Official OPPO BDP-103D (Darbee Edition) Owner's Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 03:19 AM
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Quick Question

Received my 103D on Tuesday, love the picture and the sound. My question is that I have my DVR and Projector hooked up to HDMI 1. When I select that port the display on the front of the 103D reports that information to me by scrolling that information. Problem is it keeps on scrolling it over and over. Wouldn't be a big deal if my 103d wasn't in front of my room. I find it a bit distracting. I dimmed the display, but i see no settings to change the way this information is displayed? Hopefully I am just missing it. Any help would be appreciated.

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post #722 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

I saw a demo of the darbee today. it was interesting. for better or worse. does it really matter what size of the tv is? it seems I would need a bigger set tv to notice the darbee in action. I have a 50 inch. the screen I saw was much bigger. nothing that I could afford to do myself.

Jacob

I think its pretty apparent regardless. A lot of the "purists" that are on the fence about it all seem to agree they proper place to use the tech is with a projector, because of inherent issues with sharpness and the tech. Flat panels not so much.

I think youd notice it on a 50" screen. I sit 12 feet from 65" and its easy to see.

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post #723 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 06:07 AM
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I will be receiving my 103D today , can anyone tell me what I would gain by running my Cable Box into the 103D ? vs too my X4000

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post #724 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 06:16 AM
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Are you using the AVR to scale video to match your displays native resolution? If so Id trust the Oppo before I would the AVR, especially since Denon has chosen to use an off brand chip.

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post #725 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Are you using the AVR to scale video to match your displays native resolution? If so Id trust the Oppo before I would the AVR, especially since Denon has chosen to use an off brand chip.

Yes right now I have the cable box > HDMI> x4000 My Sony S790 does great as BluRay player , I ordered the 103 also for SACD playback which I hope it will top the 790

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post #726 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 07:59 AM
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Dumb question: in the 103D, are the VRS and MediaTek processors always on, or do you have to turn them on? If so, what are they called in the machine? And is their use advisable? (I have a 50" Pioneer Kuro connected directly by HDMI.)
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post #727 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan G. View Post

Dumb question: in the 103D, are the VRS and MediaTek processors always on, or do you have to turn them on? If so, what are they called in the machine? And is their use advisable? (I have a 50" Pioneer Kuro connected directly by HDMI.)

Mediatek is also the decoder, so it is always on. It's video processing extras are in the top third of the Picture Adjustment screen. When set to zero it is doing nothing that we know of, either at 1080p or Source Direct, HDMI1 or 2.

VRS is the bottom third of the Picture Adjustment screen. I presume it is always in the path, but with settings at 0 it should be pass-thru.

Advisability: it's always a matter of experiment and personal preference. I leave them at zero. Those trying to improve poor quality sources can try fiddling with them, but how much time does anyone have for that? We recommend turning Darbee off for poor quality video.

Darbee + VRS is a whole realm of combination possibilities, but I haven't heard of results apart from brief experiments.

-Bill
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post #728 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 08:26 AM
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OK, got the 103D delivered yesterday as a replacement for my BDP-83(which is now for sale in the classifieds) and spent all last night playing around with it. My main focus was to see what kind of effect the Darbee had on the PQ and within the first few minutes of testing it out I noticed an issue. I was using The Avengers and in the scene where Loki turns Hawkeye into one of his disciples there's a close up shot of Hawkeye's face and to the right of him is a blue background. When I had the Darbee enabled(both in High Def and Full Pop modes at 35%) that background had a blooming effect with all kinds of noise in it, but when I set Darbee to off the blue background was completely solid with no noise or blooming effect at all. I tried different percentages in both modes, but the effects were still there and the only times they disappeared were when Darbee was off. Has anyone else noticed Darbee introducing these kinds of noise and artifacts into the picture? I'm thinking I probably should have just bought a 103 instead of the 103D because if that's the kind of stuff Darbee is going to do to the picture I'll probably never use it.
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post #729 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 08:35 AM
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Thanks, Bill! Looks like some experimenting is due.
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post #730 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Madden View Post

OK, got the 103D delivered yesterday as a replacement for my BDP-83(which is now for sale in the classifieds) and spent all last night playing around with it. My main focus was to see what kind of effect the Darbee had on the PQ and within the first few minutes of testing it out I noticed an issue. I was using The Avengers and in the scene where Loki turns Hawkeye into one of his disciples there's a close up shot of Hawkeye's face and to the right of him is a blue background. When I had the Darbee enabled(both in High Def and Full Pop modes at 35%) that background had a blooming effect with all kinds of noise in it, but when I set Darbee to off the blue background was completely solid with no noise or blooming effect at all. I tried different percentages in both modes, but the effects were still there and the only times they disappeared were when Darbee was off. Has anyone else noticed Darbee introducing these kinds of noise and artifacts into the picture? I'm thinking I probably should have just bought a 103 instead of the 103D because if that's the kind of stuff Darbee is going to do to the picture I'll probably never use it.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492940/official-oppo-bdp-103d-darbee-edition-owners-thread/690#post_23875448

See Rob's posts on this. Oppo has confirmed that there is a bug they need to fix with their Darbee implementation.

The normal Darbee processing can add some streaking like artifacts at high settings in the more aggressive modes. But in Film mode at 30-35% these should be very minimal. However, there is apparently something going on with Oppo's current implementation where streaking artifacts (described in several posts by Rob) are present even at low settings which are not present when comparing to the stand-alone Darblet processor.

So the bottom line is what you are seeing should be fixed by Oppo and they are working on it.
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post #731 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492940/official-oppo-bdp-103d-darbee-edition-owners-thread/690#post_23875448

See Rob's posts on this. Oppo has confirmed that there is a bug they need to fix with their Darbee implementation.

The normal Darbee processing can add some streaking like artifacts at high settings in the more aggressive modes. But in Film mode at 30-35% these should be very minimal. However, there is apparently something going on with Oppo's current implementation where streaking artifacts (described in several posts by Rob) are present even at low settings which are not present when comparing to the stand-alone Darblet processor.

So the bottom line is what you are seeing should be fixed by Oppo and they are working on it.



Thanks for the quick response. I'm glad to hear they're working on a FW update that will solve this problem because the noise/artifacts introduced into the picture even at a low percentage stood out to me right away. I was really looking forward to the Darbee enhancement, but seeing what it did to the PQ in that scene turned me off it right away so I went ahead and disabled the processing. However, I'll gladly try playing around with it again when they get the bugs worked out. cool.gif
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post #732 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

"Keep in mind" that Josh Z feels the need to defend/promote the product every where he goes...

Fact is, you either like it or you dont, and his "minority" comment is pure opinion. Sure, the fanboys speak of it in droves here, but there are a lot of us that have used it (more than once) and do not like it on anything. Just because we dont blast it all the time doesnt mean we arent here. If you blast it, you tend to have to deal with the fanboys, so it's best to just sit back and not worry about the product either way.

No, what I actually feel the need to do is set the record straight against the non-stop accusations and misinformation spread by people who have never actually used the product.

You have used the Darbee processing and didn't like it. That's fair and I have no problem with you voicing your opinion about it. Even if I disagree with it, at least it's an informed opinion. The same cannot be said for the most vociferous and aggressive of the Darbee haters, almost none of whom have (no, scratch the "almost" - none of them have) ever used the product, and refuse to even look at it out of some dogmatic sense of principle. Yet they are compelled to constantly harass people who do use the processing, troll Darbee threads, and flagrantly lie about what it does to anyone else who expresses interest in it.

Over in the Blu-ray Software forum right now, one particular loony has invaded a disc thread out of the blue to make claims that Darbee smothers a picture in DNR. That's a blatant lie, and no one in the thread had ever said anything about Darbee before he brought it up. One poster mentioned that the disc was grainy, and that was all the pretense the other one needed to launch into an off-topic rant. That's the sort of thing that bothers me.

You say "there are a lot of us that have used it (more than once) and do not like it on anything." I'm curious why you believe there are a lot of other users who share that opinion, if none of you speak up about it? Are you just making an assumption that a lot of others are out there, or do you get together and discuss it outside the forums? (That's not meant to be a sarcastic question. I'm actually interested.)
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post #733 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 09:02 AM
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I've discussed it via PM here and a couple of other sites with several folks. To be quite honest, the general trend of forums nowadays is if you are really really happy with something, shout it to the world, if not, don't say much. It's sad because more input would be appreciated. Several people (see calibrators) don't post any more on any of these topics because of backlash, etc.... If you get them in your home or know them well enough to discuss it privately, they have plenty to say.

This is not just about Darbee, but things in general. How many of you have a read a display review, then after owning it realized the reviewer had no clue? This happens all the time, yet no one calls them out. There is one "reviewer" here who posts nothing but good about everything. Is that because everything they review is that good, or...?

I was probably a little harsh in my response about you, I admit that, but from what Ive seen in the Darbee discussions on 3 different forums is they get pretty vicious. It almost reminds me of people that don't like 3D vs the people that love it, and it ends up being "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all". I also agree there are anti Darbee trolls. I've also spoken with a couple of folks, well known to some, that view the Darbee as doing something that should have been done by the creator of the content if they wanted it to look that way, so they don't even acknowledge the product and won't post about it. Is that fair? Maybe not. My opinion is "don't vote can't complain".

My advice on the Darbee has been buy it if you want to try it because you can sell a Darblet for close to what you pay. Now that the 103D has it built in, and if you are buying an Oppo now, it makes sense to spend the $100 and try it. For me, I do not like it, but I'd not pretend to to know either way how many actually prefer it and how many do not. I just know there are quite a few silent smart guys here who dislike it and don't want the hassle. Once again I wish people could be more open with opinion. I find it easiest just to say I don't like it but you should try it yourself because its not as cut and dry as other recommendations or product reviews.

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post #734 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 09:18 AM
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when using the HDMI input on the rear of the 103D does one have to enable audio ? Im not getting any sound and dont see an option

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post #735 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 09:43 AM
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Yes, it's like some of the attacks when a poster says he can hear a difference when he replaced his old cables with new cables he paid a "Monster" price for and can hear an improvement. If he can hear, or thinks he can hear, some improvement than good for him. He's happy. I'm very happy with my Monoprice interconnects and have no desire to switch, but the personal attacks on his ability to hear, his mental state, or his veracity are way overboard in many cases. I also respect the "ears" of many professional reviewers because they have been doing critical listening for years and can pick out things I would never notice with my casual listening. I guess you could says their ears are trained after many years of critical listening and mine are not. Yet, these professionals are also attacked in forums as being "paid off", or otherwise denigrated. I see what I see and hear what I hear, and if others don't see or hear the same things that I do then fine. Just don't attack me for my experience, and I won't attack you.

Sorry, just a long winded agreement with your post.
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post #736 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:10 AM
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Bottom line: is the oppo 103D the SAME EXACT player as the 103 with just the darbee??? I am aware the the other chips have changed. I currently have no blue ray player and have been borrowing my brothers samsung. I also have an older denon receiver (4802R) with no Hdmi, so the analog outputs are crucial for me. I want to order it, but want to make sure there will be no audio and or video bugs other than some updates to the darbee. Also want to make sure when the darbee is off, there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no visual or audible difference from the 103. Thanks guys.
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post #737 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVKIK View Post

Bottom line: is the oppo 103D the SAME EXACT player as the 103 with just the darbee??? I am aware the the other chips have changed. I currently have no blue ray player and have been borrowing my brothers samsung. I also have an older denon receiver (4802R) with no Hdmi, so the analog outputs are crucial for me. I want to order it, but want to make sure there will be no audio and or video bugs other than some updates to the darbee. Also want to make sure when the darbee is off, there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no visual or audible difference from the 103. Thanks guys.

The differences are listed in the first post in this thread, and in the FAQ.

The -103D subtracts QDEO and adds Darbee and VRS. There were complaints that QDEO added some slight processing even when set to 0 on the -103; this is gone on the -103D.

Audio is the same.

They run the same firmware.

-Bill
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post #738 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Are you using the AVR to scale video to match your displays native resolution? If so Id trust the Oppo before I would the AVR, especially since Denon has chosen to use an off brand chip.
So Denon makes use of Analog Devices 8003 video processor, do you have any idea how long Analog Devices has been in business or how large a company they are? It's not some off brand as you would infer. Marvell Technology Group who makes the Qdeo is a smaller company and much younger. So is Silicon Image that now owns Anchor Bay technology which created the VRS line of video processors.

I agree that Oppo does a outstanding job of programming and tweaking the BD video procesor hardware design, probably much more so then Denon does with their internal video processing and would be the better default video processor to use rather then make use of the built-in AVR's scaler, but selecting a different brand of 4Kx2K video processor is not a "off brand", rather it is a choice about what is available at the time, and Anchor Bay was not as fast on the development as Marvel or AD. Now that the new Silicon Image VRS processor is in the BDP-103D, and it interesting to many that Oppo switched vendors again. smile.gif

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post #739 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:35 AM
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They run the same firmware.
-Bill
True, but still the FW against the BDP-103D has four parts instead of three, main, loader, sub, and darbee.

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post #740 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:36 AM
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How about this then:

Both the Onkyo 818 (HQV) and Denon 3313ci I had (AD chip) caused artifacts with certain patterns I did not see on the Oppo 103, when using Spears and Munsil. I do not trust AVR's for video processing, I do trust Oppo. The 818 even has an image shift with 1080i in when the HQV is off, now thats funny.

Analog Devices may have some grand history but you never hear about them, and I have to think it was a cost cutting move by Denon. Regardless, I buy AVR's to play sound, not process video.

Im probably too hard on AD, it's the AVR's manufacturers that can't get the video implementation right. They should go back to building nice amps with good parts and a HDMI switch, nothing more.
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post #741 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The differences are listed in the first post in this thread, and in the FAQ.

The -103D subtracts QDEO and adds Darbee and VRS. There were complaints that QDEO added some slight processing even when set to 0 on the -103; this is gone on the -103D.

Audio is the same.

They run the same firmware.

-Bill
Thanks mcclain, I don't have high speed Internet (in the boonies), could I just use a thumb drive and USB to download new FW updates. Thanks.
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post #742 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 10:50 AM
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Thanks mcclain, I don't have high speed Internet (in the boonies), could I just use a thumb drive and USB to download new FW updates. Thanks.

Yes, I did that for years. OPPO provides links to both USB and CD versions of the firmware. Go to your fast internet site, download and take home.

-Bill
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post #743 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 11:00 AM
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Man your quick! Thanks so much.
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post #744 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 11:28 AM
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when using the HDMI input on the rear of the 103D does one have to enable audio ? Im not getting any sound and dont see an option

Depending on your Source device, you may need to enable digital audio output on its HDMI to send audio to the OPPO. While viewing that HDMI Input, press the Info button on the OPPO remote. The top line of the on-screen display will show you what is coming in as audio input. If there's nothing there, then you need to enable the HDMI audio output in your Source device.

In the OPPO, the Analog audio outputs are always live. The HDMI audio output is controlled by the HDMI Audio setting, so check that you don't have that as HDMI Audio OFF. Also check that you haven't accidentally hit the Mute button on the remote.

Also, if you have both the HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 outputs in use, with Split A/V set, then audio is muted on the HDMI 1 output. Use the HDMI 2 output for audio in that configuration.
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post #745 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Im probably too hard on AD, it's the AVR's manufacturers that can't get the video implementation right. They should go back to building nice amps with good parts and a HDMI switch, nothing more.
Dream on. biggrin.gif

But revisiting the theme of this back and forth sub-topic, consumers ask that question all the time, I have video processors in my HDTV, AVR, and BD player, which should I use? The answer should be only one, preferably the source or BD player, in this case the BDP-103D. The other gear should have their video processing disabled to the extent it can be without disabling GUI's for controlling the device.

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post #746 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 12:30 PM
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OK, another quick question for anyone who is using the 103D with a 4K TV(and forgive me if this has already been asked/answered). How much better do Blu-rays upscaled to 4K look than 1080p? I'm still on the sidelines for a 4K TV and in no hurry to buy one, but when I do I'm just wondering if Blu-rays with this player will look better on a 4K TV than they do now on my 141FD Kuro.
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post #747 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 01:15 PM
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I was was to do it over again I would buy a 103 and pass on the 103D- darbee and save the 100.00 . I was thinking of sending it back and buying the 103 but the time I pay return shipping its only an 85.00 difference so I guess I have a 103D

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post #748 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 01:20 PM
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Also, is anyone else having trouble with the Netflix streaming on this player? I'm on an 18mbps cable connection and I've tried both wireless and ethernet connections, but can't get Netflix streaming to go beyond 720HD and it's mostly 480SD. It won't ever go up to 1080 or 1080 SuperHD, but I can get that on my PS3 every time I test it out. Is there something I'm doing wrong with regards to the internet connection on this player?
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post #749 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Madden View Post

Also, is anyone else having trouble with the Netflix streaming on this player? I'm on an 18mbps cable connection and I've tried both wireless and ethernet connections, but can't get Netflix streaming to go beyond 720HD and it's mostly 480SD. It won't ever go up to 1080 or 1080 SuperHD, but I can get that on my PS3 every time I test it out. Is there something I'm doing wrong with regards to the internet connection on this player?

Please report all the details to Oppo support.
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post #750 of 5103 Old 10-26-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Madden View Post

Also, is anyone else having trouble with the Netflix streaming on this player? I'm on an 18mbps cable connection and I've tried both wireless and ethernet connections, but can't get Netflix streaming to go beyond 720HD and it's mostly 480SD. It won't ever go up to 1080 or 1080 SuperHD, but I can get that on my PS3 every time I test it out. Is there something I'm doing wrong with regards to the internet connection on this player?
Your not doing anything wrong. The indicated speed has some bugs. You could be watching 720P content and it might say 480P. Being looked at.

Yes please report all details to Oppo as rdgrimes says above.

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