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post #1 of 30 Old 07-05-2013, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been thinking about this for some time now and not ever have owned an oppo player I want to know why i should get one. I have studied up on the oppo units and am aware of what they can do and they do have a very nice feature set. I have periodically browsed both the 93/95 owner threads and the newer 103/105 owner threads , but i cant wrap my head around the need for one....with the exception of the multi-channel analog outputs, pretty much every thing an oppo can do as far as shiny discs playback goes my denon 1611 can do....and I am not much interested in using multi-channel analog any way as I would loose (i think) the room correction features and bass management features in my receiver....I like to use these features when playing back music (cd and SACD).

I understand the oppo's have a reputation of using high quality dacs, but the way i understand things is that using hdmi no dacs in the player are going to be used, so I don't see a benefit for me there.

I also understand that blu-ray players across the board pretty much have identical picture quality when being used for blu-ray playback over hdmi. I will grant that the oppo may be able to make dvds upscale better then my denon, but that is not important to me, as i own only a handful of dvds, and besides my denon has very respectable dvd upscaling capabilities as far as I can tell.

I also understand that the oppo's have some nice mult-media capabilities and can even be used as a pseudo preamp/volume control if connected directly to a power amp (which i do find kinda cool, but doubt I would ever set up this way).

I am most curios as to how or what makes an oppo a superior player of blu-rays and sacds vs my denon. I have read comments many times here on avs, and other places stating how much superior oppo players are for blu-ray and cd/sacd playback and I want to know in what ways it is better then my current denon.

for the record I got my denon 1611 from BB on clearance for just over $180.

...any info to help enlighten me is much appreciated.

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post #2 of 30 Old 07-05-2013, 04:29 AM
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You actually summarized the advantages of the Oppos pretty well. If you will use it just for BluRay and DVD discs, and use digital audio out, then IMO there is no need to upgrade your Denon. If you are now interested in analog audio out for CD/SACD, then the 105 will be a huge upgrade in audio quality (the 105 definitely has much better audio DACs than your 1611). Plus Oppo customer service is 2nd to none. It comes down to whether you will use the extra Oppo features (HDMI inputs, headphone jack on the 105, etc).
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-05-2013, 05:07 AM
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And if you buy directly from Oppo, there is a liberal 30-d return policy so you can compare it to your 1611 and then make a good decision (you're only out shipping costs if you return it).
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-05-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

I have been thinking about this for some time now and not ever have owned an oppo player I want to know why i should get one. I have studied up on the oppo units and am aware of what they can do and they do have a very nice feature set. I have periodically browsed both the 93/95 owner threads and the newer 103/105 owner threads , but i cant wrap my head around the need for one....with the exception of the multi-channel analog outputs, pretty much every thing an oppo can do as far as shiny discs playback goes my denon 1611 can do....and I am not much interested in using multi-channel analog any way as I would loose (i think) the room correction features and bass management features in my receiver....I like to use these features when playing back music (cd and SACD).

I understand the oppo's have a reputation of using high quality dacs, but the way i understand things is that using hdmi no dacs in the player are going to be used, so I don't see a benefit for me there.

I also understand that blu-ray players across the board pretty much have identical picture quality when being used for blu-ray playback over hdmi. I will grant that the oppo may be able to make dvds upscale better then my denon, but that is not important to me, as i own only a handful of dvds, and besides my denon has very respectable dvd upscaling capabilities as far as I can tell.

I also understand that the oppo's have some nice mult-media capabilities and can even be used as a pseudo preamp/volume control if connected directly to a power amp (which i do find kinda cool, but doubt I would ever set up this way).

I am most curios as to how or what makes an oppo a superior player of blu-rays and sacds vs my denon. I have read comments many times here on avs, and other places stating how much superior oppo players are for blu-ray and cd/sacd playback and I want to know in what ways it is better then my current denon.

for the record I got my denon 1611 from BB on clearance for just over $180.

...any info to help enlighten me is much appreciated.

I would second your conclusion that an Oppo doesn't make much sense for you. I went through a similar thought process a number of months ago and decided to stay with my Sony BDP-S1000ES (less than $100 on closeout at Best Buy) and have absolutely no regrets. My Sony does a superb job of everything I care about - as it sounds like your Denon does for you. It's good that Oppo customer service is so highly regarded. It's not so good that it is needed that much?

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-05-2013, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

You actually summarized the advantages of the Oppos pretty well. If you will use it just for BluRay and DVD discs, and use digital audio out, then IMO there is no need to upgrade your Denon. If you are now interested in analog audio out for CD/SACD, then the 105 will be a huge upgrade in audio quality (the 105 definitely has much better audio DACs than your 1611). Plus Oppo customer service is 2nd to none. It comes down to whether you will use the extra Oppo features (HDMI inputs, headphone jack on the 105, etc).

Thanks for the reply,.....What benefit would I have using the multi-channel audio outs for cd or sacd play back? I do understand the quality of dac in the oppo, but i am skeptical of audio differences among competently designed dacs. Am i loosing quality by using my denon dsd over hdmi for sacd playback?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

And if you buy directly from Oppo, there is a liberal 30-d return policy so you can compare it to your 1611 and then make a good decision (you're only out shipping costs if you return it).

im lucky, i could drive over to oppo hq in Mountain View and pick one up in under 30 minutes...no shipping either way.tongue.gif

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post #6 of 30 Old 07-05-2013, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

I have been thinking about this for some time now and not ever have owned an oppo player I want to know why i should get one. I have studied up on the oppo units and am aware of what they can do and they do have a very nice feature set. I have periodically browsed both the 93/95 owner threads and the newer 103/105 owner threads , but i cant wrap my head around the need for one....with the exception of the multi-channel analog outputs, pretty much every thing an oppo can do as far as shiny discs playback goes my denon 1611 can do....and I am not much interested in using multi-channel analog any way as I would loose (i think) the room correction features and bass management features in my receiver....I like to use these features when playing back music (cd and SACD).

I understand the oppo's have a reputation of using high quality dacs, but the way i understand things is that using hdmi no dacs in the player are going to be used, so I don't see a benefit for me there.

I also understand that blu-ray players across the board pretty much have identical picture quality when being used for blu-ray playback over hdmi. I will grant that the oppo may be able to make dvds upscale better then my denon, but that is not important to me, as i own only a handful of dvds, and besides my denon has very respectable dvd upscaling capabilities as far as I can tell.

I also understand that the oppo's have some nice mult-media capabilities and can even be used as a pseudo preamp/volume control if connected directly to a power amp (which i do find kinda cool, but doubt I would ever set up this way).

I am most curios as to how or what makes an oppo a superior player of blu-rays and sacds vs my denon. I have read comments many times here on avs, and other places stating how much superior oppo players are for blu-ray and cd/sacd playback and I want to know in what ways it is better then my current denon.

for the record I got my denon 1611 from BB on clearance for just over $180.

...any info to help enlighten me is much appreciated.

I would second your conclusion that an Oppo doesn't make much sense for you. I went through a similar thought process a number of months ago and decided to stay with my Sony BDP-S1000ES (less than $100 on closeout at Best Buy) and have absolutely no regrets. My Sony does a superb job of everything I care about - as it sounds like your Denon does for you. It's good that Oppo customer service is so highly regarded. It's not so good that it is needed that much?

yeah i do feel i get all i need from my denon, but i am really trying to understand if there would be a benefit by upgrading to an oppo...I'm starting think not so much for my needs anyway...but am open to the possibility.

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post #7 of 30 Old 07-06-2013, 12:48 AM
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I have two Oppos and I dig them but it sounds to me like your Denon is giving you everything you need.
Only you can decide what benefit a change would give you.
Honestly, when it come to tangible improvements, I think speaker upgrades provide more.
I have upgraded my speakers a couple of times and have heard the differences.
I also have an LG bluray player, when I watch BD disc on it, I can't see any difference btwn it and the 93 or 103
that I own.

just my .02 cents

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post #8 of 30 Old 07-06-2013, 07:55 AM
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under your circumstances you shouldn't. it would be a total waste.

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post #9 of 30 Old 07-06-2013, 09:37 AM
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To upgrade to the Oppo 103 IMO is not worth it. But the 105 has better audio DACs than your Denon. But audio differences are likely more subtle than huge, and a lot depends on the quality of your entire system (to listen through inexpensive speakers, for example, would make it impossible to hear any difference). The audio quality when using HDMI output instead of analog audio depends on the DACs in your receiver. I don't see what receiver you have but I suspect the DACs are better in the 105 than your receiver. It all depends on the quality of your entire system (including your speakers) and how important it is for you to critically listen to CDs/SACDs. For most people, your Denon and receiver are good enough. I swapped out my Denon 3910 and Panny BluRay player for the 105 and am very happy for my music listening pleasures.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-06-2013, 10:35 AM
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Keep the Denon and wait a couple of years before upgrading.

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post #11 of 30 Old 07-06-2013, 10:47 AM
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I intend to get an Oppo 105 for my Living Room. That 5.1 system will be primarily music with some day-to-day TV watching. I need a compatible receiver that will comfortably drive my speakers, has a radio tuner, phono input, multichannel analog inputs, and won't duplicate the video and audio processing functions or the networking features of the Oppo 105. Any suggestions?
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-06-2013, 11:27 AM
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I'm not familiar with the Denon 1611 player. My only thoughts are which has the better DACs and audio topology, the Oppo or your un-named receiver? If the receiver is comparable, then I would say there is no need to upgrade. But if the Oppo's DACs are truly superior, then it might be something to think about. SACD DSD mode is absolutely a sonic treat running through the Oppo's analog outputs.

FWIW; I don't use any room correction and am quite pleased.

ETA; I wholeheartedly agree with what Bill P said;
Quote:
.........and a lot depends on the quality of your entire system (to listen through inexpensive speakers, for example, would make it impossible to hear any difference).

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post #13 of 30 Old 07-08-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

I would second your conclusion that an Oppo doesn't make much sense for you. I went through a similar thought process a number of months ago and decided to stay with my Sony BDP-S1000ES (less than $100 on closeout at Best Buy) and have absolutely no regrets. My Sony does a superb job of everything I care about - as it sounds like your Denon does for you. It's good that Oppo customer service is so highly regarded. It's not so good that it is needed that much?

It doesn't necessarily follow that having excellent service means that it is needed so much. Maybe it's just the mark of a company that does things well.

I've had an Oppo BDP-83 for three years. I've come nowhere near needing any service for my player. The thing is built like a tank, was delivered with a subset of the features it has now. While I've had it, Oppo has added SACD and DVD-A capabilities, DLNA and several other features and improvements through firmware upgrades that continued well past the delivery of the 93 and 103.

If I do need service, I know from seeing the posts of owners that have needed it that they are extremely responsive and will turn the changes around fast. I like that kind of committment in a company. So I've had my 83, without service for three years and expect to keep it for much longer. If I do decide to sell it, I'll be able to get a significant amount of the money that I spent on it back, since it holds its value so well.

I plan on getting a 103 soon and move the 83 to a mostly music system in my bedroom. That, I expect will also last me for a long time. Hopefully with equally reliable performance.
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post #14 of 30 Old 07-08-2013, 06:46 PM
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And if an Oppo does break after the warranty (which is 2 years for the 105/103), then Oppo charges a low fixed fee to fix it (whereas other manufacturers do nothing for you or charge an arm and a leg such that it doesn't pay to fix it),
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post #15 of 30 Old 07-08-2013, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

It doesn't necessarily follow that having excellent service means that it is needed so much. Maybe it's just the mark of a company that does things well.

I've had an Oppo BDP-83 for three years. I've come nowhere near needing any service for my player. The thing is built like a tank, was delivered with a subset of the features it has now. While I've had it, Oppo has added SACD and DVD-A capabilities, DLNA and several other features and improvements through firmware upgrades that continued well past the delivery of the 93 and 103.

If I do need service, I know from seeing the posts of owners that have needed it that they are extremely responsive and will turn the changes around fast. I like that kind of committment in a company. So I've had my 83, without service for three years and expect to keep it for much longer. If I do decide to sell it, I'll be able to get a significant amount of the money that I spent on it back, since it holds its value so well.

I plan on getting a 103 soon and move the 83 to a mostly music system in my bedroom. That, I expect will also last me for a long time. Hopefully with equally reliable performance.

I wasn't trying to start a debate about Oppo product quality or customer service.
I doubt that Sony would be as responsive to service needs as Oppo - but I can't provide any experience since nothing has ever failed on any of my Sony players . . they just play everything I throw at them.
I believe features should be the the issue when considering an Oppo - does it offer something you really want to have that other players do not offer?
If not - I don't see where the pricing of an Oppo is worth it. Just my opinion.

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post #16 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 07:27 AM
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I didn't take pricing into account when I purchased an Oppo DV-983H when it was first released in March 2008 for $400. However, I sold it last year for $300 which was the typical price for that model. So net cost to me after over four years of usage was only $100 for the four years it was in service. Selling it was easy on Amazon.
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post #17 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

I wasn't trying to start a debate about Oppo product quality or customer service.
I doubt that Sony would be as responsive to service needs as Oppo - but I can't provide any experience since nothing has ever failed on any of my Sony players . . they just play everything I throw at them.
I believe features should be the the issue when considering an Oppo - does it offer something you really want to have that other players do not offer?
If not - I don't see where the pricing of an Oppo is worth it. Just my opinion.

Agreed, I just addressed the comment about that the great service was needed, implying a product that needed it due to problems - in my experience that hasn't been the case.

As to the main thrust of this thread, it comes not to just the common argument of features versus quality, especially if those features are on a reliable platform.

It is really a comparison of a high end player with many features versus ones that may have a subset of those features that are good enough. To me quality is also part of the argument, but I understand if that's not as important to others.

The Oppo does provide more features than the Sonys, or pretty much any other players right now.

You and all other possible users have to make the individual decision whether those are worth the extra $ 200 to $400 of initial expense. As Moxie brings up, when it is time to sell an Oppo, even a DVD player like the DV-983H, you can still get back most of the money spent, so in the long term, you are not losing much.

So the question of whether the pricing is worth it is probably best answered by:

Will you use the extra features that the Oppo 103 offers; as an example:

DVD-A, SACD, 2D to 3D conversion, excellent DVD upscaling, ROKU stick capability, Attaching to network drives by SMB, Accepting input from other AV devices like cable boxes to be processed by the Oppo internals, very good DLNA implementation, push capability to the Oppo DLNA client, USB connectivity to hard drives, the largest of digital audio and video file processing, multi channel analog connections and so on.

I understand that the Sonys also do SACD, so if you're talking Sony, subtract that from the list.

The list of features is large, but if you are only going to use bluray and are fine with replacing that a few years down the road instead of servicing it if there's a problem, then the Oppo is overkill. If that's your strategy, then the Oppo is wrong for you.

My BDP-83 has a subset of the features of the 103, and I use the disk, network features. To me it has been worth it to "buy an Oppo", but it's just as valid to have a strategy that if something goes wrong, you just buy another low priced player, junking the first player instead of servicing an Oppo.
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

Agreed, I just addressed the comment about that the great service was needed, implying a product that needed it due to problems - in my experience that hasn't been the case.

As to the main thrust of this thread, it comes not to just the common argument of features versus quality, especially if those features are on a reliable platform.

It is really a comparison of a high end player with many features versus ones that may have a subset of those features that are good enough. To me quality is also part of the argument, but I understand if that's not as important to others.

The Oppo does provide more features than the Sonys, or pretty much any other players right now.

yes - but nothing I care about

You and all other possible users have to make the individual decision whether those are worth the extra $ 200 to $400 of initial expense. As Moxie brings up, when it is time to sell an Oppo, even a DVD player like the DV-983H, you can still get back most of the money spent, so in the long term, you are not losing much.

I've never had the need or urge to sell one of my optical media players - & none of them have ever broken - going back to the mid 80's (yes - my 1st CD player - a Yamaha CD-X1 - still lives in a secondary bedroom system).

So the question of whether the pricing is worth it is probably best answered by:

Will you use the extra features that the Oppo 103 offers; as an example:

DVD-A, SACD, 2D to 3D conversion, excellent DVD upscaling, ROKU stick capability, Attaching to network drives by SMB, Accepting input from other AV devices like cable boxes to be processed by the Oppo internals, very good DLNA implementation, push capability to the Oppo DLNA client, USB connectivity to hard drives, the largest of digital audio and video file processing, multi channel analog connections and so on.

I understand that the Sonys also do SACD, so if you're talking Sony, subtract that from the list.

The list of features is large, but if you are only going to use bluray and are fine with replacing that a few years down the road instead of servicing it if there's a problem, then the Oppo is overkill. If that's your strategy, then the Oppo is wrong for you.

No need for any of this stuff - rarely play DVDs anymore, and my Toshiba HD-A35 upscales to 1080p beautifully when I do.

My BDP-83 has a subset of the features of the 103, and I use the disk, network features. To me it has been worth it to "buy an Oppo", but it's just as valid to have a strategy that if something goes wrong, you just buy another low priced player, junking the first player instead of servicing an Oppo.

The Sony BDP-S1000ES in my primary home theater is a truly superb high quality player and serves me very well - still under its 5 year warranty - and cost under $100 on closeout when I bought it. The TV will stream, if I want that, but I really don't even use that except to experiment once or twice. So, as I believe we've both said, how you use your player should determine what you choose. If an Oppo has some unique feature you want, and are willing to spend the extra money for, then go for it. Other than that, I expect most folks are better off with a nicely featured brand name player from the likes of Sony, Panasonic, etc.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 06:47 PM
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Completely agree. And I'm also a very happy Toshiba HD-A35 owner. Still going strong, its upscaling is extremely good.
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post #20 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 04:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

To upgrade to the Oppo 103 IMO is not worth it. But the 105 has better audio DACs than your Denon. But audio differences are likely more subtle than huge, and a lot depends on the quality of your entire system (to listen through inexpensive speakers, for example, would make it impossible to hear any difference). The audio quality when using HDMI output instead of analog audio depends on the DACs in your receiver. I don't see what receiver you have but I suspect the DACs are better in the 105 than your receiver. It all depends on the quality of your entire system (including your speakers) and how important it is for you to critically listen to CDs/SACDs. For most people, your Denon and receiver are good enough. I swapped out my Denon 3910 and Panny BluRay player for the 105 and am very happy for my music listening pleasures.

I think it is fair to say the oppo has better dacs, i even alluded that in my orginal posts...what I dont understand is what the better dacs will do for me sonically. I am not using multichannel inputs at the moment and am not sure why I should change. And I am skeptical of audible differences amongst modern dacs in the first place.. I have learned that it is best to keep the signal in the digital domain as long as possible up to the output to the amp....is this wrong? is multichannle analog better? is it for certain that the dacs in the oppo will provide an audible difference compared to whats in my 1611 or my receiver (onkyo 809)? Am I losing audio quality using my 1611 connected via hdmi to my 809 - yes/no/how? and what about for sacd playback?


FWIW to all the contributors to this thread, I thank you for your input. I am really looking for the answers to the questions above....and i would like to know if any one has or thinks they can identify the oppo dacs in a dbt? Not trying to start any kind of war here, just really trying to understand the "need" for an oppo. I appreciate what they have to offer, but if one can get everything that an oppo can do with another inexpensive blu ray player like my 1611 (and perhaps another box like a dedicated streamer) then why the hype for an oppo?

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post #21 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jsil View Post

Keep the Denon and wait a couple of years before upgrading.

thats is probably what I will do..


ps we need to get together again soon...sorry i have been out of touch for a while.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!
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post #22 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 67jason View Post


FWIW to all the contributors to this thread, I thank you for your input. I am really looking for the answers to the questions above....and i would like to know if any one has or thinks they can identify the oppo dacs in a dbt? Not trying to start any kind of war here, just really trying to understand the "need" for an oppo. I appreciate what they have to offer, but if one can get everything that an oppo can do with another inexpensive blu ray player like my 1611 (and perhaps another box like a dedicated streamer) then why the hype for an oppo?

For the last several weeks I've been engaged in exhaustive research for the 2 new surround systems in the new house I'm building (between monsoons) - a modestly-sized, dedicated light-controlled theater room and a living room opening up to a large kitchen/dining room. Since I have a small library of hi-rez audio disks, I need a true universal player in both rooms, as well as a modern receiver that can handle any components I have now plus any that I can foresee needing into the foreseeable future.

What I've concluded is that Oppo simply has the superior product and nobody else really comes close. For example, the Marantz universal player I considered for the living room (UD7006) costs twice as much as the Oppo but doesn't have an equivalent feature set (but is very handsomely designed and would asthetically match my new Marantz receiver [SR6007], which means more to me than most folks - but not enough to pay the difference).

I don't need to spend 2.5 times as much on a universal player (the difference between the Oppo 105 and the 103) because my new Marantz receiver in the living room duplicates, near as I can tell, the quality of the Oppo 105's DACs. I don't need the 105 in the theater room because my new Denon X4000 receiver will handle everything I need in there and music isn't a priority there, movies are.

So, the conclusion I've reached at this point is that I need 2 Oppo 103's, one for each room. That makes me as "future-proof" as I can get at this time. There's simply no other product that can give me everything they can at an equivalent price that I've been able to find, or that anyone on these boards has thusfar suggested to me.
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post #23 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 10:42 AM
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I've had an Oppo BDP-83 for three years. I've come nowhere near needing any service for my player. The thing is built like a tank, was delivered with a subset of the features it has now. While I've had it, Oppo has added SACD and DVD-A capabilities, DLNA and several other features and improvements through firmware upgrades that continued well past the delivery of the 93 and 103.
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And if an Oppo does break after the warranty (which is 2 years for the 105/103), then Oppo charges a low fixed fee to fix it (whereas other manufacturers do nothing for you or charge an arm and a leg such that it doesn't pay to fix it),

My first Blu Ray player ( a Panasonic ) died 2 months past the end of the regular 2 year factory warranty. Since I used an AMEX card, the extra year warranty AMEX gives covered either repair or replacement. Panasonic's repair center wanted more $ to fix it that it cost to begin with ! eek.gif

AMEX refunded my original purchase price ( over $ 500.00 ), and I bought an Oppo BDP 83. Been using it ever since ( 4 years ? ). It's a great reliable player that provides on outstanding picture ! smile.gif

If I have any specific " need " for the Oppo over other brands, it's that the Oppo will play my home burned Blu Ray HDV video disks without any problem ( they look outstanding ) where Sony's and others have difficulty playing some home burned disks in my experience ( using a Pioneer BR burner ). YMMV.

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post #24 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 01:33 PM
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The oppo has great video processing that you can also use with other sources...great upscaling..very universal plays just about everything..can be made region free pretty easy..has amazing build quality and superfast load times... great firmware updates years later...just about the best player you can get
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

I think it is fair to say the oppo has better dacs, i even alluded that in my orginal posts...what I dont understand is what the better dacs will do for me sonically. I have learned that it is best to keep the signal in the digital domain as long as possible up to the output to the amp....is this wrong? is it for certain that the dacs in the oppo will provide an audible difference compared to whats in my 1611 or my receiver (onkyo 809)? Am I losing audio quality using my 1611 connected via hdmi to my 809 - yes/no/how? and what about for sacd playback?

I appreciate what they have to offer, but if one can get everything that an oppo can do with another inexpensive blu ray player like my 1611 (and perhaps another box like a dedicated streamer) then why the hype for an oppo?

And I don't understand what you don't understand. For PQ with BDs, all players will look very similar. For PQ for upscaled DVDs, there are noticeable differences between players, and the Oppos do an excellent job. I"m sure the Denon is fine as well (I have not compared them and therefore can't tell you whether the Oppo will look better).

For audio, yes there is a difference between players. You agree the Oppo (especially the 105) has better audio DACs than your Denon (which it does). I bet the 105 also has better audio DACs than your receiver. What that does for you sonically is give better audio, provided you use the analog audio outs and have good enough equipment to hear the difference (if you have inexpensive speakers, then no, you won't hear any difference). You are wrong that keeping the signal digitally as long as possible is best. It depends on which equipment has the better DACs, your player or your receiver. If the Oppo has better DACs than your receiver, then audio will sound best using the Oppo's DACs. If the receiver has the better DACs, then you're best off using a digital connection to your receiver. My bet is on the Oppo.

The bottom line is that you can potentially get better audio by switching to the 105, assuming you use the analog audio outs, and assuming you have good speakers. Will the audio differences be dramatic? Probably not. More likely they will be subtle, although IMO the audio from my 105 is considerably better than from my old Denon 3910. IMO, for movies, AQ is not as important, at least to me. But if you criitcally listen to CDs and SACDs, then the 105 may be an upgrade for you. Only you can decide whether it's worth it to you. If you don't critically listen to music, then no, the upgrade is probably not for you. This isn't hype around the Oppo. The Oppo offers excellent capabilities for movies and for audio, has top-notch customer service, and has DACs considered as good as more expensive stand-alone DACs and more expensive CD players. If you are an audiophile, then the Oppo is an excellent choice. If not, then I agree that less expensive players are best for you (PQ with my $140 Panny BluRay player was just as good as my Oppo 105).
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post #26 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post


My first Blu Ray player ( a Panasonic ) died 2 months past the end of the regular 2 year factory warranty. Since I used an AMEX card, the extra year warranty AMEX gives covered either repair or replacement. Panasonic's repair center wanted more $ to fix it that it cost to begin with ! eek.gif

AMEX refunded my original purchase price ( over $ 500.00 ), and I bought an Oppo BDP 83. Been using it ever since ( 4 years ? ). It's a great reliable player that provides on outstanding picture ! smile.gif

If I have any specific " need " for the Oppo over other brands, it's that the Oppo will play my home burned Blu Ray HDV video disks without any problem ( they look outstanding ) where Sony's and others have difficulty playing some home burned disks in my experience ( using a Pioneer BR burner ). YMMV.

My Sony blu-ray players (3 different models) play all my home burned video BD-R and BD-RE discs with no problems & excellent quality (both pq & aq). Using a Lite-On burner.
A top quality processor/preamp/receiver will incorporate excellent dacs and thus top quality digital to analog conversion from the hdmi input - and avoid balancing problems with the LFE channel outputs from players. This long-time high end audio/video consumer and user has no interest in messing around with multi-channel analog connections from a blu-ray player to a pre-amp/processor/receiver unnecessarily. Of course I also do not use video players for music - my top quality/trusty Denon CD player is always my choice for optical media based music.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #27 of 30 Old 07-12-2013, 06:04 AM
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Jason, actually your question is a broader one. Why should one buy a more expensive player (for example, the Sony 790 over the 590, an Oppo, a Cambridge Audio, etc, etc). And the answer is for audio, both additional audio capabilities (such analog audio, which has pretty much disappeared in the lower end models, and ability to play SACD/DVD-A, depending on the specific model) and for better audio quality if you use the analog audio outs ( i.e., better audio DACs). For just playing movies on shiny discs and for streaming Netflix, the lower end models will be just as good as the higher end ones. What you get with the higher end models is generally better audio. Whether that's important to you, only you can decide. You obviously already showed interest in additional audio capabilities when you bought the Denon over less expensive players (that don't play SACD). IMO, the Oppos are even a further step up from the Denon, just as your Denon was a step up from the Sony 590 and Panny 220/230.
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post #28 of 30 Old 07-12-2013, 06:15 AM
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^ Another common factor is speed. At the time OPPO's first Blu-ray player came out (the BDP-83), it was typical for stand-alone Blu-ray players to take 2 minutes or more to power up. That the OPPO 83 could do it in around 30 seconds was considered astounding. The same thing applied to disc loading times, and navigating through, e.g., disc menus.

These days the 83 would be considered somewhat pokey, but it is still generally the case that the more expensive of the CURRENT crop of players are faster than their cheaper competition. This comes from things like dual processor implementation -- which adds cost both in terms of the hardware itself and in software implementation time.

In addition to formats supported, speed, audio/video quality, settings flexibility, novel features like digital audio/video INPUTS, and build, another item to toss in is Warranty. The current OPPO 103 and 105 players come with a full 2 year Warranty standard -- with additional extensions available for purchase.
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post #29 of 30 Old 07-12-2013, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

My Sony blu-ray players (3 different models) play all my home burned video BD-R and BD-RE discs with no problems & excellent quality (both pq & aq). Using a Lite-On burner.
A top quality processor/preamp/receiver will incorporate excellent dacs and thus top quality digital to analog conversion from the hdmi input - and avoid balancing problems with the LFE channel outputs from players. This long-time high end audio/video consumer and user has no interest in messing around with multi-channel analog connections from a blu-ray player to a pre-amp/processor/receiver unnecessarily. Of course I also do not use video players for music - my top quality/trusty Denon CD player is always my choice for optical media based music.


And as noted, you looked at the 103 and made the decision that for your uses it was not worth the expense.

As to top quality processors, then you're trading off the expense of upgrading those as opposed to spending it on the Oppo's capabilities. Again, another price / performance decision the buyer has to make. Your components dictate what makes sense - if you're happy with your CD player and feel no need to upgrade due to that reason, then more power to you.

I left my trusty CD player in the dusty halls of the past, so needed a high quality alternative. The Oppo's combined capabilities for music were right down my alley. Having an older (very good) AVR that only took analog connections and SPDI/F to begin with, the Oppo's analog connections were great. Having updated to a very good HDMI capable AVR, I use that now.

Now, with the lossless music that's available for download / purchase, I'm interested in network play of digital data, something that my current AVR can't handle and my old CD player would definitely have been unable to do. That's one of the incentives for buying a 103 soon. My AVR has HDMI capability, so I'm going 103, otherwise it would be a 105.

So as we both mentioned, what your current use is of your components and what you'd like to do guides what you want for a player. I'd rather not pay more than what the Oppo goes for to get an equivalent CD player ($600 to $2500). I'm using network stored files to play music and am interested in using the Oppo to process the video from other sources, so my leaning for the 103.

As someone mentioned, the choice is not so much between an Oppo and everything else, but between a universal, high quality player and an economy player.

If you have an outstanding CD player, a very good bluray player and are mostly interested in shiny disks, then what you have is perfect for you.
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-12-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

As someone mentioned, the choice is not so much between an Oppo and everything else, but between a universal, high quality player and an economy player.
If you have an outstanding CD player, a very good bluray player and are mostly interested in shiny disks, then what you have is perfect for you.

Anyone who is looking at blu-ray players with any semblance of objectivity would NOT call Sony's ES series players "economy" players.
And yes - my only interest in optical media players is to play optical media. And my older top of the line Denon CD player does a truly superb job with music.
And you are correct - I have absolutely no need for an Oppo player - my player does everything I need or care about as well as an Oppo.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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