Disappointed in the Oppo BD-105 - Page 7 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 11:51 AM
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Whenever you criticize some one's purchase, they will rigorously defend it because they don't want to be made like fool who made a poor decision.


That being said, everyone buy a particular player for various reasons. The particular issue you raised, although true, not necessary a deal breaker for every one else. In fact, it seems most owners couldn't care less about this issue. There is no 100% perfect player out there. So, ppl just have to make do with certain shortcomings.
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post #182 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
Whenever you criticize some one's purchase, they will rigorously defend it because they don't want to be made like fool who made a poor decision.
Not very scientific. They shouldn't feel foolish. More like lied to since "Audiophile-Grade Fidelity" implies clean signal.

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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post
There is no 100% perfect player out there. So, ppl just have to make do with certain shortcomings.
The majority I believe, will be able to output an unclipped sub out signal. All I've been doing is exposing a serious shortcoming of the BDP-105.
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post #183 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 01:06 PM
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What I'm wondering is how many pages of this you are going to clutter up the thread with? You made your point about a dozen posts ago, and have been repeating it in one form or another since. How many people find an OCD discussion on using redirected bass of any use?
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post #184 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
How many people find an OCD discussion on using redirected bass of any use?
Maybe about one?
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post #185 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
How many people find an OCD discussion on using redirected bass of any use?
So let me get this straight...

I'm trying to inform people who might purchase an OPPO that there exists a problem with it that will send a CLIPPED signal out to their subwoofer and that is OCD and not useful information?!
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post #186 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 01:48 PM
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How many people pay $1300 for a player and expect a badly distorted signal from the SW output at any volume level?

About none.
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post #187 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
How many people pay $1300 for a player and expect a badly distorted signal from the SW output at any volume level?

About none.
A badly distorted signal from the SW output under one particular circumstance you've shown.

I ask again whether this occurs among multiple discs from multiple studios or just in this particular case; if it's just in the case it could be due to out of spec mastering on the disc.

When you say a 0 db LFE signal, is that what's encoded on the disc?

The LFE channel is supposed to be encoded -10 dB down as decoders are supposed to provide a +10 dB boost upon playback, so a true 0 dB LFE signal would be recorded -10 dB down, and a 0 db signal would be +10 dB on output, which seems wrong.

Once again, this is not an attack on you or your useful data, but rather an effort to better understand the data presented.
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post #188 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 02:04 PM
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Anyone mention that the browser/plugins/apps or whatever suck on the 103? You cant deactivate that page either i think...?

They are trying to be an appleTV or roku... I guess they are practicing.
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post #189 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 02:13 PM
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First of all to dispel the nonsense from the other posts, the vast majority of people listen to re-directed bass in their theaters.

The OPPO passes the LFE channel fine regardless of whether it is down 10dB or up to 0dB. The problem comes when the re-directed bass is added with it. We tested a dozen movies from different production houses in our collection that all showed the clipping problem with re-directed bass. Here is my OP:

Disappointed in the Oppo BD-105

I show 2 examples of movies with re-directed bass clipping on the sub out starting here. Besides, if it was a problem with the discs then the Panasonic player or the Sony AVR wouldn't pass the signal without clipping.
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post #190 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
Anyone mention that the browser/plugins/apps or whatever suck on the 103? You cant deactivate that page either i think...?

They are trying to be an appleTV or roku... I guess they are practicing.
Oppo players do not have a built in browser or plugins.
They do have some very useful apps, just like hundreds (thousands?) of other products on the market.
Not sure why you think they "suck", unless sucking just means that you don't use them, but a lot of other people do.
If you want more than the few apps they offer, then simply connect something like an AppleTV or Roku that you mention.

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post #191 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
A badly distorted signal from the SW output under one particular circumstance you've shown.

I ask again whether this occurs among multiple discs from multiple studios or just in this particular case; if it's just in the case it could be due to out of spec mastering on the disc.

When you say a 0 db LFE signal, is that what's encoded on the disc?

The LFE channel is supposed to be encoded -10 dB down as decoders are supposed to provide a +10 dB boost upon playback, so a true 0 dB LFE signal would be recorded -10 dB down, and a 0 db signal would be +10 dB on output, which seems wrong.

Once again, this is not an attack on you or your useful data, but rather an effort to better understand the data presented.
Most major brand players with MCH output will output LFE channel at -10db so that it can avoid the problem OPPO does. It is up to the outboard amps or receivers to raise 10 db on the LFE channel to match other channels. This way, they will not easily clip the LFE channel when certain discs that are authored with LFE in regular channels (there is no rules against it) and you set up to re-direct them to LFE channel. This is a quite common problem back in the days of DVD Audio and SACD because those music discs are often authored with full range in all channels.

It seems, from what I read here, that OPPO either didn't lower LFE output by 10db or did it too late (after DAC output).
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post #192 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
How many people pay $1300 for a player and expect a badly distorted signal from the SW output at any volume level?

About none.
Nobody is getting a distorted signal at any volume level, maybe you should look around a little. Your oddball use of redirected bass is definitely not typical. Also weird is that you buy a $1300 component and then don't use it or check it out for months.
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post #193 of 216 Unread 03-07-2015, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Your oddball use of redirected bass is definitely not typical.
Also weird is that you buy a $1300 component and then don't use it or check it out for months.
I have some electronic audio components for the last thirty years that I never checked all their features. And I'm not weird for that.

I also discovered faults on other audio/video components, like five to ten years after they were released, because no reviewers ever checked them before till an owner did many many years later. And they were simply manufacturer's mistakes, wrong implementations, for Dobly Surround, Dolby Digital, Bass Management, Crossover point for the Sub Out jack, etc., all sorts of stuff like that a la old THX and Dolby era.
Back then there were no firmware updates like today, so now they can fix their mistakes (not all of them).
...In those years we were stuck with the mistakes, no mistake about it.


Just sayin', some facts.
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post #194 of 216 Unread Yesterday, 05:20 AM
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Hi Shreds,




For M/C use.... most people would be connecting their OPPO's to AVR's or Pre/Pro's at HDMI level.


Your choices then seem pretty simple........


1. Sell OPPO

or

2. Buy a decent Pre/Pro..........hook up OPPO at HDMI level and avail yourself of Room EQ


You might even get BETTER sound.


Cheers,

John

Last edited by linger63; Yesterday at 06:25 AM.
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I own the BDP-105 and within the last two months of so - we have been having a very frustrating time with the built in Netflix app. Every bloody time we fire up the player to watch Netflix - the following error appears on screen:

Error: We're having trouble playing this title right now. Please try again later or select a different title

The only way to workaround this is to deauthorize the device and start over with Netflix user/PW info. This is incredibly annoying given your remote based entry system and I end up wasting 5 minutes everytime we want to watch something. Of course this whole "reauth" thing lasts just that session and as soon as we power down - the crap starts all over again.

Conversely - accessing Netflix on our iPads - I can not watch Netflix on my iPad for weeks on end and then log in when the mood strikes with no issues whatsoever.

Clearly the Netflix app on the 105 has fallen way behind in terms of currency because it's quickly becoming useless.

Would appreciate any ideas on exactly is wrong with this app on the Oppo. OR what is wrong at Netflix HQ - because this is getting close to becoming not worth paying for.

Cheers!

VP
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post #196 of 216 Unread Yesterday, 09:03 AM
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Vocalpoint, I find that I get that error message if I hit the Netflix button too soon after turning on the player. When I wait 15 seconds after getting the error and try again, it works fine. An alternative is to use another streaming device such as by inserting a Roku stick or ChromeCast into the 105 HDMI input.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Nobody is getting a distorted signal at any volume level , maybe you should look around a little.
I did and found this: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-tec.../0dbfs-blu-ray -Apparently OPPO has known about this problem with clipping for 5 years now.

Disappointed in the Oppo BD-105
-Maybe you will start to understand the problem if you re-read my 1st posts again. There are pictures to help you understand.

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Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Your oddball use of redirected bass is definitely not typical.
-I'm still waiting for you to explain what is unusual about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Also weird is that you buy a $1300 component and then don't use it or check it out for months.
If that is weird to you then I'm sure the day you unboxed yours you must have run through quite a number of tests on it. Why are you holding back your measurement results?
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post #198 of 216 Unread Yesterday, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I have some electronic audio components for the last thirty years that I never checked all their features. And I'm not weird for that.

I also discovered faults on other audio/video components, like five to ten years after they were released, because no reviewers ever checked them before till an owner did many many years later. And they were simply manufacturer's mistakes, wrong implementations, for Dobly Surround, Dolby Digital, Bass Management, Crossover point for the Sub Out jack, etc., all sorts of stuff like that a la old THX and Dolby era.
Back then there were no firmware updates like today, so now they can fix their mistakes (not all of them).
...In those years we were stuck with the mistakes, no mistake about it.


Just sayin', some facts.
Well here's one more. You, my friend, are not a typical consumer. For that matter, neither am I.


And Shreds, you're a YEAR in, man. I don't know ANYONE who'd buy a $1300 component, then leave it unused for a whole year. I'm sure it happens, but in those cases, you get what you get. The 30 day window is there for everyone, but if you're going to completely bypass it, then a year later start repeat calling Oppo to do something, you're out of luck, buddy.

Last edited by audio4life; Yesterday at 09:39 AM.
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Originally Posted by linger63 View Post
For M/C use.... most people would be connecting their OPPO's to AVR's or Pre/Pro's at HDMI level.
That would not take advantage of the ESS tech Sabre DAC so you might as well save yourself a ton of money and get a good player with mediocre DACs and analog section to send the digital out to the AVR.

I understand my options clearly, I'm just putting this information about the OPPO out to save somebody who hasn't yet made their purchase from being in my current situation. I appreciate the advice linger.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I have some electronic audio components for the last thirty years that I never checked all their features. And I'm not weird for that.

I also discovered faults on other audio/video components, like five to ten years after they were released, because no reviewers ever checked them before till an owner did many many years later. And they were simply manufacturer's mistakes, wrong implementations, for Dobly Surround, Dolby Digital, Bass Management, Crossover point for the Sub Out jack, etc.
I agree with you 100% North. Since when did it fall into the consumer's lap the task of testing and measuring if the product does what it is marketed to do? To make matters worse the majority of the companies that review products don't go through any testing at all, relying solely on listening tests and describing it's functionality. Things that most consumers themselves are capable of after reading the manual and hooking up the product.

Last edited by Shreds; Yesterday at 09:53 AM.
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you're out of luck, buddy.
Thanks A4L. Unfortunately unless you have lab grade equipment to measure with and the know how to use it and thoroughly test to see if the product is as advertised within 30 days of purchase, you are definitely going to eat a crap sandwich. At least when dealing with a company like OPPO's customer service anyway.

That is why I think it is important that this information about the clipping gets out there to as many people as possible so that they don't wind up in my situation.
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Originally Posted by Shreds View Post
I did and found this: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-tec.../0dbfs-blu-ray -Apparently OPPO has known about this problem with clipping for 5 years now.

Disappointed in the Oppo BD-105
-Maybe you will start to understand the problem if you re-read my 1st posts again. There are pictures to help you understand.
I may have some bad news for you. Here's Audioholics review of the Oppo 105. They also gave it "Product of the Year" in the blu-ray player category. They thought so much of this issue they found in 2010 that it didn't really figure into their analysis of the 105.

http://www.audioholics.com/blu-ray-a...s/oppo-bdp-105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
They thought so much of this issue they found in 2010 that it didn't really figure into their analysis of the 105.
The issue is with the summing of re-directed bass from the channels that are set to small combining with the LFE channel. They did not perform a test that re-creates real world conditions like source material does. Although I wish that this made the OPPO's problem with clipping the subwoofer out magically go away it does not.

I'm sure that if the problem would have been either found by them or brought up to them, they would've recorded it in their battery of tests and it would've affected their decision.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio4life View Post
Well here's one more. You, my friend, are not a typical consumer. For that matter, neither am I.


And Shreds, you're a YEAR in, man. I don't know ANYONE who'd buy a $1300 component, then leave it unused for a whole year.
I may be wrong, but my sense from reading all these posts is that he did use it, and his rants now are based on recent measurements rather than listening. Shreds, if you can really hear the problem, then I'm with the others and don't understand why you are ranting and raving now, a year later. And if you can't hear it, then IMO it doesn't really matter (nobody else, including professional reviewers and loads of users here on the forum, seem to hear it).

But enough already. IMO, much of the push back you are getting is due to the fact that you posted your disappointment (fine, you are certainly entitled to warn potential buyers of this issue), but now you're just rehashing it over and over again. You've made your point, and now it's time to move on.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post
I own the BDP-105 and within the last two months of so - we have been having a very frustrating time with the built in Netflix app. Every bloody time we fire up the player to watch Netflix - the following error appears on screen:

Error: We're having trouble playing this title right now. Please try again later or select a different title

The only way to workaround this is to deauthorize the device and start over with Netflix user/PW info. This is incredibly annoying given your remote based entry system and I end up wasting 5 minutes everytime we want to watch something. Of course this whole "reauth" thing lasts just that session and as soon as we power down - the crap starts all over again.

Conversely - accessing Netflix on our iPads - I can not watch Netflix on my iPad for weeks on end and then log in when the mood strikes with no issues whatsoever.

Clearly the Netflix app on the 105 has fallen way behind in terms of currency because it's quickly becoming useless.

Would appreciate any ideas on exactly is wrong with this app on the Oppo. OR what is wrong at Netflix HQ - because this is getting close to becoming not worth paying for.

Cheers!

VP
If the NF app were fubar, you'd have hundreds of complaints blanketing all the Oppo owner threads,
but instead there are none, and there are tons of people who use Netflix daily on the 10x players.
Even your own comment where you say...
"Conversely - accessing Netflix on our iPads - I can not watch Netflix on my iPad for weeks on end and then log in when the mood strikes with no issues whatsoever."
That is another clear indication your issue doesn't have anything to do with the player,
since the player isn't involved with how Netflix works on your iPad.
Also, I have personally just watched Netflix on my BDP-105D and on my iPad just yesterday with no issues.

It is obvious that your problem is either with your router/modem, cabling, ISP, etc... Perhaps your connection may be too slow?
Have you tried resetting the player back to factory default settings, or even installing/re-installing the latest
firmware version via USB method? Of course you shouldn't have to do that, but for the sake of troubleshooting the issue,
it may be a good idea to try. I'm pretty sure though, that your issue is happening elsewhere,
and your player is just receiving the bad signal with which it can't cope with.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
It is obvious that your problem is either with your router/modem, cabling, ISP, etc... Perhaps your connection may be too slow?
Have you tried resetting the player back to factory default settings, or even installing/re-installing the latestfirmware version via USB method? Of course you shouldn't have to do that, but for the sake of troubleshooting the issue, it may be a good idea to try. I'm pretty sure though, that your issue is happening elsewhere,
and your player is just receiving the bad signal with which it can't cope with.
I think this may be related to how I have the BDP-105 set to automatically go to the Netflix app - via my Logitech Touch remote. A month or two ago - I reworked the commands because I was tired of having to always manually select the Netflix app from the Oppo home screen - so I set up my Logitech remote to fire up Netflix at player startup.

I will bet that the network transport on the Oppo has not fully engaged and because of this - when I switch to the Netflix app so quickly - the app probably is having a fit trying to access the Netflix servers.

I am going to drop this direct to Netflix command and test that out.

Cheers!

VP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post
I think this may be related to how I have the BDP-105 set to automatically go to the Netflix app - via my Logitech Touch remote. A month or two ago - I reworked the commands because I was tired of having to always manually select the Netflix app from the Oppo home screen - so I set up my Logitech remote to fire up Netflix at player startup.

I will bet that the network transport on the Oppo has not fully engaged and because of this - when I switch to the Netflix app so quickly - the app probably is having a fit trying to access the Netflix servers.

I am going to drop this direct to Netflix command and test that out.

Cheers!

VP
Ohhhh, yes that could definitely be your issue then.
You should be able to also command a delay so that it doesn't try to engage NF so quickly upon startup.
If removing that current command does fix it, then maybe try the delay thing and see if that works for you.

~Dave

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JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post
I think this may be related to how I have the BDP-105 set to automatically go to the Netflix app - via my Logitech Touch remote. A month or two ago - I reworked the commands because I was tired of having to always manually select the Netflix app from the Oppo home screen - so I set up my Logitech remote to fire up Netflix at player startup.

I will bet that the network transport on the Oppo has not fully engaged and because of this - when I switch to the Netflix app so quickly - the app probably is having a fit trying to access the Netflix servers.

I am going to drop this direct to Netflix command and test that out.

Cheers!

VP
Most programmable remotes offer an option to include delays in the macro, that should help if you can increase the delay before the NF command.
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post #209 of 216 Unread Yesterday, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalpoint View Post
I think this may be related to how I have the BDP-105 set to automatically go to the Netflix app - via my Logitech Touch remote. A month or two ago - I reworked the commands because I was tired of having to always manually select the Netflix app from the Oppo home screen - so I set up my Logitech remote to fire up Netflix at player startup.

I will bet that the network transport on the Oppo has not fully engaged and because of this - when I switch to the Netflix app so quickly - the app probably is having a fit trying to access the Netflix servers.

I am going to drop this direct to Netflix command and test that out.

Cheers!

VP
You are correct. I usually give it a few seconds to have apps fully engage the network after the home menu come up, so I don't ever run into Netflix app not accessing its servers correctly. If you launch the Netflix app as soon as you bring up the home menu, it will usually not connect to a server, and present you with the retry dialog. Even if you retry, you might not have let the netflix app completely acquire server and buffered data. In these situations the GUI might not allow proper navigation sometimes. Best in that case to quit and just restart which always works.

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post #210 of 216 Unread Yesterday, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
You are correct. I usually give it a few seconds to have apps fully engage the network after the home menu come up, so I don't ever run into Netflix app not accessing its servers correctly. If you launch the Netflix app as soon as you bring up the home menu, it will usually not connect to a server, and present you with the retry dialog. Even if you retry, you might not have let the netflix app completely acquire server and buffered data. In these situations the GUI might not allow proper navigation sometimes. Best in that case to quit and just restart which always works.
This is interesting and useful, thank you. ...I'll make sure to rely this info to my friends, who in majority complain about Netflix.
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