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post #31 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:25 PM
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Hopefully the price will dramatically drop. $4000 for a device that stores and downloads Blu Ray quality material is a bit steep. Considering 4K playback devices and material are coming out, this seems to be a device that missed it's mark by a few years.
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post #32 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Hopefully the price will dramatically drop. $4000 for a device that stores and downloads Blu Ray quality material is a bit steep. Considering 4K playback devices and material are coming out, this seems to be a device that missed it's mark by a few years.

 

The thing is, there is not a lot of variety in the UHD catalog, plus the systems are all proprietary to one brand of TV or another. Also, according to Kaleidescape UHD playback is possible and in fact planned for the future.

 

Personally, I'm hard-pressed to see the benefit of UHD over 1080 at normal viewing distances. A large catalog matters more, and I willingly watch Vudu HDX as well as Blu-ray and find it fully immersive.


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post #33 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:43 PM
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What's the use of ripping the blu ray to the drive if you have to put it in to watch it anyway? Why waste the memory just to skip previews?

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post #34 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BNestico View Post

What's the use of ripping the blu ray to the drive if you have to put it in to watch it anyway? Why waste the memory just to skip previews?

 

You don't have to rip a disc to skip the previews, so you probably would not waste the memory for a one-time viewing. You'd just play it directly.

 

If it was film you wanted in regular rotation, perhaps for a demo reel, you'd probably spend the $1.95 to gain the license to a virtual copy. The company said it also upgrades physical DVDs to virtual Blu-ray for $4.95 per movie.


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post #35 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BNestico View Post

What's the use of ripping the blu ray to the drive if you have to put it in to watch it anyway? Why waste the memory just to skip previews?

I know they make a "disc vault" that holds a few hundred discs. You keep them in there to authenticate that you havent "ripped and returned" a rental and then store it on the server to allow access on any of their players in your home.

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post #36 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:50 PM
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Will the digital copy give you the uncompressed audio?

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post #37 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BNestico View Post

Will the digital copy give you the uncompressed audio?

 

Yes it is the exact same file that you get on disc. I watched The Doors, which I downloaded, and my Pioneer Elite SC-55 said it was receiving 7.1 channel DTS Master HD audio, which is what's specified on the Blu-ray.


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post #38 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

The thing is, there is not a lot of variety in the UHD catalog, plus the systems are all proprietary to one brand of TV or another. Also, according to Kaleidescape UHD playback is possible and in fact planned for the future.

Personally, I'm hard-pressed to see the benefit of UHD over 1080 at normal viewing distances. A large catalog matters more, and I willingly watch Vudu HDX as well as Blu-ray and find it fully immersive.

I agree with you about the hype of UHD. I see no benefit from a normal sitting distance. obviously the Kaleidescape is geared towards high end users. I would imagine they would need to get this device down to around $500 before is would become more accepted. Plus a removable hard drive would be nice so you could swap them out when they become full.
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post #39 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Two things...

You can rip a Blu-ray to the drive, but you have to insert it every time to watch. However, whether you rip the Blu-ray or not you can start watching immediately—no FBI warnings or previews.

Also, for $1.95 you can turn the Blu-ray into a digital copy (as long as it is also in the Kaleidescape store) and eliminate the need to put the disc in to watch.


So the consumer still pays close to $2 per bluray to store the digital copy of the bluray collection he already owns, and provided they are in the Kaleidescape store after spending thousands on the player itself, just to get the convenience of not inserting the disc. Hmm not good but not bad either. I wonder if it stores and plays 3D blurays also?
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post #40 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 01:49 PM
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I just can't see how this thing cost $4000. I don't see that being a justifiable about for this at all not even close. Maybe $400. You spend $4000 but you still have to pay $2.00 a flick just to upload your current collection. That would cost me $200 just for digital copies of discs I already own, provided the disc did come with a digital copy. I just don't see the point.

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post #41 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Hopefully the price will dramatically drop. $4000 for a device that stores and downloads Blu Ray quality material is a bit steep. Considering 4K playback devices and material are coming out, this seems to be a device that missed it's mark by a few years.

I believe Kaleidescape has had this player (or a similar model) on the market for a couple years already, so it's not quite as far behind the times as it seems.  However, if you were looking to purchase one now, I would definitely want a little more information on their future upgrade plans as noted in my previous post.

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post #42 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 02:50 PM
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$4000?!?!?

That's mental expensive. Would be a $10k investment in New Zealand.

Bugger that.
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post #43 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post

I believe Kaleidescape has had this player (or a similar model) on the market for a couple years already, so it's not quite as far behind the times as it seems.  However, if you were looking to purchase one now, I would definitely want a little more information on their future upgrade plans as noted in my previous post.

Yes, the Cinema One has been around for a few years. I have one in addition to some players in other rooms and it works as advertised. However I was surprised when they announced this as the premiere Cinema One since it looked slightly different from mine but had the same name. One thing that was different in the description was the ability to stack two players to double the storage space. I immediately contacted my dealer to see if I could add that to mine and he advised me that my Cinema One was not compatible with this Cinema One. Needless to say I was more than a little upset and made a vow not to spend any additional money with Kaleidescape if that's how they are going to treat their legacy purchasers. So I continue to use what I have but I'm not adding any more storage or players until or unless they will upgrade those of us who invested early.Thanks for the opportunity to give a little rant.
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post #44 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 03:34 PM
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I attended a presentation at my local high end store. I asked the 3D question. The answer was that it is not currently supported & the have no plans to support it. They are directing resources to UHD at the moment.

Nothing in this posting/signature really means anything in the long run.
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post #45 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 03:49 PM
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This is a luxury device for luxury movie buffs who love to have the feeling of browsable blu-ray libraries. They dont sell mass quantities so their pricing is the only way they make
a buck.

The debate about how much it costs is almost pointless. Most of us would pay less going to the dollar theater instead of buying any home equipment. These cost arguments simply get old.

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post #46 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 04:32 PM
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How can the cost argument get old? That's really the driving point of all this conversation. If it cost $400-$500 this wouldn't be so hotly debated and would probably be in the homes of a lot more people. This kind of thing shouldn't cost this much money.

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post #47 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 04:39 PM
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Many of the questions asked already and some that will likely be asked in the future can be answered by going thru Kaleidescape's official website.

http://kaleidescape.com/experience/

 

Some of the videos actually give you a pretty good idea of how the system works from the user's perspective.  I don't own one, but I had actually heard about them about a year ago (I think it was when I was researching Roomie Remote, iRule, and various universal remote options).  I believe the justification for the price comes not only from the convenience factor of having your movie library stored digitally in true blu-ray quality but also from the quality of the user interface and the scalability of the system.  A person could build a DIY media server for a lot less but (from what I have seen), unless you really know what you are doing on the software setup side, you would be hard-pressed to beat the combination of ease of use and the feature-rich user interface that is included in a Kaleidescape system.  I've kind of been using their UI as a sort of template for some of the features I have tried to incorporate into my own media server setup.  This is a big part of why Mark's experiment here is so intriguing to me.  I've never had actual first-hand experience with one of their players and this is probably as close as I will get.

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post #48 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 04:52 PM
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They mention the Middle Atlantic rack shelves and Crestron/Control4 IP control. Clearly aimed at the high-end market, even if they are a lot cheaper than the whole system.

What is the pricing on these things? Is it purchase only or is there a rental option?

How long do they take to download? Can you stream the movie while other stuff loads in, or is it set up more like an ISO where you have to download 40GB before you can watch anything?
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post #49 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 04:54 PM
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1) I'm wondering what happens when Kaleidescape goes out of business. Do you lose all your movies and the hardware investment? Is it a brick? Can you still watch your movies? What about when the internet is down, can you still watch your movies?

2) Can you add external storage?

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post #50 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 04:58 PM
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Of course prior kaleidascape stuff was around 20-40k if im not mistaken... So at this price it is arguably cheap. The nuisance of htpc and the problems with integration are issues i have already been through and the user experience was not even close to what home automation offers.

In general the home automation market is only recently becoming even close to reasonable in price. Kaleidascape is just one part of that market.

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post #51 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadEd View Post

1) I'm wondering what happens when Kaleidescape goes out of business. Do you lose all your movies and the hardware investment? Is it a brick? Can you still watch your movies? What about when the internet is down, can you still watch your movies?

2) Can you add external storage?

Agree with DeadEd's question. What happens if the company goes away?
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post #52 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 10:57 PM
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Lets put pricing aside for 1 minute and the system is what all HTPC/Media player people want. A seamless interface that just works and works well. What I have an issue with is the limited amount of storage in the box and if you rip a movie to the unit I believe you still need to feed it the disc (I could be wrong here but I doubt it). From memory the unit has 2TB of storage and this is not good enough even if it was 4TB its not good enough. I have over 16TB of movie rips of 450+ blurays that I own - not interested in the 20K+ expenditure of a full kaleidescape system either.

If they built a head unit that allowed standard off the shelf NAS/SAN technology to be added to their units I would buy it for $4K.
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post #53 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 11:14 PM
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I agree that the most interesting aspect of Kaleidescape to me is the interface for interacting with your Blu Ray collection and would love it in a standalone unit accessing NAS storage or something similar. Is there a similar front end currently for HTPC setups?
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post #54 of 187 Old 03-27-2014, 11:18 PM
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There are plenty out there - I use mymovies to rip my collection but not to play it as I have yet to put my toe in the water with a HTPC - The Cinema One is the perfect front end no windows OS to worry about and it will/does just work. If they want to move more kit make it more "open source" friendly to external disk storage.
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post #55 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 12:02 AM
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I could swear that they have hdd racks to expand storage on their systems but I could be wrong....

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post #56 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 12:16 AM
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They do have you seen the cost of them? 2TB drives and you need to sell your kidneys to populate their racks...............
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post #57 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNestico View Post

How can the cost argument get old? That's really the driving point of all this conversation. If it cost $400-$500 this wouldn't be so hotly debated and would probably be in the homes of a lot more people. This kind of thing shouldn't cost this much money.
And they all would be complaining about having to put the disc in the machine.

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post #58 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 02:47 AM
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I dont know for $4k I could build a better system minus the access to downloadable Blu-Rays, shoot I could build a better system for half the price and have more function and less limitations again minus certain access to content like downloadable blurays but with the money I saved I could buy the physical media or uses other sources. ^^;; Still a neat system just dont dig the price. .

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post #59 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 05:12 AM
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I just guess I haven't gotten to the point in my life yet where pulling a case off the shelf, taking the disc out, and putting it in my PS3 is such a strenuous hassle that I'm willing to spend this kind of money to remove that part of the equation.
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post #60 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNestico View Post

I just guess I haven't gotten to the point in my life yet where pulling a case off the shelf, taking the disc out, and putting it in my PS3 is such a strenuous hassle that I'm willing to spend this kind of money to remove that part of the equation.

Exactly, those that obsess about these things have different priorities.

I don't obsess about fine art too much, so spending $100k on a painting isnt my thing. I am glad somebody does... These aren't commodity items but I do understand that many years of painting experience has to net the artist some cash at some point.

I like wealth redistribution while buying the products that you love. Its the best way to support your needs and keep artists, engineers, designers, etc in business. Even communists like james cameron don't mind making millions/billions on movies (which customers cause "global warming" to see) and then accuse exxon/mobil of ruining the earth.

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