Paramount to Support Blu-Ray! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 06:56 PM
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So this is FUD from Tom's Hardware Here :confused:

Quote:
As we’ve reported here previously, AACS will require the high-def player to be continually connected to the Internet. When code from a newly inserted disc fails a test performed by the content management site (which may be run by the studios themselves), a code can be sent by the site to the player, flashing its ROMs and, in effect, telling it to “self-destruct.†To this destructive sequence, Blu-ray adds a feature called BD+ that can potentially be used as a repair sequence. HP’s Peterson describes BD+ as “a renewability feature that allows the movie studios to actually go in and patch the content protection code, if it’s been hacked. They can’t go in and fix something that’s already been hacked. But they can fix the protection so that it can’t be hacked again in the same way on the next disc.

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post #92 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 07:38 PM
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That article fails to mention that a disk must contain an enhanced title for the internet connection to be a requirement.

Wasn't Paramount behind DIVX?
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post #93 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 07:40 PM
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I would never buy a 'player' if I had to support it with telephony.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #94 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFerret
I would never buy a 'player' if I had to support it with telephony.
Careful, you'll be labeled a conspiracist.
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post #95 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 08:23 PM
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For me, the problem with DIVX was not the telephone connection, it was the fact that you had to pay every two days to watch a disc. It seems both formats want a net connection for protection...as long as they don't charge a fee, fine with me.

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post #96 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt O
For me, the problem with DIVX was not the telephone connection, it was the fact that you had to pay every two days to watch a disc. It seems both formats want a net connection for protection...as long as they don't charge a fee, fine with me.
That's oft repeated by unreliable sites, and oft rejected by insiders. They don't need it for protection. You'll be able to plop it in an isolated player, and play.

Think they want to hamstring the mobile, laptop, and portable markets?

The connection would be used for OPTIONAL content, and the Managed Copy feature. That is, if you want to connect, then it will connect.

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post #97 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KramerTC
Careful, you'll be labeled a conspiracist.
I read enough of the AACS docs 'till it started to give me a headache and I started to hear wooshing sounds as it flew over my head. :) Over on the big thread I called it "DIVX without the wires" in a short rant. It sucks, the only option to deal with it, is to not buy it. I will pass until things get cheap and works well enough to pick up a player and rent discs from BlockBuster.

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post #98 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 09:04 PM
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while (1){
printf("AACS does not require a phone line\
");
}

I have said that AACS does not require a phone connection a million times in English. Figured I use C language to see if that works better :D. If not, let me know and I will start to translate it into other languages :).

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post #99 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
I have said that AACS does not require a phone connection a million times in English.
I keep hearing that from both camps, but I'm not quite ready to believe it yet. Here's why...

When interactivity through an internet connection is discussed, one of the first examples always given is that the studios can keep content like the trailers "fresh". Now how many people are going to make the choice to connect in and watch the trailers? The only way I see the studios getting their fresh trailers viewed is by making you use the connection to get and view the new trailers before you can watch the movie. With all the forced trailers on current DVDs, would anyone put this past the studios?

P.S. Not picking on you Amirm. Actually I'm on your side in all this (for now at least).

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post #100 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:10 PM
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I appreciate your concern David. It is true that studios can put content on the disc that would require internet connection. But you can leave your DVD player unconnected and enjoy the rest of the disc. All of this is optional. Indeed, most (if not all) first generation high definition DVD players will not even have an internet connectivity!

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post #101 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2bonez
I read enough of the AACS docs 'till it started to give me a headache and I started to hear wooshing sounds as it flew over my head. :) Over on the big thread I called it "DIVX without the wires" in a short rant. It sucks, the only option to deal with it, is to not buy it. I will pass until things get cheap and works well enough to pick up a player and rent discs from BlockBuster.

b2b
Out of curiosity... were you an early adopter of DVD? I was and lived through the DIVX fiasco. Although it was short lived it left a very sour taste. Now I feel the same way you do.
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post #102 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
Indeed, most (if not all) first generation high definition DVD players will not even have an internet connectivity!
Huh? That means no MC either, correct?
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post #103 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semblance
Huh? That means no MC either, correct?
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant CE devices. PCs of course, always have internet connectivity and are the ideal (although not the only) platform for managed copy.

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post #104 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
All of this is optional.
So how are the studios going to get me to watch the trailers? I know they really really really want me to watch the trailers.

Quote:
Indeed, most (if not all) first generation high definition DVD players will not even have an internet connectivity!
All the pictures I've seen of BR prototypes show network jacks already in place. Are you really saying that the first wave of HD-DVD players won't be jacked? Can we hold you to that?

David
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post #105 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KramerTC
Out of curiosity... were you an early adopter of DVD? I was and lived through the DIVX fiasco.
I know a lot of us here went through the DIVX vs. DVD war. Studio backing was split there as well. I'm curious if anyone when deciding which of those formats to support cared which studios were in which camp?

I'm sure that now as then, when the market picks a format, all studios will jump on board.

David
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post #106 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crussader
So how are the studios going to get me to watch the trailers? I know they really really really want me to watch the trailers.
Each BD player comes with a feature called BD-. Through their work in miniaturization, they have managed to reduce the size of a pellet gun to .1 mm diameter. The gun will be mounted in the front of the unit and will shoot at you if you touch the remote while the trailers are playing :). Blu flames will accompany said shooting :D.

Seriously, if they want to force you to watch something, they will probably put it on the disc. Actually, I don’t even know if feature is there (forced features).

Quote:
All the pictures I've seen of BR prototypes show network jacks already in place. Are you really saying that the first wave of HD-DVD players won't be jacked? Can we hold you to that?
Oh, they love to pretend these units are advanced and have fancy internet features. But privately, many CE companies are terrified of hooking these things up to the internet and take support calls when they don’t work.

And no, you can’t hold me to this. We don’t make any CE players. I am just trying to be helpful :). Someone may go and build one of these just to show that it can be built….

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post #107 of 170 Old 10-03-2005, 10:36 PM
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I did compare the list of studios to the old DIVX backers... Paramount's "Braveheart" was on the first wave of HD-DVD titles that would have been released this December originally. I found that ironic since Paramount was going to release Braveheart only on DIVX at first and not on Open DVD. Ah.. the good times, we called DVD "Open DVD" at one point to make a further distinction from DIVX's DVD.
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post #108 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
while (1){
printf("AACS does not require a phone line\
");
}

I have said that AACS does not require a phone connection a million times in English. Figured I use C language to see if that works better :D. If not, let me know and I will start to translate it into other languages :).

Amir
Please don't be blindly arrogant to presume everyone is reading all the threads you post in. I certainly do not and as a result this is [good] news to me. :)

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #109 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
while (1){
printf("AACS does not require a phone line\
");
}

I have said that AACS does not require a phone connection a million times in English. Figured I use C language to see if that works better :D. If not, let me know and I will start to translate it into other languages :).

Amir
Assembly, please...

:p
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post #110 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
AACS does not require a phone line
AACS certainly does not. BD+ may. That is the concern, and since the BD+ specs are not available to us, it's one which has gone officially unanswered. While I can see why Microsoft and Intel want mandatory managed copy, I could personally care less-- I just want to watch the best presentation on my TV, when I want to, as many times as I want to, and not have anyone's "blessing" to do so once they've checked my credentials.

(BTW, I'm a Blu-ray supporter, tentatively, I'm just not a Mandatory-Internet-For-Just-Watching-A-Damned-Movie supporter, and hope the two will not be mutually exclusive).

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post #111 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm
while (1){
printf("AACS does not require a phone line\
");
}

I have said that AACS does not require a phone connection a million times in English. Figured I use C language to see if that works better :D. If not, let me know and I will start to translate it into other languages :).
Ah, now you're speekin my language. :)

Can that be the answer to the FAQ? :D


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post #112 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael
AACS certainly does not. BD+ may. That is the concern, and since the BD+ specs are not available to us, it's one which has gone officially unanswered.
This is the first time I've heard anyone speculate that BD+ may require a phone connection. That just doesn't make much sense to me. The main concerne with BD+ is that it can be used to get around MC1.
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post #113 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 03:01 PM
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Sorry to post about the thread topic :)

Paramount I think just blinked :)

If the studios did not come out early and back one or the other format/camp then the likelihood of there being a war would be nill. Sort of like "What if there were a war and nobody came"

"What if there were two formats and no one supported either until it was demonstrated as to their actual ability to work and all the costs associated with it were known"

If this were the case now we would be more likely to have a winner. Once you commit to something it is always more difficult to change and save face.

So here we are.

To avert a format war in the market place will require the other HD-DVD backing studio's to follow Paramounts lead. The way I see it if Paramount say they will release in both we a half way there to them ultimately releasing in only one :)

As for the minimizing of piracy/theft duplication, BD has an advantage over HD-DVD due to the fact that it is incompatible with the existing DVD replication process. You have to buy new equipment if you want to do Blue Ray. This means that China or any other producer of pirated disks could be denied the ability to purchase the necessary equipment and thus they are out of the piracy business :)

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post #114 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 03:02 PM
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BD+ is about the content owners "dynamically" changing the DRM. "Dynamic" can mean many things. If it means "putting a new disc in the player fixes the DRM", then obviously a phone line or a network is not required. But if "dynamic" means "whenever we [the content owners] want", then it looks more like mandatory phone/internet.

Like I said, BD+ is a black box, at this point, and all we have is speculation. The main concern here may be BD+ interfering with 1MC, but I assure you that folks who don't care beans about managed copy are much more interested in avoiding mandatory phone/internet hookup, because it smacks of Divx.

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post #115 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
So how are the studios going to get me to watch the trailers? I know they really really really want me to watch the trailers.
crussader : I think you have things mixed up

1) if they want to force you to watch something all they need to do is the same thing they are doing now on DVD (freeze the ff and stuff)

2) the connection is not to force content but to unlock it. what is discussed is that TW could make a preview of the next Harry Potter available to people that buy the last one. ....
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post #116 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
BD+ is about the content owners "dynamically" changing the DRM. "Dynamic" can mean many things. If it means "putting a new disc in the player fixes the DRM", then obviously a phone line or a network is not required. But if "dynamic" means "whenever we [the content owners] want", then it looks more like mandatory phone/internet.

BD+ is about making the disk more responsible for DRM.
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post #117 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
if they want to force you to watch something all they need to do is the same thing they are doing now on DVD (freeze the ff and stuff)
No, the studios keep saying that the internet connection will be used to keep content such as trailers "fresh". They can't get people to watch the "fresh" trailers the way they do on DVD. People will have to actively connect and get the new trailers. Just what is it that is going to compel anyone to do that?

David
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post #118 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 10:35 PM
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some people like them :)

do you watch extras? do you think all people do? do you think some do? Do you visit internet sites of all the shows you like? do you think for every show you don't that someone else does?
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post #119 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 10:50 PM
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Seems to me the linchpin here is Universal. They announce support for BluRay -- non-exclusive, exclusive, whatever -- and then there is a graceful way to say: Game Over.

I mean, let's get real, Microsoft and Intel might even be on my side in this way, but they ain't players. If they were, they wouldn't have picked this week to announce their support for one format over the other (the less PC-useful format, but whatever). They look kinda foolish what with Paramount becoming the first "true agnostic" by announcing it's really, truly supporting both.

If Universal does same, TW can say, "Well, we really, truly thought HD-DVD was better and all and easier and such, but we're not going to stand in the way of this grand compromise. The worst thing for customers is a format war and with 5 of the 6 major stuios supporting BluRay, we are going to join them and end our support for HD-DVD. There isn't much reason for two formats if we're all behind one and that's really, truly a win for everyone. Thanks for listening."

HD-DVD was hanging by a thread, which is probably why Microtelinsoft tried to save it. They envision this PC-centric living room and somehow believe that having potential extra-cost copies of discs is important to getting there (I'm skeptical on many, many counts). It's like that thing in the movie where the guy is falling from the building but has his fingers clutching a window sill... First, one hand slips off... Then, you see the first finger of the second hand slip off... Universal is another two fingers.....

There is, indeed, a chance to avoid a format war. A very, very good chance. I'm sorry, but as much as I'd like a guarantee of "managed copy" (a name so unsexy I can guarantee most people won't ever bother), I'll take my chances with BluRay in this regard if it means:

(1) No format war
(2) No convoluted multi-format players with their additional cost

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #120 of 170 Old 10-04-2005, 11:13 PM
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fingers crossed Rogo
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