Official OPPO BDP-103D (Darbee Edition) Owner's Thread - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 04:00 AM
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I'm thinking of upgrading to the 103/d and have a question pertaining to sound quality...


Player - sound format - receiver

103/d - LPCM/Bitstream - UMC-200

PS3 - LPCM/Bistream - UMC-200

Technically, since the BD Players aren't doing any DAC, the sound will be the same, correct?

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post #1352 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 04:49 AM
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^ Yes, assuming you limit your question to formats both players can handle.

E.g, no Sony product will ever play DVD-Audio discs, and depending on the flavor of PS3 you own, it may not play SACD discs either. If your PS3 is new enough to output HDMI Bitstream for the lossless formats -- TrueHD and DTS-HD MA -- then that PS3 won't play SACD discs, as that support was only included in the earliest PS3 models.

If your PS3 is old enough that it will NOT output HDMI Bitstream for those, then you will only be able to compare HDMI LPCM output. (Selecting Bitstream output would get you the lossy, "compatibility" track instead of the lossless track you are trying to play off the disc.)

At one point the PS3 was licensed with a "DTS Essentials" decoder, which did not support some rarely used flavors of lossy and lossless DTS. I've lost track of whether that's changed in newer firmware, and if so, whether that applies to all vintages of PS3. For example, a DTS Essentials decoder will decode DTS-HD MA 5.1 192KHz (only likely to be found on audiophile, music-only Blu-ray discs) as LPCM 5.1 96KHz. The full decoder as found in the 103D decodes that as 192KHz. Either way, the Bitstream output is 192KHz.

For formats they both can handle, any differences would represent a bug in one of the players (or the UMC).
--Bob
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post #1353 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I can give you a partial response you hopefully might find useful.

While I don't have my 103D yet, and so can't comment on the Darbee (I was waiting for the firmware update that would take care of the artifiact/
streaking 'bug' before I ordered, so I could test it fairly), I do have all the other players in question, and can say that the Anchor Bay chip in the 983
and 83 is - to my eye - the best at DVD up-conversion.

I'm a film-maker, and closely watching scenes I mastered on DVD the Anchor Bay most accurately reproduced what we were going for in the master.
The Marvell lost some fine detail, especially in shadow areas, and seemed to add contrast, which gave the picture a 'nice' but inaccurate pop.
It also was slightly less accurate on colors.

The MediaTek on my 103 seems to split the difference. More accurate than the Marvell, but less than the Anchor Bay. I love my 983 and 83 and
still use them for just about all my SD-DVD watching. Not only are they the most accurate to the original, they also just (to my subjective eye) look
the best.

I'm very curious to try the Darbee. The purist in me knows it's taking the image away from 'accurate' - always the case when you add processing.
But there is room for subjectivity since no monitor or set up is perfectly accurate anyway. (Just like no two movie theaters project exactly the same
image). If it looks better to me, then great. I'll use it without shame. The reality is downscaling from an HD master to SD-DVD always results in some
compression oddness and, of course, loss of depth and detail, so if the Darbee brings that back, or even the illusion of it, great by me.

Although I will say, more people here seem pleased by what it does for blu-ray than for SD.

I know that's only a partial answer, and it's just one opinion, but I hope it helps.

I'll report back once my 103D arrives.

It looks like I should look for a used DV-983H or a BDP-83.

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post #1354 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 10:12 AM
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I had a chance to watch some movies with the 103D. This is also the first time I have seen the Darbee processing in action (RS-45 onto 110" Carada BW). I did not believe I would see much difference. My wife didn't see a difference but that does not surprise me. It had to be night and day for her. What I saw was very impressive.
The picture looked more 3-D like that before. Characters really stood out from the background. There also appeared to be a greater sharpness. Even an old DVD looked pretty good. I am very impressed with the player. I had the 93 before and feel the upgrade was worth it.
The only thing I don't like is not being able to see the whole set up menu while watching a movie. It is rare that I have to make a change but the 93 allowed that without stopping the disc.
The remote definetly has better range than the 93 but I use a universal anyway, so no big deal.
Going to try the Roku stick with it. Nice price from Oppo direct.
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post #1355 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 11:18 AM
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Hello all,

 

I hope you will forgive me for not reading all 48 pages of this thread, but I have a question that was no doubt already answered.  Based on internet reviews, I am planning to buy both a OPPO BDP-103 and a stand alone Darbee for a new home theater build.  It's cheaper to get Darbee already in the BDP-103D than to buy a stand alone unit, but then I can't use the Darbee part for the satellite input, or can I?  I see a HDMI input on the back of the unit.  We are planning to watch sports and other TV in the home theater as well as blu-ray movies.  (some background:  Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector, 106" fixed screen, Onkyo TX-NR818 Receiver, MartinLogan 7.1 Surround Sound)

 

Am I missing something?  Is there any other advantage to buying the 103D over the 103?  Should I just bite the bullet and bet a stand alone Darbee?

 

Thanks for your input!

 

Tom.

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post #1356 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 11:32 AM
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The 103D has two HDMI inputs, whatever is input into the 103D, the Darbee can be used on.

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post #1357 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 03:16 PM
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Also the 103D uses VRS so the picture is actually sharper than 103 (I own both)

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post #1358 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Also the 103D uses VRS so the picture is actually sharper than 103 (I own both)
Just to be clear, the VRS in the 103D is used only for video enhancements and scaling to 4K, basically the same as the function of the QDEO in the 103. They both (103 and 103D) use the MediaTek SOC for all other deinterlacing and scaling. Video processing in the 105 is identical to the 103.
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post #1359 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 04:20 PM
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True,but the qDEO applies some kind of NR regardless (when you use HDMI 1) which makes it slightly softer when projected (based on my A/B between the two models with all parameters set to 0)
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post #1360 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomKarelis View Post

Hello all,

I hope you will forgive me for not reading all 48 pages of this thread, but I have a question that was no doubt already answered.  Based on internet reviews, I am planning to buy both a OPPO BDP-103 and a stand alone Darbee for a new home theater build.  It's cheaper to get Darbee already in the BDP-103D than to buy a stand alone unit, but then I can't use the Darbee part for the satellite input, or can I?  I see a HDMI input on the back of the unit.  We are planning to watch sports and other TV in the home theater as well as blu-ray movies.  (some background:  Panasonic PT-AE8000U projector, 106" fixed screen, Onkyo TX-NR818 Receiver, MartinLogan 7.1 Surround Sound)

Am I missing something?  Is there any other advantage to buying the 103D over the 103?  Should I just bite the bullet and bet a stand alone Darbee?

Thanks for your input!

Tom.


I have my DTV HDDVR24 hooked up thru my 103D HDMI input and the video is golden! Im wondering now if I could hook up a HDMI splitter so my PS4 & XBOX can take advantage of the darbee! Inquiring minds want to know! biggrin.gif
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post #1361 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

True,but the qDEO applies some kind of NR regardless (when you use HDMI 1) which makes it slightly softer when projected (based on my A/B between the two models with all parameters set to 0)
You can always use the 2nd HDMI output on the 103 to deal with that difference, which should then be identical to both HDMI outputs on the 103D if all the extra video processing (including Darbee) is disabled.
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post #1362 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 06:27 PM
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Anyone running two DVR's into the 103D? I have a Directv and Tivo DVR, and the TiVo currently runs into the HDMI Back. Was considering running the Directv into the Front. Are there any conflicts with doing this, or does it effectively work the same front and back?

Thanks.

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post #1363 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Anyone running two DVR's into the 103D? I have a Directv and Tivo DVR, and the TiVo currently runs into the HDMI Back. Was considering running the Directv into the Front. Are there any conflicts with doing this, or does it effectively work the same front and back?

Thanks.

Just works the same.
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post #1364 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Just works the same.

Awesome, thanks.

Gonna order a 270 degree hdmi adapter for the front and go to town!

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post #1365 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ingramba View Post

I have my DTV HDDVR24 hooked up thru my 103D HDMI input and the video is golden! Im wondering now if I could hook up a HDMI splitter so my PS4 & XBOX can take advantage of the darbee! Inquiring minds want to know! biggrin.gif

Same as above. You have a 2nd input on the front you can use. For the 3rd you can add a HDMI switch. However the more things you add like switches, could add additional headaches with HDMI handshaking. At one point Oppo made a very nice HDMI switch.
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post #1366 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 06:45 PM
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Maybe on the BDP-113 they can add a few HDMI in's along the back wink.gif

To me, even if there wasnt a PQ difference, one of the joys of running stuff thru the 103 is at any time I can hit info and see exactly what is coming and exactly what is going out.
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post #1367 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Maybe on the BDP-113 they can add a few HDMI in's along the back wink.gif

To me, even if there wasnt a PQ difference, one of the joys of running stuff thru the 103 is at any time I can hit info and see exactly what is coming and exactly what is going out.


I know right? A couple more HDMI ports, and audyssey/emoQ sound processing, and this could be the next killer pre!

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post #1368 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 07:12 PM
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So it sound like the 103D actually has a better video performance than the stand-alone Darbee.  Any argument with that?  It sounds like anything you input into the 103D can get a video boost in performance.  Thank you all for your help!

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post #1369 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 07:12 PM
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Its funny, everyone wondered how they would top the 93 since you cant really improve much on blu-ray PQ any more...look at em now...

They definitely beat out some of the AVR's that tout there video processing, because some of em have issues. With Oppo you know its done right and they care.

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post #1370 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Yes, assuming you limit your question to formats both players can handle.

E.g, no Sony product will ever play DVD-Audio discs, and depending on the flavor of PS3 you own, it may not play SACD discs either. If your PS3 is new enough to output HDMI Bitstream for the lossless formats -- TrueHD and DTS-HD MA -- then that PS3 won't play SACD discs, as that support was only included in the earliest PS3 models.

If your PS3 is old enough that it will NOT output HDMI Bitstream for those, then you will only be able to compare HDMI LPCM output. (Selecting Bitstream output would get you the lossy, "compatibility" track instead of the lossless track you are trying to play off the disc.)

At one point the PS3 was licensed with a "DTS Essentials" decoder, which did not support some rarely used flavors of lossy and lossless DTS. I've lost track of whether that's changed in newer firmware, and if so, whether that applies to all vintages of PS3. For example, a DTS Essentials decoder will decode DTS-HD MA 5.1 192KHz (only likely to be found on audiophile, music-only Blu-ray discs) as LPCM 5.1 96KHz. The full decoder as found in the 103D decodes that as 192KHz. Either way, the Bitstream output is 192KHz.

For formats they both can handle, any differences would represent a bug in one of the players (or the UMC).
--Bob

Thank you for such a detailed response! Thumbs up for sure. Using LPCM via HDMI would render the same audio quality when using either player.

So the biggest advantage I would gain going from a PS3 to a 103D is the improved video quality (better video processor) , and features (HDMI in, media support, Darbee, etc).

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post #1371 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 09:39 PM
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When people are running Netflix, VUDU or even a Blu-ray disk, on their 103D and then to their receiver (in my case a Denon 4311) then to the TV, how can I be sure I am getting only the OPPO video processing and not any extra Denon video processing? And this would be bad if there were any double video processing correct?
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post #1372 of 5823 Old 11-25-2013, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehale View Post

When people are running Netflix, VUDU or even a Blu-ray disk, on their 103D and then to their receiver (in my case a Denon 4311) then to the TV, how can I be sure I am getting only the OPPO video processing and not any extra Denon video processing? And this would be bad if there were any double video processing correct?
In the case of the 4311, you just go into the setup menu - video , and turn video scaler convert and I/P scaler to OFF. You can do the same with most AVR's, that is turn off its video processing.

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post #1373 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 05:53 AM
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In the case of the 4311, you just go into the setup menu - video , and turn video scaler and I/P scaler to OFF. You can do the same with most AVR's, that is turn off its video processing.

What he said.

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post #1374 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 07:17 AM
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Seems the new beta release for the EU models 103 and 103D is now also published :)

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post #1375 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

In the case of the 4311, you just go into the setup menu - video , and turn video scaler and I/P scaler to OFF. You can do the same with most AVR's, that is turn off its video processing.

As far as i know on the 4311, there are two settings:

i/P scaler
and
video convert

Turning i/p scaling to analog or off will ensure the Denon does not scale on HDMI inputs.

Turning video convert to off will ensure that the Denon doesnt add additional unwanted video processing ... such as modifying chroma, brightness, etc ... however the downside of doing that is, you will loose on screen overlay. You will get the onscreen menu, but it wont overlay ... it will switch. So no onscreen volume.

Quite honestly, just ensure that the picture adjust settings hasn't being modified and all set to 0 or off ... you should be fine, and can leave video convert to on.
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post #1376 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 02:04 PM
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So how long does it usually take for a firmware to come out of beta? I prefer using the final version and downloading it from the player itself.
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post #1377 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Anyone running two DVR's into the 103D? I have a Directv and Tivo DVR, and the TiVo currently runs into the HDMI Back. Was considering running the Directv into the Front. Are there any conflicts with doing this, or does it effectively work the same front and back?

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Just works the same.


Pretty awesome that you can do this. I'm assuming that for your directv dvr you'll be using the 2nd HDMI out which won't let you use the VRS or darbee right?
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post #1378 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 02:11 PM
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Pretty awesome that you can do this. I'm assuming that for your directv dvr you'll be using the 2nd HDMI out which won't let you use the VRS or darbee right?

No, actually I have the TiVo Roamio into the HDMI Back, the HR44 into the HDMI Front, then one cable from the HDMI 1 out to the AVR, then one cable from the AVR to the plasma.

Allows me to send native resolution from the DVR's into the 103D, then have the 103D send out 1080p/60 to the plasma. I can unplug the HDMI Front when I want to use the Roku Stick.

Working well.

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post #1379 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 02:34 PM
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So how long does it usually take for a firmware to come out of beta? I prefer using the final version and downloading it from the player itself.

No way to predict. Depends on whether they want to do another Beta first.
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post #1380 of 5823 Old 11-26-2013, 04:09 PM
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7. Added the support for MKV file with PGS subtitle.


Anybody verify this working in the new beta firmware? I tried on three different movies and failed on all three (John Carter (forced subtitles with aliens at the beginning), A Good Day to Die Hard (forced subtitles Russian at beginning), Crouching Tiger (whole movie).

I also posted a question about PGS subtitles on the 103 forum several months ago and this was the response:

"Not gonna happen. Official word is that MediaTek doesn't know how to parse the PGS subtitles when they are inside a container. Since the decoder manufacturer can't support it, OPPO can't support it."


So something has changed since then but it is still not working for me and was hoping some of the seniors here could shed some light on the topic.

Thanks,
Greg
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