #1855 of 1858 Old 07-23-2015, 05:40 AM
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In my experience, the sound of neither the Oppo 105 nor Sony XA5400ES is up to that of the Ayre C-5xeMP, although the Sony with balanced output into the Parasound JC 2 gets close for SACDs. I'm not sure why the contrast when playing CDs is so vivid. I was just playing Jazz at the Pawnshop using the Oppo into the analog 7.1 input of the Cary Cinema 12, then switched to the HDMI input. I preferred the sound using the HDMI connection, with the Cary doing the processing. Blu-ray DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD are superb using the Oppo to Cary HDMI connection.

db
I think it was well quoted when the Ayre C-5 came it out that it was a very good player and also the Ayre upgrades to even the CX-7 were rated as very worthwhile. I was stuck back with the original player.

I'm not sure if I understand the full context of what your saying however you might the balanced connection is giving your greater volume than what you are comparing it against-that will always throw you.
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post #1856 of 1858 Old 07-23-2015, 11:13 AM
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I'm not sure if I understand the full context of what your saying however you might the balanced connection is giving your greater volume than what you are comparing it against-that will always throw you.
The Parasound JC 2 seems to pad XLR input so the level doesn't jump when switching between single-ended and balanced inputs. The Ayre uses an XLR input to the JC 2 BP as did the Sony before I connected it to the Cary C12 via HDMI for DSD surround. What was striking was that the Sony was close to the Ayre when playing SACDs, but not when playing CDs. I have read that Sony concentrated on SACD when they developed the XA5400ES. I have the Ayre, Oppo 95 and 105, and Sony, any of which is a fine disc player for music, but the 105 is used almost exclusively for HT except for music on Blu-ray.

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post #1857 of 1858 Old 07-23-2015, 11:25 AM
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The Parasound JC 2 seems to pad XLR input so the level doesn't jump when switching between single-ended and balanced inputs. The Ayre uses an XLR input to the JC 2 BP as did the Sony before I connected it to the Cary C12 via HDMI for DSD surround. What was striking was that the Sony was close to the Ayre when playing SACDs, but not when playing CDs. I have read that Sony concentrated on SACD when they developed the XA5400ES. I have the Ayre, Oppo 95 and 105, and Sony, any of which is a fine disc player for music, but the 105 is used almost exclusively for HT except for music on Blu-ray.

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Interesting. I don't think I've ever experienced that type of difference on a player-it has tended to go right across formats. Your theory makes sense to me though.
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post #1858 of 1858 Old Today, 07:59 AM
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To save people digging through all the threads here's my history of upgrades recently.

I bought the Oppo 105 on spec-I had an Ayre AX-7/CX-7 amp/CD combo with Proac 2,5 speakers.

My Ayre CX-7 was the original player-no upgrades, it was £3K when I bought it. As it turned out the Oppo beat it in straight stereo. It's only stereo I'm really interested in though obviously I play movies again in stereo through my amp.
Because the CX-7 was redundant I traded both my older Ayre pieces against a Luxman L505U amp. I lived quite happily with that set up for about a year.

Then I hit a big birthday and the good lady said why not get yourself something nice in the hi-fi world. I did a pair of Proac D40R's 2nd hand. To cut a long story short I went on a long amp search to get the right amp for those. I ended up eventually with an Esoteric A-100 and of course I didn't finish there I got an older Esoteric X-03SE this year just to bring the finishing touches. That Esoteric frankly flattens the Oppo on stereo but in it's day it was a £7K player so that's not a shock. My dealer actually rates only the K1 as being superior he never rated the K3's transport-of course Esoteric have players up above that.

For the price the Oppo is superb, the flexibility and stereo ability is really good. I would recommend it to anyone. And when I bought the Esoteric the good lady said I hope the Oppo isn't going. :-)
Good to hear this! I very much like Oppo!

I agree, Esoteric is hard to beat for audio, then one should expect something for the higher price? The K 3 is one model beneath the K 1, used the same transport, but the K 1 has even better DACs. I would have purchased the K 1; however, after listening to both, if the K1 had the edge on sound quality, I did not think it would be evident on my system. ARC LS 15-BAT VK 75se-ML speakers. Now using an older Classe CA 200, sold the BAT. lost quite a bit of sound quality!. I have been dropping down in the dedicated stereo, and might sell the K 3?

It sounds like you have a get system!

Little Denon system, Denon 2808ci
Polk M40, front and surround, CS2 center.Yamaha subwoofer
Sony 222 es SACD/CD player
Panasonic Blu-Ray player
Sony dual DVD and VCR player.
LG 46" HDTV.
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