The Pioneer BDP-82FD/83FD/170/470/LX58/LX88 2014 Blu-ray Player Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 76 Old 07-16-2014, 10:31 PM
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post #32 of 76 Old 07-17-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Big C View Post
I think part of Pioneer's problem is trying to find a high-quality, afordable OEM solution for their players. As for what you said about buying a BDP-170 with an Elite paintjob, I suspect the same thing was happening in 2006 with the DV-696AV selling for $300 as the DV-46AV, and in 2007 with the DV-600AV selling for $300 as the DV-48AV. At least in 2008, the DV-610AV was selling for $200 as the DV-49AV. Too bad the 2007-model $500 DV-58AV didn't come out before Blu-ray took off because that was an awesome SD universal player, worthy of the Elite brand! In fact, from the moment I got mine till this day, I have been using it as a basis for how I judge all HDMI-equipped receivers, SD DVD players and Blu-ray players. While they have been struggling with disc players, has anyone noticed the new receivers with Sabre Premier ES9006 DACs, HDMI 2.0, and 4K upscaling? For $600, the Pioneer VSX-1124 and for $700, the Elite VSX-80 have audio specs similar to the Burr-Brown PCM1796 DACs in the Elite DV-58AV. However, being that you can connect Blu-ray players to their new receivers via HDMI, it would be a lot like playing Blu-ray discs on a DV-58AV, if you know what I mean. A few years ago, getting a receiver that can do what these new ones can do used to cost at least between $1500 and $2000, or possibly more than that. With receivers this good, you don't need a player with good DACs and a beefed-up analog section. Basicly, all you need is a Blu-ray player which bitstreams via HDMI. However, if Pioneer wants a flagship companion player, maybe they should focus on things like blocking sound from coming from the disc mechanism, making the disc mechanism less volnerable to external vibration, and keeping PQLS bitstreaming via HDMI. Speaking of quiet, protected disc mechanisms, they should base it on the DV-58AV, but replace the MediaTek MT-1389EXE CPU with the MediaTek MT-8556 (or later) CPU, add Blu-ray support, WiFi, LAN, USB, HDMI 1.4, a Source Direct option under HDMI resolution, bitstreaming PQLS, and remove both the analog audio and analog video sections. That would be worth $300.
Why not get 150 or 62fd then while they are still available? I got a 150 recently at Bestbuy clearance.

A2, A35, 150, 62fd, s6200, WDTV LIVE, HTPC w/ HD-DVD/BD
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post #33 of 76 Old 07-17-2014, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Why not get 150 or 62fd then while they are still available? I got a 150 recently at Bestbuy clearance.
Some time within the next few months, I'll probibly order the BDP-80FD. If I can get PQLS to work, I'll be glad I have a high-speed player that can output Blu-ray at 1080p/24Hz and DVDs at 480i and convert all the lossless audio formats to PCM. If I can't get PQLS to work, I would then be returning it because that would mean the BDP-80FD would be just a BDP-170 with the Elite ambre display, firmware, and remote--something not worth double the price. Then I'll have to wait and see. Will Pioneer release a flagship model that includes features not found in/on the BDP-80FD? If not, I hope I won't have waited on Pioneer too long and missed out on a used BDP-52FD--the only player that meets my requirements--MediaTek MT855x CPU, 1080p/24 for Blu-ray, 480i for DVD, SACD, PQLS bitstream, NTSC and Pal bitstreams, and SD DVD multi-region via IR.

Edit 1:

I just remembered that CEDIA and IFA will be coming up soon, and that we should be expecting some announcements between now and September. Considering that's not as far off as it was a few months ago, I think it would be a good idea to give it a rest, wait and see, and take it from there.

Last edited by Big C; 07-17-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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post #34 of 76 Old 07-17-2014, 10:11 PM
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Thanks for the insight, Big-C. If I remember correctly, Pioneer's DVL-909 was really a DVL-90. Dimming the panel distinguished the two players from each other. So, I am not surprised they did the same swap for DVD models you mentioned.

As for PQLS, I believe you can find the info. for it on page 39 of the BDP-80's manual. It's a little bit tricker than just pushing the button on the BDP 62. Even so, I just pushed the PQLS button on my Pioneer receiver to activate it on the 62. I don't see why you could not do the same with the BDP 80.

I suppose I'll keep my fingers crossed for the reference player. It would be nice of Pioneer unleashed one last good player. Nevertheless, they still make great receivers. In the end, only time will tell.

J.P.
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post #35 of 76 Old 08-04-2014, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I just checked four manuals from Pioneer Europe--the 2011 manual for the BDP-140/440/LX55, the 2012 manual for the BDP-150/450, the 2013 manual for the BDP-160, and the 2014 manual for the BDP-170. The 2011 and 2012 manuals mention that PQLS only applies to the BDP-440/450/LX55. The 2013 and 2014 manuals, like the manual for the US model BDP-80FD, doesn't define PQLS, but briefly mentions it. Now it's starting to look like we have PQLS consistancy between the BDP-80FD/160/170. So if anyone gets a BDP-80FD/160/170 and discovers that PQLS doesn't work with their 2010-2014* Pioneer or Pioneer Elite receiver, Pioneer needs to be notified to revise the manual!

*For 2010 receivers, in order for PQLS to work, set the BDP-80FD/160/170's HDMI audio output to PCM. For 2011-2014 receivers, you may set the BDP-80FD/160/170's HDMI audio output to Bitstream or PCM.

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post #36 of 76 Old 08-14-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got off the phone with Pioneer tech support regarding the BDP-80FD. I told the guy that I suspected a typo in the manual regarding PQLS. He put me on hold and he doublechecked with the engineers. They said that as long as HDMI control is set to On on the player and receiver that PQLS will work. I didn't ask about the DSD-to-PCM conversion frequency (88.2 KHz or 176.4 KHz), but I'll be getting a VSX-80 by the end of the year which converts DSD directly to analog anyway which will make DSD-to-PCM less of an issue in the long run. I don't know when, but I hope to get the BDP-80FD soon. I just wanted to let you know I finally got what sounds like a firm answer.
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post #37 of 76 Old 08-22-2014, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Pioneer of Europe replied to my question. They said that the BDP-160 and BDP-170 do not support PQLS, which confirms my suspitions about a typo, at least for the European models. Three days ago, I ordered the BDP-80FD from PUSA's online shop. I e-mailed the sales department, explaining my conversation with tech support and that if they turn out to be wrong, I will be returning it. They checked with tech support and everyone is insisting that I'll be able to get PQLS to work. If my suspitions turn out to be correct and I have to return it, I'll have to get one of the used BDP-52FDs on Amazon. I should have the player in a few days, have it connected, and test it. I'll let you know either way.
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post #38 of 76 Old 08-22-2014, 02:56 PM
 
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Yup, just keep in mind that Euro spec may not necessarily apply to US players. I was reading Sony BD player thread and apparently Euro-spec S6200 is different from US S6200 in terms of capabilities even though hardware-wise both are very similar if not identical. So it basically comes down to software or firmware.
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post #39 of 76 Old 08-22-2014, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
Yup, just keep in mind that Euro spec may not necessarily apply to US players. I was reading Sony BD player thread and apparently Euro-spec S6200 is different from US S6200 in terms of capabilities even though hardware-wise both are very similar if not identical. So it basically comes down to software or firmware.
I thought PQLS required more hardware inside the player, and that different firmware wouldn't be enough to make a player PQLS compatible. I can prove that simply adding Elite cosmetics cannot justify doubling the price. The Elite VSX-80 receiver is only $100 more than the Pioneer VSX-1124. If the BDP-80FD is double the cost of the BDP-170, there must be some major features added that PUSA never publicized. I'd love to know what they are!
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post #40 of 76 Old 08-23-2014, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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This is interesting. Spatial Online has the BDP-LX58 and BDP-LX88. Yet Pioneer of Europe still hasn't mention those players. So either Spatial Online knows something we don't, or they aren't aware that Pioneer made the English site in post #4 of this thread take that writeup off the site.
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post #41 of 76 Old 08-25-2014, 08:15 AM
 
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If the BDP-80FD is double the cost of the BDP-170, there must be some major features added that PUSA never publicized. I'd love to know what they are!
Sony S7200 and S6200 are identical except for the outer case but S7200 is whole lot more clams. Cosmetics can dictate more money, it seems.
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post #42 of 76 Old 08-25-2014, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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My BDP-80FD arrived today. It doesn't include PQLS. Considering that PQLS is important to me, it's going back to PUSA. If Pioneer of North America sold this player as the Pioneer BDP-170, I might recommend this player if you're like me and use your player for Blu-ray, DVD, and SACD, and use your computer for online streaming. But I can't recommend this player to anyone, especially with players like the Sony BDP-5200 out there which cost less than half the Pioneer Elite BDP-80FD and can do even more. If Pioneer of North America sells it as the BDP-170 with an MSRP between $130 and $150, I might recommend it as a basic high-resolution video and audio player.
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post #43 of 76 Old 08-27-2014, 03:01 AM
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Press release
http://pioneer.jp/corp/news/press/index/1793

BDP-LX58, BDP-LX88
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post #44 of 76 Old 08-27-2014, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ace Of Snakes View Post
Press release
http://pioneer.jp/corp/news/press/index/1793

BDP-LX58, BDP-LX88
If these models make it to North America, I have a feeling that the BDP-LX58 will go for $600 or $700, and the BDP-LX88 will go for $1000, or a little more. If you plan on using these players with current Pioneer and Pioneer Elite receivers such as the VSX-1124, VSX-80, SC-81, SC-82, SC-87, or SC-89, you'd be wasting at least $300 on a multi-channel analog output section you wouldn't even be able to use, since none of Pioneer's receivers starting from 2010 have multi-channel analog input. I think what Pioneer should do is release a stepup player from the BDP-80FD and BDP-170 by simply removing the analog A/V outputs and fancy power supply from the BDP-LX58 and BDP-LX88, while keeping the PQLS and whatever else is included via HDMI. I would assume that the BDP-80FD and BDP-170 are Pioneer's platform for 2014, and all their stepup players will be based on it. After trying the BDP-80FD, the speed, GUI, and narrow-angled remote sensor haven't really changed much since 2011, except for some streaming features I would prefer to use a computer for. Considering that I have a VSX-80 receiver on backorder, all I need is a universal player with PQLS bitstream which can output from 480i-1080p/24Hz. The BDP-52FD is the only Pioneer player with a MediaTek CPU which will fulfill these exact requirements. However, being that it's discontinued, I had to get one off of Ebay. Assuming that Pioneer's 2014 Blu-ray player lineup seems to be set in stone, the VSX-80 receiver (with the Sabre Premier ES9006 120dB DAC for $700) and BDP-52FD Blu-ray player (for $250) would make up a good system to settle on for a few years. Yes? Amen?

Last edited by Big C; 08-27-2014 at 07:36 AM.
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post #45 of 76 Old 08-27-2014, 05:58 PM
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If these models make it to North America, I have a feeling that the BDP-LX58 will go for $600 or $700, and the BDP-LX88 will go for $1000, or a little more.
LX88 is close to $3000 USD. Its MSRP in Japan is 278000yen.

http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201408/27/35452.html

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post #46 of 76 Old 08-27-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post
LX88 is close to $3000 USD. Its MSRP in Japan is 278000yen.

http://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201408/27/35452.html
My text-to-speech software doesn't load the text after I click the link you provided.
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post #47 of 76 Old 08-27-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Big C View Post
My text-to-speech software doesn't load the text after I click the link you provided.
Try this site:

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/n...27_663745.html

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
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post #48 of 76 Old 08-27-2014, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post
A lot of it is in Japanese like the pioneer.jp press release. I did get some of it. These players are the same ones in post #4 . It looks like we'll be stuck with narrow-angled remote sensors and the strange behavior when connected to the internet as mentioned with previous models. I don't use these players for network or internet streaming, so that's not a problem for me. I only use them for disc and USB playback. I've used a few players which might have loading times five to ten seconds less, but anything is faster than those old Pioneer players with the Renesis CPU, such as the BDP-05FD, BDP-09FD, BDP-23FD, BDP-51FD, BDP-320, BDP-LX52, BDP-LX71, and BDP-LX91 from 2008 and 2009. I think by feeding a BDP-52FD into a VSX-80, you'll get quality and speed at a price other manufacturers would charge twice or three times more for.
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post #49 of 76 Old 09-03-2014, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Check out my review on Amazon for the BDP-80FD.
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post #50 of 76 Old 09-03-2014, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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New European press release from Pioneer. These are fine if you have a receiver with 7.1-channel or even 5.1-channel analog input. However, it would be a waste to get these players for use with today's receivers, since they don't have multi-channel analog input. A mid-range HDMI transport replacement for the BDP-52FD, BDP-53FD, BDP-62FD, BDP-440, BDP-450, and BDP-LX55 would have been nice! Maybe a BDP-82FD or BDP-470? Oh well, at least I got a BDP-52FD in excelent condition for sale on ebay while I still had the chance.
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post #51 of 76 Old 09-04-2014, 01:11 AM
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The BDP-LX88 sure does look nice.
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post #52 of 76 Old 09-04-2014, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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The BDP-LX88 sure does look nice.
If you have separate amps, pre-amps, processers, or an older receiver with the required multi-channel analog inputs, then it would be worth it. For that kind of money, I'd rather have a receiver with the same ESS Sabre Ultra 32 ES9018 DAC so I'd be able to listen to all my sources (TV, streaming, etc.) with the same audio quality.
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New European press release from Pioneer. These are fine if you have a receiver with 7.1-channel or even 5.1-channel analog input.
You don't need multi-channel analog input anyway, since LX88 only has a stereo RCA/XLA output. It does support PQLS though, a feature that you always wanted from what I read over the years.

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
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post #54 of 76 Old 09-04-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post
You don't need multi-channel analog input anyway, since LX88 only has a stereo RCA/XLA output. It does support PQLS though, a feature that you always wanted from what I read over the years.
If you have a receiver with ESS Sabre Premier ES9006, Ultra 32 ES9011, ES9016, or ES9018 DACs, the analog stereo outputs in these new players are a waste of money. I just ordered an Elite SC-81 via Pioneer's factory store with expedited shipping. While an HDMI output with video output from 480i-1080p@24Hz/60Hz and PQLS bitstream is the best match for the receiver I just ordered, as long as I was able to find a nice BDP-52FD in excelent condition, why should I spend money on a stereo analog output section I have no need for? So unless Blu-ray goes 4K/UHD on 100GB discs, I just might have come to a point in my A/V journey where I can stop thinking about all the science and start enjoying all my BDs, DVDs, and SACDs. If they stick with 50GB discs for 4K/UHD Blu-ray, in order to accomidate for the higher resolution, you'd wind up with half the bitrate per pixel. You'd be better off upscaling native 1080p Blu-ray discs to 4K/UHD resolution.
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post #55 of 76 Old 09-11-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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The press release on Pioneer's site isn't complete, but here's one for the Elite BDP-85FD for $1k and BDP-88FD for $2k. You've got to be kidding! Whether these players have stereo analog out or 7.1-channel analog out, with their own expensive receivers featuring ESS Sabre Premier and Ultra 32-bit DACs, this is got to be a total waste of manufacturing cost and resources! While these players may produce high-quality audio and video, it's not like you can connect other HDMI devices to them and take advantage of the circuitry of these players with every device you have. What Pioneer should do is replace the BDP-52FD, BDP-53FD, BDP-62FD, BDP-440, BDP-450, and BDP-LX55 with a stepup from the BDP-80FD and BDP-170, and a step down from the BDP-85FD. Boy am I glad I found a BDP-52FD to pair up with my new SC-81. Now if only Pioneer could resolve the hi-res bitstreaming but with MediaTek Blu-ray players hopefully via firmware updates for the players and receivers.
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post #56 of 76 Old 09-11-2014, 08:34 PM
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Experts-

is/are there any new Pioneer Elite BR players slated for the Fall of 2014?
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post #57 of 76 Old 09-11-2014, 11:47 PM
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The Elite BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD will be here in december
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post #58 of 76 Old 09-11-2014, 11:58 PM
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No 7.1-channel analog out on either but their is something called "zero signal terminal(for audio/video quality tuning)" on both players
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post #59 of 76 Old 09-12-2014, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't understand zero signal terminal. Is that an HDMI output which generates different video screens and generates different sounds for calibration? If it's not HDMI, how are you supposed to connect it? If it doesn't generate test signals, what does it do?
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post #60 of 76 Old 09-12-2014, 02:38 PM
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No hdmi, it is a single rca style jack
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