Sub woofer output levels - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 04-12-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
jmnextime1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have my 105 connected to my Pioneer SC-05 receiver using both HDMI and multi channel analog inputs. The 105 speaker levels were set using a Radio Shack sound level meter. When playing a music concert Blu Ray in DTS HD or Dolby HD the bass level on the HDMI connection is much louder (punchier?) then the multi channel connection. I have boosted the 105 sub woofer trim to almost max level and it still does not sound as loud as the HDMI connection which was set up using the Pioneer room correction. I want to use my 105 HDMI connection just for movies and the multi channel connection for music and concert Blu rays. Anyway to correct this situation short of turning the input level up on the sub itself? Thanks in advance for any advice given.
jmnextime1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 04-12-2013, 10:53 AM
Super Moderator
 
teachsac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 4,506
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Please use the Oppo 105 thread for all questions.

S~

Please use the report post button to alert staff to problematic posts. Never quote or respond to them yourself
teachsac is online now  
post #3 of 13 Old 04-13-2013, 03:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Would have been nice for a quick answer (if known) since I've been trying to find out a similar answer for my '93 and searching through the 93 thread is like looking for a needle in a haystack. If I find out I'll post back in this thread to help the OP, seems a shame to put off new members. wink.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #4 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 03:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I'm still unable to find the answer for my Oppo 93 as I've been looking through various 93 threads on here and elsewhere. Not sure if the OP managed to find an answer for the 105? The threads seem full of networking type questions which hold no interest for me since I just use it as a disc player.

Basically is anyone still using the analogue outputs on a 93/95/103/105 and if so what level do you set the sub output to? I find that matching to the same as the speakers at 75dB is too low, but I'd rather be more scientific than just turning it up/adjusting by ear if there is a specific setting requirement.

Please don't suggest that I go on the owners thread...

(Or at least if you do, show me a suitable search term that can find the answer since it isn't in any FAQ that I can see and the search is useless if I use 'level' or 'subwoofer').

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 03:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kilian.ca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ex-50Hz, now 60Hz
Posts: 1,901
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
It isn't a well-guarded secret (to put it mildly) that for analogue MCH inputs you're supposed to boost the sub by 15dB in the processor and/or the sub. What's hard to understand?wink.gif

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

Kilian.ca is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 07:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Well it's well guarded enough that I couldn't find it when searching specifically for it. wink.gif Not only that other responses I've had vary between no change, +10db and now your +15db. If I went with your suggestion then my sub definitely won't cope since it blew at -10dB below reference, so that would make -15db below reference my 'safe' listening level, which is too low for my taste. I'm planing on building a 15" sealed sub, possibly a pair, so at least once I've done that I might be able to listen at reference with the sub set to +15dB as you suggest.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JazzGuyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oro Valley AZ
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Most AVRs have a setting for the 10db bass boost when using the analog inputs. You can then use your SW's controls for the last 5 db or do it in your players analog speaker set up, if it supports it and the Oppos all do. Since a lot of the information overlaps, you can often find information for the the Oppo BDP-95 or BDP-105 in the respective BDP-93 and BDP-103 forums. Speaker setup (including for subs) is one of the things you will find there. Look in the first posting or two for each thread and read it and also connect to the FAQs via the link you will find there. It's really not that hard to find this stuff once you know where to look.

JazzGuyy is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 01:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
My point being that I tried to find the info to help myself out and the OP of this thread, I read the '93 FAQ and it didn't seem to be in there either. It's not in the manual as well which would have been useful since then I'd know 100% that it's meant to be 15dB higher than the speakers. I'm still not 100% convinced that it should be 15dB higher since this is the first time I've heard it said that it's that much more: I had a vague recollection of 10dB but wasn't able to confirm that either.

I'm being told that it's easy to find, yet I couldn't find it despite doing various searches, a simple link might have been helpful...I often post on the projectors, calibration or video processor's sections and find that I repeat the answers/post links to common questions (and via PM too), but if I know the answer then no harm done, plus hopefully Karma will return the favour to me.

What I'm trying to confirm is that when using an SPL meter with the test tones should the sub test tone read 90dB if the speakers read 75dB? Since the test tones are usually 30dB down from reference, this would imply that the sub would reach 120dB at reference at my seat. eek.gif (Not that it would as it would be clipping long before then). Since I understood that the sub can peak at 115dB when at reference that's where I got the 10dB more figure from (115dB minus 30dB equals 85dB for the test tone), but I've not been able to confirm this, only the 15dB figure posted on this thread.

Ah well, it's mostly academic at the moment since my sub isn't working properly having bottomed out a few times lately, so I've had to set it lower until I sort out a more heavy duty replacement.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 01:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JazzGuyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oro Valley AZ
Posts: 2,729
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Bob Pariseau has posted numerous comments on how to set subwoofer levels when using analog outs with Oppo players. The BDP-10X series is slightly different than the 83s and the 9X series. Look for his postings and use the search term "bass" in the appropriate forum(s). Searches for references to bass are complicated by the fact that so many people misspell it as "base". I do not remember all the details. I am one of those people who sets things and then forgets about it unless or until I have to make changes.
Kelvin1965S likes this.

JazzGuyy is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 04-20-2013, 01:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I remember reading posts by Bob, so that's a good tip thanks. smile.gif I hadn't thought to search for 'base' either. smile.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 04-21-2013, 03:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I've just spent an hour or so going through various posts by Bob. This one talks about levels with an SPL meter which was what I was trying to find out. The +15dB part is discussed, but this is part of the setting up process (ie what is required in the background to achieve the correct level), the actual SPL levels he suggests are only a few dBs above the other speakers.

It seems that setting the sub SPL level 15dB higher than the other speakers is NOT what is required and I think this is where the confusion has been at least for me. I'd got the impression that the sub should be set to READ 15dB higher than the other speakers when playing the test tones.

Oddly enough because I've reduced my sub level it now measures about 5dB above the other speakers instead of 10dB, so by fluke I'm now around the level it is supposed to be. Of course it sounds a bit 'light' to me, but I think part of this is a dip in my sub's response: My next sub will have a DSP that allows much better EQing, so I think I'm just going to get familar with REW. smile.gif

I'll post this quote to help the OP, but bare in mind this is from the Oppo BDP93 thread and as mentioned previously the 103/105 may be different. (My bold).

Thanks again to JazzGuyy for pointing me in the right direction. cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


The crossover setting only affects the frequencies steered from "Small" speaker channels to the Subwoofer output. The full range of LFE is always present on the Subwoofer output (assuming the Subwoofer is set to ON). I also recommend you turn Dynamic Range Compression OFF.


There was a bug early on in the level of the built-in test tones, and frankly I haven't checked to see if that was fixed.


I recommend you use the LPCM calibration tracks from "AIX Audio Calibration", Blu-ray, to set your levels. It is best to do this with an SPL meter (set to "C" weighting and "Slow" response, and pointed straight up, held at arms length, at seated ear height, near you primary seating position -- keep the tip of the meter away from seat backs or other blocking/reflecting surfaces such as walls).


To check things are also correct for SACD playback, I recommend using tracks 43-48 of the 5.1 layer from "Stay in Tune with Pentatone", SACD. Do NOT use the similar sounding Channel ID tracks earlier on that SACD as the LFE level for those is deliberately set high to make it easier to hear when doing a basic wiring check.


When setting up the necessary +15dB boost for the subwoofer output, it is best to do that external to the player. I.e., leave the Subwoofer volume trim in the Oppo at 0dB (to prevent clipping of the pre-amp input at the other end of that cable). Note that if you are running through an AVR, the AVR may very well provide +10dB of that by default, and may even have an option to provide the full +15dB. Otherwise you can raise the volume knob on the sub to get the Analog levels correct and then also LOWER the Sub volume trim in your AVR for your digital audio sources to compensate. Check both this Analog and your Digital Sources to make sure everything is set up correctly.


NOTE 1: If *ALL* speakers in the Oppo are set to either OFF or LARGE then you *CAN* safely use up to +5dB Subwoofer output volume trim in the Oppo without worrying about potentially clipping the input at the other end of that cable.


NOTE 2: Unless your room is quite large or has substantial acoustic treatments installed, "Room Gain" in your listening room may be adding a small bass boost below the crossover frequency range. Values of 2-4dB are typical. This is a normal room response characteristic that is desirable to retain. Since the Subwoofer test tones from calibration sources are all in those frequencies, it is NORMAL for the "correct" Subwoofer SPL level to be a few dB higher than for your other speakers. See the Audio Theory forum here for more info. Ideally this would NOT be happening for higher bass such as the top end of LFE (90-120Hz), but unless you are very lucky, you'll need a Room Correction system to achieve this. I'm simply saying don't be surprised if you find you are happier setting the Subwoofer SPL a few dB higher than your main speakers. Alternatively, if your Subwoofer is flush to a wall or corner, its lowest frequencies (below 30Hz) may be getting an UNdesirable boost due to what's called "Boundary Gain". This would argue for setting the SPL a little lower. The bottom line? Trust your ears.

--Bob

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 04-21-2013, 05:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
richmond5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I salute you for going to such depth and detail to refresh everybody, especially to the ones new to Oppo products , to the fullest use of such a fine product!

Alex:)
Kelvin1965S likes this.
richmond5 is online now  
post #13 of 13 Old 04-21-2013, 06:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelvin1965S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 3,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Thanks! smile.gif

It just stemmed from a thread about my subwoofer and I mentioned I was running it 10dB higher (SPL meter reading) than the speakers. A few people asked me why I and couldn't remember exactly where I'd seen it,hence the search. From this research it seems that I was probably running it too 'hot though since I was listening at -10db below reference the sub would have been close to reference. Obviously it can't cope on certain soundtracks with very low bass, such as below 20Hz.

Glad to get to the bottom of it all since I prefer to be scientific about these things (even if I may forget in future how I came to this conclusion redface.gif ). Next stop is a new subwoofer (possibly DIY) with a decent amp and DSP so I can really fine tune it; at least I'll know that I'm not overdriving it now. smile.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
Kelvin1965S is offline  
Reply Blu-ray Players

Tags
Pioneer Sc05 Elite 7 1 Channel A V Receiver With Thx Select2 Plus , Oppo Digital Inc Bdp 105

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off