Official OPPO BDP-103D (Darbee Edition) Owner's Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 4741 Old 10-16-2013, 09:43 PM
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Anyone that makes the statement "even my PlayStation looks better" tips off everyone that knows better, that person has no clue what they are doing.

I can watch a movie on my slim and see banding. Watch it on a newer Panasonic, Sony standalone or Oppo, no banding. The PS3 was a great player like 4 years ago, come to the realization...

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post #542 of 4741 Old 10-16-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeBar View Post

Many thanks Bill for your quick take on DVD. I always appreciate tinkering. smile.gif

The 103D it will likely be. Just didn't want to lose the opportunity to get some equipment like the old JVC out of the cabinet, if truly no longer needed. I look forward to the 103D but will also likely wait a bit to see if Amazon will start supplying them with Prime. Right now it is strictly through OPPO in CA. I just sent a 103 straight back to them over Fed-Ex shipping issues after refusing delivery. Since this time period coincides with the larger rollout of the 103D, I suspect Amazon will be getting some reseller stock soon themselves. Unless, of course, Oppo treats the 103D like the 105, which I believe Amazon does not offer directly.

Darbee is for blu ray.

 

You sure about this? Bluray only and not DVDs ?


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post #543 of 4741 Old 10-16-2013, 10:33 PM
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^ Darbee works for both HD and SD content. So yes it works with SD-DVD. The Full Pop mode is the best choice for use with SD content -- at a low percentage level. (Use Hi-Def mode for HD content -- also at low percentage levels.)

Darbee will not work well with poor quality content -- noisy or damaged -- as it will tend to make the damage easier to spot. On average, you'll find more SD-DVD's like that than Blu-ray discs. But if you have a collection of good quality SD-DVD transfers you can certainly use Darbee with them and may very well even like the results.
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post #544 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

You sure about this? Bluray only and not DVDs ?

"For the best effect, use Darbee Visual Presence processing with HDTV, or with sub-HD source material (such as a DVD or IPTV) that has been up-converted to either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p............

Nevertheless, the Darblet can be very effective in upgrading low-resolution or even low-quality video. Full Pop mode has the strongest effect in these cases."

The 103 does an effective job with SD as well as many other players.
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post #545 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 03:42 AM
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^ The 103D applies Darbee to SD content AFTER upscaling.

Darbee works just fine with SD content in the 103D, so long as it is good quality SD content.
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post #546 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 04:47 AM
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I am using 60 % Full Pop on most SD content ( 30 to 35% not make eye effect) and you will see difference in PQ (SD only in my case medium quality tv programming)
but when i watch HD content i am using HI-Def 35% to get better PQ

When Oppo iron out little issue with new Darbee Hardware to implementing with next software update every body who has 103 D will be pleased..
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post #547 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

There has been no indication there will be such a thing. OPPO might want to see if this one sells first.

-Bill

Would you get the same results adding an outboard Darbee ?
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post #548 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 05:12 AM
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Ok, now I'm definitely going to return the Oppo 103D after the shocking bad result.

I've started from zero (factory setting on all units). In my last example I took the movie Oblivion and paused it in one of the scenes, showing a stony landscape (still picture with nearly no camera moving). When setting the Darbee level from zero to five percent, the grey stony ground get a little green touch.

FAIL!

Back to the pigeonhole where geek brands like Oppo, Cambridge and so on belong to. May it never be opened again. And hello to well-respected brands like Denon. I'm going to get me the DBT-3313UDCI like I wanted in the beginning.
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post #549 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Whatever1 View Post

Would you get the same results adding an outboard Darbee ?

Yes.

-Bill
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post #550 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bad wombatz View Post

Ok, now I'm definitely going to return the Oppo 103D after the shocking bad result.

I've started from zero (factory setting on all units). In my last example I took the movie Oblivion and paused it in one of the scenes, showing a stony landscape (still picture with nearly no camera moving). When setting the Darbee level from zero to five percent, the grey stony ground get a little green touch.

FAIL!

Back to the pigeonhole where geek brands like Oppo, Cambridge and so on belong to. May it never be opened again. And hello to well-respected brands like Denon. I'm going to get me the DBT-3313UDCI like I wanted in the beginning.

I have not been a butt head in a while on the forum.... BUT!!!!

OH no..... Troll Bad Wombatz who joined yesturday doesn't like reference level video and audio... I think we should all just sell our Oppos, and get Playstation 3's
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post #551 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 07:15 AM
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I don't think he is a troll. He is just expressing his opinion that the Oppo doesn't live up to the hype in his experience.

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post #552 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 08:13 AM
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His opinion is not really valid. Sounds as if he doesn't have things setup correctly in his TV/Projector, and is blaming the player.

It is a reference player through and through. If you don't like reference, then don't buy one. There are plenty of under $100 players that would have made him happier.
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post #553 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 08:15 AM
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And a lot of the benefits being appreciated seems to be equipment/cabling related anyway. I will likely not use the HDMI cable supplied by Oppo for connection with this unit but will try it with other less critical use. I do intend to pipe the HDMI video from the Comcast DVR through the 103D so I will try it there first. The absolute best TV performance for me is much less important than Blu but I am hoping Darbee will help with all of the various content and channel quality from Comcast.

I just ordered after deciding to not wait for Amazon to get them and offer it with Prime. May never happen.

Looking forward to tinkering . smile.gif




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post #554 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

His opinion is not really valid. Sounds as if he doesn't have things setup correctly in his TV/Projector, and is blaming the player.

It is a reference player through and through. If you don't like reference, then don't buy one. There are plenty of under $100 players that would have made him happier.
That's not entirely fair. It's possible he got a defective 103D or that there's a specific HDMI interaction issue with his other equipment. But if he's just here to complain and has no interest in spending a bit of time to figure out what the issue may be, we can't really help him.
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post #555 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 08:44 AM
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I recently spent a few hours with the Oppo 103D and a Sony S790. My Pioneer Elite 09FD has been on a gradual decline so it was time to find a replacement. I loved the Pioneer, and despite the painfully slow load times was sad to see it go.

My setup is a BDP running source direct into a Lumagen Radiance XE, then outputting to a Marantz VP 11S2. The setup has been recalibrated by Craig Rounds within the last eight months. Frankly, I was expecting to just plug in the Oppo and be done with it. We've read it over and over - if you're running Source Direct, players should look the same as they're just feeding the processor digital data.

Unfortunately, that wasn't my experience. I'm finding the Oppo a little soft compared to both the Pioneer Elite and the Sony. The Sony's Source Direct mode is called "Original Source", so I can't swear there's not additional processing from the player, but it's my understanding it's source direct. With that being said, the Oppo looked a bit brighter.

Keep in mind I'm not talking night and day differences, but they were noticeable enough that my unwilling test subject - my wife - had similar observations when I forced her to evaluate some scenes from Avatar.

Unfortunately I'm busy as all get-go this week and won't have a lot of time with these things, but I may even try to see if Craig can get over here for a couple hours (he lives 10 minutes away from me) next week and look at things a little more scientifically.
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post #556 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

His opinion is not really valid. Sounds as if he doesn't have things setup correctly in his TV/Projector, and is blaming the player.

It is a reference player through and through. If you don't like reference, then don't buy one. There are plenty of under $100 players that would have made him happier.

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post #557 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

After some extensive testing of the "3D TV Size" setting while using the Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition, I've come to the conclusion that the "3D TV Size" setting is actually a Stereoscopic 3D visible depth setting. The Default "46 inches" is approximately @ 15% Depth-of-field and is set for what is considered as the consumer adjusted stereoscopic 3D viewing comfort level. The optimum 999 setting allows 100% Depth-of-field for actual real-world 3D depth ability. 100% is also what I apply in my NVIDIA Control panel on my 3D laptop and is why I recognize the real-world range difference changes for closest to farthest objects in a scene.
You are right that the comfort for the majority of consumers is the key reason, but the Spears & Munsil Stereoscopic test confirms that at 999 = 100% depth-of-field, stereoscopic position is 0% at the surface of the display screen, just as accurate as the default setting.

This thread moves quickly, so I'm going to have to backtrack a little. Last night, I finally had a chance to play with the "3D Screen Size" setting. I currently have a BDP-93 installed, but I doubt it works any differently in the 103 or 103D.

I put in the 3D test patterns in the latest Spears & Munsil calibration disc and compared them with the player set to a screen size of as small as 1 and as large as the max 999, with a few random options in between.

I do not share your results. I did not see one iota of difference in the depth or pop-out of the test patterns at any setting. The 0% screen plane is at the same point at all settings, as are the furthest depth and closest pop-out.

The only way this setting could affect the depth of the image would be to adjust the parallax offset between the left and right eye views. When I do this in either my projector or other Blu-ray players with that feature, it's immediately noticeable at even small changes, and becomes uncomfortable to watch at large changes. It also introduces crosstalk artifacts because the eye views don't converge properly.

None of this happens with the OPPO screen size setting. It does not change the parallax offset, and does not alter the depth at all. Not on my screen, anyway.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That's not entirely fair. It's possible he got a defective 103D or that there's a specific HDMI interaction issue with his other equipment. But if he's just here to complain and has no interest in spending a bit of time to figure out what the issue may be, we can't really help him.

I agree it's not fair. I've owned the Oppo 103, the Sony 790 and the Sony 5000es. I have a top notch plasma and know how to set up my devices. I was not wowed by the Oppo. It has it's strengths, but I find its video lacking compared to the Sonys. It's awesome for a great many people. That's the joy of this hobby. Finding what pleades you.

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post #559 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View PostI agree it's not fair. I've owned the Oppo 103, the Sony 790 and the Sony 5000es. I have a top notch plasma and know how to set up my devices. I was not wowed by the Oppo. It has it's strengths, but I find its video lacking compared to the Sonys. It's awesome for a great many people. That's the joy of this hobby. Finding what pleades you.

What Plasma?  Agreed to each their own I like the Oppo and am sticking with it I had Sony and Panasonic and Oppo is so much better especially for Audio, Video is also better on a 10 foot wide screen :)

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post #560 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bad wombatz View Post

Ok, now I'm definitely going to return the Oppo 103D after the shocking bad result.

I've started from zero (factory setting on all units). In my last example I took the movie Oblivion and paused it in one of the scenes, showing a stony landscape (still picture with nearly no camera moving). When setting the Darbee level from zero to five percent, the grey stony ground get a little green touch.

FAIL!

Back to the pigeonhole where geek brands like Oppo, Cambridge and so on belong to. May it never be opened again. And hello to well-respected brands like Denon. I'm going to get me the DBT-3313UDCI like I wanted in the beginning.

Are you looking for help? Or are you too pissed off for that at the moment?

If you are looking for help, the starting point is to check your video calibration with Darbee OFF. You may also want to give OPPO Tech Support a call and discuss your setup with them along with what you are seeing.
--Bob

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post #561 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Verbow View Post

I recently spent a few hours with the Oppo 103D and a Sony S790. My Pioneer Elite 09FD has been on a gradual decline so it was time to find a replacement. I loved the Pioneer, and despite the painfully slow load times was sad to see it go.

My setup is a BDP running source direct into a Lumagen Radiance XE, then outputting to a Marantz VP 11S2. The setup has been recalibrated by Craig Rounds within the last eight months. Frankly, I was expecting to just plug in the Oppo and be done with it. We've read it over and over - if you're running Source Direct, players should look the same as they're just feeding the processor digital data.

Unfortunately, that wasn't my experience. I'm finding the Oppo a little soft compared to both the Pioneer Elite and the Sony. The Sony's Source Direct mode is called "Original Source", so I can't swear there's not additional processing from the player, but it's my understanding it's source direct. With that being said, the Oppo looked a bit brighter.

Keep in mind I'm not talking night and day differences, but they were noticeable enough that my unwilling test subject - my wife - had similar observations when I forced her to evaluate some scenes from Avatar.

Unfortunately I'm busy as all get-go this week and won't have a lot of time with these things, but I may even try to see if Craig can get over here for a couple hours (he lives 10 minutes away from me) next week and look at things a little more scientifically.

The only point of using Source Direct is if you want to pass the output of the OPPO through an external video processor to have it do all the heavy lifting. E.g., you want 480i output for SD-DVD playback, etc.

You should be testing the OPPO at explicit 1080p output -- not Auto and not Source Direct. Set all of the Picture Adjustment settings in the OPPO to their factory default (0) values. In particular, leave the Darbee and VRS settings OFF while doing video calibration testing like this.

You will still need to pick which HDMI Color Space and Deep Color settings work best for your combination of AVR and Display. As I've written before, there is no pat answer for that. The REAL differences between them would be subtle or not even noticeable, but quirks (i.e., bugs) in the video path in AVRs and displays often result in bigger differences. The only way to know is to check and see which combos of Color Space and Deep Color aren't working well.

Now, since you ARE running through an external processor, you really do need to check that the calibration previously set up via that processor is correct. If the processor has been set to deal with issues produced by other players then of course its settings may not apply to what the OPPO is producing.
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post #562 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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Bob,

Appreciate the input. The system was calibrated to have the Lumagen Radiance perform most of the processing and the Pioneer was running Source Direct as well. After Craig did his calibration we did very little to the Pioneer other then adjust it's colorspace to 4:2:2 and Source Direct. That's why I was surprised to see any difference at all while running the Oppo and the Sony in similar modes, basically bypassing their internal processing.
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

What Plasma?  Agreed to each their own I like the Oppo and am sticking with it I had Sony and Panasonic and Oppo is so much better especially for Audio, Video is also better on a 10 foot wide screen smile.gif

64" Samsung F8500. I agree the Oppo's audio is better. I think Oppo portrays color better too. Build quality of the Sony is a joke. Oppo wins hands down in build quality. 3D is better too. I can understand and respect those that prefer the Oppo. I was just saying I understand his point of view.

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post #564 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post64" Samsung F8500. I agree the Oppo's audio is better. I think Oppo portrays color better too. Build quality of the Sony is a joke. Oppo wins hands down in build quality. 3D is better too. I can understand and respect those that prefer the Oppo. I was just saying I understand his point of view.

No worries to each their own peace

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post #565 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Are you looking for help? Or are you too pissed off for that at the moment?

If you are looking for help, the starting point is to check your video calibration with Darbee OFF. You may also want to give OPPO Tech Support a call and discuss your setup with them along with what you are seeing.
--Bob
Thanks, but like I said: with everything turned off in the Darbee and VRS menus, turning the Darbee level from zero to five percent, I feel the result as a distorted picture (with the grey stoney landscape getting a little green touch), as a fail.

In the meanwhile I've tested the Denon DBT-3313UDCI at home and just after a few moments it became clear that this is going to be my choice, as it is a really premium-quality player.
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post #566 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 03:37 PM
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OK. You are the one who has to be satisfied. I can tell you that what you are seeing is not normal, but since you've found a player you like it's really not worth more of your time. Enjoy!
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post #567 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau 
I can tell you that what you are seeing is not normal.

This is what I'm sure about, too.

I'm going to return the Oppo tomorrow, trying to spend a bit more time discussing the problem at the shop. Maybe my Oppo actually has a failure.

Other problem is that the firmware update isn't available for european players by now, but i don't think it will correct 'my' failure anyway.
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post #568 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 03:50 PM
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^ Really? What firmware is in your EU version 103D? Setup > Device Setup > Firmware Information > Main Firmware version.

If it's not the 0910 firmware that could explain everything.
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post #569 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 04:01 PM
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I've put the player back in its box already, can't take a look now. The player won't connect to the (european?) server as it is to new (it's like the server doesn't recognizes the unit).

The guy from the German distribution told me that the 'american' firmware update won't work with the european units, and since I am sure about returning it I'm not going to try it out. I'll call him tomorrow, he knows if the 0910 firmware is installed.
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post #570 of 4741 Old 10-17-2013, 04:08 PM
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It should have shipped with the EU version of 0910 pre-installed -- OR -- included in the box as an update disc with instructions to install that first before doing anything else.

The update server won't come on-line until the first point when there is newer firmware than that available, so it is normal that the player can't find the update server yet.

The North American firmware and the EU firmware are indeed different. The player's installer won't let you install the wrong one if you try -- deliberately or by accident.

Did your player come with any dealer installed hardware modifications? I.e., Blu-ray region free or some such?

Since you are in Europe, are you running 25 Hz and 50 Hz video into a PAL display?

Are you using the HDMI cable that came in the box with the OPPO? (You should. It's a good one.)
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