Oppo BDP-103/105 Cue Files/Gapless playback support - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 232 Old 08-17-2015, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
Is gapless now working for network shares? Did I miss that development?
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I could have sworn it was working, but the Option button does nothing when selecting something to play via the Home -> Network path, so Gapless can't be selected. I don't use gapless very often...
Gapless via network shares is functioning on the Oppo 10x players "only" from the Media Control app.
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post #212 of 232 Old 08-18-2015, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
Gapless via network shares is functioning on the Oppo 10x players "only" from the Media Control app.
Thanks for the reminder @DanF8500 . For anyone else who doesn't remember, navigate to the song you want to start with in the Media Control app and then press and hold on the song. You'll get a popup with choices for Normal or Gapless play.
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post #213 of 232 Old 09-13-2015, 04:59 PM
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Another approach to gapless - with separate tracks and over a UPnP/DLNA network

There's an alternative to pasting all the tracks together, creating CUE sheets, and using SMB shares or directly attached drives. I've discovered that the free (or nearly) software I'd been using to play my music remotely over my phone will create and control gapless "OpenHome" renderers out of standard DLNA/UPnP renderers!

I'm a BDP-93 user who long ago gave up hope for gapless play other than by creating giant spliced-together files, losing the ability to know the name of the currently-playing track or navigate by track, since CUE file support will never come to the 93.

I particularly missed that since, I do have gapless play of the individual tracks on my phone through the parallel server I set up for remote access with my phone or laptop: the free foobar2000 with the equally-free foo_upnp plugin and the BubbleUPnP Server (which is reachable through the internet as well as working locally), and the BubbleUPnP Android client (all but foobar2000 written and maintained by the same guy, who goes by the name of bubbleguum, and all of it is free except the license for the android client, which costs under $5).

I recently bought a two-model-years-back Yamaha RX-A1030 AVR, which like the 93, does DLNA streaming but not gaplessly. Since Yamaha nowhere mentions its ability to work as a renderer, I was startled to see my new AVR pop up in the BubbleUPnP Server as an available Renderer (the feature that came in with the 103/105 Oppos) and that I could try to run it as an OpenHome renderer and tag that for gapless play.

Works like a charm! All I have to do on the Yamaha is go to its Server list, choose BubbleUPnP and click "Now playing." I can then use my phone to start play - or transfer play that I had started on another renderer, like my upstairs PC or my phone. I've reclaimed several gigabytes on my hard drive by deleting all my "gapless specials" - and no cue file is needed either, just a folder full of tracks!

A 103 or 105 should show up in the BubbleUPnP server as an available renderer the same way the Yamaha does, and be controllable from any number of wifi controller apps for Android and iOS:
(I've never played with any of the controllers other than the first and last in that list - both of which are first rate since they can act both as controllers and as renderers.)

The BubbleUPnP Server can be installed under Mac and Linux as well as Windows (the link to the BubbleUPnP Server I put a few paragraphs above is its documentation - with links to get it).

I'm not sure what you'd use as a UPnP server on other OSes, but I've got the foobar2000+foo_upnp working on my LAN through the BubbleUPnP Server under Windows. It works locally or remotely, and with any renderer. The Android app can be exited and play will continue. Turn it back on and it will update itself. The app's and the player's volume controls even track each other.

Other UPnP or DLNA servers running on the network will pop up on the Server tab to let you add them but may not work. (oShare can be problematic - it works with some renderers but not others, and can't even be browsed except on the LAN.)

With my Tinker-to-Evers-to-Chance* setup I have gapless play that I can transfer from renderer to renderer - from my PC to my phone to my theater - by pausing it before I leave one renderer and resuming it once I've get to the next and prime it to receive a stream.

You could do this with your 103 or 105 - and transfer play to it from your computer - or your phone for playback in your car.

Almost forgot to add one of my favorite perks in both foobar2000 and the Android BubbleUPnP app: a place to type in a search term, so you can find something that you've half-forgotten!

*Baseball reference: Tinker, Evers and Chance were a famous early 20th Century group of infielders responsible for many double-plays: a line drive to Tinker at shortstop would be thrown to Evers at second base to tag out the runner coming from first base, and then to Chance at first base to tag out the batter. The phrase has become part of the language. (Be sure to click on the tiny link at the end marked "quotations.")


Last edited by Philnick; 09-13-2015 at 08:04 PM.
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post #214 of 232 Old 09-14-2015, 01:18 PM
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PhilNick,

So you're saying that you can play gapless audio via DLNA to the 103/105 as a renderer with the BubbleUPnP Media server, without CUE sheets (just a sequence of audio tracks in a folder), utilizing an Android or iOS control point software app? Wondering if that server can be installed on a NAS?
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post #215 of 232 Old 09-14-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
PhilNick,

So you're saying that you can play gapless audio via DLNA to the 103/105 as a renderer with the BubbleUPnP Media server, without CUE sheets (just a sequence of audio tracks in a folder), utilizing an Android or iOS control point software app? Wondering if that server can be installed on a NAS?
Follow the link in my post for the BubbleUPnP Server, which is its documentation as well as the download links. (I've relinked to it in the preceding sentence) It runs on Windows, Linux, OS X and the Synology NAS and Qunap NAS.

It's a second-level server that needs a UPnP/DLNA library server to manage the files - I use the foo_upnp plugin for foobar2000 (Windows only), but it can work with others like Twonky, I believe. You'll see all your running DLNA and UPnP servers on its Servers page, and you can tell it to make each of them available over the net and / or to create an enhanced proxy for it on the LAN. (I've found it makes an oShare proxy available on the LAN but doesn't let oShare work remotely.)

The BubbleUPnP Server's first piece of magic comes in its ability to create a second "OpenHome" version of an existing renderer, and to feed that gaplessly by reading ahead.

Its second piece of magic is that it can be reached from a control point either on its LAN or remotely over the net - and can send the music either way as well.

The Android controller can play the music through the Android's sound circuits over the net, as well as - while on the LAN by WiFi - it can direct it to the Oppo's "OpenHome" doppelganger for gapless play. (You'll see two entries on the renderer list for the Oppo in the Android BubbleUPnP app, with [OpenHome] at the end of the name of one of them.)

That documentation page has screenshots so you can see how it's set up. You get to them through your browser, by the way.
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post #216 of 232 Old 09-16-2015, 08:15 AM
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I think I might be missing something here.

I've been using a stripped down, dedicated laptop running JRiver 19 for the past couple of years into a Schiit Bifrost, which of course worked great, but ultimately I wanted to get the laptop out of the system and clean things up, so I bought a Marantz NA6005 and moved the laptop to another room. I then decided to get the Sony PS3 out of the system which meant I needed a new blu-ray player, which this is where the 105D comes in.

I had an old 1TB Buffalo NAS (about 8 years old) that I just upgraded to a new Synology DS215j with dual WD Red 3TB drives. Wanting to further remove the laptop from the equation, I installed MinimServer on it as well as BubbleUPnP, and installed the LUMIN app on my iPad Mini 2. All of my music has either been ripped in JRiver or downloaded from HD Tracks. Everything works flawlessly except for not having gapless on the 105D. Since more than half of my 500+ albums are classical, live and jazz recordings, not having gapless ability kind of sucks.

Philnick... I've read both of your posts above several times, but I think I'm still missing something somewhere. I'm running my system just as I said above, but in BubbleUPnP it shows the 105D "Gapless" option grayed out, not being able to select it. I'm assuming that's what you're referring to in your posts.

You mentioned something about a parallel server, but not quite sure what you mean by that. Is there something else I have to install and run in order to get gapless working in my setup?

Any help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

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post #217 of 232 Old 09-16-2015, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post
I think I might be missing something here.

. . .

Philnick... I've read both of your posts above several times, but I think I'm still missing something somewhere. I'm running my system just as I said above, but in BubbleUPnP it shows the 105D "Gapless" option grayed out, not being able to select it. I'm assuming that's what you're referring to in your posts.

You mentioned something about a parallel server, but not quite sure what you mean by that. Is there something else I have to install and run in order to get gapless working in my setup?

Any help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
That is what I'm referring to. I only have a 93, so I can't test this out with a newer Oppo, but I find it unbelievable that my RX-A1030 AV Receiver - which Yamaha doesn't even call a renderer - can run gaplessly as an OpenHome renderer, while Oppo's top of the line player, which advertises both gapless DLNA play and the ability to do rendering, can't! That's something to yell at Oppo about.

I guess I have to apologize to all the 103/105 users I told about this - until Oppo allows gapless rendering, I guess it's back to making the composite files - or using an AVR that can do it. I just got lucky! I bought the AVR I did because it has a Sabre DAC in the same family as the BDP-xx5 series. and because I could get it new fairly inexpensively at Amazon because it's two models back from the current RX-Ax050 series. The only thing my Yamaha can't do is play videos or multichannel music over UPnP/DLNA - I still use my 93 to play those.

You also asked about the parallel server I'm using (I use oShare for DLNA / UPnP access by my 93):

The parallel server is foobar2000 with the foo_upnp UPnP/DLNA server plugin, which I set up for remote play over the net. That feeds into BubbleUPnP Server for internet access either by a remote copy of the foobar2000/foo_upnp plugin combo or by the BubbleUPnP Android app. I'm using the Android app as the controller (on WiFi) to push music to the Yamaha, with this combo of programs serving as the server.

But if BubbleUPnP Server shows gapless play as greyed out on the 105, this probably won't work for your 105 regardless of what library server is attached to it.
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post #218 of 232 Old 09-16-2015, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
That is what I'm referring to. I only have a 93, so I can't test this out with a newer Oppo, but I find it unbelievable that my RX-A1030 AV Receiver - which Yamaha doesn't even call a renderer - can run gaplessly as an OpenHome renderer, while Oppo's top of the line player, which advertises both gapless DLNA play and the ability to do rendering, can't! That's something to yell at Oppo about.
. . .
Went back into BubbleUPnP Server and experimented a bit.

I noticed that you can't check "Gapless" right off.

First you have to check "Create an OpenHome renderer" and BubbleUPnP Server puts up a popup saying that it has created a new renderer by the name of "[Device Name](OpenHome)" on the network.

You dismiss that by clicking on its OK button.

Then the Gapless option becomes available for that OpenHome renderer.

Anamorphic:

Please post again saying whether you've tried what I'm talking about in this post and whether it made the Gapless box available to check - and if so, whether it worked!

If you created an OpenHome version of the Oppo renderer and Gapless is still greyed out, it's time to complain to Oppo.
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post #219 of 232 Old 09-16-2015, 12:54 PM
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^ I think it would be simpler to just ask Oppo whether their 10x players support gapless playback via DLNA. I've heard multiple times over the years that they don't support gapless via DLNA. That's why I had questioned you about this feature above a couple days ago. I was hoping that you had found a back-door solution to this.

In reading the pdf from the link you provided above, with regards to an OpenHome renderer, it says that gapless playback is supported only when the underlying UPnP AV renderer supports it.
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post #220 of 232 Old 09-16-2015, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Philnick View Post
Went back into BubbleUPnP Server and experimented a bit.

I noticed that you can't check "Gapless" right off.

First you have to check "Create an OpenHome renderer" and BubbleUPnP Server puts up a popup saying that it has created a new renderer by the name of "[Device Name](OpenHome)" on the network.

You dismiss that by clicking on its OK button.

Then the Gapless option becomes available for that OpenHome renderer.

Anamorphic:

Please post again saying whether you've tried what I'm talking about in this post and whether it made the Gapless box available to check - and if so, whether it worked!

If you created an OpenHome version of the Oppo renderer and Gapless is still greyed out, it's time to complain to Oppo.

In order for me to control the 105D with the LUMIN app, I had to check "Create an OpenHome renderer" to begin with. Wanting to use the LUMIN app was the whole point of installing BubbleUPnP as that's the only way to control the Oppo with it. So unfortunately, it looks like the 105D simply isn't capable of gapless at the moment.

What's stupid is that the Marantz NA6005 which costs half as much as the 105D plays both FLAC and DSD64 perfectly fine over the network and gapless. Go figure.

Thanks for the help though. At least I know I've done everything I could to possibly get things going gapless. It's just the 105D, not me or my gear upstream.

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post #221 of 232 Old 09-22-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Anamorphic View Post
In order for me to control the 105D with the LUMIN app, I had to check "Create an OpenHome renderer" to begin with. Wanting to use the LUMIN app was the whole point of installing BubbleUPnP as that's the only way to control the Oppo with it. So unfortunately, it looks like the 105D simply isn't capable of gapless at the moment.

What's stupid is that the Marantz NA6005 which costs half as much as the 105D plays both FLAC and DSD64 perfectly fine over the network and gapless. Go figure.

Thanks for the help though. At least I know I've done everything I could to possibly get things going gapless. It's just the 105D, not me or my gear upstream.
I've tried everything in terms of streaming software for my Oppo 105 to play DLNA gapless flacs with no luck. The only "solution" is to copy the desired files containing live concerts, operas, gapless albums, etc. to a flash drive in which case the 105 plays them correctly, even reads que sheets. I've called and asked them a number of times if we might hope for a firmware fix for this but the answer is always the same: "it's in the hardware'. Pretty neat for a $1200 blu ray player, huh?
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post #222 of 232 Old 09-30-2015, 07:28 AM
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I've called and asked them a number of times if we might hope for a firmware fix for this but the answer is always the same: "it's in the hardware'. Pretty neat for a $1200 blu ray player, huh?
Same. Periodically I check back here for a firmware update (beta or otherwise) that will remedy this...the release notes always say "Improved gapless support" in some regard, but never a DLNA implementation. It does seem pretty crazy when an Android phone can do it with a virtually free app, and in fact I had an HP PocketPC (remember those?) back in the mid-2000's that supported gapless.

So I've essentially given up. I figure at some point I'll be buying an Oppo 113, or 115 - for 8K support or whatever! - and hopefully it will work out of the box.

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post #223 of 232 Old 09-30-2015, 04:35 PM
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I think that before we unload on OPPO we need to understand that the 103 and 105 are based on an SOC and the functionality is limited by the chip design and firmware from the chip manufacturer.

OPPO has been able to overcome some of these limitations with creative firmware updates others are unobtanium with the current chip design.
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post #224 of 232 Old 09-30-2015, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RDHolmes View Post
I think that before we unload on OPPO we need to understand that the 103 and 105 are based on an SOC and the functionality is limited by the chip design and firmware from the chip manufacturer.

OPPO has been able to overcome some of these limitations with creative firmware updates others are unobtanium with the current chip design.
Agreed - and I really don't believe in unloading on anyone.

That being said, unless the network streaming code is in the chipset, as opposed to the file-system-based "streaming" (not really streaming - but it is all bits) being not in the chipset, I would say that this is not a chipset issue. If a filesystem-based access method can be handled in firmware on the player, then so can a DLNA-based access method. They just ain't all that different. Put a flamin' dejitter buffer on the network side and then "pretend" that the network feed is a file and use the same methods feeding bits from the network dejitter buffer that you use with the filesystem buffer.

Here's hoping they get that round tuit thingy.

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post #225 of 232 Old 10-05-2015, 12:02 PM
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I'm not really "unloading" on Oppo - I think they're aces and have never regretted my purchase, and I'm 100% sure my next player will have their logo as well. And I understand too that it's first and foremost a Blu-ray player, and the streaming audio stuff, etc., is merely icing on the cake. But I suspect the majority of resources are invested in the Bu-ray side of the equation, rather than solving an issue that I'm guessing a relatively small percentage of users are asking for.

It's just kind of frustrating, that's all. It's "this close" to being nearly perfect for me.
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post #226 of 232 Old 01-16-2016, 09:52 AM
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BDP-103 Cue File bug

Hi:

I might have posted on this some time ago, but thought I would try again.

I am getting inconsistent results when playing audio (flac) via cue file. I do not always wish to play from the beginning so I would select the track from which I would like to listen to. Usually, the music starts three or four seconds into the track instead of from the beginning of the track. Only once in a while will the track cue correctly. This is very annoying.

I would appreciate hearing from other users who play from cue files. Are you also experiencing this glitch and is there some way to overcome it?

Thank you.

captnvideo

Additional Information:

I experimented by converting the FLAC Image to WAV and edited the File Name in the Cue. Now all tracks cue up as they should. So the problem appears to be with FLAC, not WAV.

Added 01/23/16: I sent OPPO the cue file and FLAC image and they were able to replicate the problem I described. Their engineers are now aware of this and will try to work on a future upgrade fix.

Last edited by captnvideo; 01-23-2016 at 12:01 PM. Reason: additional information
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post #227 of 232 Old 01-17-2016, 09:22 AM
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How can I check .flac files for errors? I've been frustrated that the gapless playback on the HEALTH Death Magic album from HD Tracks malfunctions and starts to stutter. Correspondence with Oppo support has ended with this response from them:

Quote:
The last frame of the first track” 01-VICTIM.flac” is incomplete . In normal play mode, the player could reboot the DSP to prevent the error frame affecting the playback of other tracks. But in gapless playback mode, it is not allowed to reboot the DSP which will cause the “skipping” you noticed when playing the second track.
HD Tracks insists that the file is intact and correct. When I run the flac command line process with -t it also reports that the file is 'ok'.

Are there other tools or software I can use to verify for certain whether what Oppo reports is correct and there is indeed an incomplete frame?
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post #228 of 232 Old 01-23-2016, 12:09 PM
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Cue File + Image: Please tell me what is the correct folder structure

Hi:

I have always placed the cue file and its associated image (FLAC or WAV) in a single folder. However, intermittently, when playback finishes from the cue file, audio does not stop but begins all over again from the image file. It does not matter whether the cue file is first or last in the folder.

Is there something wrong with the way I have structured playing audio via cue files?

For those of you who do not experience the glitch I have described, please let me know how you have created folders containing cue files.

Thank you.

captnvideo
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post #229 of 232 Old 01-28-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KrisRoberts View Post
How can I check .flac files for errors? I've been frustrated that the gapless playback on the HEALTH Death Magic album from HD Tracks malfunctions and starts to stutter. Correspondence with Oppo support has ended with this response from them:



HD Tracks insists that the file is intact and correct. When I run the flac command line process with -t it also reports that the file is 'ok'.

Are there other tools or software I can use to verify for certain whether what Oppo reports is correct and there is indeed an incomplete frame?
Try converting the flac files to wave via foobar. If there is any corruption in the FLAC files, foobar will show an error message for the affected tracks.
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post #230 of 232 Old 03-15-2016, 11:03 AM
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Intermittent Glitch when playing WAV or FLAC from Cue file

Hi:

I posted about this a while ago but am reaching out again with the hope that someone has also experienced the following glitch:

When playback reaches the end, instead of stopping with the last track, sometimes playback begins all over again from the actual FLAC or WAV. This is a completely random occurrence since every cue file I have is set up the same way with:

REM GENRE
PERFORMER
TITLE
FILE

followed by each track:

TITLE
PERFORMER
INDEX 01

Has any Oppo BPD-103 user experienced this random glitch?

captnvideo
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post #231 of 232 Old 03-15-2016, 05:11 PM
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I must admit that this has happened to me to... but with not all my music files and with not all flavours (ie: flac/wav) and/or bit-rate/depths of files.

Some time ago within this topic I posted various issues concerning the playback of lossless pcm.wav contained files, most of which have been rectified. However, the 'perfect' playback of lossless flac contained files has proved more difficult to nail down....

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post #232 of 232 Old 03-21-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
I must admit that this has happened to me to... but with not all my music files and with not all flavours (ie: flac/wav) and/or bit-rate/depths of files.

Some time ago within this topic I posted various issues concerning the playback of lossless pcm.wav contained files, most of which have been rectified. However, the 'perfect' playback of lossless flac contained files has proved more difficult to nail down....
Like I said this has appeared to be a random glitch which does not always happen.

However, I recently googled about this and found that at one time, it was recommended to adopt a naming convention for cue sheets and their associated flacs (or wavs) like this:

prefix.wav
prefix.wav.cue

prefix.flac
prefix.flac.cue

After adopting this convention, I must have played at least 8 albums via their cue sheets and none of them began to repeat from the beginning after the last track in the cue finished.

So maybe I am on to something.

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