Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 67 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #1981 of 2008 Old 11-10-2016, 05:09 PM
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I tried following the math a few pages back to figure out how to set my system up but I got totally lost.

Here's what I know:

I have an Emotive MPS-1 (and DMC-1 Pre/Pro, but contemplating taking that out of the system and using my 105D lieu of it) and here are the specs I was able to track down:

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier...nalysis-part-1

The reviewer measured the voltage gain as:
Unbalanced: Av = 27dB
Balanced: AV = 26dB

and said, "It took about 1.65Vrms to drive the MPS-1 to full power."

When I connect my 105D to the amp directly I have to keep the volume down to around 60. I saw a recommendation to get some attenuators so I'll dig back through the thread to see which ones to buy unless someone posts suggestions in response to my post.

In the meantime, however, what would be the effect of reducing all of my speakers' trim levels by 10dB? Does this make an effective -10dB attenuation or does it reduce the fidelity in the same way as turning the volume down -10dB?

This question stems from what I thought I read about turning down a digital volume control and its relationship to the DACs' bits thereby resulting in reduced fidelity at low enough volumes. If I understand that relationship relatively accurately, does it hold true when I turn the volume down via the trim levels? Also, are there other considerations in doing this?

-10dB via trims gives me 20 volume clicks to adjust, correct?
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post #1982 of 2008 Old 11-13-2016, 07:44 PM
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Marantz AV7701 DAC vs Oppo 105D

I've searched many threads high and low for the answer to my question, and I havent found what I need yet, so here I am. Here's my scenario:

My equipment:

-Episode 950 Series L/R
900 Series Center
900 Series Surrounds
-Klipsch 12" Subwoofer

-Marantz AV7701 PreAmp

-Emotiva XPA-5 Amplifier

I'm finally ready for my first Oppo player. Would I benefit from buying the Oppo 105D and running multi channel out into my AV7701, or should I just buy the 103D and run HDMI out and let the AV7701 DAC do the processing. Basically, is it worth the extra $700ish for the DAC in the 105D to do the processing instead of the Marantz PreAmp. Any and all info is appreciated. Im supposed to buy the 103D tomorrow but I'll buy the 105D instead if it would benefit me.
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post #1983 of 2008 Old 11-13-2016, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne404 View Post
I've searched many threads high and low for the answer to my question, and I havent found what I need yet, so here I am. Here's my scenario:

My equipment:

-Episode 950 Series L/R
900 Series Center
900 Series Surrounds
-Klipsch 12" Subwoofer

-Marantz AV7701 PreAmp

-Emotiva XPA-5 Amplifier

I'm finally ready for my first Oppo player. Would I benefit from buying the Oppo 105D and running multi channel out into my AV7701, or should I just buy the 103D and run HDMI out and let the AV7701 DAC do the processing. Basically, is it worth the extra $700ish for the DAC in the 105D to do the processing instead of the Marantz PreAmp. Any and all info is appreciated. Im supposed to buy the 103D tomorrow but I'll buy the 105D instead if it would benefit me.
Based on your specific needs mentioned, you'd be better off buying the 103D and just run HDMI audio to the 7701.
This is assuming your primary use for the player is watching movies.
If you are looking for superior stereo audio playback for 2CH music, then the 105D will likely be better for that.

FYI, Oppo is getting ready to release their first UHD player next month. Even if you aren't interested in UHD yet,
the specs should be in line with their previous model players, aside from the exclusion of the Darbee enhancement chip of the "D" models,
and it is rumored to be about the same price as their BDP-103 model.
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post #1984 of 2008 Old 11-13-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
Based on your specific needs mentioned, you'd be better off buying the 103D and just run HDMI audio to the 7701.
This is assuming your primary use for the player is watching movies.
If you are looking for superior stereo audio playback for 2CH music, then the 105D will likely be better for that.

FYI, Oppo is getting ready to release their first UHD player next month. Even if you aren't interested in UHD yet,
the specs should be in line with their previous model players, aside from the exclusion of the Darbee enhancement chip of the "D" models,
and it is rumored to be about the same price as their BDP-103 model.
Thanks for the quick reply. I am aware of the 203 coming out, however, I've been saving up for a while now and I wont have a 4K Projector for a while. So I'll just get one of the Darbee players to hold me off, and then hopefully maybe the 205 will have 11.2 multi channel out and I can upgrade to Atmos and get rid of my PreAmp completely. Who knows, wishful thinking. Thanks again for the reply, I think I'll just continue to buy the 103D tomorrow and start saving up for some more gear.
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post #1985 of 2008 Old 11-13-2016, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne404 View Post
Thanks for the quick reply. I am aware of the 203 coming out, however, I've been saving up for a while now and I wont have a 4K Projector for a while. So I'll just get one of the Darbee players to hold me off, and then hopefully maybe the 205 will have 11.2 multi channel out and I can upgrade to Atmos and get rid of my PreAmp completely. Who knows, wishful thinking. Thanks again for the reply, I think I'll just continue to buy the 103D tomorrow and start saving up for some more gear.
I'm in the same boat on that "wishful thinking" plane, but the odds are against us.
It really is more complicated than just adding 4 more analog output channels.
There are a plethora of setup options that must be incorporated in the player for up to 7.2.4 channel output.
It does encroach on what a preamp processor would be used for quite a bit, but not everyone needs 90% of what
such a processor has and again I'd love for Oppo to include that in a player at some point too.
Who knows when such an animal would be uncaged if ever, so your 103D solution should work nicely in the meantime.
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post #1986 of 2008 Old 11-13-2016, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
I'm in the same boat on that "wishful thinking" plane, but the odds are against us.
It really is more complicated than just adding 4 more analog output channels.
There are a plethora of setup options that must be incorporated in the player for up to 7.2.4 channel output.
It does encroach on what a preamp processor would be used for quite a bit, but not everyone needs 90% of what
such a processor has and again I'd love for Oppo to include that in a player at some point too.
Who knows when such an animal would be uncaged if ever, so your 103D solution should work nicely in the meantime.
Thanks again, I'm looking forward to an upgrade in quality vs my Xbox One that I'm running now. Theater should be complete soon.
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post #1987 of 2008 Old 11-13-2016, 08:28 PM
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^ Oooo, nice! I love the purple seats.
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post #1988 of 2008 Old 11-14-2016, 03:29 AM
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I connected a Mac Mini to the asynchronous USB port of an Oppo 105D. I'm using screen sharing to control the Mini with an iMac. The Mini appeared on the iMac screen running iTunes and Audirvana. I successfully played Time Out, but the audio level was very low although the quality seemed excellent. The Oppo is connected via HDMI-2 and XLR to a Bryston SP3. Any ideas why the level is so low and what I can do to cure the problem.

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post #1989 of 2008 Old 11-14-2016, 03:37 AM
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I forgot to mention that I set the input of the Oppo to USB audio, but is there anything else I need to set in the menu?
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post #1990 of 2008 Old 11-14-2016, 08:59 AM
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^ Umm, have you checked the Volume setting in the Mac Mini? (The Volume setting in the iMac isn't relevant.)

How about the Volume setting in the 105D? (That will only affect the XLR output, not the HDMI output.)
--Bob

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post #1991 of 2008 Old 11-14-2016, 01:48 PM
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Bob,

It turns out the low level audio I've been hearing is coming from the Mac Mini itself. The connection to the USB Audio port of the Oppo is not functioning even though I have USB Audio In selected. I played an SACD using the Oppo without any problem, so the problem seems isolated to the USB Audio Input or the 3' Audioquest Carbon cable. Are there other menu items I need to select? Any suggestions?

db
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post #1992 of 2008 Old 11-14-2016, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
Bob,

It turns out the low level audio I've been hearing is coming from the Mac Mini itself. The connection to the USB Audio port of the Oppo is not functioning even though I have USB Audio In selected. I played an SACD using the Oppo without any problem, so the problem seems isolated to the USB Audio Input or the 3' Audioquest Carbon cable. Are there other menu items I need to select? Any suggestions?

db
If you mean you are not getting ANY audio through the OPPO when you select the USB DAC Input in the OPPO, then you probably have not told the Mac Mini to use that connection for sound output.

In the Mac Mini (not the iMac you are using to control it) go to System Preferences > Sound > Output and you should see a line for the OPPO USB DAC. Select that and anything running on the Mac Mini which generates sound will now send that to the OPPO.

--------------------------

If you mean you ARE getting audio, but it is too low in volume, then, after selecting the OPPO USB DAC for output in the Mac Mini, as just described, try raising the Volume in the Mac Mini (again, not in the iMac).
--Bob

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post #1993 of 2008 Old 11-14-2016, 06:57 PM
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Thanks, Bob. That's the problem. But when I check System Preferences in the Mini the Oppo USB DAC is not listed. I consulted a local Mac tech who suggests it's most likely a bad cable. Tomorrow I'll buy a new cable and try again. I hadn't realized the Mini had an audio capability. Its level seems aimed at desk-top use.

I discovered I can use the iMac while the Mini is playing a music file, and switch between which computer I'm addressing with the click of the mouse. Neat stuff!

db
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post #1994 of 2008 Old 11-15-2016, 10:32 AM
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Bob,

The Mini has an HDMI port that I could connect directly to the Bryston SP3 rather than going through the Oppo 105D via its asynchronous USB port to the SP3. Would using the HDMI connection effect audio quality? In either case, HDMI from the Mini to the SP3 or HDMI from the Oppo to the SP3, I expect to use the SP3 DAC, assuming it's superior to the Oppo DAC. Of course, if I use the USB port of the Oppo, I have the option of using either the Oppo or SP3 DAC with XLR to the SP3 if the Oppo DAC.

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post #1995 of 2008 Old 11-15-2016, 02:21 PM
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Bob,

The Mini has an HDMI port that I could connect directly to the Bryston SP3 rather than going through the Oppo 105D via its asynchronous USB port to the SP3. Would using the HDMI connection effect audio quality? In either case, HDMI from the Mini to the SP3 or HDMI from the Oppo to the SP3, I expect to use the SP3 DAC, assuming it's superior to the Oppo DAC. Of course, if I use the USB port of the Oppo, I have the option of using either the Oppo or SP3 DAC with XLR to the SP3 if the Oppo DAC.

db
The USB DAC input has both advantages and limitations. The main advantage is that it has the most direct connection to the DAC in the player, and is thus capable of the best digital input possible into that DAC. It can also accept digital audio streams that you can not send over HDMI such as LPCM stereo higher than 192kHz, or higher rates of DSD digital audio.

The limitations are that you can only send stereo to the USB DAC and no audio processing is possible in the player since the connection is directly into the DAC. So all you get is Volume control -- no Crossover processing, no Down-mixing, no Speaker Distance adjustment. Nothing, just Volume.

A significant factor in how the USB DAC input sounds to you is how the software is set in the Mac to produce the audio output stream.

I don't know enough about the SP3 to offer any useful comments on which ought to sound better.
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post #1996 of 2008 Old 11-15-2016, 07:04 PM
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Bob,

The Bryston SP3 had an MSRP of $10K. According to Kal Rubinson in Stereophile it defines the audiophile processor.

I've replaced the USB cable and connected HDMI, yet only the internal speaker shows up in the audio output box and there is no sound with HDMI. I tried connecting the USB cable directly to the USB input of the SP3, but the SP3 display shows it's not receiving a signal. So I'm tending to conclude that external audio doesn't work with screen sharing or there is a problem with USB output from the Mini. I'm inclined to suspect the USB output of the Mini, because everything else works flawlessly in screen sharing mode and I can hear the Mini playing the music files through its internal speaker. Tomorrow I'll take the Mini to the Mac shop to check its USB ports.

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post #1997 of 2008 Old 11-16-2016, 08:25 AM
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Bob,

The Bryston SP3 had an MSRP of $10K. According to Kal Rubinson in Stereophile it defines the audiophile processor.

I've replaced the USB cable and connected HDMI, yet only the internal speaker shows up in the audio output box and there is no sound with HDMI. I tried connecting the USB cable directly to the USB input of the SP3, but the SP3 display shows it's not receiving a signal. So I'm tending to conclude that external audio doesn't work with screen sharing or there is a problem with USB output from the Mini. I'm inclined to suspect the USB output of the Mini, because everything else works flawlessly in screen sharing mode and I can hear the Mini playing the music files through its internal speaker. Tomorrow I'll take the Mini to the Mac shop to check its USB ports.

db
Let's go back to basics. The Asynchronous USB DAC Input is the square shaped socket on the back panel of the OPPO. If you are using one of the thin rectangular shaped USB sockets (2 on the back panel and 1 on the front) you are connecting to the wrong place. The cable you need has a thin rectangular USB A plug on one end (for the Mac) and a square shaped USB B plug at the other end (for the OPPO).

For the Mac to offer the OPPO as a choice in System Preferences > Sound > Output, the OPPO must bet powered up. The choice may be at the bottom of the list in the Mac, so be sure to check in case you have to scroll down. If you still don't see it, try power cycling the OPPO again.

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post #1998 of 2008 Old 11-16-2016, 12:15 PM
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The cable you need has a thin rectangular USB A plug on one end (for the Mac) and a square shaped USB B plug at the other end (for the OPPO).

For the Mac to offer the OPPO as a choice in System Preferences > Sound > Output, the OPPO must bet powered up. If you still don't see it, try power cycling the OPPO again.
--Bob
I'm connecting the cable you describe to the input of the Oppo you describe. Only Internal Speaker shows up in the Sound Output window. I haven't tried power cycling the Oppo while running System Preferences, and if by power cycling you mean unplugging from AC, I haven't done that at all. I'm wondering if USB from the Mini could be faulty, but I could try the power cycling before I take the Mini into the local Mac shop. I have tried resetting screen sharing between the Mini and the iMac to no avail. I've even thought of using the projector as a monitor for the Mini in case for some reason an external audio source is not possible with screen sharing, but that seems a too perverse path to follow.

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post #1999 of 2008 Old 11-16-2016, 02:37 PM
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Bob,

Before taking the Mini in to check out its USB, I connected a monitor directly to it rather than through screen sharing with the iMac, and ran System Preferences for Sound. When I connected the USB to the asynchronous USB port of the Oppo, the Oppo DAC immediately showed up in the selection window. I'm now playing a selection through the audio system using Audirvana. The sound is really excellent.

The downside of this success is that it appears I can't use the iMac screen sharing to control the Mini if I want to use an external sound source, and I haven't come up with a satisfactory location for the monitor needed to run the Mini direct.

Thanks for all your help. The ball's in my court now.

db
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post #2000 of 2008 Old 11-16-2016, 05:11 PM
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Bob,

It seems now that the Oppo has been selected for external audio using a monitor connected to the Mini, I can use screen sharing on the iMac to control playing files on the Mini. If this selection proves stable I can use the iMac screen rather than a separate monitor, and the problem is solved. If not, do you see a problem putting a monitor atop a Velodyne HGS-15, perhaps isolated with Herbie's dots?

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post #2001 of 2008 Old 11-16-2016, 06:43 PM
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If not, do you see a problem putting a monitor atop a Velodyne HGS-15, perhaps isolated with Herbie's dots?
I suspect that wouldn't be a problem. When I had my HGS-18, I didn't have any problems with things sitting on top of it moving around much. A monitor should have enough weight to stay put and I don't think you'd need to worry about vibrations damaging it.
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post #2002 of 2008 Old 11-17-2016, 07:01 AM
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Bob,

Before taking the Mini in to check out its USB, I connected a monitor directly to it rather than through screen sharing with the iMac, and ran System Preferences for Sound. When I connected the USB to the asynchronous USB port of the Oppo, the Oppo DAC immediately showed up in the selection window. I'm now playing a selection through the audio system using Audirvana. The sound is really excellent.

The downside of this success is that it appears I can't use the iMac screen sharing to control the Mini if I want to use an external sound source, and I haven't come up with a satisfactory location for the monitor needed to run the Mini direct.

Thanks for all your help. The ball's in my court now.

db
It sounds like the iMac is displaying its OWN System Preferences instead of the one for the Mini.

I've not tried doing this one Mac controls another Mac stuff, but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a Preferences setting which controls which System Preferences will display -- or some other trick you need to do to get the System Preferences of the Mini to display while controlling it from the iMac.
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post #2003 of 2008 Old 11-20-2016, 12:35 PM
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A couple of questions for Bob P if he would be so kind to answer.

I am currently demoing a Bryston Bda-3 Dac which allows an Oppo to send DSD via SACD via HDMI. However I am experiencing pops which looks quite clearly like momentary handshake losses on HDMI 2 on the Oppo.....if you check back HDMI 1 from the Oppo direct to a TV can cause audio drop outs I got round this by playing in pure audio obviously disconnecting the HDMI signal however in this case there is no way round it. I don't suppose Oppo are looking at this? Just to clarify from coax between the two machines it is flawless.

Second question the Audio Format Setup menu allows you to decide the bitrate the Oppo outputs to (Coaxial)...I have chosen 192khz and I have Blu Ray discs and downloads at 192khz but when they arrive at the Bryston they never are detected as anything higher than 48khz would I be right in guessing the Oppo can't actually output at 192 or am I missing something?

Be delighted if you could answer.
Thanks,
Ben
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post #2004 of 2008 Old 11-20-2016, 01:46 PM
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^ Second question first: The Optical / Coax LPCM output setting is a rate LIMIT, not an up-sample setting. So the actual output rate is the lower of the content rate and whatever you've set as that rate limit. The intent is to prevent sending signals to the outboard hardware at a higher rate than that hardware can handle.

Optical / Coax can handle LPCM Stereo output up to 192kHz 24-bit.

If your content is higher than 48kHz and the setting is 192kHz, but you are still getting limited to 48kHz then the two likely possibilities are that you are not playing the audio track you think you are playing, or that you have DTS Neo:6 Mode enabled. DTS Neo:6 has the side effect of limiting the digital audio path to either 48 or 41 kHz depending on the content.

----------------------------------------

For your HDMI 2 issue with DSD output, when are the pops happening? At track transitions or in the middle of tracks? And do you get he pops if you send LPCM to the DAC?

Try setting SACD Output to DSD (instead of AUTO). If that doesn't cure it, you'll need to talk to OPPO Tech Support with details of the DAC and what's happening.
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post #2005 of 2008 Old 11-21-2016, 08:35 AM
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^ Second question first: The Optical / Coax LPCM output setting is a rate LIMIT, not an up-sample setting. So the actual output rate is the lower of the content rate and whatever you've set as that rate limit. The intent is to prevent sending signals to the outboard hardware at a higher rate than that hardware can handle.

Optical / Coax can handle LPCM Stereo output up to 192kHz 24-bit.

If your content is higher than 48kHz and the setting is 192kHz, but you are still getting limited to 48kHz then the two likely possibilities are that you are not playing the audio track you think you are playing, or that you have DTS Neo:6 Mode enabled. DTS Neo:6 has the side effect of limiting the digital audio path to either 48 or 41 kHz depending on the content.

----------------------------------------

For your HDMI 2 issue with DSD output, when are the pops happening? At track transitions or in the middle of tracks? And do you get he pops if you send LPCM to the DAC?

Try setting SACD Output to DSD (instead of AUTO). If that doesn't cure it, you'll need to talk to OPPO Tech Support with details of the DAC and what's happening.
--Bob
Bob thank you you have solved one problem the DTS Neo 6 option was ticked so now have full sample rates coming out of the Oppo.You are a star.

What happens on SACD is very specific doesn't matter if DSD or auto is selected. When you start to play a disc the signal momentarily gets lost-the dac light goes red but instantly recovers-the whole disc/album will play normally and either when you manually stop the disc or it ends you again get a loss of signal but a louder pop.
I've contacted Oppo they said try a factory reset which hasn't solved the problem.

However here's the thing any other audio through HDMI does not give the same issue even a SACD disc asked to output PCM will work normally-so it's clearly something in the DSD signal.
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post #2006 of 2008 Old 11-21-2016, 09:13 AM
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^ Do you have another HDMI DSD source you can feed into that DAC? This is to see if the problem is in the DAC's handling of the start and end of HDMI DSD streams.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #2007 of 2008 Old 11-21-2016, 09:56 AM
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^ Do you have another HDMI DSD source you can feed into that DAC? This is to see if the problem is in the DAC's handling of the start and end of HDMI DSD streams.
--Bob
Bob I had an old Sony Blu Ray but it doesn't do HDMI audio.
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post #2008 of 2008 Old Yesterday, 11:12 AM
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Just an update I managed to get the latest Firmware on the BDA-3 which has taken away the loud pop (at the end of playing) which was the most annoying issue-there is still a slight loss of signal at the start of play and click but it is not so prominent. Bryston reckon another Firmware update is a few weeks away which should deal with this.

I have to say Bryston's customer support was absolutely top notch.
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