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post #1 of 103 Old 03-22-2016, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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World's First DolbyVision U-Ray Player?

So who is it going to be? With TCL, Philips, Vizio and LG releasing DV compatible displays there should be one by the end of the year. My money is on LG as they make both Blu-ray player and the TVs. Guess it could also be Philips, Oppo or even Sony. It is strange that there has been almost no rumors of one by now.
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post #2 of 103 Old 03-22-2016, 05:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
It is strange that there has been almost no rumors of one by now.
Maybe everyone came to their senses about incorporating someone else's proprietary system into their hardware.
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post #3 of 103 Old 03-22-2016, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Maybe everyone came to their senses about incorporating someone else's proprietary system into their hardware.
They have no problem doing it with Dolby audio formats. I guess it would depend on the hardware and licensing costs. It can't be that much if TCL, Vizio and Philips are putting it in their mid range displays.
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post #4 of 103 Old 03-23-2016, 09:04 AM
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From what I understand, DolbyVision may be a problem for displays as it is more demanding than HDR. They are having all kinds of issues with HDR as it is because there is no standard to calibrate too. UHD movies are coming out with different levels which look different from one film to another.

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post #5 of 103 Old 03-23-2016, 09:52 AM
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Thread title could use a question mark. I came in expecting an announcement or some news.


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post #6 of 103 Old 03-23-2016, 12:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
From what I understand, DolbyVision may be a problem for displays as it is more demanding than HDR.
Correct.


Quote:
They are having all kinds of issues with HDR as it is because there is no standard to calibrate too. UHD movies are coming out with different levels which look different from one film to another.
The dust has not settled with HDR.
Until there is some kind of standard everyone can agree on it's a bit of a mess really.
The titles I have seen often look bizarre and artificial.
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post #7 of 103 Old 03-28-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post
So who is it going to be? With TCL, Philips, Vizio and LG releasing DV compatible displays there should be one by the end of the year. My money is on LG as they make both Blu-ray player and the TVs. Guess it could also be Philips, Oppo or even Sony. It is strange that there has been almost no rumors of one by now.
we need player to bring 8 BIT to 12 BIT color
we need player to bring RGB to WRGB in OLED
we need player to bring upscale from 720P to 4k ( High quality )
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post #8 of 103 Old 03-28-2016, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
From what I understand, DolbyVision may be a problem for displays as it is more demanding than HDR. They are having all kinds of issues with HDR as it is because there is no standard to calibrate too. UHD movies are coming out with different levels which look different from one film to another.
One way to look at it is that one reason it is a mess is because Dolby kept the best parts of the HDR they had been working on for more than a decade for themselves and provided HDR10 with just the basics. Dolby Vision versions might not be so messed up precisely because they do provide some premium control to avoid problems.

I get the impression around here sometimes that people think this is like Blu-ray vs HD DVD where 2 different groups came up with completely different solutions. This seems more like if Sony had developed Blu-ray with licensing fees and then an inferior free version for everybody who was fine with getting less. HDR10 essentially started with Dolby also, going back to Brightside, a company Dolby purchased years ago.

It might even be appropriate to think of HDR10 as HDR-Lite. From what I've heard it sounds like people want us to start calling HDR10 just HDR. I'm not planning on doing that anymore than I would use just the term SUV if some company made a new vehicle where the actual model was named SUV. If I'm forced to come up with a qualifier to explain what kind of HDR I am referring to maybe I'll use SMPTE HDR, or HDR-Lite.

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post #9 of 103 Old 03-28-2016, 01:11 PM
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^ If Dolby says that we need 12-bit per channel (36 bit total) to support Dolby Vision whereas the rest of the industry seems to think that 10-bit per channel (30-bit) is enough for now. Why would anyone care about bit-streaming Dolby Vision from a 4K UHD BD player at this time? BTW Dolby likes to call HDR less then 12 bits as generic HDR, oh my!
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post #10 of 103 Old 03-28-2016, 02:24 PM
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Aww so they are saying 1 Billion colors is not enough to make a good picture? I say give us 10bit HDR that's mastered correctly and let someone else worry about the merits of 12bit.
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post #11 of 103 Old 03-28-2016, 02:33 PM
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The differences between DV and HDR10 are most definitely not just bit depth. Do people seriously think Dolby gave up every HDR capability/feature they had come up with for free, other than bit depth?

Again, I wonder if people understand that it is largely Dolby who came up with the HDR capabilities in HDR10.

--Darin

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post #12 of 103 Old 03-30-2016, 06:28 AM
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Anyone else remember this?

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...side_hdr_edr/1

Dolby acquired Brightside and it's the basis of the tech we're seeing now. Funny it took 10yrs...

Although we needed to wait for Haitz's law initially (the first display had to be liquid cooled!) it took a ridiculously long time to get this feature in televisions.

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post #13 of 103 Old 03-30-2016, 11:56 AM
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Your right. It started from Dolby's 2007 acquisition of BrightSide, bringing the JPEG-HDR technology into the Dolby fold. Good memory.
Reference this Feb 2012 article from PC Mag: Dolby Expands From Audio Into Imaging Via HDR Technology

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Dolby Laboratories has begun moving into the imaging space with a technology called JPEG-HDR, which it has reportedly licensed to Qualcomm.
The format allows high-dynamic range images to be encoded into a single format, according to the company, without large file sizes or compatibility issues.
The goal is to improve the quality of cell phone cameras, the company said. The technology has been licensed to Qualcomm as well as an unannounced chip maker, the company told TWICE. PCMag was unable to reach the company for an interview, but a spokesman provided explanatory documents.
Dolby, of course, is a name that's virtually synonymous with audio technology, in PCs, CE devices, and now in smartphones. Dolby audio technologies are found in over 150 handsets and 12 tablets, Dolby said. Phones from Nokia, Pantech, and LG use the Dolby Digital Plus technology.
JPEG-HDR was originally created by Greg Ward of BrightSide Technology and Maryann Simmons, then working for Walt Disney's animation department. In April 2007, Dolby completed its acquisition of BrightSide, bringing the JPEG-HDR technology into the Dolby fold.

Creating composite pictures using HDR technology evolved from the problem that most cameraphones have been unable to solve: Non-HDR cameras take pictures at a single exposure level with a limited contrast range, meaning that detail is often lost in either dark or highly exposed segments of the image. A picture of a sunset, for example, generally renders the ground as a uniformly dark image. HDR technology takes two or more images - one optimized for a low exposure, one optimized for high exposure - then intelligently combines them together to create a new image.
The Apple iPhone 4S solves this problem by building HDR technology directly inside its camera application.
JPEG-HDR consists of two components, according to Dolby: a backwards-compatible JPEG image, which is a tone-mapped version of original image, plus a Dolby-specific unique collection of HDR Metadata which is supplemental information and used to restore the original HDR image. The container is a standard JPEG wrapper with App Marker 11 for HDR Metadata. Dolby said that it is working with the International Standards Union (ISO) to standardize the technology.
The key to the new format is taking advantage of sensors that include 10 to 14 bits per pixel of information; a standard JPEG file stores 8 bits of information. "JPEG is the bottleneck limiting dynamic range," Dolby said.
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post #14 of 103 Old 03-31-2016, 08:22 PM
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From what I've gathered, there are several "benefits" to the Dolby Vision platform. Much of the problem with HDR in general is that authoring for HDR release is not standardized, therefore some HDR-lite things look good, but other look like crap because they are authored differently, and the player and display have no way to "know." It is my understanding that DV provides the infrastructure from authoring to display. Most importantly, there is the potential for metadata from the source that is by-shot and even by-frame. This metadata will be able to dynamically manipulate the display gamma (and even dynamic aperture on projectors) so that every DV title is displayed as it was designed. If that takes 12-bit, I'm all for it. Bring it on.


Maybe I'm not understanding things correctly. Dive in if you have more info.
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post #15 of 103 Old 04-05-2016, 09:16 AM
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makes me want to wait

Here I am on the verge of pulling the trigger for a Samsung or Sony 4k set, but this whole talk about HDR10 vs the forthcoming Dolbyvision makes me want to wait. It sounds to me like Dolbyvision will look far superior. I guess we will have to wait and see. I wish we had an idea as to when it will make it debut. EDIT: I see that Vizio has a tv for sale right now that has Dolbyvision in its specs. But am I understanding that we need a Tv with Dolbyvision and a UHD BD disc that is authored with Dolbyvision in order to see it in its full glory?

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post #16 of 103 Old 04-05-2016, 02:59 PM
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I don't think DolbyVision will make an appearance for a while. The problem is Dolby features are rarely implemented for some reason. Dolby TrueHD came out with a lot of titles but once DTS HD Master came out, Dolby TrueHD is rarely used. I don't know why because in my opinion, Dolby TrueHD sounds better than DTS HD Master. It could be that Dolby has a higher royalty than DTS so studios use DTS to save money.

If DolbyVision requires 12-bit color and the industry feels 10-bit is enough, DolbyVision may not even see the light.
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post #17 of 103 Old 04-06-2016, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
I don't think DolbyVision will make an appearance for a while. The problem is Dolby features are rarely implemented for some reason. Dolby TrueHD came out with a lot of titles but once DTS HD Master came out, Dolby TrueHD is rarely used. I don't know why because in my opinion, Dolby TrueHD sounds better than DTS HD Master. It could be that Dolby has a higher royalty than DTS so studios use DTS to save money.

If DolbyVision requires 12-bit color and the industry feels 109-bit is enough, DolbyVision may not even see the light.
Huh? Dolby Vision is available right now. There are several Vudu UHD movies available with it as well as Marco Polo (via Netflix) with another series coming later this summer. My new Vizio P75-C1 is working great with DV.

*Edit - maybe you're referring to DV on UHD disc players. I can't speak to that. I sure hope DV becomes available on UHD disc players -- I like the idea of Dolby Vision hardware controlling what's being displayed on-screen so we can be reasonably sure we're seeing what's intended.
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post #18 of 103 Old 04-06-2016, 09:04 PM
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I would think a DV player "pricing" would be considerably higher hence it will be awhile to hit the market place...
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post #19 of 103 Old 04-07-2016, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
Here I am on the verge of pulling the trigger for a Samsung or Sony 4k set, but this whole talk about HDR10 vs the forthcoming Dolbyvision makes me want to wait. It sounds to me like Dolbyvision will look far superior. I guess we will have to wait and see. I wish we had an idea as to when it will make it debut. EDIT: I see that Vizio has a tv for sale right now that has Dolbyvision in its specs. But am I understanding that we need a Tv with Dolbyvision and a UHD BD disc that is authored with Dolbyvision in order to see it in its full glory?
You almost answered your own question (in your edit), but the fact remains: we have no idea if/how you can tell the difference between HDR10 and DV because there is no way to make a side-by-side comparison (yet). If in fact Dolby was the seed of the HDR10 standard, then shame on them for pushing a non-standard/proprietary implementation of DV instead of evolving the standard! Not only is it causing confusion in the UHD market (where HDR10 is part of the standard), but the additional hardware cost is obviously giving some manufacturers pause (which hurts everyone: no way to "see it").
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post #20 of 103 Old 04-07-2016, 11:10 AM
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........... I don't know why because in my opinion, Dolby TrueHD sounds better than DTS HD Master. .................


All things being equal they should sound the same. Since they are both using Lossless data compression schemes..

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post #21 of 103 Old 04-07-2016, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Finally, a tiny bit of info concerning the worlds first Dolby Vision U-Ray™ players.

Quote:
Dolby also said that we can expect to see Ultra HD Blu-ray players that support Dolby Vision released later this year. When we asked LG if they had any plans to release an Ultra HD Blu-ray player they said that "they were having that conversation"
Source: https://www.avforums.com/article/lg-...y-vision.12512
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post #22 of 103 Old 04-07-2016, 04:14 PM
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Thank you Sytech for giving me hope lol...
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post #23 of 103 Old 04-08-2016, 05:55 PM
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If its from a Big brand company id guess it would be LG. Otherwise id think it would be a company trying to make a name for themselves...
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post #24 of 103 Old 04-09-2016, 10:10 PM
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Having just purchased a $3600 Dolby Vision Vizio P set this news kind of deflates my excitement. My first television in over 10 years and it already feels like the industry is letting us down a little bit.
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post #25 of 103 Old 04-10-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanton View Post
You almost answered your own question (in your edit), but the fact remains: we have no idea if/how you can tell the difference between HDR10 and DV because there is no way to make a side-by-side comparison (yet). If in fact Dolby was the seed of the HDR10 standard, then shame on them for pushing a non-standard/proprietary implementation of DV instead of evolving the standard! Not only is it causing confusion in the UHD market (where HDR10 is part of the standard), but the additional hardware cost is obviously giving some manufacturers pause (which hurts everyone: no way to "see it").
I read something written several months ago by a professional in the field. When asked whether HDR10 or DV was better, he said he couldn't answer that specifically. He said they are different and depending upon who is doing the grading process and the particular preferences of the viewer, some titles would look better in HDR10 and some in DV.
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Originally Posted by Jeremy3721@gmail.com View Post
Having just purchased a $3600 Dolby Vision Vizio P set this news kind of deflates my excitement. My first television in over 10 years and it already feels like the industry is letting us down a little bit.
Thats the problem with all this 4K industry, sets you up to expect things immediately that aren't done deals. Just be happy you can finally buy couple of UHD BD players, play some limited quantity of 4K UHD BD with HDR titles, and finally see it on your new UDTV. Hell that took years to achieve!

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post #27 of 103 Old 04-10-2016, 03:33 PM
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Thats the problem with all this 4K industry, sets you up to expect things immediately that aren't done deals. Just be happy you can finally buy couple of UHD BD players, play some limited quantity of 4K UHD BD with HDR titles, and finally see it on your new UDTV. Hell that took years to achieve!
Is the Philips UHD BD player out now? Or is it the Panasonic?

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post #28 of 103 Old 04-10-2016, 04:35 PM
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Is the Philips UHD BD player out now? Or is it the Panasonic?
In Europe started to see multiple reviews and box opening videos for the Pansonic UHD player. Stateside they said April.

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post #29 of 103 Old 04-10-2016, 04:53 PM
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I have a feeling that Panasonic player is without DolbyVision...
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post #30 of 103 Old 04-11-2016, 01:49 PM
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This lengthy CNET article illustrates how the HDR wars could effect us, see
HDR is TV's next big format war, and Samsung and Sony could find themselves on the losing side
Quote:
I also can't tell you which HDR format is "better." My only head-to-head experience so far -- watching "Mad Max: Fury Road" on Vudu (Dolby Vision) and on 4K Blu-ray (HDR10) -- was on different TVs, which completely skews the results. Did I prefer the Dolby version in that instance because it was utilizing superior HDR technology, or because the TV was simply better to begin with?

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