Oppo BDP-103/105 Cue Files/Gapless playback support - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Blu-ray Players > Oppo BDP-103/105 Cue Files/Gapless playback support
Philnick's Avatar Philnick 11:03 AM 11-25-2013
As a visitor from the BDP-93 thread, I'm just wondering if the work on using .cue files to allow navigation within a single large gapless file will be ported to the 93/95 as well.

Before I knew that the current stage of implementation on the 10x series was limited to WAV files, I tried creating a .CUE file for a concert download from Concert Vault, which only offers mp3s, which I concatenate using MergeMP3.

My 93 (still on the last public firmware) didn't even show the cue file in the file list, which was in the same folder as the large concert file, so I gather the answer so far is "not yet."

-Phil

SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 11:18 AM 11-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

As a visitor from the BDP-93 thread, I'm just wondering if the work on using .cue files to allow navigation within a single large gapless file will be ported to the 93/95 as well.

Before I knew that the current stage of implementation on the 10x series was limited to WAV files, I tried creating a .CUE file for a concert download from Concert Vault, which only offers mp3s, which I concatenate using MergeMP3.

My 93 (still on the last public firmware) didn't even show the cue file in the file list, which was in the same folder as the large concert file, so I gather the answer so far is "not yet."

-Phil
Just-so-as-you-know.... Even on the BDP-103/105 .Cue files are only visible if they are accessed via SMB or USB. There is no support for them via UPnP.


Cheers
gsr's Avatar gsr 11:56 AM 11-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

As a visitor from the BDP-93 thread, I'm just wondering if the work on using .cue files to allow navigation within a single large gapless file will be ported to the 93/95 as well.
My best guess is that it's extremely unlikely that new features like this will be added to the 93/95 at this point.
Quote:
My 93 (still on the last public firmware) didn't even show the cue file in the file list, which was in the same folder as the large concert file, so I gather the answer so far is "not yet."
Regardless of whether support for a file format may be added in the future or not, the file browser should only show file types that are currently supported.
calpon's Avatar calpon 09:20 AM 11-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Just-so-as-you-know.... Even on the BDP-103/105 .Cue files are only visible if they are accessed via SMB or USB. There is no support for them via UPnP.


Cheers

Will .cue files ever be available via UPnP? I assume .flac will be supported in the near future.

All of my files are .flac on my computer in another room. The computer is connected via Cat6 cable. I run JRiver MC19 and use Gizmo as my remote on my Kindle Fire to control JRiver. I can run UPnP to either my Oppo 103 or to my Yamaha A3030....Currently running to my receiver.

I am not very technical....so I can't see why it is so hard for companies (not just Oppo) to have such a hard time with gapless playback when my squeezebox has been able to do this for many years.

My holy grail of digital playback:

--- Gapless playback of .flac through UPnP utilizing JRiver and Gizmo (automatic- no need for pushing a button to do this)
--- Support for 5.1 playback (I have several DVD-A that I have ripped)
--- Support for 96/24 or higher
chileboy's Avatar chileboy 07:51 AM 12-30-2013
The revision notes for the newest firmware state:
Quote:
1. Improved Gapless Playback performance and resolved several issues involving Gapless Player, such as the track title not getting refreshed in the Now Playing interface, and the player becoming unresponsive when trying to access a disc in the tray without stopping the currently ongoing Gapless Playback.

Does anyone know if any further files support was added, or is it still limited to WAV and APE files?

I'm also unclear about the direction of gapless support - sorry if this has been specifically addressed already. Is one of the goals of the gapless enhancement to simply play gapless, via SMB and hopefully UPnP, without the aid of CUE files? Or is it assumed that CUE files will always be needed?

Thanks,

- Mark
gsr's Avatar gsr 08:17 AM 12-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by chileboy View Post

The revision notes for the newest firmware state:
Does anyone know if any further files support was added, or is it still limited to WAV and APE files?
No new file types are supported yet.
Quote:
I'm also unclear about the direction of gapless support - sorry if this has been specifically addressed already. Is one of the goals of the gapless enhancement to simply play gapless, via SMB and hopefully UPnP, without the aid of CUE files? Or is it assumed that CUE files will always be needed?
The direction is to work out the kinks in the existing implementation and go from there rather than add support for SMB, DLNA, other file types etc. Where they'll end up with this isn't known at this point.
chileboy's Avatar chileboy 08:23 AM 12-30-2013
^ OK, thanks very much for the clarifications.
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 08:25 AM 12-30-2013
The new 1225B firmware has not been released for European Oppo owners yet... So I can't report anything frown.gif
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 05:24 AM 01-03-2014
Now that the new beta firmware has been release in Euroland I've been able to test gapless playback...

The test files I'm using are tracks 10 to 16 from the Beatles, Abbey Road album. All of which have been extracted into separate PCM.WAV files and re-encoded to Monkeys Audio.APE files (the only formats stated as being supported for 'gapless play'). The 7No PCM.WAV files and the 7No Monkeys Audio.APE files were placed within folders and loaded onto a NTFS formatted USB3 compatible 16GB pen-drive.

Playback of the PCM.WAV files revealed an approximate half second 'delay' between the tracks. Which is better than with firmware BDP10xEU-67-1204

Playback of the Monkeys Audio.APE files revealed an approximate half second 'cut' between the tracks. ie: the end of .APE file was chopped off!


Cheers
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 09:32 AM 01-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Now that the new beta firmware has been release in Euroland I've been able to test gapless playback...

The test files I'm using are tracks 10 to 16 from the Beatles, Abbey Road album. All of which have been extracted into separate PCM.WAV files and re-encoded to Monkeys Audio.APE files (the only formats stated as being supported for 'gapless play'). The 7No PCM.WAV files and the 7No Monkeys Audio.APE files were placed within folders and loaded onto a NTFS formatted USB3 compatible 16GB pen-drive.

Playback of the PCM.WAV files revealed an approximate half second 'delay' between the tracks. Which is better than with firmware BDP10xEU-67-1204

Playback of the Monkeys Audio.APE files revealed an approximate half second 'cut' between the tracks. ie: the end of .APE file was chopped off!


Cheers

That is disapointing, When the new beta firmware came out they did not respcify the file format compatibility so I thought it would work for DSD or Flac .
I emailed oppo and was told not only that pcm and ape are the only supported formats as well as the usb bit, but that if you fast forward/rewind that it negates the gapless command, Did yo let the track play through or did you fast forward to the end of the song to test the transition?
I will test this eveing with .wav or .ape files to confirm your findings as I am curious to see if they can get gaples working on .wav and .ape maybe we have a shot for other formats even if that means having a separate drive for music only connected to my oppo via USB as opposed to network playback. At this point I would take anything as long as it is consistent through delivery style and method and includes all formats not just .ape and .wav.
gsr's Avatar gsr 09:45 AM 01-03-2014
From the firmware release notes for the 1204 official release:
Quote:
Added an experimental "Gapless Playback" feature. Currently, this feature only works for WAV and APE music files, and can be enabled in the music file navigation interface by pressing the OPTION button and then selecting the "Gapless Playback" option. In Gapless Playback mode, you may use buttons like PAUSE, PLAY, STOP, NEXT and PREV, but not REV and FWD. This feature is still under development and may be improved in future firmware releases.

From the firmware release notes for the 1225B beta release:
Quote:
Improved Gapless Playback performance and resolved several issues involving Gapless Player, such as the track title not getting refreshed in the Now Playing interface, and the player becoming unresponsive when trying to access a disc in the tray without stopping the currently ongoing Gapless Playback.

There should be no expectation at this time for anything other than WAV and APE files to work for Gapless. When testing gapless, make sure to press the Option button and select the "Gapless Playback" option. Gapless support is experimental - a work in progress - so it shouldn't be expected to be working 100% reliably at this point. The intent is to get WAV and APE working well on local storage and go from there. Where they ultimately take this depends on what issues they run into, so don't set your expectations too high that all file types will be supported or that support for network playback (SMB and/or DLNA) will be possible as there may be some inherent hardware platform limitations that can't be overcome on this generation of player. If issues are noticed with what the firmware notes indicate should be working, then please pass that info on to Oppo.
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 10:03 AM 01-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

From the firmware release notes for the 1204 official release:
From the firmware release notes for the 1225B beta release:
There should be no expectation at this time for anything other than WAV and APE files to work for Gapless. When testing gapless, make sure to press the Option button and select the "Gapless Playback" option. Gapless support is experimental - a work in progress - so it shouldn't be expected to be working 100% reliably at this point. The intent is to get WAV and APE working well on local storage and go from there. Where they ultimately take this depends on what issues they run into, so don't set your expectations too high that all file types will be supported or that support for network playback (SMB and/or DLNA) will be possible as there may be some inherent hardware platform limitations that can't be overcome on this generation of player. If issues are noticed with what the firmware notes indicate should be working, then please pass that info on to Oppo.


I suppose it was the "improved gapless playback performance" that got my hopes up.

I don't want my post to be seen as negative, Its just besides the gapless playback part this machine really can do anything. I have already taken my HTPC out my main system. This oppo is leagues better as far as response and reliability than any set top media player and is far less cluncy than an HTPC . Just the fact that it can pass my dsd unmolested to my receiver is a miracle. I have spent the better part of a decade looking for something that will play every file format I have as well as all my hi rez discs. This oppo is getting pretty close. That and it looks really sweet in my ht cabinet.

I am confident that Oppo is doing everything they can to get this feature working.
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 11:32 AM 01-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

Did yo let the track play through or did you fast forward to the end of the song to test the transition?
I followed Oppo's instructions and let the tracks play through, without using the but REV and FWD buttons wink.gif
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 04:24 PM 01-03-2014
The usual confusion here is to forget you have to use the Options button to start the Gapless play at your desired starting track EACH TIME you want to use Gapless play.

If Gapless play is in effect, the on-screen Music play graphics will show "Gapless" above the time line.

If the next track is not identical in format to the current track (file type, channels, data rate) then you can't get a Gapless transition.
--Bob
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 09:35 PM 01-03-2014
I can confirm that gapless playback does in fact work with the new beta firmware 1225B with .wav file on my us 103 smile.gif
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 04:27 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

I can confirm that gapless playback does in fact work with the new beta firmware 1225B with .wav file on my us 103 smile.gif
What sample files did you use?
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 08:08 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

What sample files did you use?

It happened to be the Beatles Sgt. Pepper album in 24bit 44.1khz. stereo .wav converted from flac.
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 08:56 AM 01-04-2014
Only the first two tracks and the last three tracks on that album are gapless. All the others have natural gaps!

When you listen to the first track (which is 21,091KB for the 16-bit Redbook CD version) are you sure you can't hear a gap before the next track (which is 28,252KB for the 16-bit Redbook CD version)?

EDIT: What did you use to play them. An external HDD or a USB pen-drive?
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 09:09 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Only the first two tracks and the last three tracks on that album are gapless. All the others have natural gaps!

When you listen to the first track (which is 21,091KB) are you sure you can't hear a gap before the next track (which is 28,252KB)?

You are correct about the first two and the last three which is what I based my findings on. I dont know the file sizes off hand but if you mean between track 1 and 2, I heard no unnatural transition between. It definitely sounded gapless to me.

I will try to test different albums (multichannel, higher sample rates and albums that have more gapless material) just to make sure.
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 10:14 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

I will try to test different albums (multichannel, higher sample rates and albums that have more gapless material) just to make sure.
Can you try some Redbook (16-bit) CD back-ups? And I'll try some 24-bit PCM.wav files...
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 10:35 AM 01-04-2014
HiRez24,

If your 16-bit tests match mine I think between us we've solved a gapless issue. Because when I up-sampled my (previously mentioned Beatles, Abbey Road) 16-bit PCM.wav files to 24-bit, they played back perfectly 'gapless' biggrin.gif

Nice one... Who's going to inform Oppo and receive the glory?
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 11:01 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Can you try some Redbook (16-bit) CD back-ups? And I'll try some 24-bit PCM.wav files...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

HiRez24,

If your 16-bit tests match mine I think between us we've solved a gapless issue. Because when I up-sampled my (previously mentioned Beatles, Abbey Road) 16-bit PCM.wav files to 24-bit, they played back perfectly 'gapless' biggrin.gif

Nice one... Who's going to inform Oppo and receive the glory?

SMD,


I just fired up my George Harrison live in Japan in 16bit 44.1khz. My results were the same as with the 24bit files, perfect gapless playback no trace of a gap whatsoever.
I also tried 24/96 5.1 and it was good. 24/88.2 5.1 however played back at 44.1khz , dont know if it was a bug or an imperfect conversion I will have to investigate.


The files you are trying, were they already in .wav format or did you have to convert them? I used foobar2000 to convert all my files, perhaps if you are converting it has something to do with the software you are using to convert. If they were already in .wav what did you use to rip the cd?

Or the only other conclusion I can make is that the firmware version differs somehow between the US and EU versions.

Please note that I have not tried .Ape files as I do not know anything about that format.
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 11:40 AM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

The files you are trying, were they already in .wav format or did you have to convert them? I used foobar2000 to convert all my files, perhaps if you are converting it has something to do with the software you are using to convert. If they were already in .wav what did you use to rip the cd?
I ripped my Beatles, Abbey Road Redbook CD to individual PCM.wav using Windows Media Player, CUEripper and EAC. All three rippers generated files at the same length and file size. As a further cross-check I used WaveWizard to merge to the individual tracks to one continuous track to determine if the afore mentioned CD rippers created gaps, which none did.

I also used WaveWizard to up-sample the 16-bit PCM.wav files to 24-bit PCM.wav files, which played back gaplessly. So this further suggests that the 16-bit files are okay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

Please note that I have not tried .Ape files as I do not know anything about that format.
Monkeys Audio (Ape) is a lossless packed compression audio format, much the same as FLAC. It's pretty good, but personally I prefer FLAC.

Anyway, I've just used an audio encoding application called LameXP to generate some .APE files at 24-bits. But they behave much the same as the 16-bit files, ie: they 'cut' approximately half a second off the end of each track eek.gif
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 12:51 PM 01-04-2014
SMD,

You certainly were methodical in your testing, the onlly diference between us is that all my files were converted from either Flac or DSD. I doubt that has anything to do with it. Just out of curiosity how do you have the oppo connected to the Receiver/amp and which USB port are you using. I have HDMI out #2 of the Oppo (to preserve native DSD) connected to my Onkyo 809 and I am using the USB on the front of the unit.

Besides some obscure setting on the player I cant imagine why I can get 16bit .wav to play gapless and you cant. Have you contacted Oppo yet? If so what have they said?
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 01:48 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

Just out of curiosity how do you have the oppo connected to the Receiver/amp and which USB port are you using. I have HDMI out #2 of the Oppo (to preserve native DSD) connected to my Onkyo 809 and I am using the USB on the front of the unit.
I'm set-up the same as you wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez24 View Post

Besides some obscure setting on the player I cant imagine why I can get 16bit .wav to play gapless and you cant. Have you contacted Oppo yet? If so what have they said?
No, I've not contacted Oppo. In the meantime, if you are interested I can upload my 16-bit PCM.wav test files for you to try?
HiRez24's Avatar HiRez24 01:51 PM 01-04-2014
SMD,

I would be willing to give them a go. Just PM me with a link
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau 03:22 PM 01-04-2014
I test Gapless with full bit-rate WAV file rips of CDs done using the default software on my MAC -- and yes, that's 16-bit. No problems with Gapless.
--Bob
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 05:26 AM 01-05-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I test Gapless with full bit-rate WAV file rips of CDs done using the default software on my MAC -- and yes, that's 16-bit. No problems with Gapless.
--Bob
Due to the feedback and support from HiRez24 and reading Bob's post, I decided to check through my 16-bit PCM.wav file sources and discovered that the ones I was using were ripped using Windows Media Player and contain 'meta-data'!

Indeed when I played them again in the Oppo, I noticed that the audio player just stated 'Play' and not 'Gapless play' in the GUI - Which is very useful information to see. I wonder if Oppo could offer this level of info when playing 'CUE files'?

So that answers that... Bloody meta-data!
roger877's Avatar roger877 12:47 PM 01-29-2014
Ok, I got a bit excited about this latest thread regarding the "new" 105 beta f/w & gapless playback. So I fired up my NAS to listen to the first discs each of two seamless (natch) operas -- a Verdi & a Wagner...previously ripped to separate gapless flacs and now converted from Ape as well as Wave using dBPoweramp for this very special occasion. And sat back to _finally_ enjoy the lack of gaps.

*Cough, cough*. Via DLNA, the 105 DIDN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE the Monkeys Audio, wav files or even the file folders -- as usual. Until it dawned on me you guys were talking about gapless playback with usb --NOT streaming. Arghhhhh!!

This'll teach me to read sl-o-w-e-r and with more comprehension then expectation. eek.gif

So it's back to waiting for Oppo to solve this ugly, tedious blemish on an otherwise superb probuct.
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar SeeMoreDigital 01:16 PM 01-29-2014
Currently, the gapless playback feature only works via USB connected HDD's/pen-drives. And as mentioned above only PCM.wav files work correctly...

And as stated by Oppo. Gapless playback is still in the 'experimental' stage of development!
Tags: Oppo , Oppo Brand , Oppo Digital Inc Bdp 105 , Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player
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