Just mulling it over, is the Blu-ray on the way out? Vs game consoles? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 05-10-2013, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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My recent inquiry about a Yamaha receiver locally got me thinking....since after that, I was thinking the dvd player would also get updated to a BR player. But I read something online that got me thinking....

>My recent response in Receivers<<br /> My goal was to hook up to the TV [sony BRAVIA KDL42EX440] and then ditch my DVD player. [older sony]
I was then going to also look into getting a blu-ray for this set-up.....but now, after thinking about it, is a blu-ray player a dying piece of equipment? Destined to be like a CD player?

Wouldn't it be wiser to just wait for say, a newer PS4 or Xbox? I'm assuming either of those can do everything a blu-ray player can do now?
>end response<<br />
And now I'm wondering.....it seems many people think playing a disc, regardless of type, is getting antiquated. I personally prefer playing a blu-ray vs streaming. But the game consoles seem to have everything and more than a blu-ray player has to offer now.
Unless the internals aren't as good in a console?

First time I really gave it any thought. Maybe I'll just wait till the PS4 or new Xbox comes out....although I don't really game much.
The kinect was fun at my nephew's house, plus it is exercise.

What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 47 Old 05-10-2013, 02:30 PM
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I use a PS3 for my bluray/dvd/cd player in my main setup. I play GT5 once in a while but that's about it as far as games go. I doubt I'll ever convert to just streaming services due to quality and reliability and access issues, but will use them as is convenient.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #3 of 47 Old 05-10-2013, 02:37 PM
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I dunno. To me the dedicated CD player became effectively obsolete because nearly everyone also had a DVD/Blu-ray player. Certainly BD-capable game consoles will make dedicated movie players redundant in the households that have them, but there are still plenty of households that don't (and probably have no intention of getting them), so there's still a market for dedicated Blu-ray players. Also, there's always the possibility that future game consoles will drop optical drives in favor of other storage media and streaming.
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post #4 of 47 Old 05-10-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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From lovinthehd - - I use a PS3 for my bluray/dvd/cd player in my main setup. I play GT5 once in a while but that's about it as far as games go. I doubt I'll ever convert to just streaming services due to quality and reliability and access issues, but will use them as is convenient.

This is what I see, a backup so to speak, in regards to the streaming. I stopped gaming at GT3, need a steering/pedal set up. Never got past a PS2...but I do have a Wii for the downstairs set-up, although I have DSL, so speed is suffering netflix-wise. I've seen many people state the PS3 is the best buffer for that, don't know that firsthand though.

CatBus also makes an excellent point regarding the CD player....this is kind of where I think the blu-ray might go, although game consoles may not be for everyone, perhaps the blu-ray player market will just shrink way down. I just want to upgrade the upstairs system, and have it be somewhat 'upgrade resistant' for several years without spending a small fortune. [get in line right?]

And all this coming from a guy who doesn't own [or want] a cell phone, or have cable TV.
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post #5 of 47 Old 05-10-2013, 04:35 PM
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The PS3 Netflix application had/has more features than many other players, too plus is a nice easy way to record streaming purchases from Amazon or Vudu. I use a cable internet and hardwire connection to the PS3, was having some issues with wireless just about the same time Netflix came out with their Super HD and "open connect" demands of the ISPs and was wireless before that. I have used another BD player in my bedroom for Netflix, but do have occasional internet issues mostly because it's further away from my router. The PS3 I have (slim 160gb) is quite a good player, but doesn't do SACD like some of the older units did so I use an older dvd player for those. The PS3 downside for a player is it can be a bit noisy.

Oh, I do have a wheel and pedal setup, can't play a driving game with those stupid stock hand held controllers !

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #6 of 47 Old 05-11-2013, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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"The PS3 Netflix application had/has more features than many other players, too plus is a nice easy way to record streaming purchases from Amazon or Vudu."

*This is something I'd lean towards, which tips the scales towards the BR industry shrinking, unless BR players are already capable of this? I'm assuming they are, but are they also 'smart' like TV's w/apps?

"I use a cable internet and hardwire connection to the PS3, was having some issues with wireless just about the same time Netflix came out with their Super HD and "open connect" demands of the ISPs and was wireless before that."

*I have my Wii wired directly, damn ethernet cable on the floor, oh well, the vac. doesn't pick it up.[The future upstairs will have to be wireless]
I already have a good wireless signal for upstairs from the router.

"The PS3 I have (slim 160gb) is quite a good player, but doesn't do SACD like some of the older units did so I use an older dvd player for those. The PS3 downside for a player is it can be a bit noisy."

*How does the PS3 do with buffering netflix? And, if it doesn't play SACD's, I'll assume it can play a flashdrive for music....but probably NOT wma files. My sony TV's will find them, but not play them! Argh! Stupid sony! Have you noticed any buffering situations with your BR player?

"Oh, I do have a wheel and pedal setup, can't play a driving game with those stupid stock hand held controllers!"

*Tell me which type and if you like it! I HATE the handheld for racing! Racing is really the only video type games I play.
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post #7 of 47 Old 05-11-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nightrain383 View Post


*Tell me which type and if you like it! I HATE the handheld for racing! Racing is really the only video type games I play.

One of these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002V3KOMS/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

plus one of these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015HYPOO/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


As far as buffering, have nothing to compare to to say if it's the internet connection or the specific player/app combo, never an issue with a BR disc though. Never tried a flash drive in the PS3.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #8 of 47 Old 05-21-2013, 10:02 AM
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Optical media is dead. The ps4 will only have read only bluray for authenticating that you do not have pirated software. If you have a wired lan with a 50Mbps connection then you will be able to take full advantages of 4k streaming from Sony for PS4. I consult to Sony for could computing and the broadcast industry.
Wait for PS4.
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post #9 of 47 Old 05-21-2013, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

Optical media is dead.

Not at my house, where quality is of the utmost importance.
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post #10 of 47 Old 05-26-2013, 08:32 PM
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Not at my house, where quality is of the utmost importance.
Same here.
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post #11 of 47 Old 05-26-2013, 09:55 PM
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Same here.

In my house my system is just as good or better than most home theaters. And I have had blind tests done where professional calibrators for audio and video systems cannot tell if it is bluray or Apple TV.
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post #12 of 47 Old 05-27-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Optical media is dead. The ps4 will only have read only bluray for authenticating that you do not have pirated software. If you have a wired lan with a 50Mbps connection then you will be able to take full advantages of 4k streaming from Sony for PS4. I consult to Sony for could computing and the broadcast industry.
Wait for PS4.

I don't know where you live but not many people have 50mb download speeds.

And if you're not a gamer at all spending the extra dollars on a PS3 or PS4 would be a waste of money. I got my Pansonic 200 for $79, doubt you'll find a PS3 or PS4 for that price.

Afro GT
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post #13 of 47 Old 05-27-2013, 08:04 AM
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In my house my system is just as good or better than most home theaters. And I have had blind tests done where professional calibrators for audio and video systems cannot tell if it is bluray or Apple TV.
I have an ATV3 and yes the picture quality is great but the BR version of the movie is better not a night and day difference but it is slightly better.
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post #14 of 47 Old 05-27-2013, 09:27 PM
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I don't know where you live but not many people have 50mb download speeds.

And if you're not a gamer at all spending the extra dollars on a PS3 or PS4 would be a waste of money. I got my Pansonic 200 for $79, doubt you'll find a PS3 or PS4 for that price.
Your correct. I would not buy any gaming system. Here in DC Northern Virginia most homes have 75 to 150 FIOS speeds as the average.
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post #15 of 47 Old 05-27-2013, 09:31 PM
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I have an ATV3 and yes the picture quality is great but the BR version of the movie is better not a night and day difference but it is slightly better.
Thanks for the truth. From 10 feet away it is very hard for me to tell the difference and I do not need to archive any shiny disks. I am very happy with my setup. Apple TV 3 gt50 panny and SONOS playbar and sub.
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post #16 of 47 Old 05-27-2013, 10:25 PM
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Thanks for the truth. From 10 feet away it is very hard for me to tell the difference and I do not need to archive any shiny disks. I am very happy with my setup. Apple TV 3 gt50 panny and SONOS playbar and sub.
I use the ATV3 for rentals on movies I am pretty sure will be a one time viewing on movies such as Iron man and Avatar they are on BR as I still like watching them again.
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post #17 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 09:53 AM
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nrc2112, no wonder you can't see a difference.

Try watching on a +100 foot screen. Also, try a 7.1 surround system instead of a soundbar.
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post #18 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 11:15 AM
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Lol. Hundred foot screen. That's funny. Go to your local Magnolia store and demo my system. The SONOS play bar and sub connected to ATV3 and a Panasonic plasma.

I promise you that you will eat these words.
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post #19 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

Lol. Hundred foot screen. That's funny. Go to your local Magnolia store and demo my system. The SONOS play bar and sub connected to ATV3 and a Panasonic plasma.

I promise you that you will eat these words.

So let me get this straight, you're saying optical media is dead because your soundbar has maxed out BD's lossless audio offerings....and professional calibrators can't tell the difference in sound between streaming audio and BD audio, on your soundbar? And your soundbar is better than most home theater setups? Seriously?
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post #20 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I have an ATV3 and yes the picture quality is great but the BR version of the movie is better not a night and day difference but it is slightly better.
Thanks for the truth. From 10 feet away it is very hard for me to tell the difference and I do not need to archive any shiny disks. I am very happy with my setup. Apple TV 3 gt50 panny and SONOS playbar and sub.

You really think sound is acceptable with that setup? I wouldn't use that Sonos stuff except maybe in a bathroom. You like listening to music and watching movies on a phone too? cool.gifrolleyes.gif

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #21 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

And if you're not a gamer at all spending the extra dollars on a PS3 or PS4 would be a waste of money. I got my Pansonic 200 for $79, doubt you'll find a PS3 or PS4 for that price.

You can expect longer firmware support with a PS4 than less expensibe Blu ray players plus there is a very good chance that the Blu ray player in the PS4 will be a BDXL drive
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post #22 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Optical media is dead. The ps4 will only have read only bluray for authenticating that you do not have pirated software. If you have a wired lan with a 50Mbps connection then you will be able to take full advantages of 4k streaming from Sony for PS4. I consult to Sony for could computing and the broadcast industry.
Wait for PS4.

I don't know where you live but not many people have 50mb download speeds.

And if you're not a gamer at all spending the extra dollars on a PS3 or PS4 would be a waste of money. I got my Pansonic 200 for $79, doubt you'll find a PS3 or PS4 for that price.

I'd temper that with a bit of what apps are better in the ps3 than with many dvd players' versions. At least that worked for me in my situation at the time. I do play basically just one driving game so gaming wasn't the whole decision for me, but it's a nice feature to have especially if I end up having some kids in the house. I also have far fewer issues both playing discs and streaming on the PS3 than I do my $100 or so bluray player (Samsung BDD6100). YMMV

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #23 of 47 Old 05-28-2013, 10:52 PM
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Lol. Hundred foot screen. That's funny. Go to your local Magnolia store and demo my system. The SONOS play bar and sub connected to ATV3 and a Panasonic plasma.

I promise you that you will eat these words.

I meant 100 inch, not foot, obviously.

...and no, I don't have to demo your system. Why should I? The Panasonic GT50? Nice plasma, but 50 inches is much, much to small for my taste. Other than that, you can keep the Sonus sound bar (no surround??! you kidding me?!!), and the same with Apple TV, since I wouldn't support Apple on principle alone.
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post #24 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 03:38 PM
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So let me get this straight, you're saying optical media is dead because your soundbar has maxed out BD's lossless audio offerings....and professional calibrators can't tell the difference in sound between streaming audio and BD audio, on your soundbar? And your soundbar is better than most home theater setups? Seriously?
No, I am saying optical media is dead because it is....
Just look at any best buy optical media section, I bet that you will only see a very small area dedicated to it. The CEO of FYE is counting on Best Buy to stop selling all DVD by the fourth quarter of this year. He anticipates that he will absorb that business.

Look at all of the major broadcast corporations, they are pushing a streaming agenda. So is apple, Sony, and Microsoft.

Have any of you with negative responses even listened to SONOS? It was on the front page of home theater magazine this month and the editor has stated that all sound bars are seeing phenomenal growth. The SONOS that I have replaces an AVR as well.

You prima donnas just need to justify your expensive systems that I see and hear no perceptible difference. Go to Magnolia and test drive BEFORE commenting that my setup is not worthy.
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post #25 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 03:58 PM
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Optical media sales are still rising, not as fast as streaming, but still on the uptick.
http://hometheater.about.com/b/2013/05/01/deg-issues-first-home-entertaiment-spending-report-of-2013.htm

I agree that optical media may eventually disappear, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

As for soundbars, while they are compact, popular and great sounding, they still can't compare to speakers which are physically large enough to reproduce all frequencies at levels matching live sound. It's just not physically possible for a tiny object to make big waves (low frequencies) with all the richness, power and overtones of a big object. Show me a frequency response curve that says otherwise and I'll gladly eat my words. I'm glad a soundbar makes you happy, but it's no substitute for the real thing.

I agree on that size screen from 10 feet away, no normal human being is going to be able to tell the difference between 1080 and 720.
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post #26 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 05:38 PM
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Great article! It just reaffirmed my position. Rentals of optical media is down, streaming is up. My question for the forum, if you all were just buying a system today for the first time, would you buy a bluray player? Also, when was the last time you actually PURCHASED anything on optical media?
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post #27 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 06:20 PM
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The majority of people who stream and use sound bars are the same people who watch 4:3 programming stretched to fit their 16:9 screens, and hate seeing pixels wasted on black bars when watching 21:9 content. They are more interested in convenience than they are quality.
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post #28 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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Great article! It just reaffirmed my position. Rentals of optical media is down, streaming is up. My question for the forum, if you all were just buying a system today for the first time, would you buy a bluray player? ABSOLUTELY Also, when was the last time you actually PURCHASED anything on optical media?YESTERDAY
My answers inserted in red.
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post #29 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 07:02 PM
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No, I am saying optical media is dead because it is....
Just look at any best buy optical media section, I bet that you will only see a very small area dedicated to it. The CEO of FYE is counting on Best Buy to stop selling all DVD by the fourth quarter of this year. He anticipates that he will absorb that business.

Look at all of the major broadcast corporations, they are pushing a streaming agenda. So is apple, Sony, and Microsoft.

Have any of you with negative responses even listened to SONOS? It was on the front page of home theater magazine this month and the editor has stated that all sound bars are seeing phenomenal growth. The SONOS that I have replaces an AVR as well.

You prima donnas just need to justify your expensive systems that I see and hear no perceptible difference. Go to Magnolia and test drive BEFORE commenting that my setup is not worthy.

Best Buy will be gone before Optical media, most people buy Blu ray disc's online. Its been a very, very, very, long time since when I bought any optical media @ a Best buy
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post #30 of 47 Old 05-29-2013, 08:17 PM
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No, I am saying optical media is dead because it is....
Just look at any best buy optical media section, I bet that you will only see a very small area dedicated to it. The CEO of FYE is counting on Best Buy to stop selling all DVD by the fourth quarter of this year. He anticipates that he will absorb that business.

Look at all of the major broadcast corporations, they are pushing a streaming agenda. So is apple, Sony, and Microsoft.

Have any of you with negative responses even listened to SONOS? It was on the front page of home theater magazine this month and the editor has stated that all sound bars are seeing phenomenal growth. The SONOS that I have replaces an AVR as well.

You prima donnas just need to justify your expensive systems that I see and hear no perceptible difference. Go to Magnolia and test drive BEFORE commenting that my setup is not worthy.

Have you also noticed the CD and DVD section was replaced by the BD section, which continues to grow? Have you been to Fry's and noticed their monstrous BD section? Of course not. Yes there is push for streaming, but that in no way is a substitute for Blu-ray. Streaming music makes sense. Streaming portable movies makes sense. For the people that want the best video and audio quality out of their HT, streaming does not make sense. The reason you can't tell the difference between BD and AppleTV movies, is because your system can't fully make use of BD's potential.

So now let me address your system. I don't want to be harsh, but it seems like you need a good dose of reality. Your soundbar is mediocre at best. I've listened to MUCH better sound bars than yours (B&W Panorama 2 and Yamaha YSP-5100), and while they sound very good for a soundbar, they are in no way a substitute for dedicated channels. Sorry, that's just reality. So it's understandable why streaming content and BD seem very similar to you.
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