Official OPPO BDP-103D (Darbee Edition) Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4756 Old 10-05-2013, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Ya know whats funny about lumagens, its hard to find someone recommend one other than owner's. Several calibrators Ive talked to, two of which where in my home, gave pretty frank comments on the product and its price.

Just sayin...

Owner recommendations do have some merit... Would take that over a novice with no experience with a product! Also, with calibrators, I'd expect some lost business with a lumagen tied into autocal... Photogs didn't like digital cameras at first either.

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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #182 of 4756 Old 10-05-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Ya know whats funny about lumagens, its hard to find someone recommend one other than owner's. Several calibrators Ive talked to, two of which where in my home, gave pretty frank comments on the product and its price.

I put a lot more stock in what owners say than those who make or lose money on them.

Noah
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post #183 of 4756 Old 10-05-2013, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Interesting.

One would think that since the algorithms are the same that they must be referring to UI issues, but joerod is being taken to task in a thread in the >$3k projector forum for making a similar statement.

Algorithms might be the same, but DarbeeDR stated darbee works best when closest to the source. You cant get much closer to the source when you're inside the player..
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post #184 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 05:25 AM
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Both were reputable calibrators and one even sells them, the issues have nothing to do with autocal because I was a customer that wasnt going to use it anyways, since they were coming to calibrate it ALL! I also owned a Radiance Mini 3D for a little bit of time, waste of money. Whats more amusing about the lumagen, as with a DVDO Duo, the more aggressive you get on it's internal calibration controls the more banding you can see. So the recommendation is to calibrate the display internally first, then tweak with the VP. Whatever, just buy a proper display to begin with and keep your money in your pocket and out of Lumagens hands.

The fact is, if you buy a nice display nowadays you get all the calibration control you need, and unless you have a lot of sources, the Oppo 103D fits in there nicely. Sure, if you technically need the lumagen for certain reasons in your HT, its nice, but for anyone looking at buying a new display, just spend the extra dough and get the controls. Then if you arent happy with the VP abilities, use the Oppo and save yourself some money.

Anyways, Im easily off topic, im sure the Lumagen/3D Lut fan club will be after me now. Oh, and another note on autocal, I find it amusing that people with a colorimeter go out and buy an expensive VP to auto cal. You are using a non reference instrument with a reference generator, to calibrate your display...

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post #185 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 05:33 AM
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Very interested but was planning to upgrade my region-free modded 93 to the 105. From personal experiences with the Darbee technology, is the effect that much different than a very high quality sharpness control?

And what about losing Qdeo? Will that make much difference compared to gaining Darbee? Would it be any better (not cheaper wink.gif) to just get the $300 Darbee and add it to the signal chain?

Any scuttlebutt on a 105D?

Before I make a decision of 105 vs this, I'd like to get opinions from people who've actually used Darbee. Currently, as some of you may know, I have a 151 Kuro plasma. I am seriously considering finally getting a PJ setup in 2014.

Steve
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post #186 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Owner recommendations do have some merit... Would take that over a novice with no experience with a product! Also, with calibrators, I'd expect some lost business with a lumagen tied into autocal... Photogs didn't like digital cameras at first either.

I owned the Mini 3D...

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post #187 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Very interested but was planning to upgrade my region-free modded 93 to the 105. From personal experiences with the Darbee technology, is the effect that much different than a very high quality sharpness control?

And what about losing Qdeo? Will that make much difference compared to gaining Darbee? Would it be any better (not cheaper wink.gif) to just get the $300 Darbee and add it to the signal chain?

Any scuttlebutt on a 105D?

Before I make a decision of 105 vs this, I'd like to get opinions from people who've actually used Darbee. Currently, as some of you may know, I have a 151 Kuro plasma. I am seriously considering finally getting a PJ setup in 2014.

Don't take this the wrong way, but all of that is answered in this short thread, plus read the first post. IMO, the 103D is a good move by Oppo and I don't think its overpriced for what you get. Ill be selling the 103 as soon as I get the 103D.

One of the interesting things vs a standalone DVP model is that this on board solution can be updated. With the original Darblet, updates required you to send it in. I'm not sure if the new Darblet coming has that ability or not, the 5100 IIRC. Darbee reminds me of Vudu, they started off with their own hardware, but the more intelligent endgame was to get built into everything smile.gif

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post #188 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Very interested but was planning to upgrade my region-free modded 93 to the 105. From personal experiences with the Darbee technology, is the effect that much different than a very high quality sharpness control?

Darbee is different than traditional sharpness controls. People who hate edge enhancement might like Darbee. You can see more in the many Darblet reviews and in the Darblet thread.
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And what about losing Qdeo? Will that make much difference compared to gaining Darbee?

Not much difference.
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Would it be any better (not cheaper wink.gif) to just get the $300 Darbee and add it to the signal chain?

That would give you the option of moving the external box around. No better otherwise.
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Any scuttlebutt on a 105D?

We're presuming OPPO will want to see how well the 103D does first.

-Bill
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post #189 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:31 AM
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I
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I owned the Mini 3D...
I was not implying that you are a novice... Only that I place value in owner opinions, including yours.
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I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #190 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I
I was not implying that you are a novice... Only that I place value in owner opinions, including yours.

Sorry, misunderstood.

Going to move on, not the thread for that discussion smile.gif

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post #191 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:53 AM
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BDP-103D 24Hz MKV's?

The Beta Firmware Version for the BDP-103 is Main Version: BDP10X-60-0808B. The BDP-103D Firmware is Main: BDP10x-60-0910. Are 24 Hz MKV's working properly on the 103D or is this still something waiting to get fixed. Thanks.

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post #192 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 08:11 AM
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Are they going to be the same FW issued to both, or completely different?

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post #193 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Are they going to be the same FW issued to both, or completely different?

I assume they should be different but, just curious if the 103D might have the fix already in.
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post #194 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Are they going to be the same FW issued to both, or completely different?
A single official or official beta FW update that you download will apply to the 103/103D/105 models .
The main update will be applicable to all models. The loader and sub updates vary with each model. The Darbee update will only be applicable to the 103D. smile.gif
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post #195 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pciav View Post

BDP-103D 24Hz MKV's?

The Beta Firmware Version for the BDP-103 is Main Version: BDP10X-60-0808B. The BDP-103D Firmware is Main: BDP10x-60-0910. Are 24 Hz MKV's working properly on the 103D or is this still something waiting to get fixed. Thanks.

The Darbee Firmware is basically the 60-0808 with additional instructions for allowing the player to load the additional Darbee hardware and some fixes to said hardware. So no, the 24Hz issue is not resolved. This will be resolved by the end of this month.
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post #196 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The Darbee Firmware is basically the 60-0808 with additional instructions for allowing the player to load the additional Darbee hardware and some fixes to said hardware. So no, the 24Hz issue is not resolved. This will be resolved by the end of this month.
Thanks for the update and hoping that issue is put to bed by the end of the month.

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post #197 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:05 PM
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Some one please tell me what is wrong with 24Hz MKV files at the moment? I bought the unit 100% to use my MKV Blu-ray rips at 1:1?

What problems am I going to run into?

is it just 24Hz, or 23.976Hz as well?
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post #198 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Any 24Hz (23.976 or 24Hz locked) MKV will be converted to 60Hz. Again, most people will not even see a difference, particularly as most people are not using Source Direct.
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post #199 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:17 PM
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OK, that's annoying as all get out... Oppo said they will fix it?

I was hoping this player would be better then my Netgear NTV550...

Come on Oppo, get that fixed ASAP!!!!!!!!!!

Stop making silly mistakes.
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post #200 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Please read a couple of posts up. I already said they are looking at having it resolved by the end of the month.
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post #201 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Any 24Hz (23.976 or 24Hz locked) MKV will be converted to 60Hz. Again, most people will not even see a difference, particularly as most people are not using Source Direct.

I could be wrong about this, but I could've sworn the 103 played 1080p24 MKVs at their native frame rate before the firmware problem, even when the player's output was set to 1080p. I'm pretty sure Source Direct wasn't necessary. Something to do with framerate conversion only occurring if the player's resolution is set to something other than that of the source.
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post #202 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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If you had 1080p 24Hz Output enabled, then it would output 24Hz. But the best way to always ensure transparent output is using Source Direct, as sometimes off frequencies can cause the player to output 60Hz by mistake.

Again, though, I stand behind my statement that most people who like "24Hz" output are not even taking advantage of it. They just like seeing the resolution show 1080p 24Hz on their display. Their display will still convert 24Hz to 60Hz (or higher) and most displays which do 48Hz or 72Hz have major flickering issues. In some cases, such as with Panasonic plasmas, 24Hz actually introduces more judder, not reduces it.

It is psycho-visual. You believe there is less motion judder because of the "24Hz" in the display. Sorta like the 4Kx2K doesn't really make much of a difference, and at least with the 4K Media Server that works with Sony displays, the content is actually worse than the Blu-ray counter parts. But due to the nature of the display showing a true 4K signal, people perceive the resulting image as being better, but when done side by side, you will see it is not.
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post #203 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 08:47 PM
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So if I set the player to 1080p 24Hz it will play a MKV BD rip 1:1at 23.976Htz correctly with the current firmware?

Or glitch and still send out 1080p 60?
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post #204 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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No. As already answered several posts above yours, MKV 24Hz is not working at the moment. All MKV files will be decoded and output as 60Hz regardless of the player's settings.
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post #205 of 4756 Old 10-06-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

If you had 1080p 24Hz Output enabled, then it would output 24Hz. But the best way to always ensure transparent output is using Source Direct, as sometimes off frequencies can cause the player to output 60Hz by mistake.

Again, though, I stand behind my statement that most people who like "24Hz" output are not even taking advantage of it. They just like seeing the resolution show 1080p 24Hz on their display. Their display will still convert 24Hz to 60Hz (or higher) and most displays which do 48Hz or 72Hz have major flickering issues. In some cases, such as with Panasonic plasmas, 24Hz actually introduces more judder, not reduces it.

It is psycho-visual. You believe there is less motion judder because of the "24Hz" in the display. Sorta like the 4Kx2K doesn't really make much of a difference, and at least with the 4K Media Server that works with Sony displays, the content is actually worse than the Blu-ray counter parts. But due to the nature of the display showing a true 4K signal, people perceive the resulting image as being better, but when done side by side, you will see it is not.

One experience I've had supports your argument, which is the Roku streaming stick. It supports 24fps on Netflix, which I didn't know until I fired it up and started watching some shows I'd been watching previously via the built-in Netflix app. There was an obvious improvement in motion during pans on the Roku. Unfortunately, the 103 doesn't seem to handle 24fps input properly because it drops frames every 20 or 30 seconds, but not one other person has posted anything about this or responded to my comments on it in the 103 thread, so it lends credence to your theory that people actually don't notice this stuff all that much. It drives me crazy though smile.gif

Panasonic has had issues with 24fps content, but most other display manufacturers have handled it just fine. I noticed pretty quickly when 24fps support in MKVs broke. Now that I'm accustomed to watching film-based content at 24fps, seeing it at 60fps just feels off. I've switched back to Blu-ray until the firmware fix shows up.
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post #206 of 4756 Old 10-07-2013, 04:34 AM
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I have a BDP-95 who's remote always felt like I was punching a block of wood.

Would any of the beta testers who are familiar with the 95 comment on the 103D's remote.?

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post #207 of 4756 Old 10-07-2013, 04:38 AM
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I have a BDP-95 who's remote always felt like I was punching a block of wood.

Would any of the beta testers who are familiar with the 95 comment on the 103D's remote.?

It's the same design. Are the buttons particularly stiff or is the player just not getting the button presses?

-Bill
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post #208 of 4756 Old 10-07-2013, 04:51 AM
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Bill

Buttons are a bit stiff. Built to last, no doubt.

I have the Harmony One programmed but find that I prefer using the player's remote.

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post #209 of 4756 Old 10-07-2013, 05:42 AM
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IMO, the 103's remote is better than my 93's was, with regards to pressing buttons.

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post #210 of 4756 Old 10-07-2013, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View PostI put a lot more stock in what owners say than those who make or lose money on them.

Agreed 100% if I don't like a product or feel I have been ripped off I sure like to express my opinion so others don't make the same mistake. In addition, if I like a product then I also comment about it and explain why I like it.

 

Those who sell these products will always tell you they are the best thing since sliced bread :) Having said this my dealer tries to be very objective.

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