Official Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player Owner's Thread - Page 203 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6061 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post
That is odd...I don't suppose there is a particular setting you must use on the TV when inputting a 4K/60 HDR signal, is there? Are you able to play 4K content through the apps? If you are, there may be something wrong with the UHD disc itself.
No, no particular setting for 4K. The K8500's menu plays just fine, and that's in 4K/60p. Playing a regular Blu-Ray and letting the K8500 upscale it to 4K plays just fine. Playing the 4K Blu-Ray and forcing the K8500 to output 1080p works fine. Just playing the 4K Blu-Ray in 4K seems to be the problem. I have Deadpool coming today, and I'll try that. Have problems with the 4K discs themselves been prevalent?

I've also played 4K video from my Roku 4, which had no problem sending it to my TV, even through the receiver. I switched the Roku back to 1080 though, because my internet is barely fast enough to play 4K. The first few minutes of Mad Dogs was breathtaking though.
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post #6062 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jbelluccirx View Post
I have the Samsung player and a new 75" Sony 940D. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on an issue I've been experiencing. While starting up a Ultra HD disc there is usually a pause on the part of the tv to recognize its an HDR signal and then the picture will display. Occasionally though the player seems to want and try and put the tv in 24hz mode, which will display no picture at all, only sound. If I then stop the disc and attempt to replay it then it throws it into HDR 4K and everything plays fine. I have everything running through a Denon X6200 and my hdmi input on my tv has been switched to enhanced. I was wondering if anyone had heard of this issue and if there were any suggestions on how to fix it. Also, should I expect to be getting 24hz playback with this setup?
IIRC, my player always puts my TV into 24Hz mode for UHD playback. Sounds like your TV isn't configured/isn't allowing this setting (although others in this thread have the Sony).

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post #6063 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DMamper View Post
Hey everyone. Just recieved my K8500. I watched Exodus and The Martian. Both HDR movies.

Inmitally a bit dissapointed. As they are both fake 4k movies so the resolution and sharpness is not actually better but worse than the best 4k streams im used to watching on netfliks, amazon and youtube.

HDR wise i cant actually see much difference between HDR and the bluray version.

What is obvious is the slightly washed out dark details and blacks. Thats definately dissapointing. So i would like to ask, how can i disable HDR. Forced upon us is annoying. I know HDR would be great on a 2016 OLED. But on my x940c the blacks suffer.

What i am impressed with UHD versions is the lack of motion artifacts in fights and high speed motion. Where as the normal bluray version can look really badly compressed in such scenes.

Another dissapointment for me was the Martain in fake 4k is nowjere as good as watching it in 3D.
First off if your blacks are suffering this is usually indicative of attempting to play HDR content on a non compatible display. Since the 940C seems to be HDR compatible based on my quick google search I would speculate that there is something wrong in your setup. Either settings on the player/display or a combination of both. I'm not familiar with your sets HDR related settings sorry. I'm sure someone else can help with that.

I will also say that if you feel THE SAME CONTENT viewed on a 4K streaming service is sharper than its Ultra HD Bluray counterpart I would have to say I find that very surprising. You have to compare apples to apples, by this I mean the same movie under the same conditions with the same picture settings (calibrated if possible). Any other comparison to other content is meaningless. Every film/video/documentary is created by different people who have varying degrees of skill and different views on how they want their content to look once released to consumers. Not all content is filmed and shot with the sole purpose of being very bright/high contrast/ultra sharp with everything in focus. Your right that there are a lot of high quality streaming videos and movies that can be almost demo worthy (I like time laps photography). Im sure if you could view this content on Ultra HD Bluray the difference would be significant.

The theory behind HDR and WCG is basic and when done properly through the whole signal train it will most definitely wow anyone who see's it.

My personal favorites right now are Life of Pi and Lego Movie and the revenant

Here are a couple of things to keep in mind about HDR (for comparison to SDR) if you would like to indulge me. Most of this is mentioned or covered in some way during the interview with Joe Kane.

2. HDR10 uses a new form of gamma or Electro Optical Transfer Function known as ST2084. This EOTF was designed for DARK ROOM viewing. Most of the video information within HDR10 exists from 0-100 NIT. Many people have become accustomed to viewing standard dynamic range material during the years past with a less than desirable gamma setting and higher than recommended light output in viewing conditions other than dark room. If HDR in its current form is viewed in a moderate to bright room the effect of the spectral highlights will not be able to overcome ambient light enough to have the impact intended. Some owners use the dynamic contrast settings to overcome this feeling. I believe this results in an inaccurate image but I have no tests or data to prove this at the moment so for now its to each their own.

3. The vast majority of colors created in nature exist within the Rec709 color space. Most of whats beyond that are man made. With the biggest exception being parts of green (color volume which relates to luminance is a separate thing). How much you notice the expanded color are going to be very content specific and may be subtle. Not to mention many people who prefer setting their display to a "preference" picture vs. a "reference" picture and are used to viewing over saturated and inaccurate colors may notice a smaller difference.

4. Luminance and Chromaticity (ST2086) - Right now luminance and tone mapping are done based on STATIC metadata. This means that the display takes into account the widest color gamut and the brightest scene within the content (the whole movie) and remaps based on that. The majority of the content will have a greater compression of dynamic range and color gamut than would be necessary based on the displays capabilities. HDR10 will one day be capable of scene by scene DYNAMIC metadata. Samsung recently showed a demo of a 2016 model display utilizing this feature. Dolby Visions system already does this. I don't know if this will require a hardware update, software update, or both. As always it will be at the manufactures discretion if and when certain products receive updates.
Agree 100%. Excellent
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post #6064 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelluccirx View Post
I have the Samsung player and a new 75" Sony 940D. I was wondering if I could get some feedback on an issue I've been experiencing. While starting up a Ultra HD disc there is usually a pause on the part of the tv to recognize its an HDR signal and then the picture will display. Occasionally though the player seems to want and try and put the tv in 24hz mode, which will display no picture at all, only sound. If I then stop the disc and attempt to replay it then it throws it into HDR 4K and everything plays fine. I have everything running through a Denon X6200 and my hdmi input on my tv has been switched to enhanced. I was wondering if anyone had heard of this issue and if there were any suggestions on how to fix it. Also, should I expect to be getting 24hz playback with this setup?
IIRC, my player always puts my TV into 24Hz mode for UHD playback. Sounds like your TV isn't configured/isn't allowing this setting (although others in this thread have the Sony).

I'm thinking it may be an hdcp hdmi handshake issue with the receiver (although it shouldn't be), as a previous response suggested. I'm going to try and run two hdmi (one for audio and one for video) later tonight to see if that works?
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post #6065 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
Was pleasantly surprised to find the USB port on this player had enough "juice" to spin-up and play my Western Digital Passport external hard-drive. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise since it's supposed to support external download services (if/when they ever happen). The USB port on my AVR (and most AVRs I tried before buying mine) can't spin-up external hard-drives, which means I have to play music (and other) content off of a flash drive (which is easy to conceal behind the front-panel door on AVRs).
Wondering if the USB is only hot when unit is powered on?
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post #6066 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
Darin...try unplugging the player for 5 minutes or so. Also, try booting it up with the HDMI cable unplugged, then shut it down, plug the HDMI cable back in and see if it can reset the EDID. Not 100% certain that will work, but worth a shot.
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Reset to factory settings is by holding the stop button on the player (square), not the remote for five seconds. There must be no disc in the tray. You should get a message onscreen that the reset is taking place. You will lose any passwords you have entered for wireless networks and Samsung account and have to re-enter those. I cannot recall if you have to do it with player switched on or on standby but think it was on.
Thanks. I had tried unplugging it for hours and booting with the HDMI connected. I was also using the stop button on the player with no disc in it at the time, as the Samsung instructions state.

I may need to call Samsung.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #6067 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 05:16 PM
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Just had a quick question about using bdwise- should I set that for both the player and the tv? I have a UN75HU8550 with SEK 3500. Will that give me the best UHD HDR picture?
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post #6068 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 05:43 PM
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I think ive resolved the HDR issue. I knew my settings on both the player and the TV ports were correct.

What i found was unexpected. I went into the picture settings and while in HDR mode, reset the setting. To my suprise the x940c option exactly says, "Reset (HDR Video Vivid)". I thought vivid was very strange?

I did the reset and then reduced black level from 50 to 48. Then set the clarity to sharpness 50, RC to manual at 30 and turned off all noise reduction.

Played the standard blur ray and then the 4K bluray over and over. But this time i could see very clearly the HDR picture looks clearly better than standard in terms of sheer brightness and pop. Has a distinct shimmer to the bright scenes when compared to standard.

Exodus, the whites where lovely and super bright yet the black levels still look very good. Ok the blacks are not as dark as standard bluray but still very good. The gold armour of Ramus looks fabulous and sparkles in such a way that it simply does not in standard mode.

In very happy and now i "get" HDR. It gives images a life like sparkle and skies greater luminance without killing details in the rest of the image.

Ok its not a night and day difference and i dont think most people will notice any difference if they were not told the image is HDR.its the kind of difference you only notice with testing and becuase you know to look for it. As ggenerally the x940c has a "HDR" effect due to its extended dynamtic range.

I cant believe i required reseting the TVs picture as i am sure i have never edited the HDR setting ever.

And my i add the k8500 does an awesome job of upscaling standard blurays. Very close looking to fake 4k.
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post #6069 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
Thanks. I had tried unplugging it for hours and booting with the HDMI connected. I was also using the stop button on the player with no disc in it at the time, as the Samsung instructions state.

I may need to call Samsung.

--Darin
Have you tried connecting the 8500 direct to your projector with a short HDMI cable? I had the flashing red light when I first set up the player and when I reset it once. When I connected with the short cable, I was able to display the player setup menu and then everything was OK after that using the 2 cable solution.

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post #6070 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 06:28 PM
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Can an insufficient internet speed when watching 4K60 YouTube videos result in a blue screen (no signal)? I have 25 mbps service (tests pretty close to that) and sometimes the 4k60 videos play seemlessly and other times I get a blue screen and have to turn off the player and then power back on to restore the video signal. My chain is HDMI 1 out from the K8500 to the JVC RS400 connected with a 35' Celerity DFO HDMI cable and audio from the K8500 HDMI 2 output to the Denon 2200 connected with a 3 foot Monoprice 18 gb high speed cable.

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post #6071 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 08:27 PM
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Please help. Have a customer with a JVC DLA-RS500 projector. Hooked up to a Samsung K8500. Sound goes through a JBL Synthesis processor, and video into a Key Digital 4x1 4k Pro switch (Switch EDID has to be forced to 4k to get any picture). Out to projector over 40ft fiber HDMI.

With this setup, I get the startup menu from the samsung just fine, and the RS500 shows it is a 4k image. However, when I play a UHD disk, it tells me to hookup to a 4k display and down converts the signal to 1080p. JVC shows this in the upper right corner.

The rack is in a different room. I don't have a choice but to use a long cable. I've read hundreds of pages. Did I miss where there is a clear cut answer to this issue?
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post #6072 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 09:22 PM
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@CMSPEER , I'm not seeing HDCP 2.2 listed anywhere for that switch; everything in the video path needs to be compliant. Maybe there's a firmware update?

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post #6073 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 09:36 PM
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@CMSPEER , I'm not seeing HDCP 2.2 listed anywhere for that switch; everything in the video path needs to be compliant. Maybe there's a firmware update?
I tried the HDFIX as the switch suggests also with the same results. Even straight through bypassing the switch I get nothing. When I bypass the switch, I don't even get the menu. Only blue screen with no input.
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post #6074 of 13255 Old 05-11-2016, 10:29 PM
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I tried the HDFIX as the switch suggests also with the same results. Even straight through bypassing the switch I get nothing. When I bypass the switch, I don't even get the menu. Only blue screen with no input.
What firmware do you have. There is a firmware update (u83.2) for the RS500. (and also the samsung, - 1005?). It sounds like your switch is not HDCP 2.2 compliant, and that the JVC firmware is u83.1, which would result in no menu when directly connected to the JVC. That bug was fixed in u83.2.

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post #6075 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 01:04 AM
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Thanks. I had tried unplugging it for hours and booting with the HDMI connected. I was also using the stop button on the player with no disc in it at the time, as the Samsung instructions state.

I may need to call Samsung.

--Darin
Problably, I had the same issue with the first player i recieved and I got a replacement from where i bought it.

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post #6076 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 04:08 AM
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I'm having an issue with the K8500 not displaying anything when connected though my Marantz AV8802a. Not sure why, every other device works just fine and the K8500 works when directly connected to my 65E6p. Everything has up to date firmware. Not sure what else I could be missing. I also tried multiple hdmi cables etc.
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post #6077 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 05:48 AM
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I'm having an issue with the K8500 not displaying anything when connected though my Marantz AV8802a. Not sure why, every other device works just fine and the K8500 works when directly connected to my 65E6p. Everything has up to date firmware. Not sure what else I could be missing. I also tried multiple hdmi cables etc.
Ditto. Has anyone talked to Marantz?

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post #6078 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 05:50 AM
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My 7702mkII works fine. Do you have a non HDCP 2.2 device on the other monitor out? Do you have the UHD Deep Color Setting on in tv settings?
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post #6079 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:09 AM
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Try setting the resolution manually to 2160p and plug it into the AVR.

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post #6080 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:17 AM
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Just had a quick question about using bdwise- should I set that for both the player and the tv? I have a UN75HU8550 with SEK 3500. Will that give me the best UHD HDR picture?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Like most Samsung owners suggest, have the TV set to Movie mode with BD Wise turned OFF in the TV settings and the K8500 set to either 2160 to have the player upscale everything... or use a little trick I discovered to have the player automatically send 1080p to the TV and let it do the upscaling when it detects a 1080p Blu-ray by turning on BD Wise but only in the K8500 settings.

Read all about it by searching for my post in this thread titled "BD Wise Guy".

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post #6081 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:20 AM
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No, no particular setting for 4K. The K8500's menu plays just fine, and that's in 4K/60p. Playing a regular Blu-Ray and letting the K8500 upscale it to 4K plays just fine. Playing the 4K Blu-Ray and forcing the K8500 to output 1080p works fine. Just playing the 4K Blu-Ray in 4K seems to be the problem. I have Deadpool coming today, and I'll try that. Have problems with the 4K discs themselves been prevalent?

I've also played 4K video from my Roku 4, which had no problem sending it to my TV, even through the receiver. I switched the Roku back to 1080 though, because my internet is barely fast enough to play 4K. The first few minutes of Mad Dogs was breathtaking though.
Tried Deadpool last night, and it did the exact same thing as the Revenant. Displays the 4K upscale from the regular Blu-Ray without problems, but the 4K Blu-Ray gives me "no signal" on the screen while the audio plays in the background. When I start the movie, it gives me the message that it would look best on a 4K TV with HDR (mine is a non-HDR set), then goes to the "no signal" message on the screen.

This time, I even went deep into the settings on both the player ant the TV, and kept trying to play the disc, but to no avail. Any more ideas?
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post #6082 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:23 AM
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The theory behind HDR and WCG is basic and when done properly through the whole signal train it will most definitely wow anyone who see's it.
But these comparisons beg the question as I understood it. "Can you turn HDR off?" I also don't see much difference on my Samsung 65HU9000/SEK 3500, but 4K/HDR Blu-rays on the K8500 do look great, for sure.

However, some of the offerings through the now HDR enabled Amazon app. on the K8500 look better in their non-HDR versions. I made this determination by comparing to the still non-HDR app. in the TV.

FWIW, I came to the same conclusion comparing HDR and non-HDR on my brand new LG43UH6100 and the Roku 4 (TV has HDR, Roku 4 does not).

The point is that at least so far, HDR is not an obvious "night and day" improvement and the extreme claims being that it is hurt the credibility of the claim makers and frustrate consumers. HDR is beginning to have the look and feel (pun intended) of new and improved. No one should have to debate the differences, just as (almost) no one questions the difference 4K makes. That was an improvement I saw at once and became a relatively early adaptor. HDR, so far ... no so much.

But I remain confident that better (and less expensive) consumer television is coming soon. Real improvements may be here perhaps as these new technologies get sorted out and the corporate posturing to control them is finished.
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post #6083 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:32 AM
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Official Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player Owner's Thread

I see a night and day difference between HDR and SDR content with HDR being clearly superior in quality. There are many on this forum saying the same thing too. People are just too used to a washed out SDR picture so HDR looks duller but in fact retains more of the original detail.

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post #6084 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:47 AM
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Disconnected everything else except the Samsung. I don't have deep color on tv or samsung and I tried setting resolution to 2160p, still no picture.
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post #6085 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 06:47 AM
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No one should have to debate the differences, just as (almost) no one questions the difference 4K makes. That was an improvement I saw at once and became a relatively early adaptor. HDR, so far ... no so much.
Not saying you are wrong, only you can speak for what you are seeing...but these statements put you in a pretty small minority (at least in these parts).
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post #6086 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 07:16 AM
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Disconnected everything else except the Samsung. I don't have deep color on tv or samsung and I tried setting resolution to 2160p, still no picture.


Their is a problem with HDMI and HDCP2.2 on some players. This happen after 1004 update. 1005 fixed this problem on the majority of K8500. Samsung is aware that their is a problem for some players and is working on a fix

If you wait ten minutes the handshake will happen and you will get a picture

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post #6087 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 07:36 AM
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Tried Deadpool last night, and it did the exact same thing as the Revenant. Displays the 4K upscale from the regular Blu-Ray without problems, but the 4K Blu-Ray gives me "no signal" on the screen while the audio plays in the background. When I start the movie, it gives me the message that it would look best on a 4K TV with HDR (mine is a non-HDR set), then goes to the "no signal" message on the screen.

This time, I even went deep into the settings on both the player ant the TV, and kept trying to play the disc, but to no avail. Any more ideas?
Since it's unlikely that you have two defective discs, I would suggest you contact Vizio to discuss the signal limitations of the HDMI ports you are trying to use with the player. A direct connection between the player and a TV's HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 compliant port SHOULD produce an image when you play a disc, even after putting up the "look best on a 4K TV with HDR" message. You've verified that your cable is fully compliant, so I cannot think of any reason why you're observing this type of behavior.
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post #6088 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 07:59 AM
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What firmware do you have. There is a firmware update (u83.2) for the RS500. (and also the samsung, - 1005?). It sounds like your switch is not HDCP 2.2 compliant, and that the JVC firmware is u83.1, which would result in no menu when directly connected to the JVC. That bug was fixed in u83.2.
I am back on site this morning. I unplugged both the JVC and the player. Then replugged them in and turned on the Player first then the PJ. I get a 4k image now when playing a disk. If I go to the menu screen of the JVC, it doesn't show an HDR section as I've seen others do. Is this a function of my lower bandwidth cable?
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post #6089 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 08:03 AM
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My 7702mkII works fine. Do you have a non HDCP 2.2 device on the other monitor out? Do you have the UHD Deep Color Setting on in tv settings?
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Try setting the resolution manually to 2160p and plug it into the AVR.
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Originally Posted by tomcrown1 View Post
Their is a problem with HDMI and HDCP2.2 on some players. This happen after 1004 update. 1005 fixed this problem on the majority of K8500. Samsung is aware that their is a problem for some players and is working on a fix

If you wait ten minutes the handshake will happen and you will get a picture

10 minutes?!? Jees, I think my E6 goes to sleep before 10 minutes for power saving.
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post #6090 of 13255 Old 05-12-2016, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CMSPEER View Post
I am back on site this morning. I unplugged both the JVC and the player. Then replugged them in and turned on the Player first then the PJ. I get a 4k image now when playing a disk. If I go to the menu screen of the JVC, it doesn't show an HDR section as I've seen others do. Is this a function of my lower bandwidth cable?
I would ask in Official JVC RS600 / RS500 (X950R / X750R - X9000 / X7000) Owners Thread, as that is where all of the RS500/samsung owners are, but you will not have success without the firmware updates.
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