OPPO BDP-105 & 105D as a pre/pro - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 03-09-2014, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Tell us what do you like and dislike about using the 105 or 105D as a pre/ pro? In addition tell us what improvement you would like to see so the OPPO Replace your AVR wink.gif
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post #2 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 12:08 PM
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Here's my experiences on this.

My thought initially was just like most of ours would be: The shorter the signal path, the less sound degradation, the better. Running straight from the source would bypass a whole other piece of equipment, and provided the volume control on the OPPO is mostly lossless, we can only gain signal integrity.

So, I tried it running straight from the OPPO to my amp (Ayre V-5xe, bypassing my K-5xe MP preamp) and the music sounded very sweet and airy, with beautiful sound staging. Problem was, I seemed to be missing low end punch, and highs lost crispness. What was wrong? Why was I losing sonic power?

Spoke with my dealer and he explained that players are not designed to put out enough power to drive an amplifier. They're designed to be fed into a preamp, and the preamp has much more power at its output stage than a player does, and thus is able to drive an amplifier to a superior dynamic range. Dynamic range being exactly what I was missing.

Discussed it with a friend of mine who's a sound engineer, and he explained that one of the differences between pro gear and home gear is that pro amps have a very high input impedance, whereas home amps have a very low input impedance. When an amp has very low input impedance, essentially, the flood gates are wide open and the amp is sucking all the juice out of your input device--hence why home preamps have very high output voltages, it's in order to drive an amp that would have low input impedance.

So unfortunately, yet again theory (or hope) does not always match up to reality, in terms of using a direct path from player to amp. One could still very effectively hook up their OPPO straight into an amp, it just has to have a high input impedance. That would be lovely to hear, and I can't see why a pro amp, or even home amp with high input impedance, wouldn't play just fine with the OPPO by themselves.

Hope this helps,
Omar
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post #3 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 12:45 PM
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^ Check out this white paper (PDF file) posted by OPPO UK. They recommend you use an amp with an input impedance of 47K ohms or greater, which is actually not that unusual for home theater amps:

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/UserFiles/Docs/PDF/BDP-105EU%20Direct%20Power%20Amplifier%20Connection%20V2.pdf

--Bob

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post #4 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like I should be good

 

CA-M600   600W MonAural Amplifier

Click to enlarge


All tests un-weighted and 500kHz measurement bandwidth (except SNR)

Frequency response

1 Hz - 100 kHz, -3dB

Output power

600W rms into 8Ω (27.8 dBW)
1200W rms into 4Ω (27.8 dBW)

Harmonic Distortion

<0.002% at 1 kHz balanced
<0.004% at 1 kHz single ended

Peak Output Voltage

226V peak to peak, 80V rms no load
206V peak to peak, 73V rms into 8Ω

Input Impedance

50kΩ balanced / single ended

Voltage gain

29dB balanced / single ended

Input level at clipping

2.86V rms balanced / single ended

Intermodulation Distortion

>100dB below fundamental into 8Ω balanced / single ended
>90dB below fundamental into 4Ω balanced / single ended

Signal to Noise Ratio

-120dB at peak output into 8Ω
Measurement Bandwidth: 22 kHz

Output impedance

0.03Ω @ 1 kHz

Standby power consumption

< 1W

Rated power consumption

440W @ 1/8th power into 8Ω

Width

17.5” (444mm)

Depth

17.52” (445mm)

Height

8.78” (223mm)

Gross weight

100 lb (45.4 kg)

Net weight

88 lb (39.9 kg)

Mains voltage

Specified on rear panel

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post #5 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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And also

 

CA-5200 - POWER AMPLIFIER

sp-CA-5200L.jpg
 

The CA-5200 is a 5 x 200W model, based on the same channels used in the CA-2200. Power supply components are large enough to allow for the greater power demands of five channels without sacrificing performance. Design features include balanced circuitry, overbuilt power supplies and oversized output stages to ensure the highest performance at every output level, with any loudspeaker.

 


models
(balanced inputs)
CA-5200
voltage gain 29.1dB
bandwidth

phase
155kHz (-3dB)
22kHz (-0.1dB)
< -10° (22kHz)
sensitivity 1.4Vrms

power/channel (continuous)
(120VAC line, 1kHz signal regulated to 1% THD + noise into resistive load, all channels driven)
load (resistive)  
200W
370W

THD + noise (unweighted, 10Hz - 500kHz bandwidth, 1Vrms/1kHz input)
load (resistive)  
none 0.002%
0.003%
0.005%

noise FFT noise floor peaks all below –95dBV
(with terminated inputs)

S/N ratio (relative to 1kHz sine wave full level output into 8Ω) 108dB


height

depth
(excluding
connectors)

width
gross
weight
net
weight
8.75” (222 mm) 21.0” (534 mm) 17.5” (445 mm) 133 lbs (60 kg) 121 lbs (55 kg)

idle power consumption 348W
rated power consumption 1056W
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post #6 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Tell us what do you like and dislike about using the 105 or 105D as a pre/ pro? In addition tell us what improvement you would like to see so the OPPO Replace your AVR wink.gif
I had my 105 hooked up to Emotiva XPA-2. Low-end punch was very present and tight - I had to remove paintings from the walls (at Oppo's volume of 100%).
I was using Oppo's XLR outs and silver cables.

Now I am planning to switch to NCore monoblocks as soon as I assemble them - I am curios how they would sound with a straight connection to Oppo .
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post #7 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RouslanB View PostI had my 105 hooked up to Emotiva XPA-2. Low-end punch was very present and tight - I had to remove paintings from the walls (at Oppo's volume of 100%).
What do you mean you had to remove paintings from the wall?  WAS IT TO LOUD?

I was using Oppo's XLR outs and silver cables.  Now I am planning to switch to NCore monoblocks as soon as I assemble them - I am curios how they would sound with a straight connection to Oppo .
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post #8 of 32 Old 03-11-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Check out this white paper (PDF file) posted by OPPO UK. They recommend you use an amp with an input impedance of 47K ohms or greater, which is actually not that unusual for home theater amps:

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/UserFiles/Docs/PDF/BDP-105EU%20Direct%20Power%20Amplifier%20Connection%20V2.pdf

--Bob

Thanks for the info!

It was actually my 95 that I tried hooking straight up, I figured the 105 would be the same.

I tried hooking my 105D straight up today, and it sounds very good, ESP. with asynch DAC and Audirvana direct/integer/upsampling.

Omar
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post #9 of 32 Old 03-12-2014, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

It was VERY LOUD at 100 - to the point pictures on the wall started to vibrate.
Speakers were on spiked platforms with vibro-contol (Vibro-pods).

Promise, I would never do it again biggrin.gif
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post #10 of 32 Old 03-14-2014, 04:00 PM
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bggest problem is the inability to use the trims in dsd mode. it,s great in stereo to my mac amps to n802, but the balance is off in mch.
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-14-2014, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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OPPO BDP-105 rocks as a pre/pro I wish they would include additional functionality such as automated EQ

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post #12 of 32 Old 03-14-2014, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiman View Post

bggest problem is the inability to use the trims in dsd mode. it,s great in stereo to my mac amps to n802, but the balance is off in mch.

I had this problem, then just switched to PCM output. All trims working. Did not notice any loss of resolution, but didn't a/b very much yet. ***NOTE: DSD output is about 6-7 dB louder than PCM. With PCM output, your sound levels will be the same as with all your other multichannel music.

Omar
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

I had this problem, then just switched to PCM output. All trims working. Did not notice any loss of resolution, but didn't a/b very much yet. ***NOTE: DSD output is about 6-7 dB louder than PCM. With PCM output, your sound levels will be the same as with all your other multichannel music.

Omar

I will have to try wink.gif
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

I had this problem, then just switched to PCM output. All trims working. Did not notice any loss of resolution, but didn't a/b very much yet. ***NOTE: DSD output is about 6-7 dB louder than PCM. With PCM output, your sound levels will be the same as with all your other multichannel music.

Omar

Tried it a lot and i like the DSD direct mode better.
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiman View Post

Tried it a lot and i like the DSD direct mode better.

Yes the DSD mode sound fuller to me as well especially straight to the amps biggrin.gif

I finally realized what I was missing with the SSP-800 which unfortunately does not support DSD rolleyes.gif
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 03:23 PM
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wse,

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511029/my-humble-set-up

Very nice components. I'm jealous.

Derogatory terms like "analog bigot", "digiphobe", "internet eggspurts" have nothing to do with electrical engineering.
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SubObjective99 View Post

wse,

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1511029/my-humble-set-up

Very nice components. I'm jealous.

Thank you, it took me a long time and a few sacrifices to get there wink.gif
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 07:39 PM
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^ I just love your speakers and your Classe gear. I have the Classe CA-200 power amp and the CP-50 pre-amp from the 90's and also the B&W 801 Matrix Series III speakers also from the 90's. I still love them all. I guess I'm just an old-school 2-channel man. smile.gif

Derogatory terms like "analog bigot", "digiphobe", "internet eggspurts" have nothing to do with electrical engineering.
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-15-2014, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SubObjective99 View Post

^ I just love your speakers and your Classe gear. I have the Classe CA-200 power amp and the CP-50 pre-amp from the 90's and also the B&W 801 Matrix Series III speakers also from the 90's. I still love them all. I guess I'm just an old-school 2-channel man. smile.gif

Thank you I intend to keep that rig until it goes bust so 15 years would be great biggrin.gif
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-17-2014, 05:33 PM
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I swapped out the receiver for the Oppo 105 as a test, to see if I could stand using it as a pre-processor. My conclusions:

1. It can, in theory, replace a receiver, and it sounds good. Not sure it sounds better than with the receiver in the path though.
2. If you had level of complexity in your home theater setup, this gets old quickly (or at least it did for me)

Setting up the speaker configuration and levels is a bit a pain - the user interface could use improvement. But that is something you do once and forget.

The lack of HDMI inputs is a pain. In my setup (inside a cabinet) I can only use the back port. I hooked up an HDMI switch. Standing up every time I want use the Chromecast or cable or Apple TV gets tiring quickly (and the quality of Netflix on the Oppo105 is poor compared to the Chromecast, by the way - not sure why that is). If you want Amazon VOD you need access to a Roku too, because at this writing the Oppo will not help you there.

Not being able to trigger the the rest of the equipment to turn one when I turn one the Oppo (no trigger out) is a *real* pain (for me).

The absence of composite or component video inputs is a pain. I still watch VHS in my home theater (there is old material that I only have in VHS). And I cannot connect an older camcorder or really anything lacking HDMI.

The volume control/attenuator is ok, but I quickly missed the physical knob on my receiver the first time I had to lower the volume in a hurry. And even hooked up to a Sunfire 400x5, I felt it was not matching the output level the pre produced. Felt like less-than-unity gain.

Not having a way to apply dolby prologic quickly to a source by pressing a button? THAT is a pain. You can, in theory, go back to the main menu and turn on DTS neo 6 for either music or cinema, but it is a slow cumbersome process.

So....

Can it work as pre/pro? Yes if you have only a couple of HDMI connections and make do w/o the conveniences you take for granted in an AV receiver.

Does it sound that much better to warrant doing? Not in my opinion, certainly not with my equipment. I am going back to my receiver as the control center.

PS: Good news are: the DAC kicks butt! Best DAC I have had so far - and that is on lowly 24/96 stuff - I have yet to play the higher def stuff or DSD!! Incredible resolution. And the Darbee processor is worth every penny for video!
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post #21 of 32 Old 03-17-2014, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namikis View Post

I swapped out the receiver for the Oppo 105 as a test, to see if I could stand using it as a pre-processor. My conclusions:

1. It can, in theory, replace a receiver, and it sounds good. Not sure it sounds better than with the receiver in the path though.
For me it does not because I can go direct so the SSP-800 doesn't mucky up the sound
2. If you had level of complexity in your home theater setup, this gets old quickly (or at least it did for me)

Setting up the speaker configuration and levels is a bit a pain - the user interface could use improvement. But that is something you do once and forget.
I didn't think that was a pain the SSP-800 is manual as well, I would rather take my tape measure and my SPL so I know the info is correct the first time
The lack of HDMI inputs is a pain. In my setup (inside a cabinet) I can only use the back port. I hooked up an HDMI switch. Standing up every time I want use the Chromecast or cable or Apple TV gets tiring quickly (and the quality of Netflix on the is very poor compared to teh Chromecast by the way - not sure why that is). If you want Amazon VOD you need access to a Roku too, becasue at this writing the Oppo will not help you there.
I only need one HDMi input so no problem here as well
Not being able to trigger the the rest of the equipment to turn one when I turn one the Oppo (no trigger out) is a *real* pain (for me).
Yes, that would be nice
The absence of composite or component video inputs is a pain. I still watch VHS in my home theater (there is old material that I only have in VHS). And I cannot connect an older camcorder or really anything lacking HDMI.
I have no old equipment I use with this, so I am glad it does"t have S Video or component or FGS composite
The volume control/attenuator is ok, but I quickly missed the physical knob on my receiver the first time I had to lower the volume in a hurry.
The volume is a non issue I set mine at 0, never use the nob on the SSP-800 the remote :)
And not having a way to apply dolby prologic quickly to a source? THAT is a pain. You can, in theory, go back to the main menu and turn on DTS neo 6 for either music or cinema, but it is a slow cumbersome process.
Agreed I miss Dolby ProLogic IIx
So.... Can it work as pre/pro? Yes if you have only a couple of HDMI connections and make do w/o the conveniences you take for granted in an AV receiver.

Does it sound that much better to warrant doing? Not in my opinion. I am going back to my receiver as the control center.
Good for you

If I didn't have the SSP-800 already I probably would not buy it today; mine is 4.5 years old.

 

Maybe I will sell the SSP-800

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post #22 of 32 Old 03-17-2014, 06:33 PM
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Holly molly wse, just spent 20 minutes pouring over pics of your system. Amazing. Congrats on managing to pull together such a great collection of equipment.

I am keeping the Oppo as the pre/pro for a week - it will take an afternoon to reinstall the receiver and work stands in the middle of that.

smile.gif

P
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post #23 of 32 Old 03-17-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Namikis View Post Holly molly wse, just spent 20 minutes pouring over pics of your system. Amazing. Congrats on managing to pull together such a great collection of equipment.  I am keeping the Oppo as the pre/pro for a week - it will take an afternoon to reinstall the receiver and work stands in the middle of that.

smile.gif P

Thank you, I am a music fanatic and love to be surrounded by it  :D

 

This is my point of reference

 

waltDisneyConcertHall.jpg
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"If I didn't have the SSP-800 already I probably would not buy it today; mine is 4.5 years old.

Maybe I will sell the SSP-800.
Why? What a beautiful piece of machinery.

Derogatory terms like "analog bigot", "digiphobe", "internet eggspurts" have nothing to do with electrical engineering.
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post #25 of 32 Old 03-17-2014, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubObjective99 View Post

Why? What a beautiful piece of machinery.

If and when OPPO incorporate some of the features I am looking for I might sell the SSP-800 as it will be redundant and that way I can buy more speakers biggrin.gif I am a speaker man wink.gif
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post #26 of 32 Old 03-18-2014, 01:47 AM
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Well, I hate to go backwards on what I'd said before...but...
I spent about a week using my 105 as a pre amp, then today switched back to my Ayre preamp. No comparison, using a dedicated preamp is better in my system. The 105 as preamp sounded pretty good, until I compared them head to head again.

Omar
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post #27 of 32 Old 04-03-2014, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View PostWell, I hate to go backwards on what I'd said before...but..  I spent about a week using my 105 as a pre amp, then today switched back to my Ayre preamp. No comparison, using a dedicated preamp is better in my system. The 105 as preamp sounded pretty good, until I compared them head to head again. Omar

I sure would hope so with the price of the AYRE !!!!!

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post #28 of 32 Old 04-03-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I sure would hope so with the price of the AYRE !!!!!

Yeah, luckily I was able to get my Ayre pre and amp as dealer demos, or I'd never have been able to afford them. I switched back again this week, to give the OPPO another shot. What I found was, the bass was there, but not as tight, and the highs were slightly muffled, using the 105 as preamp. That having been said, I might not have even thought or noticed that, if I didn't have my Ayre amp to compare with. The 105 certainly didn't sound bad by itself, and I still think it did a better job with sound staging by itself. The Ayre was just so much cleaner and open. I put on a pair of Audio-Technica m50s for validation, and the Ayre sound lined right up with what I was hearing there, too.

I will say this, I wasn't entirely happy with either preamp solution, at first. The Ayre as preamp sounded clean but artificial. Then I turned upsampling off in Audirvana, and the sound cleared right up and became very natural sounding as well as super clean. Anyone using upsampling with their DAC, I recommend disabling it.

Omar
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post #29 of 32 Old 04-08-2014, 10:16 AM
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I'm building a 105/Magnepan theater/multipurpose system. I love the pure sound of the 105 directly to individual amps, but as I'm coming closer to putting everything together and I'm wondering if I shouldn't consider putting a 300wpc integrated between the stereo outs and the front speakers. 300wpc in case I use 3.7 or 3.6 front end. This will provide addional connectivity as well as phono. Or would it be possible to slip a pre amp in line to a large front amp? How are you adding connectivity?

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post #30 of 32 Old 04-09-2014, 11:00 PM
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Personally, I'm running from the 105 to a pre amp, then to an amp. Separates, in other words. Based on the varied responses people are having to this, I recommend trying both ways, yourself. The variables are too many to make a clear prediction of what will sound better for you. You just have to try and put your ear to it. I was going back and forth between preamp, no preamp, and one thing that swung my vote towards preamp was running a good pair of headphones out of the 105 and listening. The sound of the preamp lined up much more strongly with what I heard from the headphones than without preamp.

Omar
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Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player

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