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post #61 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post


Exactly, those that obsess about these things have different priorities.

I don't obsess about fine art too much, so spending $100k on a painting isnt my thing. I am glad somebody does... These aren't commodity items but I do understand that many years of painting experience has to net the artist some cash at some point.

I like wealth redistribution while buying the products that you love. Its the best way to support your needs and keep artists, engineers, designers, etc in business. Even communists like james cameron don't mind making millions/billions on movies (which customers cause "global warming" to see) and then accuse exxon/mobil of ruining the earth.

 

I also think of it like flying. Everyone gets on the same airplane and goes to the same place, but some passengers are willing to pay a lot more for business or first class to gain relatively small niceties—including reduced wait times.


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post #62 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 05:29 AM
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@imagic correct me if I'm wrong but I think there is a white glove aspect to their units. They can detect a failing drive and get a replacement installed.

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post #63 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 05:51 AM
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Kaleidescape has many advantages over a home server, but to me the biggest is that it is the only legal way to rip BD to a HD that I am aware of. Many of the disadvantages that K imposes like having the disc in the player or the vault are there to keep them out of legal trouble DVD brought them.


I am glad to see their pricing drop, but the limited number of movies that this player can house is what will keep me at bay.


I can’t complain about their pricing, I can only speculate on why they would not want to enter into mainstream, but here is one thought. At $400, I would think a lot of people would not only buy this player, but they would be willing to modify it. In other words, hack the player to not require the disc to be present, add additional storage, etc. At $4k, I think a lot of folks are going to be more reluctant to risk doing this.


From my understanding, K has great support as well. That is not cheap, especially when you hit mass markets. They still have higher end products they need to provide support for, but now they get flooded with calls from $400 players, I would not want that.
This is all speculation on my end, but I am sure they have plenty of their own reasons why they are priced where they are.
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post #64 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary16 View Post

... I immediately contacted my dealer to see if I could add that to mine and he advised me that my Cinema One was not compatible with this Cinema One. Needless to say I was more than a little upset and made a vow not to spend any additional money with Kaleidescape if that's how they are going to treat their legacy purchasers. So I continue to use what I have but I'm not adding any more storage or players until or unless they will upgrade those of us who invested early.Thanks for the opportunity to give a little rant.

This new Cinema One (2nd Gen) is part of a different product line for Kaleidescape (the "Cinema Series") and is not compatible with their prior line (the "Premiere Line"). You have an original Cinema One -- yes, the use of the same name is unfortunate -- and you are correct that you cannot expand your system by adding a new Cinema One to it. However, you can expand your system by adding a 1U or 3U server along with as many players and vaults that you want/can afford.

The Cinema Series is limited (at the moment, anyway) to two Cinema Ones and one vault.

On the other hand, if you really do want to move over to the Cinema line, there is a trade-up program that offers a discounted Cinema One (2nd gen) in exchange for your 1st gen Cinema One. Contact your dealer for details.
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post #65 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Day 1 (continued)
 
I just finished my first Blu-ray movie download—The Doors—a 48GB file that took about 2.5 hours over my 105 Mbps Comcast Internet connection.

Day 2


I downloaded a total of four Blu-ray titles last night—160GB total in about six hours. In addition to The Doors, I also downloaded The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug. I was surprised that I could, since the Blu-ray release date for that movie is April 8.



 


Does Comcast still cap how much you can download, and how will this affect your usage of downloading content from the Kaleidescape servers?

Like you, I'm fortunate enough to have a fast internet connection with FiOS (75/35) and also have the ability to pay the cutrate price of an additional $215/mo to get 500Mbps/100Mbps at my house. However, most people have internet speeds around the 25-50 range for various reasons (faster service not available, faster service is expensive...), and an average download (assuming 40GB) will take 5-10 hours over these connections. This is a long time for an internet hiccup to occur and the download to stop. If this happens, does the download resume where it left off or does it start from square one? I know many people will be very upset if after waiting 9 hours, the download stopped and have to start over. Or worse the file won't work and you have to re-download it again for another 9 hours.

Aside from the steep entry price, I think the large downloads (from both a data cap and download speed standpoint) and the ability to resume stopped downloads are both hurdles that needs to be addressed before this becomes more widely adopted and prices to drop.

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post #66 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 06:39 AM
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1) I'm wondering what happens when Kaleidescape goes out of business. Do you lose all your movies and the hardware investment? Is it a brick? Can you still watch your movies? What about when the internet is down, can you still watch your movies?

If the sytem is not connected to the internet, it is still fully functional. You can still play content (either imported or from disc). Movies that are already downloaded from the store will still play. With no internet connection, the system would no longer get movie/music guide updates (that's what allows the system to recognise new movies/albums and provide all of the metadata for them) or system updates.

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2) Can you add external storage?

Not at this time.
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post #67 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pioneer_Elte View Post

{snip}... This is a long time for an internet hiccup to occur and the download to stop. If this happens, does the download resume where it left off or does it start from square one? I know many people will be very upset if after waiting 9 hours, the download stopped and have to start over. Or worse the file won't work and you have to re-download it again for another 9 hours.

Interrupted downloads will resume from where they left off whether it be due to an internet outage, a system reboot or the user simply re-ordering their download queue in the store.
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post #68 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 07:35 AM
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I understand why some of you are saying that the cost is outrageous. I can't say that I disagree with you but this is a plug and play product that you pretty much cant get anywhere else. You can make a system of your own but that takes ALOT of tinkering to get just right....

If you really want something like this but have no interest in tinkering or building your own computer this is really something to consider...atleast if you can afford it...
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post #69 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTVJunkie View Post


This new Cinema One (2nd Gen) is part of a different product line for Kaleidescape (the "Cinema Series") and is not compatible with their prior line (the "Premiere Line"). You have an original Cinema One -- yes, the use of the same name is unfortunate -- and you are correct that you cannot expand your system by adding a new Cinema One to it. However, you can expand your system by adding a 1U or 3U server along with as many players and vaults that you want/can afford.

The Cinema Series is limited (at the moment, anyway) to two Cinema Ones and one vault.

On the other hand, if you really do want to move over to the Cinema line, there is a trade-up program that offers a discounted Cinema One (2nd gen) in exchange for your 1st gen Cinema One. Contact your dealer for details.

Thanks for the reply. You would think Kaleidescape or my dealer would have notified me about the upgrade program. The problem with adding the 1U or 3U servers is that, last time I checked, they were considerably more expensive than adding a second Cinema One. And, yes, keeping the same name was indeed unfortunate. Had they introduced this player with a different name I wouldn't have felt overlooked. I will check into the upgrade program. I assume there's a way to transfer all of your currently stored movies?
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post #70 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary16 View Post

I will check into the upgrade program. I assume there's a way to transfer all of your currently stored movies?

There is. The way that the upgrade program works is as follows:
  1. You take delivery of the new Cinema One (2nd Gen).
  2. You (or your dealer) replicates the content from your old system to the new one (it is much easier than it sounds. A couple of clicks on a browser interface page and replication starts).
  3. Once replication completes, you send your old Cinema One (1st Gen) back to Kaleidescape.
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post #71 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 09:33 AM
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Good morning Gary.

 

Thank you for your comments and for your support. In your post you wrote that you were “surprised when they announced this as the premiere Cinema One.” I think this may have been the source of confusion. Your existing Cinema One and players are part of our Premier Line of products. The second generation Cinema One was launched as the first product available in our Cinema Line of products. The two product lines are not directly compatible, but we’ve always offered generous trade-up and cross-grade opportunities that allow our customers to enjoy the latest technologies. We want customers for life, and by offering these types of programs, we allow our customers to stay current as we continue to innovate and improve our products.

 

Please PM me so we can set up a time to discuss which of our options will be best for you.

 

Best regards,

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post #72 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 11:14 AM
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I've been building and tweaking HTPC's for over a decade now, I've got a small 6 TB unRaid server, which I know I'm going to have to upgrade in the near future. The amount of hours I've spent (somewhat wasted) on tweaking servers and PC's (Media Center, MyMovies, codecs, etc.) make this new Kaleidescape unit very attractive, even at $4000, as labor really isn't free.

If I were to build a new server and a new "Player" I'd probably end up spending close to $1000-$1500. If I were to spend more than a day or two configuring and setting up the server software and the "Player" software, I'd be reaching a point where the $4,000, while steep, makes much more sense.
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post #73 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mntneer View Post

I've been building and tweaking HTPC's for over a decade now, I've got a small 6 TB unRaid server, which I know I'm going to have to upgrade in the near future. The amount of hours I've spent (somewhat wasted) on tweaking servers and PC's (Media Center, MyMovies, codecs, etc.) make this new Kaleidescape unit very attractive, even at $4000, as labor really isn't free.

If I were to build a new server and a new "Player" I'd probably end up spending close to $1000-$1500. If I were to spend more than a day or two configuring and setting up the server software and the "Player" software, I'd be reaching a point where the $4,000, while steep, makes much more sense.

WOW what do you charge? $300 an hour??? o.O seriously I am all for believing ones time is valuable but dang...

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post #74 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 11:49 AM
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Henry ford realized long ago that mass adoption and economies of scale with mass production will bring cost down and give more benefits to the customer. We are used to that pricing model in most things we buy.

The kaleidascape is a non-commodity, low volume, "want item". It is not a need item. They also likely price-in issues with hard-drives and whatnot which is what has always made HTPC a nightmare.

I don't think kaleidascape has enough space on it for the price though... That's my gripe. For $4k i would probabaly want to be able to put about 400 movies on it. Really though, the target customers are video buffs that obsess a bit about collecting movies... They wont be satisfied unless they hit at least a thousand movies? I would guess that a 1000 movies covers over 90% of potential mass market buyers...

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post #75 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I downloaded a total of four Blu-ray titles last night—160GB total in about six hours.

That's over half of my ISP's monthly data allowance in one night. Think I'll stick with my Blu-Rays, HTPC and 10 TB NAS.

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post #76 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 02:02 PM
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This sounds great at this price point,and ease of use. Though I currently have a htpc with over 16tb of storage, but it hates me and my family!


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post #77 of 187 Old 03-28-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Does this allow "ripping" of my own blu-ray into the Cinema one player, or blu-ray download is the only way I got a blu-ray copy to it?



You can directly import a BR disc to the C1 (versus a download import), BUT, to play that movie back requires the physical disc to be in either the C1's internal drive, or an external Vault (DV700, holds 320 BR discs). This is a requirement imposed by the BR folks. If you download the BR movie from K's Store, the physical disk is not needed for playback (obviously).


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post #78 of 187 Old 03-29-2014, 04:08 AM
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Wow! $4000.00:eek: I bet the movie industry really charged some big time license's fee's, which i can understand. I really like this concept alot but they really got to figure something out like a way to identify Disc's somehow to prevent people who have not bought the Disc from uploading
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post #79 of 187 Old 03-29-2014, 08:40 PM
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I was just wondering if the movie has a digital copy that I paid 2 bucks for, when I watch it in the future is it going to pull it from the cloud or burn it directly onto the hard drive. How many movies, digital copies or otherwise can this cinema one store?
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post #80 of 187 Old 03-30-2014, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by paultimm View Post

I was just wondering if the movie has a digital copy that I paid 2 bucks for, when I watch it in the future is it going to pull it from the cloud or burn it directly onto the hard drive. How many movies, digital copies or otherwise can this cinema one store?

 

It stores about 100 Blu-rays or about 400 DVDs. If you buy the digital copy and keep the download on the hard drive, that's where it plays from. If you delete the file to make room for another movie, it requires another download to watch that movie again.


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post #81 of 187 Old 03-30-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Of course prior kaleidascape stuff was around 20-40k if im not mistaken... So at this price it is arguably cheap. The nuisance of htpc and the problems with integration are issues i have already been through and the user experience was not even close to what home automation offers.

In general the home automation market is only recently becoming even close to reasonable in price. Kaleidascape is just one part of that market.

The whole full Blu-Ray download is interesting, and unique, but their previous system of just storing DVDs and Blu-Rays is an extreme luxury product. It doesn't really do anything that a $100 Ikea shelf with those same Blu-Rays and DVDs placed on doesn't do. And even the blu-ray downloading part gets you extras. The movie itself can be streamed in blu-ray quality from VUDU HDX for $6 per rental on a <$99 Roku.
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I just guess I haven't gotten to the point in my life yet where pulling a case off the shelf, taking the disc out, and putting it in my PS3 is such a strenuous hassle that I'm willing to spend this kind of money to remove that part of the equation.

Exactly. It takes orders of magnitude more time and effort to set something up to store them all than you will ever save walking from your couch to the shelf to the blu-ray player and back. Plus, you probably have to get up anyways to get snacks or use the bathroom.
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post #82 of 187 Old 03-30-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

 The movie itself can be streamed in blu-ray quality from VUDU HDX for $6 per rental on a <$99 Roku.

VUDU HDX may be good but it is not Blu-Ray quality video or audio.  But for many the cost of that solution would outweigh the loss in quality.

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post #83 of 187 Old 03-30-2014, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post
 

VUDU HDX may be good but it is not Blu-Ray quality video or audio.  But for many the cost of that solution would outweigh the loss in quality.

 

I was a big fan of Vudu HDX but recently—including this past weekend—it was a nightmare of buffering and otherwise interrupted streaming. Lately, Vudu HDX has proven less reliable than any other method I use to watch movies.

 

I also find the quality gap between Blu-ray and Vudu is quite large, even on a 55-inch Vizio and especially on a front projection setup. Since Ultraviolet copies come with many Blu-rays these days and the cost of purchase is the same, I'd rather buy the Blu-ray copy. The main advantage of Vudu HDX—to me—is the early digital release. I was surprised to see that the Kaleidescape store also allows downloads of the HD (Blu-ray) version of many  movies as an early digital release.


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post #84 of 187 Old 03-30-2014, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I was a big fan of Vudu HDX but recently—including this past weekend—it was a nightmare of buffering and otherwise interrupted streaming. Lately, Vudu HDX has proven less reliable than any other method I use to watch movies.

I also find the quality gap between Blu-ray and Vudu is quite large, even on a 55-inch Vizio and especially on a front projection setup. Since Ultraviolet copies come with many Blu-rays these days and the cost of purchase is the same, I'd rather buy the Blu-ray copy. The main advantage of Vudu HDX—to me—is the early digital release. I was surprised to see that the Kaleidescape store also allows downloads of the HD (Blu-ray) version of many  movies as an early digital release.

That's interesting that it was having issues... hopefully just an isolated issue, but if it's not that could be a big problem for them...

VUDU HDX is visually equivalent to Blu-Ray. Aren't the early releases purchase only? Purchases make no sense on a digital platform, and in most cases, don't even make sense in a physical format...
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post #85 of 187 Old 03-30-2014, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post


That's interesting that it was having issues... hopefully just an isolated issue, but if it's not that could be a big problem for them...

VUDU HDX is visually equivalent to Blu-Ray. Aren't the early releases purchase only? Purchases make no sense on a digital platform, and in most cases, don't even make sense in a physical format...

 

Based on my experience, Vudu HDX is not at all visually equivalent to Blu-ray. It is adequate, sufficient, convenient, an acceptable substitute—but not equivalent.
 
If Vudu cannot guarantee reliable streaming it will hurt the brand, no question.
 
I don't mind purchasing movies; it's a rather small expense in the grand scheme of things. It all depends on what you want out of the transaction. That said, Vudu has a lot of great classic movies for rent in HDX format, and I love that aspect of the service.

 

Ideally, I want cloud-based delivery of Blu-ray (or better) quality visuals and sound released as early as possible.
 
One thing I am sure of—I find DVDs to be almost unwatchable.


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post #86 of 187 Old 03-31-2014, 07:33 AM
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Slightly off topic...

Mark you mentioned UV copies a couple posts above.

I had to reformat my hard drive the other day because I was having some really bad problems with my computer.

I went to redownload my UV copies and it says that I can't anymore because it has expired even though I got it a long time ago....is there anyway that you know that I can solve this issue?

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #87 of 187 Old 03-31-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

The movie itself can be streamed in blu-ray quality from VUDU HDX for $6 per rental on a <$99 Roku.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

VUDU HDX is visually equivalent to Blu-Ray. Aren't the early releases purchase only? Purchases make no sense on a digital platform, and in most cases, don't even make sense in a physical format...

Yikes, I feel like I stumbled on a streaming video talking points memo...lets be clear here, streaming is in no way a substitute for physical media. Its an alternative. Even if you leave out quality, there are capacity issues (buffering), and many run into bandwidth caps.

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post #88 of 187 Old 03-31-2014, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

Slightly off topic...

Mark you mentioned UV copies a couple posts above.

I had to reformat my hard drive the other day because I was having some really bad problems with my computer.

I went to redownload my UV copies and it says that I can't anymore because it has expired even though I got it a long time ago....is there anyway that you know that I can solve this issue?

 

Your registered UV copies never expire, but the codes you use to get them do. Your UV purchases ought to be accessible through your account, if that's not working you probably have a customer service issue. You should log in to https://uvvu.com/ and check to see if you have multiple libraries that need to be merged.

 

The main thing is, once you register a title with UV that license does not expire; there should be a way to get those titles back.

It's not entirely off topic. I asked Kaleidescape what would happen to Blu-rays bought as downloads from the online store. Kaleidescape said the files fall under UV licensing, so you still have the digital rights to the movie if you buy it from them. Of course kaleidescape markets it as UV for viewing movies on portable devices and what not, but the underlying UV license is for the movie itself. So, if Kaleidescape disappeared for some reason, your collection would not.


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post #89 of 187 Old 03-31-2014, 08:37 AM
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I think that might be my issue.

As I have been digging it looks like it wasnt UV copies but WB-Digital copies.

Looks like I might have been wrong too and that I dont have a UV account...even though I thought I did. I am going to keep trying to see if I can get it working again.

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post #90 of 187 Old 03-31-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

I think that might be my issue.

As I have been digging it looks like it wasnt UV copies but WB-Digital copies.

Looks like I might have been wrong too and that I dont have a UV account...even though I thought I did. I am going to keep trying to see if I can get it working again.


What application were you using to play your digital copies before you had to reformat your hard drive?  Vudu, Flixster, iTunes, etc.?

 

Most Warner Brothers films redemption codes included with DVD/Blu-Ray combo packs are Ultraviolet-only (no iTunes digital copy) and the leaflet with the code typically instructs you to redeem it from Flixster.com.  You are required to set up an account on Ultraviolet's website (UVVU.com) in order to create a library with Vudu, Flixster, or any of the other participating Ultraviolet retailers and link the two accounts.  So, if you were using Flixster, Vudu, or one of the other Ultraviolet retailers then you definitely have an Ultraviolet account/library.

 

Any time you want to enable a new device (including PC's) to access your Ultraviolet library, you first need to choose what application you intend to use for playback.  If you choose an application for which you already have an existing account then it is as simple as installing said app on the device and logging into your existing account with said retailer, at which point it will ask you if you want to enable this device.  Note: there is a limit on the number of devices (including PC's) which can access your account.  If, on the other hand, you want to use a different app/retailer then you would have the extra step of having to link your new account with said retailer to your existing Ultraviolet account.  Once you have installed the app, signed in to your account with said app, linked this account with your Ultraviolet account, and enabled the device, you should be able to update the library on that device to match the library you have on UVVU.com.

 

If you reformatted your hard drive, there is a chance that whatever app you were using and Ultraviolet will see your computer as a new device.  So, you would have to re-enable it to access your existing account.  If this is the case then, once your computer is correctly accessing your library again, you may want to check to see how many devices you have enabled on your Ultraviolet account.  If it shows 2 PC's on there (one being the current PC, the other being the same PC before you reformatted the hard drive) then you may want to disable the old device.

 

Also note that the Ultraviolet digital copies you own are tied to your account.  So, if you mistakenly set up a new account rather than signing in with your existing account then, naturally, none of your movies will be there.  It is important that you do not forget your username.  If you remember your username, but forgot your password, you can reset/recover your password.  Typically they will send an email to whatever email address you entered when you originally created the account if you click on the "forgot password" link provided you enter the correct username.  If you forget your username then you are pretty much screwed.

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