Oppo BDP-103/105 Cue Files/Gapless playback support - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 164 Old 04-05-2013, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anybody been able to get a cue file to work with the new beta firmware ? I have tried and the Oppo keeps telling me 'Invalid or Unsupported Cue File" Also has anybody been able to use a cue file that involves more than one wav or flac file ? If anybody could post a cue file that is known to work that I can use as a template it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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post #2 of 164 Old 04-05-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Att: admins, could somebody please move this to the BDP-105 owners thread, that is where I meant to post it. Thanks

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post #3 of 164 Old 04-10-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon-XZ71 View Post

Has anybody been able to get a cue file to work with the new beta firmware ?
Yes...

For a few days now I've been re-encoding or re-muxing some of my CD's back-ups that contained gap-less sections (not all do of-course). And I'm delighted to confirm that play back on the Oppo has been perfect.

First: Your (PCM).WAV, .FLAC or .MP3 files have to be ripped as one continuous audio stream/track, ie: not split into individual audio tracks.

Second: Your .Cue files have to be written in a compliant way. Like this for example: -
Code:
PERFORMER "Beatles"
TITLE "Abbey Road"
REM DATE 1969
REM GENRE Rock
FILE "Abbey Road.flac" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Come Together"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Something"
    INDEX 01 04:19:71
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Maxwell's Silver Hammer"
    INDEX 01 07:22:18
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Oh! Darling"
    INDEX 01 10:50:12
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Octopus's Garden"
    INDEX 01 14:17:30
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "I Want You (She's So Heavy)"
    INDEX 01 17:08:09
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Here Comes the Sun"
    INDEX 01 24:55:33
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Because"
    INDEX 01 28:01:13
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "You Never Give Me Your Money"
    INDEX 01 30:46:63
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Sun King"
    INDEX 01 34:49:61
  TRACK 11 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Mean Mr. Mustard"
    INDEX 01 37:16:06
  TRACK 12 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Polythene Pam"
    INDEX 01 38:22:46
  TRACK 13 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "She Came in Through the Bathroom Window"
    INDEX 01 39:35:19
  TRACK 14 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Golden Slumbers"
    INDEX 01 41:33:66
  TRACK 15 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Carry That Weight"
    INDEX 01 43:05:48
  TRACK 16 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "The End"
    INDEX 01 44:42:08
  TRACK 17 AUDIO
    PERFORMER "Beatles"
    TITLE "Her Majesty"
    INDEX 01 47:03:54

In my tests I have discovered that audio CD back-ups generated with Exact Audio Copy (EAC) are not Oppo compliant. So I have been using the following Windows O/S audio CD encoding application: -

CUETools_2.1.4 - Which offers two applications, CUETools and CUERipper...

With "CUETools" you can re-mux your individual tracks into one continuous audio stream/track. It can also pull meta-data and add album art. Which is really handy

Sadly, I can't help any of you Mac O/S users as I've no idea what 'compliant' encoding applications are available...


Cheers all

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post #4 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 01:30 AM
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With regard to the Oppo supporting individual tracks. I tried all the Cue sheets generated by Exact Audio Copy and creating my own but I've not been able to find a way of making them work.

If somebody can find a way, please let me know...

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post #5 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 02:34 PM
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I don't own a 103/105 yet, I've been waiting to hear more about cue file support with the beta firmware. It's encouraging to hear it's working, but discouraging the EAC cue sheets aren't compliant. I've already ripped most of my gapless albums as single continuous flac files with cue sheets using EAC. I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, they look like the example above. The cue files can be easily edited with a file editor such as Notepad if I could figure out what makes EAC cue sheets noncompliant. Worst case, I'm assuming I could re-rip the CDs again and create 'compliant' cue sheets using CueRipper.

Anyone try using the Cuesheet Creator plugin with Foobar to create a cue sheet from individual tracks? I have no idea if this would result in a 'compliant' cue sheet or would work with the 103/105.

I'd also like to find a way to create cue sheets for multichannel flac files ripped from DVD-As using DVD Audio Extractor that would play on the 103/105.
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post #6 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 02:46 PM
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Here's an example cue sheet created from EAC:
Code:
REM GENRE Rock
REM DATE 2003
REM DISCID 810A120A
REM COMMENT "ExactAudioCopy v0.99pb5"
PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
TITLE "The Dark Side Of The Moon"
FILE "Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon.flac" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
    TITLE "Speak To Me"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 00:00:00
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
    TITLE "Breathe"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 01:08:26
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
    TITLE "On The Run"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 03:57:05
  TRACK 04 AUDIO
    TITLE "Time"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 07:47:50
  TRACK 05 AUDIO
    TITLE "The Great Gig In The Sky"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 14:37:20
  TRACK 06 AUDIO
    TITLE "Money"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 19:21:30
  TRACK 07 AUDIO
    TITLE "Us & Them"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 25:44:11
  TRACK 08 AUDIO
    TITLE "Any Colour You Like"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 33:34:00
  TRACK 09 AUDIO
    TITLE "Brain Damage"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 37:00:16
  TRACK 10 AUDIO
    TITLE "Eclipse"
    PERFORMER "Pink Floyd"
    INDEX 01 40:47:11

I now see the differences, which involve changing a few lines in the header and switching the order of the "Title" and "Performer" lines for each track. I would think some simple editing could fix this. It would be great to have some type of batch editing set up to do this.
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post #7 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Here's an example cue sheet created from EAC:

I now see now the differences, which involve changing a few lines in the header and switching the order of the "Title" and "Performer" lines for each track. I would think some simple editing could fix this. It would be great to have some type of batch editing set up to do this.
I'd suggest sending Oppo some feedback as it ought to be possible for them to get cue sheets to work if the fields are in a different order. While you're at it, it wouldn't hurt to ask about support for individual track files.
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post #8 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I'd suggest sending Oppo some feedback as it ought to be possible for them to get cue sheets to work if the fields are in a different order.

Good point, it would be ideal especially considering how popular EAC is for ripping CDs and creating cue sheets.


Quote:
While you're at it, it wouldn't hurt to ask about support for individual track files.

A cue sheet with individual tracks is really just like a playlist, and I'm wondering if the Oppo would be still be able play these individual tracks without gaps even if it could play directly from the cue file. Wouldn't hurt to inquire though.
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post #9 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info about CUE files. I was finally able to get a cue file to work with the Oppo 105. It used 1 large wav file in 2 ch. and it worked great. I then used the file as a template to create a cue file for my multi-channel hi-rez wav files of Dark Side Of The Moon. I have to have this in multiple files as the wav file exceeds 4gb (Size Limitation for WAV Format) I tried the cue file and once again the Oppo refused to play it. It would appear that the Oppo can not play a cue file that references more than one wav file. (although this cue file works with various software players on a pc) It looks as if I will never get to store my Multi-Channel files on a hard drive or memory stick and play them gapless. I hope Oppo can come with a better solution than CUE Files.

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post #10 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon-XZ71 View Post

Thanks for all the info about CUE files. I was finally able to get a cue file to work with the Oppo 105. It used 1 large wav file in 2 ch. and it worked great. I then used the file as a template to create a cue file for my multi-channel hi-rez wav files of Dark Side Of The Moon. I have to have this in multiple files as the wav file exceeds 4gb (Size Limitation for WAV Format) I tried the cue file and once again the Oppo refused to play it. It would appear that the Oppo can not play a cue file that references more than one wav file. (although this cue file works with various software players on a pc) It looks as if I will never get to store my Multi-Channel files on a hard drive or memory stick and play them gapless. I hope Oppo can come with a better solution than CUE Files.

Could you not convert the single continuous WAV file to FLAC and then use your cue file? I'm also looking for a way to play hi-rez MCH files gaplessly on the Oppo, but I don't believe there is a size limitation for FLAC files.
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post #11 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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FLAC has a 2.0 GB file size limitation, the FLAC File I Made is 2.25 GB. There is no way to even make a single Multi-Channel Hi-Rez WAV or FLAC file, because when it gets to the file size limitation it truncates the end of the file and many times corrupts the file. Since the Oppo 105 will not play a CUE File that addresses more than one FLAC or WAV File, I think I am out of solutions for gapless playback. I will just have to get the discs out each time I want to listen to them unless OPPO comes out with a better solution. I use J-River Media Center to pass all my 2 Channel audio files, but J-River has no support for Multi Channel Files.

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post #12 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 08:58 PM
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FLAC 1.2.1_mod4 gets around the 2 GB limit. I believe it will handle up to 4 GB. You can search for it, or PM me and I can get it for you.

For MCH file playback, you should try Foobar. It will play MCH FLAC or WAV files and has gapless playback with or without cue files on a pc. You can also stream MCH files to the Oppo with Foobar via DLNA. You won't have gapless playback streaming individual track files to the Oppo, although you can stream them gaplessly with a single continuous file.
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post #13 of 164 Old 04-11-2013, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
For MCH file playback, you should try Foobar. It will play MCH FLAC or WAV files and has gapless playback with or without cue files on a pc. You can also stream MCH files to the Oppo with Foobar via DLNA. You won't have gapless playback streaming individual track files to the Oppo, although you can stream them gaplessly with a single continuous file.

Gapless playback is what I am trying to achieve. I have tried Foobar on my Music Server, the problem with that is the OPPO 105 does not support Multi-Channel via it's USB, Optical or Digital Coax inputs, It just does it from HDMI, from a USB Stick/Hard Drive and via the Network, The last two will not support gapless and my Media Server PC does not have a HDMI Output, just USB & Digital Coax. My only hope is to use a large single file with a CUE File. Dark Side Of The Moon comes in at about 4.19 GB WAV and 2.56 GB FLAC. Listening to Dark Side Of The Moon, Classical Music and Live Material is not very enjoyable with gaps.

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post #14 of 164 Old 04-12-2013, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I'd suggest sending Oppo some feedback as it ought to be possible for them to get cue sheets to work if the fields are in a different order.
I've just checked... They already are supported wink.gif


EDIT: With regard to supporting individual tracks...

I tried all the Cue sheets generated by Exact Audio Copy and creating my own but none of them worked with the Oppo, although they worked okay with VLC media player v2.0.5.

I have also tried the EasyCUE application recommended by Oppo Customer Services but none of their Cue files worked with the Oppo or with VLC. And as a further check I tried different text file formats, ie: ANSI, UTF-8, Unicode, etc

If Oppo have managed to play individual tracks work, I wonder if they could supply us with an example of a working Cue file?


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post #15 of 164 Old 04-12-2013, 08:01 AM
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As everyone is discovering, the Oppo only supports single file CUE sheets -- multiple file CUE sheets are not supported.

I have also tried embedding the CUE sheet inside its associated (single file, multi-track) FLAC file but this is not seen by the Oppo. FYI, foobar sees the embedded CUE sheet just fine. The Oppo does see the embedded artwork however.
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post #16 of 164 Old 04-12-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon-XZ71 View Post

Gapless playback is what I am trying to achieve. I have tried Foobar on my Music Server, the problem with that is the OPPO 105 does not support Multi-Channel via it's USB, Optical or Digital Coax inputs, It just does it from HDMI, from a USB Stick/Hard Drive and via the Network, The last two will not support gapless and my Media Server PC does not have a HDMI Output, just USB & Digital Coax. My only hope is to use a large single file with a CUE File. Dark Side Of The Moon comes in at about 4.19 GB WAV and 2.56 GB FLAC. Listening to Dark Side Of The Moon, Classical Music and Live Material is not very enjoyable with gaps.

I had forgotten the 105 doesn't support MCH from its USB input. Hopefully, a future enhancement. smile.gif

Totally agree about the need for gapless playback with live performances, classical, and many progressive rock and electronic/ambient recordings. To me, it is analogous to watching a movie and the screen goes blank at each chapter break.
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post #17 of 164 Old 04-12-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I had forgotten the 105 doesn't support MCH from its USB input. Hopefully, a future enhancement. smile.gif

Totally agree about the need for gapless playback with live performances, classical, and many progressive rock and electronic/ambient recordings. To me, it is analogous to watching a movie and the screen goes blank at each chapter break.


If this is true, then how are people able to play MCH dsd files with the latest beta fw release for both the 103 and 105?
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post #18 of 164 Old 04-12-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattroatl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I had forgotten the 105 doesn't support MCH from its USB input. Hopefully, a future enhancement. smile.gif

Totally agree about the need for gapless playback with live performances, classical, and many progressive rock and electronic/ambient recordings. To me, it is analogous to watching a movie and the screen goes blank at each chapter break.


If this is true, then how are people able to play MCH dsd files with the latest beta fw release for both the 103 and 105?

He's talking about the Asynchronous USB DAC Input -- which is limited to stereo LPCM input.

DSD files (stereo and multi-channel) play just fine from hard drives attached to the regular USB ports.
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post #19 of 164 Old 04-13-2013, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flave View Post

As everyone is discovering, the Oppo only supports single file CUE sheets -- multiple file CUE sheets are not supported.

Indeed. And here's a confirmation from Oppo: -

"Currently the CUE implementation only works with single files, where the CUE sheet is used for referencing the tracks. We will be implementing branching CUE sheet support, which will allow multiple files to be referenced. This will allow for the gapless playback of downloaded, self-authored, and personal backups which are in multiple FLAC and WAV files."

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post #20 of 164 Old 04-13-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Indeed. And here's a confirmation from Oppo: -

"Currently the CUE implementation only works with single files, where the CUE sheet is used for referencing the tracks. We will be implementing branching CUE sheet support, which will allow multiple files to be referenced. This will allow for the gapless playback of downloaded, self-authored, and personal backups which are in multiple FLAC and WAV files."

Cheers

Excellent news regarding the future implementation. It sounds like it's a matter of when, not if, it will occur.
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post #21 of 164 Old 04-13-2013, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Indeed. And here's a confirmation from Oppo: -

"Currently the CUE implementation only works with single files, where the CUE sheet is used for referencing the tracks. We will be implementing branching CUE sheet support, which will allow multiple files to be referenced. This will allow for the gapless playback of downloaded, self-authored, and personal backups which are in multiple FLAC and WAV files."

Cheers

Awesome! When/where did they announce this? Any other news on what's coming? Thanks.
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post #22 of 164 Old 04-13-2013, 09:36 AM
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Awesome! When/where did they announce this?
A forum member going by the name of Woof07 sent me the information via PM. Which was extracted from an email conversation between himself and Oppo...

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post #23 of 164 Old 04-13-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
"Currently the CUE implementation only works with single files, where the CUE sheet is used for referencing the tracks. We will be implementing branching CUE sheet support, which will allow multiple files to be referenced. This will allow for the gapless playback of downloaded, self-authored, and personal backups which are in multiple FLAC and WAV files."

That is the best information I have heard yet, it would definitely solve most of my problems. Now if we could just find out when.........cool.gif

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post #24 of 164 Old 04-16-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I had forgotten the 105 doesn't support MCH from its USB input. Hopefully, a future enhancement. smile.gif

Totally agree about the need for gapless playback with live performances, classical, and many progressive rock and electronic/ambient recordings. To me, it is analogous to watching a movie and the screen goes blank at each chapter break.

 

This is very unfortunate indeed and hope it can be fixed in a future firmware release. I believe you can still play MCH using Optical/Coax since they are able to pass lossy 16-bit Dolby 5.1 audio.


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post #25 of 164 Old 04-16-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

This is very unfortunate indeed and hope it can be fixed in a future firmware release. I believe you can still play MCH using Optical/Coax since they are able to pass lossy 16-bit Dolby 5.1 audio.
As Bob Pariseau has already stated, scolumbo was "talking about the Asynchronous USB DAC Input -- which is limited to stereo LPCM input." Sufficed to say, multi-channel audio files stored on a USB pen-drive can be played just fine.

That said, what any of this has got to do with "Cue file" support (which is the scope of this topic) is beyond me!

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post #26 of 164 Old 04-16-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

As Bob Pariseau has already stated, scolumbo was "talking about the Asynchronous USB DAC Input -- which is limited to stereo LPCM input." Sufficed to say, multi-channel audio files stored on a USB pen-drive can be played just fine.

That said, what any of this has got to do with "Cue file" support (which is the scope of this topic) is beyond me!

I did indeed mean the Asynchronous USB DAC Input. I guess I shouldn't use shorthand to avoid confusion. eek.gif Multichannel audio files stored on USB drives and connected to one of the regular USB Ports has been supported on all 9x and 10x Oppo players.

The reason it was brought up here was the discussion about the difficulty in creating a large single WAV or FLAC file containing hi-rez multichannel audio to be played from a cue sheet. Software players such as Foobar and JRMC play gaplessly from cue sheets with multiple individual files, so you could connect a pc to the Asynchronous USB DAC Input on the 105 and have gapless playback from a cue sheet with multiple files that way (I think), except the Asynchronous USB DAC Input only supports stereo, not multichannel audio.

By the way, the Merge command on Foobar will create a large, single continuous multichannel FLAC file (>2GB) from individual FLAC files, which presumably could then play gaplessly from a cue sheet on the 103/105. This gets around the file size limitation of ripping a large single WAV or FLAC file from a DVD-A or Blu-ray disc using DVD Audio Extractor. Since I don't yet own a 103/105 with the beta firmware I can't test the cue sheet playback on the Oppo, but it will play from a cue sheet using Foobar on my pc, and I can play the file directly on a connected USB drive on the USB Port on my 93 and have gapless playback. Of course, if Oppo implements cue sheet support for multiple files, then creating a large single WAV or FLAC file is not so critical.
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post #27 of 164 Old 04-20-2013, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I sent an E-Mail to Oppo asking about Cue Sheet Support for Multiple Files and received this response:
Quote:
I have read on various Forums that Oppo will be implementing support for CUE Sheets that point to multiple files. Will this give gapless playback of multiple files referenced in the cue sheet ? When will this be implemented? I have many Multi-Channel files that are too big to be made into one large file (will exceed wav or flac file size limitations).

Also, is there a setting on the BDP-105 to remember its last state of use? If I am in USB Input Mode and shut off the player, I would like it to return to that mode when I power back on. Currently, it always goes either back to disc mode or home screen if there is no disc in the player. Each time I turn it on, I have to tell it to go to USB Input mode.

"If we are able to get multi-file CUE sheet support working, then the player will read the the entire CUE sheet gapless. At this time CUEU sheet support is only working with single files, and we do not have an ETA when (or if) multi-file CUE sheets will be supported through firmware.

The player was designed first and foremost as a disc player, which is why it defaults to Blu-ray when turned on. The ability to default it to another input, such as USB IN, is being discussed, but we have not finalized any support for this through firmware.

Best Regards,

Customer Service"[/QUOTE]

Seems that it might be a while untile they get this working

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post #28 of 164 Old 04-28-2013, 12:39 AM
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Hello,

because this is the thread concerning CUE-files, I would like to link my post from the 103 Owner`s thread here. It is for those ones among us who want to play DSD-files gaplessly.

There are updates about detected limitations. There seems to be a 99 or 100 minutes limit (beside the 99 tracks limit) and umlauts are not supported but this will rather touch the fewest ones here smile.gif
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post #29 of 164 Old 05-19-2013, 08:47 AM
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I've been struggling with getting my BSP-105 to accept dff cue files generated by SACD_extract. Everything works with foobar, but the BDP gives the dreaded "invalid cue file" message. Of course, I'm working with single audio files for gapless playback. It seems you have to do the following (I tested this on many SACD_extract outputs, so I'm pretty confident):
  1. The BDP-105 expects indents to be 0, 2, or 4 spaces. 0 for the main body, 2 for the Track tag, and 4 for all tags within the Track tag. The BDP's parsing of the cue file chokes when it encounters the six-space indentation used by SACD_extract. Funny thing - if just one of your Tracks is indented by 6 spaces while the rest of your cue file follows the 0-2-4 rule, that track will appear without title in the BDP disk display, while the other tracks appear fine. Definitely, Oppo needs to fix this silly bug - it is an easy fix on their part. The rest of the cue file parsing seems to work: the BDP parses at all the tags you can throw at it including lead-in and ISRC, and it works with line feed or LF/CR at the end of the line.
  2. This one is strange: there is something the BDP does not like in the header of the cue files generated by SACD_extract. But if you create a new text file and paste in the contents of the SACD_extract. cue file (assuming the above indent rule is followed), then it works.
  3. The BDP-105 expects the filename of the cue file to be that of the audio file (yes - including the extension) with .cue appended. So your cue files should end with *.flac.cue, *.dff.cue, etc. Even if your FILE tag is correct in the cue file, the BDP will display a "cannot find associated file" message if the cue filename does not follow this convention.

All this work because the latest firmware dropped support for SACD-R. I guess I should be happy that now I can have all of this on a hard drive, but OPPO sure didn't make it easy with that horrible cue parser. Hope this helps!
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post #30 of 164 Old 05-19-2013, 10:56 AM
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^ Thanks for posting what you found. If possible please email the information to OPPO Tech Support as well. Since the issues are somewhat related to the CUE files produced by that tool, let them know which tool is doing this, and I'd suggest also sending them before/after CUE files -- i.e., what the tool produced itself, and what you did to edit it to get it working.
--Bob


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