Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 64 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1891 of 1926 Unread 12-31-2015, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoNtO View Post
The Oppo may measure flat, but it, like most Sabre DAC implementations I've heard, does not sound flat.
That makes no sense. That is like saying a car that measures fast, isn't fast. Huh?
Most amps and dacs are perfectly flat from 10hz to 20khz, or even 2hz to 80khz in many cases.

The human ear is 150hz to 15khz +-5db. If it were a speaker measurement it would be considered "horrible".

60% of the sound you hear in the wall reflections and your ears. (Room reflections are 100% distortion BTW.)
35% of the rest of the sound you hear is your speakers.
5% is electronics (if that...)

Many wall reflections can have -40db nulls and +20db peaks in them, human hearing isn't flat either (it changes with both SPL or frequency), and most speakers "reasonably" flat from 30hz to 20khz +-5db.
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post #1892 of 1926 Unread 12-31-2015, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxaudio View Post
Hi All,
Greeting! I registered today just to ask question about USB streaming via Windows 10. If the answers is already out there, I must admit my googling skill is lacking and so far can't find anything specific in forums.

I got a demo Oppo 105 unit (not 105d) from a dealer just for home demo purpose for 2 channels audio. I tried CD playback, connect a usb hard disk, and async usb streaming via my Windows 10 laptop. I found that usb streaming sounded the worse. Very flat sounding. CD and usb hard disk sounded much better. I am kind of disappointed. I already have Peachtree Nova125 doing usb streaming from my Windows 10. It sounded much better as compared to Oppo USB streaming. Everything else from source to speakers are the same, even the Windows 10 audio device setup settings, like 100% volume and no processing.

Anyone else have experience streaming via Windows 10? I do like Oppo a bit better than my Peachtree in term of bass definition when using CD or USB hard disk. However, the usb async streaming quality issues I encountered is a no-go for me.

Thanks!
Odds are you need to upgrade the music app in Windows 10 that you are using to feed the Asynchronous USB DAC Input of the OPPO. I don't know what they offer as their default app, but Microsoft's bundled music apps seem to get poor reviews.

Also keep in mind that audio fed to that Async USB DAC input goes DIRECTLY to the DACs in the OPPO. No audio processing is possible. So, for example, if you were expecting the OPPO to provide bass steering (Crossover processing), that can't happen when using the Asynchronous USB DAC Input.
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post #1893 of 1926 Unread 12-31-2015, 02:44 PM
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I actually suspect Oppo usb driver issue. Although my Peachtree Nova 125 worked just fine using the same Windows player, Oppo sounded really bad with same player.

I got Emotiva dac just a few days ago and they provide a different usb driver just for Windows 10. It sounded fine too using the same Windows player. May be Oppo need a new USB driver just for Windows 10?

Anyway, I was not using Oppo to do bass control. Just full range out. I use preamp and subs controls to do bass management.

Thanks all for the reply. Do note that I have found a better dac for my usage and unfortunately it is not the Oppo.
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post #1894 of 1926 Unread 01-02-2016, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
That makes no sense. That is like saying a car that measures fast, isn't fast. Huh?
Most amps and dacs are perfectly flat from 10hz to 20khz, or even 2hz to 80khz in many cases.

The human ear is 150hz to 15khz +-5db. If it were a speaker measurement it would be considered "horrible".

60% of the sound you hear in the wall reflections and your ears. (Room reflections are 100% distortion BTW.)
35% of the rest of the sound you hear is your speakers.
5% is electronics (if that...)

Many wall reflections can have -40db nulls and +20db peaks in them, human hearing isn't flat either (it changes with both SPL or frequency), and most speakers "reasonably" flat from 30hz to 20khz +-5db.
It may not make sense to you, or you may not agree, and that's fine. Your car analogy is flawed, but if anything it's like saying that a car's speedometer says it's going 65mph when in reality it's going 63 or 64.

The rest of your electrical and acoustic measurement arguments are irrelevant here. I compared the Oppo's DAC to an outboard DAC in the exact same system (down to the cabling), in the same room, with the speakers in the exact same spot, sitting with my butt in the same imprint in my listening location. The Oppo sounds leaner and less real (especially with cymbals) despite both DACs measuring flat in the range audible to human hearing. You'll find similar opinions about leanness if you search this thread.

Measurements are important, but they aren't everything. I'd prefer not to derail the thread further.
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post #1895 of 1926 Unread 01-02-2016, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoNtO View Post
It may not make sense to you, or you may not agree, and that's fine. Your car analogy is flawed, but if anything it's like saying that a car's speedometer says it's going 65mph when in reality it's going 63 or 64.

The rest of your electrical and acoustic measurement arguments are irrelevant here. I compared the Oppo's DAC to an outboard DAC in the exact same system (down to the cabling), in the same room, with the speakers in the exact same spot, sitting with my butt in the same imprint in my listening location. The Oppo sounds leaner and less real (especially with cymbals) despite both DACs measuring flat in the range audible to human hearing. You'll find similar opinions about leanness if you search this thread.

Measurements are important, but they aren't everything. I'd prefer not to derail the thread further.
I wonder whether the outputs from the Oppo and the DAC were level matched? If not, that could explain the differences you hear.
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post #1896 of 1926 Unread 01-02-2016, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post
I wonder whether the outputs from the Oppo and the DAC were level matched? If not, that could explain the differences you hear.
The Oppo RCA outputs send a slightly hotter signal at 2.1v (fixed) as compared to a stated 2.0v from the outboard DAC. Volumes controlled through the integrated amp, though I noticed the differences I described at numerous volume levels set thereby. This was after using the Oppo exclusively for months.
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post #1897 of 1926 Unread 01-02-2016, 05:31 AM
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^ I suggest you get in touch with OPPO Tech Support to see if they have any diagnostic tests to figure out what is going on here. Other Beta Testers using Windows 10 with the USB DAC Input have not noticed the sort of audio quality issue you are reporting.

There is a slightly newer version of the Windows driver available on the OPPO Support page for the HA-1 headphones amp.

The DAC Input uses a separate data path into the DAC, so it is possible your unit has a hardware problem on that data path.

It may come down to you just preferring the sound of your external DAC, but it's worth checking because this is not a common result.
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post #1898 of 1926 Unread 01-11-2016, 01:08 PM
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Hi all,
Anybody upgrade the fuse in the 105? Oppo sent me a email saying that it was non-replaceable. Not quite understanding that.
thanks,
Russ
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post #1899 of 1926 Unread 01-11-2016, 02:31 PM
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Hi all,
Anybody upgrade the fuse in the 105? Oppo sent me a email saying that it was non-replaceable. Not quite understanding that.
thanks,
Russ
No I haven't, and have no plan or desire to change the fuse. I have really stopped the OCD I had when younger. I have read on some of the audiophile forums about changing fuses in their preamps and some amplifiers. However I did change out the stock power cord, and use high quality XLR cables for 2 channel playback. Let the flaming begin!
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post #1900 of 1926 Unread 01-11-2016, 02:42 PM
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Lets not even talk about swapping receptacles or installing conditioners for that matter!!
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post #1901 of 1926 Unread 01-13-2016, 12:07 PM
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Followup to Bob P #1882

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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
You can't get those 3 scenarios without making a settings change between them. For example the two sets of Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs -- the RCA pair and the XLR pair -- don't have separate settings.

Let's start with your #3 .
1) Wire Dedicated L/R RCA to the LF/RF multi-channel RCA input jacks of your Classe
2) Wire multi-channel C/LS/RS/LR/RR/Sub to the other multi-channel RCA input jacks of the 7.1 input set on your Classe
3) Set Stereo Signal to FRONT LEFT/RIGHT. This configures the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs (both pairs) to respond to all the settings that would normally apply to LF/RF of the multi-channel output set.
4) In Speaker Configuration, set Down-mix to 7.1, and set all Speakers to LARGE with the Subwoofer ON.

In this configuration, the Subwoofer will need +10dB boost, external to the OPPO, to match the level of the other speaker RCA jacks. That boost may be provided automatically by the Classe as it passes the Subwoofer signal through to the Sub. If not, adjust it with the Volume knob on the Sub itself.

Check your levels using a calibration disc and a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter. I recommend the LPCM test tracks on AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray. The goal is to get all the channels, including the Sub to produce the same SPL. Typically you adjust main Volume to get 75dB SPL from LF, and then use trims to adjust the other channels to match as necessary. In the specific case of the Sub, use the Volume knob on the Sub itself to adjust instead of using its trim setting in the OPPO. As an added refinement, if you end up with any trims above 0dB, lower ALL of the trims (including Sub) the same amount so that all the trims are now either 0 or negative. Compensate by raising main Volume.

The result is that all of your normal speaker channels will be sent a Full Range signal. The Subwoofer will only be sent content in the LFE channel (the ".1" of 5.1 or 7.1). So when playing Stereo content (like a CD), which HAS no LFE channel, the Sub will be silent.

NOTE 1: I'm assuming you have no bass management enabled in the Classe itself, and that you are not routing your speaker signals through any other Crossover, such as in the Subwoofer. Indeed an Crossover in the Subwoofer itself should either be Disabled or should be cranked up to the highest possible frequency to get it out of the way as much as possible. It is important that bass management only be done in one place. And if you want your main speakers to be run Full Range, bass management should not be happening ANYWHERE. The settings above disable bass management (Crossover processing) in the OPPO.

NOTE 2: The Sub RCA output of the OPPO has to go through the Classe -- i.e., you can't wire it directly to the Subwoofer -- as otherwise its level won't respond to any volume changes you make in the Classe.

----------------------------

By the way, I don't recommend running speakers Full Range. It is a rare speaker that can produce bass AT VOLUME as well as a decent Subwoofer. Indeed, unless your normal speakers have powered woofers, odds are they can't really hit the deep bass notes at volume. I'm talking down to, say 15Hz.

If you decide to use a Crossover in the OPPO, I'd suggest trying a 60Hz setting. This rolls in over an octave (factor of 2 in frequency), so that the speakers are producing everything 60Hz and above, the Sub is producing everything 30Hz and below, and the Sub and speakers together share the load between 30 and 60Hz.

To employ a Crossover, set the normal speakers to SMALL (and Subwoofer still ON). With the Crossover enabled (i.e., when any speakers are set to SMALL), the Sub output will now need +15dB boost (not +10dB) external to the OPPO. The extra 5dB allows headroom so that LFE and steered bass can share the same output without clipping the input on your Classe. Again, use a calibration disc and an SPL meter. When you achieve 75dB SPL from all speaker and the Sub then you are done. The correct amount of sub boost is now baked in, whether that was provided entirely by Volume knob adjustment on the Sub, or by a mix of Volume on the Sub and Sub channel boost provided automatically by the Classe.

-----------------------------

But back to your original #3 setup -- where all the normal speakers are Full Range.

Now what happens in your #1 setup --i.e., if you play Stereo content and use the XLR pair of the Dedicated Stereo outputs to a separate Stereo input pair on your Classe? Remember the RCA Dedicated pair and the other 5.1 channels of the OPPO's multi-channel output are still connected to the 7.1 multi-channel input of your Classe?

First of all, check that your Classe is OK having both RCA and XLR inputs connected simultaneously. Some pre-amps are not, even if you are not trying to mix RCA and XLR connections into a single listening setup.

That aside, the XLR outputs of the OPPO will work identically to the RCA Dedicated Stereo outputs -- except that just by the way XLR works, the XLR outs are +6dB hotter.

That means that Crossover processing, volume trims, and speaker distance adjustments all get applied to the Dedicated XLR outputs the same way they are applied to the Dedicated RCA outputs -- and again, this stuff gets applied *BECAUSE* we set Stereo Signal = FRONT LEFT/RIGHT above in the #3 setup.

But in the #3 setup we disable Crossover processing (setting all Speakers to LARGE). So as long as you are OK with the Volume Trims and Speaker Distances applying to the Dedicated XLR outs the same way they apply to the Dedicated RCA outs, you are good to go.

Note that in this #1 setup the Subwoofer output of the OPPO multi-channel set will be *SILENT*. You are playing STEREO content -- no LFE channel -- and you have LF/RF set to LARGE as part of the #3 setup, so no steered bass goes to that output either. Of course when you select the XLR stereo input of the Classe to listen to, you wouldn't hear anything on that RCA Sub output of the OPPO anyway.

So what happens in this #1 configuration if you play multi-channel content? The answer is that only the LF/RF channel content will make it out the Dedicated XLR L/R pair. By setting Stereo Signal to FRONT LEFT/RIGHT you've disable automatic down-mixing. Instead the Speaker Configuration > Down-Mix setting now applies and it is set to 7.1 -- i.e., no down-mixing at all. So if you play a 7.1 track in this #1 configuration, the C/LS/RS/LR/RR/LFE channels will all be discarded. The LF/RF channels will be played Full Range out the Dedicated XLR L/R pair.

--------------------------------------------------

That leaves your #2 configuration. A 2.1 channel output intending to use the Dedicated RCA L/R pair.

The easiest way to get that is to start with your #3 configuration (above). I.e., you are going to play into the MULTI-CHANNEL input of the Classe -- but with the C/LS/RS/LR/RR channels silent. Only the Dedicated L/R and the Sub will have sound.

To achieve that, you need to make two settings changes. First, you have to go into Speaker Configuration and switch LF/RF from LARGE to SMALL. (Whatever Crossover frequency you have set will now apply to those). Second, you need to go into the Sub and raise its Volume Trim 5dB higher. When any speakers are SMALL the Sub needs +15dB volume boost, and in configuration #3 above we set things up for +10dB boost.

Now ideally this additional +5dB Sub boost would be done external to the player. If there's any easy way to get the Classe to do that, for example, then do it there instead.

NOW when you play Stereo content -- which again, has no LFE channel -- the Dedicate Stereo Analog outs (both the RCA and XLR pair) will have Crossover processing engaged. Bass in those channels will be steered to the Sub RCA output of the OPPO's multi-channel set.

In the Classe, you select to listen to its multi-channel Input.

Note that you do not have to make a change to the Speaker Configuration > Down-Mix setting nor to the Stereo Signal setting. You have 7.1 Down-mix set in configuration #3 , and since you are playing content with fewer channels (Stereo) no down-mixing happens.

----------------------------------------------------

Now suppose you take my advice and change your #3 configuration to NOT send Full Range to the normal speakers?

To do that, you would modify configuration #3 so that all the speakers are set to SMALL (and Sub ON) with an appropriately choose Crossover frequency. I would suggest you go no lower than 60Hz for Crossover. Let the Sub handle everything 30Hz and below.

As stated above, when you set up this modified #3 , you will need +15dB of Sub boost, external to the player, for example by adjusting the Sub's own Volume knob. Again, you confirm you have this correct using a calibration disc and an SPL meter.

Once set this way, multi-channel content will send both LFE and steered bass from your SMALL speakers out the RCA Subwoofer output of the multi-channel set. They will be in balance with each other, and once the required +15dB boost is applied to that Sub signal they will also be in balance with the rest of the RCA outputs of the multi-channel set.

And as with the original #3 configuration, the LF/RF channels will actually be wired from the Dedicated Stereo Analog RCA L/R jacks.

But what happens if you now play STEREO content? Well, without making any changes you get a 2.1 output! The Dedicated L/R jacks and the Sub output will feed into the multi-channel input of the Classe. The other channels of the multi-channel set will be silent. And the SAME +15dB boost for the Sub you already had set up will still be CORRECT!

You don't have to change anything. You leave Speaker Configuration > Down-mix at 7.1. You leave Stereo Signal at FRONT LEFT/RIGHT. You leave all the volume trims and the sub boost as already set. And you can switch between multichannel and stereo content at will.

So that gets you configuration #2 and a modified (with Crossover) configuration #3 without having to make any settings changes -- both playing into the multi-channel input of your Classe.

-------------------------------------------------------

OK, so what about configuration #1 ? That's 2.0 output via XLR to a separate stereo input pair on the Classe.

Well to get that, all you need to do is change Stereo Signal from FRONT LEFT/RIGHT to DOWN-MIXED STEREO. This configures the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs (both the RCA and the XLR pair) to operate INDEPENDENTLY of the Speaker Configuration settings that apply to the LF/RF outputs of the multi-channel set.

With Stereo Signal DOWN-MIXED STEREO set, the Dedicated Stereo XLR pair gets a Full Range signal. If you play multi-channel content, the XLR gets a "Stereo" down-mix, except wth the LFE channel discarded, but again it is a Full Range signal. The Sub setup, including Sub boost, is irrelevant because you are not listening to the Sub output of the OPPO. (The Sub RCA jack still GETS output according to the multi-channel configuration, but the Classe is not using that signal when you select its stereo XLR input pair.)

So MY recommendation would be to use these last two configuration. The first use the multi-channel outputs of the OPPO into the multi-channel input of the Classe, and gets you BOTH your #2 and your #3 configurations automagically, simply by playing stereo vs. multi-channel content. No settings changes and the Sub boost is correct for both.

Meanwhile you get your #1 configuration (2.0, only) by making JUST ONE setting change in the OPPO -- changing Stereo Signal from FRONT LEFT/RIGHT to DOWN-MIXED STEREO) while also switching your Classe to listen on its XLR stereo pair input instead of its multi-channel RCA input.

Again, all of the above assumes no bass management (Crossover processing) is enabled in the Classe, in the Sub, or in any other gadget in your signal path.
--Bob

Bob ( or other 105 Gurus),
Referencing the above post #1882 , thanks for the great explanation.
I have two followup questions:
1. Bob do you feel there is a performance difference between employing hdmi or the USB DAC for two channel audio? The frame of reference for my question is that I like to employ multiple subs and this is not possible when the USB is the input. Also I am moving to Dirac/minidsp and would like to equalize/correct which will be easier with Hdmi. I believe your quote is "analog is not for the faint of heart"!
2. You also highly recommend setting small and crossing LF for example at 60 Hz to a sub. I have Def Tech Mythos ST on FR/FL. Would your recommendation change in this case? Although not ideally located, by operating the powered subs in the Mythos' (along with separate DT Super Cube), some room modes could be controlled better.
Measurements I have taken with Dirac indicate the Mythos ST extends down to about 22 Hz at -3dB.
Thanks very much Bob or others with a take,
Happy New Year
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post #1902 of 1926 Unread 01-13-2016, 12:37 PM
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^ A crossover of 60Hz means the speakers are expected to contribute quality output for another full octave (factor of 2 in frequency) below that.

If you have the OPPO doing the Crossover processing then, yes, I still recommend you (1) enable the Crossover by setting speakers SMALL, and (2) select a Crossover frequency in the range 60Hz to 90Hz. Not below and not above.

-------------------------------

For your intended use, it looks like HDMI will do the job better for you. Of course you can try it both ways (USB DAC vs HDMI) and listen for yourself.

Technically the DAC direct path should provide a better result at the expense of offering no audio processing than volume control. Whether you can HEAR that will depend on not only the rest of your equipment, but on the music software you are using on the computer to feed the digital audio stream to that DAC input.
--Bob

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post #1903 of 1926 Unread 01-13-2016, 07:17 PM
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I will try to make this the final followup Bob.
Would anything change if JRiver was the player and if I accomplished bass management in JRiver and not the Oppo?
Thanks again Bob.
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post #1904 of 1926 Unread 01-13-2016, 07:21 PM
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^ You can't use JRiver to do bass management if your intent is to get the OPPO to output the Analog audio. What JRiver sends to the OPPO is files that are rendered into audio by the OPPO. Bass management can't happen until after that rendering.
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post #1905 of 1926 Unread 01-14-2016, 01:12 PM
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At the risk of disagreeing with a legend, ..., I will cautiously do that. Very cautiously.
It is definitely possible that I don't understand the electronics, so coach me up if need be.
How is it possible that bass management is not possible in JRiver? There is an entire suite of tools in JRMC. In fact there are many recommendations that BM be accomplished in JRiver prior to Dirac which is prior to Oppo. All done in the digital domain which is ideal.
I think.
I use the Oppo solely as a DAC (and a disk spinner). HDMI or USB in . Then the analog is passed to the Emotiva XMC for volume control and on to Wyred4Sound MC amp.
I'm not sure what the exact meaning of "renderer" is. I think of that as the Oppo pulling content directly from a hard drive somewhere. Again I admit I might have it wrong. That's not my method.
I have an i5 Broadwell NUC solely used as a JRiver platform which reads content from a Synology NAS.
My main objective is to determine if there is a performance difference between HDMI 2CH in vs. USB DAC in on the Oppo 105D.
Thanks Bob, and everybody.
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post #1906 of 1926 Unread 01-16-2016, 11:12 PM
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Not to detract from the usual fussing about speaker setups and streamers, but listening to The Nat King Cole Story SACDs from Analogue Productions on the 105 is truly an amazing experience showing just what they were able to capture on tape back in the late 1950s but had no means to reproduce upon playback.
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post #1907 of 1926 Unread 01-17-2016, 12:13 PM
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Yeah, I received the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab remastering of Bob Dylan Highway 61 Revisited and the Analog Productions remastering of the Red Seal recording of the Heifetz performance of the Tschaikowsky violin concerto. The sound of each is spectacular -- although the 3 channel "stereo" of the violin sounded harsh in 2 channel stereo, but sweet in 3 channel.
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post #1908 of 1926 Unread 01-18-2016, 12:58 PM
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Mobile Fidelity does a great job

Ric
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post #1909 of 1926 Unread 01-18-2016, 01:00 PM
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Oppo

Mobile Fidelity does a great job

Ric
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post #1910 of 1926 Unread 01-31-2016, 07:45 AM
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I read the first seven pages of the thread and searched, but I don't see a comment from someone who directly and critically compared the 105 to the 103. Has anyone owned both and compared the sound from the analog outs? Is the 105 really noticeable better? If so, in what specific way or ways? I have the 103 and the output sounds very, very good to me.
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post #1911 of 1926 Unread 01-31-2016, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Not to detract from the usual fussing about speaker setups and streamers, but listening to The Nat King Cole Story SACDs from Analogue Productions on the 105 is truly an amazing experience showing just what they were able to capture on tape back in the late 1950s but had no means to reproduce upon playback.

One of the main reasons is because they used the Grimm AD1 for final A/D conversion on those. The best analog to DSD converter on the market by far. Super low distortion. Really tight and true sound.


I wish Mobile Fidelity would use the AD1 for there releases too, as the converter they are using leaves something to be desired. It's results are bit artificially softened with rounded edges. Not as good as it could be.
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post #1912 of 1926 Unread 01-31-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
I read the first seven pages of the thread and searched, but I don't see a comment from someone who directly and critically compared the 105 to the 103. Has anyone owned both and compared the sound from the analog outs? Is the 105 really noticeable better? If so, in what specific way or ways? I have the 103 and the output sounds very, very good to me.
This is interesting because it really hasn't come up as a major topic of discussion on these forums.
I honestly feel that the overall sound quality of the analog output between the 103 and 105 are very close.
The 105 gives you a little more detail and clarity, and what little extra it does give you, you certainly need to
have other top quality equipment to be able to hear it (higher end speakers, amps, etc...).
While the 105 does sound slightly better (to my ears) this doesn't take away from the fact that the 103 models
also sound very good. People often surmise that because the 105 is better,
that must mean that the 103 doesn't sound good, and it's just not true.

If the only thing you need from the analog audio is 7.1 for movies and music, and you have a lower or middle end system
to connect it to, then the 103/103D will be an excellent fit.
Other factors to consider though, are all the features that are also included on 105/105D that aren't on the 103/103D,
including but not limited to, dedicated stereo analog output, async usb and digital audio inputs, headphone jack, and more.
Now if you have a higher end system and want the very best resolve and detail in the sound from analog audio,
then you would want to go with a 105/105D, but the overall sound quality between the 103 and 105,
is much closer than most people realize.

What I have also seen is some people have just purchased both models and then compared them in their own setup,
and then decide which one to send back. IIRC, the only thing this costs the buyer is the cost of shipping since Oppo
has a generous return policy that gives you a full refund of the purchase price for returns within the return period.
http://www.oppodigital.com/Support_Store.aspx

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #1913 of 1926 Unread 02-01-2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
This is interesting because it really hasn't come up as a major topic of discussion on these forums.
I honestly feel that the overall sound quality of the analog output between the 103 and 105 are very close.
The 105 gives you a little more detail and clarity, and what little extra it does give you, you certainly need to
have other top quality equipment to be able to hear it (higher end speakers, amps, etc...).
While the 105 does sound slightly better (to my ears) this doesn't take away from the fact that the 103 models
also sound very good. People often surmise that because the 105 is better,
that must mean that the 103 doesn't sound good, and it's just not true.

If the only thing you need from the analog audio is 7.1 for movies and music, and you have a lower or middle end system
to connect it to, then the 103/103D will be an excellent fit.
Other factors to consider though, are all the features that are also included on 105/105D that aren't on the 103/103D,
including but not limited to, dedicated stereo analog output, async usb and digital audio inputs, headphone jack, and more.
Now if you have a higher end system and want the very best resolve and detail in the sound from analog audio,
then you would want to go with a 105/105D, but the overall sound quality between the 103 and 105,
is much closer than most people realize.

What I have also seen is some people have just purchased both models and then compared them in their own setup,
and then decide which one to send back. IIRC, the only thing this costs the buyer is the cost of shipping since Oppo
has a generous return policy that gives you a full refund of the purchase price for returns within the return period.
http://www.oppodigital.com/Support_Store.aspx

Thanks for the reply. I'm looking for critical comparisons of the two by owners of both. I'm someone who tends to hear the subtle differences between players, and I've owned some high end players in the past, including Sony ES and Marantz. I do not have a high end system, but I still could hear and appreciate the difference such players provide. I mostly only use the analog outs to listen to 2 channel music on SACD and CD.


BTW, I expect the difference to be fairly subtle...a little cleaner and more detailed and maybe a little smoother.

Last edited by RWetmore; 02-01-2016 at 12:21 PM.
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post #1914 of 1926 Unread 02-01-2016, 04:47 PM
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If you do receive feedback regarding the differences, don't forget it will still be an subjective opinion. Take it for what you may gain if anything? I purchased my 105 definitely for the analog outputs. I use the XLR outputs, and always have with my 2 channel listening.
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post #1915 of 1926 Unread 02-02-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
Thanks for the reply. I'm looking for critical comparisons of the two by owners of both. I'm someone who tends to hear the subtle differences between players, and I've owned some high end players in the past, including Sony ES and Marantz. I do not have a high end system, but I still could hear and appreciate the difference such players provide. I mostly only use the analog outs to listen to 2 channel music on SACD and CD.


BTW, I expect the difference to be fairly subtle...a little cleaner and more detailed and maybe a little smoother.
Your last line of comments is a pretty good assessment.
Based on your description of what you like, need, appreciate and what you'll use the player for,
I think you're a pretty good candidate for the 105 and would be happy with it.

One of the biggest factors in the implementation of the DAC in the 105 is the fine details in the music.
So many people like different things like "warmth" or even "brightness" to bring out the upper end of the spectrum.
The 105 tends to stay more toward the middle with an ever so slight lean toward the warmer side.

I also don't have what audiophiles would consider a high end system, but it's enough to hear the resolve
of what the 105 can do with the fine details in music.
...and to put it bluntly, there is better stuff out there, but you will have to pay more than twice the price of the 105 to get it.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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post #1916 of 1926 Unread 03-03-2016, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
Your last line of comments is a pretty good assessment.
Based on your description of what you like, need, appreciate and what you'll use the player for,
I think you're a pretty good candidate for the 105 and would be happy with it.

One of the biggest factors in the implementation of the DAC in the 105 is the fine details in the music.
So many people like different things like "warmth" or even "brightness" to bring out the upper end of the spectrum.
The 105 tends to stay more toward the middle with an ever so slight lean toward the warmer side.

I also don't have what audiophiles would consider a high end system, but it's enough to hear the resolve
of what the 105 can do with the fine details in music.
...and to put it bluntly, there is better stuff out there, but you will have to pay more than twice the price of the 105 to get it.
Regarding fine details in the music: Have recently got a 105D to use direct in to a pair of Geithain 906 studio monitor speakers, and have kept the Oppo 83 previously driving them.

When playing CDs there is much more detail and often so much to the point that for some recording I prefer the 83. When you hear all sorts of recording artifacts it often detracts from the music and sounds artificial in a bad way. Music which is full of magical surprises on the 83 loses its naturalness. Instead, on the 105D I hear, for example, the harsh sound of microphoned voices rather than being enthralled by the illusion of a singer's voice without any electronics in between the source and my ears. This happens on what I imagine most people would consider well recorded material (ECM recordings etc).

On other really well recorded discs which have a natural sound stage the extra detail can be magical, significantly surpassing the 83, as the 105 is capable of doing sound stage depth so much better.

I've now decided to audition external DACs with the Geithains, comparing them with each other and with the oppo bdps. Another option is to modify the room to absorb some of the low volume detail - could do this perhaps using portable acoustic absorption screens to deaden the room a bit as required with certain recordings!

For me the 83 is definitely not detailed enough, and I'm definitely getting "too much" detail in many recordings using the 105D.

Last edited by pibroch; 03-03-2016 at 09:20 PM. Reason: left out some essential detail + typo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pibroch View Post
Regarding fine details in the music: Have recently got a 105D to use direct in to a pair of Geithain 906 studio monitor speakers, and have kept the Oppo 83 previously driving them.

When playing CDs there is much more detail and often so much to the point that for some recording I prefer the 83. When you hear all sorts of recording artifacts it often detracts from the music and sounds artificial in a bad way. Music which is full of magical surprises on the 83 loses its naturalness. Instead, on the 105D I hear, for example, the harsh sound of microphoned voices rather than being enthralled by the illusion of a singer's voice without any electronics in between the source and my ears. This happens on what I imagine most people would consider well recorded material (ECM recordings etc).

On other really well recorded discs which have a natural sound stage the extra detail can be magical, significantly surpassing the 83, as the 105 is capable of doing sound stage depth so much better.

I've now decided to audition external DACs with the Geithains, comparing them with each other and with the oppo bdps. Another option is to modify the room to absorb some of the low volume detail - could do this perhaps using portable acoustic absorption screens to deaden the room a bit as required with certain recordings!

For me the 83 is definitely not detailed enough, and I'm definitely getting "too much" detail in many recordings using the 105D.
Update to my above post:

Problem solved!!!!

Have just compared the sound of a CD played by the 105D to that of an AIFF download of the same CD played from an iPad2 via USB to 105D and out via balanced XLR to the Geithain speakers. The sound of the latter chain was so much more resolving and natural that I have resolved (pun intended) to never play a CD again! Not only has the proverbial veil been lifted but the extra detail, including the previously much-maligned recording artifacts, is now more than acceptable. Am now in musical heaven.

After this experience am finding it hard to imagine that there are better sounding DACs than the 105D using USB input. Of course am speaking from ignorance, having never tried any other dacs using separate computer and dac boxes.

Last edited by pibroch; 03-08-2016 at 02:46 AM. Reason: grammer
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post #1918 of 1926 Unread 04-14-2016, 09:34 AM
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Hello
I have just switched from Oppo 83SE to Oppo 105.


One thing that a liitle puzzles me is the volume of stereo output.


I noticed that on the same amplifier setting I played CDs on 83SE - on Oppo 105 I have to crank up the amplifier to have similar loudness. (On Oppo 105 I maxed volume on the remote control by pressing "plus")

Is it something wrong with this Oppo 105? Or was simple Oppo 83SE louder on the stereo outputs and as a result more harsh and less detailed?

Have you noticed anything like that? Does anyone also have to have his amplifier cranked up more (while listening to Cds) than you had with Oppo 83SE?

I will be very grateful for your comments.

Best Regards
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post #1919 of 1926 Unread 04-14-2016, 01:16 PM
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What about the quality when streaming a good MKV video, with dts-ma codec?
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post #1920 of 1926 Unread 04-14-2016, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by israelcs View Post
What about the quality when streaming a good MKV video, with dts-ma codec?
when streaming a good MKV video with dts codec - everything seems to be fine.
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