The PS3 is good for Blu-Ray, but, is Blu-Ray good for the PS3? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 01:16 PM
 
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Most likely comes down to the programmers jvarisco.

Either they are being a bit lazy, or don't quite understand the compression mechanisms of the 360 quite yet.

The power of the either machines CPU should be more than enough to do plenty of compression work.
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post #92 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvarisco
Are you trying to say that these games have FMV, and it's better than the realtime rendered graphics?
absolutely..anybody who has play these games knows it to be true. I have all of them on disc or in demo on my 360's HDD.


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Fair enough.

Well, I don't know how in the hell they took up 9Gigs on a fighting game, unless they were using FMV. Since I didn't play it, could someone tell me? if it was the case, then that simply goes back to my first point, which is would you have said, "Hmm, this fighting game is awesome but I won't buy it unless it has FMV."
Plus, it says right in the quote you gave me... space wasn't a problem once they started paying attention to it.
Obviously they have to work within their limitations. Hence the "and even had to make adjustments as reports came in daily of having reached the final few megabytes of space." comment.
That is for DOAX2 a different game still in the works. Which is still says they have to Keep an eye on the space. I don't think they'd be "keeping a close eye on space" if they had significantly more room to work with. Could be part of the reasons why Itagaki's said he wanted HD-DVD in the xbox360.



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As for this, I hate to be a broken record, but what exactly in their first person shooter is taking up 9Gigs? Voice? Textures? FMV? Why aren't the teams that are making the new Turok, or Gears of War, or Prey, complaining about the same problem?
Different games by different people, different techniques, budgets, etc.. Clearly last gen some games were bigger than others. Some spanned multiple DVD's while some barely took up a 1/4th of one.
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post #93 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 01:46 PM
 
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I must say I have read plenty of coments from several developers that are very happy about having a next gen medium and having increased limitations. I have not read any complaints by dev's for having increased limitations. Pretty much every gen most consoles have gone a step forward with storage mediums as well. xbox360 is a rare exception, I'm not sure if there are others.
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post #94 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
absolutely..anybody who has play these games knows it to be true. I have all of them on disc or in demo on my 360's HDD.
I would think that's a subjective question, so "true" isn't a good way to describe it. :)

You didn't answer my questions, which were:
1. Does DoA4 have a lot of FMV?
2 Would you not have purchased the game if it didn't have that FMV in it?



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Different games by different people, different techniques, budgets, etc.. Clearly last gen some games were bigger than others. Some spanned multiple DVD's while some barely took up a 1/4th of one.
What games came on 2 (or more) discs? Hell, the best info I can find shows only 15 games that use DVD9, let alone multiple discs.
Again, considering the vast majority of current games use less than 25% of a DVD9 storage, it was reasonalbe and sensible to continue using the format.

While Sony can talk about how PS3 games will need 25G, you'd have to be living in a cave to think Sony doesn't have a huge vested interest in Blu-Ray's success, and that was the major consideration when including it.
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post #95 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 02:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvarisco
I would think that's a subjective question, so "true" isn't a good way to describe it. :)
lol, well you can check for yourself. Some might say Pitfall on the Atari looks better than Tom Raider on the xbox360 as well.


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You didn't answer my questions, which were:
1. Does DoA4 have a lot of FMV?
2 Would you not have purchased the game if it didn't have that FMV in it?
I thought they were rhetorical questions. my mistake.

1) I don't own it, just have the demo but it probably does.
2) I would, but for some games there are probably some people that might not. I really don't know. Final Fantasy games for example. Some people clearly enjoy them.



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What games came on 2 (or more) discs?
a few PS2 games, Star Ocean as well as some others that I can't remember off hand.

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Hell, the best info I can find shows only 15 games that use DVD9, let alone multiple discs.
Again, considering the vast majority of current games use less than 25% of a DVD9 storage, it was reasonalbe and sensible to continue using the format.

While Sony can talk about how PS3 games will need 25G, you'd have to be living in a cave to think Sony doesn't have a huge vested interest in Blu-Ray's success, and that was the major consideration when including it.
Of course they have a vested interest, I think everybody knows that. Which is why I used comments from non-Sony devs (Starbreeze and Team Ninja) ;)
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post #96 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 02:23 PM
 
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i'd rather play the game than watch FMV, waste of time typically
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post #97 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 02:40 PM
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So don't buy it. Sports games, movie tie-ins, and RPG's can benefit now. The other games will follow. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. The main benefit of Blu-ray for the PS3 is longevity. They don't NEED BD now but eventually the break will need to be made. PS2 is still the best seller out there, so now's the perfect time. It would be better from a pricing standoint if the PlayStation with Blu-ray came out 3 years after BD launch, as with DVD...

The Xbox can keep doing incremental updates at shorter periods of time ("Xbox 720" with new CPU/GPU/ integraded HD-DVD drive and HDMI) Sony's updates to the PS3 can be like the PS2. Slimline, etc.

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post #98 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 03:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
I must say I have read plenty of coments from several developers that are very happy about having a next gen medium and having increased limitations. I have not read any complaints by dev's for having increased limitations. Pretty much every gen most consoles have gone a step forward with storage mediums as well. xbox360 is a rare exception, I'm not sure if there are others.
PS2 was as well.

Personally I would have preferred if the 360 incorporated HD DVD, but I'm sure there are several good reasons why they didn't. First of all, it probably wasn't ready and Microsoft wasn't going to give up their advantage for it to be ready. And it would have been awkward to have a next gen software player with no next gen software available.

It was also as yet untested and they didn't want the PR nightmare if something went wrong.

But probably the biggest reason was that it would dramatically increase the cost of the console and they knew they were already nuzzling the barriar.

Ultimately I assume they did the right thing for their company. As a gamer I would have preferred HD DVD to be built in.

The rumor is that the 360 price will stay the same this christmas but an HD DVD attatchment will come in the box, later to be actually incorporated into the machine proper. Of course no 360 games will utilize the advanatages of the HD DVD drive because that would invalidate the whole first wave of consoles.
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post #99 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fettastic
PS2 was as well.

Personally I would have preferred if the 360 incorporated HD DVD, but I'm sure there are several good reasons why they didn't. First of all, it probably wasn't ready and Microsoft wasn't going to give up their advantage for it to be ready. And it would have been awkward to have a next gen software player with no next gen software available.

It was also as yet untested and they didn't want the PR nightmare if something went wrong.

But probably the biggest reason was that it would dramatically increase the cost of the console and they knew they were already nuzzling the barriar.

Ultimately I assume they did the right thing for their company. As a gamer I would have preferred HD DVD to be built in.

The rumor is that the 360 price will stay the same this christmas but an HD DVD attatchment will come in the box, later to be actually incorporated into the machine proper. Of course no 360 games will utilize the advanatages of the HD DVD drive because that would invalidate the whole first wave of consoles.
agreed. I personally would have gladly paid an extra $100 for it to be included.
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post #100 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic
The rumor is that the 360 price will stay the same this christmas but an HD DVD attatchment will come in the box, later to be actually incorporated into the machine proper.
I don't know who floats such speculation ... don't they have to be atleast realistic ? If we assume the add on will go for $200 - does anyone think the console will be sold at half the price come November ?
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post #101 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 03:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nataraj
I don't know who floats such speculation ... don't they have to be atleast realistic ? If we assume the add on will go for $200 - does anyone think the console will be sold at half the price come November ?
I doubt it. They don't need to sell it that cheap so why should they.
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post #102 of 225 Old 08-04-2006, 03:42 PM
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Which rumors are you hearing? I'm seeing no price drop for the 360 and $199 for the HD-DVD add-on which makes it the same price as the low end PS3. I don't like the form factor of the add-on at all and would much prefer a revised SKU with HD-DVD drive integrated in. At this point, I'm inclined to wait for a revised SKU rather than buy the add-on...

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post #103 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 09:18 AM
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I don't think the notion of "Well BD may not be needed now, but in the future it will be" holds much water.

For the sake of argument, lets say than in 2 years 9GB won't be enough space for the average next-gen game. Surely the 18GB threshold won't be met for at least 6 years or so. Provided the price is the same as a game on 1 DVD9. I for one would prefer 2 DVD9's over 1 BD25 if it means a cheaper system and a system that is easier to program for. Especially if the 2xDVD9 game is cheaper than the 1xBD25 game.
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post #104 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 04:01 PM
 
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once Sony launches and ps 3 launches hd dvd is dead
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post #105 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 04:06 PM
 
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Do the players and discs just stop working at that point?
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post #106 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 04:11 PM
 
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might as well, once universal wakes up its all over for hd dvd
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post #107 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 04:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vick vega
might as well, once universal wakes up its all over for hd dvd
You need to check out the promises vs delivered thread.
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post #108 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 04:15 PM
 
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well blu-ray is delivering all the major studios, but universal
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post #109 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vick vega
well blu-ray is delivering all the major studios, but universal

Well, it actually has delivered very little to this point. You have hope and your health, I guess.
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post #110 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 05:30 PM
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Let's see. For twice the price, you get an inferior PQ. And most people who are videophiles will not get a gaming console as their DVD player. Sounds like the winner to me.

By the way, threads that serve no purpose other than to start arguments don't usually last very long.
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post #111 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 05:40 PM
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Vick Vega I believe the quality of your start here is the pinnacle of what this great site is all about. Let me thank you for everyone here BD fans included, you don't screw around, basically you just go straight to the "This rocks" and "That Sucks". Shakespeare blushes at your writing skills and Patton would be appreciative of your attention to detail. There really should be AVS awards for posters, but that is what heaven and dreams are for.
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post #112 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 06:29 PM
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post #113 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 06:32 PM
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Threads merged.
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post #114 of 225 Old 08-05-2006, 08:50 PM
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In a recent interview, Ken Kutaragi, President of video gaming for Sony, said that while he doesn't know the finalized prices of any PS3 games yet, he wouldn't be surprised if they were more than $60, possibly up to $100. Shortly after this, European retailers did get finalized prices on PS3 games, and they were in the 80-90 Euro price range, which would be about $70-$80 in the U.S.

With that information in mind, is BD STILL a good thing for the PS3?

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post #115 of 225 Old 08-18-2006, 06:24 AM
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It's like people that cheat on LIVE to rank up... The only reason they included the BD drive is to show a high number of units sold (which there will be). But, it's a worthless figure, because they lose money on every PS3 sold, and people aren't necessarily buying the machine because of that feature. It's really a worthless stat when people are acquiring "BD players", because they aren't necessarily being purchased due to a preference in format.

Doubtlessly, Sony will point to it though and yell from the rafters how many "BD players" they sold, hanging their hat on a "BD player" that was purchased to play Killzone or something :rolleyes:

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post #116 of 225 Old 08-18-2006, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suprmallet
In a recent interview, Ken Kutaragi, President of video gaming for Sony, said that while he doesn't know the finalized prices of any PS3 games yet, he wouldn't be surprised if they were more than $60, possibly up to $100. Shortly after this, European retailers did get finalized prices on PS3 games, and they were in the 80-90 Euro price range, which would be about $70-$80 in the U.S.

With that information in mind, is BD STILL a good thing for the PS3?

Hmm, last I checked, 80-90 Euro's is over $100 USD. ($102-$115). Unless there is some discount for the US.
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post #117 of 225 Old 08-18-2006, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Innerloop
I agree with you. I was pointing out that lack of HDMI is a weak attack against BluRay if you are banking on the XB360 add-on to bring up HD-DVD numbers.

I think its great that there will be a large number of non-HDMI players out there for both formats. Not because I want one myself, but the more players out there that would be degraded by the down-res flag, the more pressure there will be for studios to not touch that third rail, so to speak.

So please J6P - buy lots of non-HDMI playback hardware and protect us all from the evil down-res flag!
When many BD releases look like you hooked them up S-video, it scarcely matters.

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post #118 of 225 Old 08-18-2006, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyP
I pick good (it made me go from Xbox to PS :) )
Whoops. :rolleyes:

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #119 of 225 Old 08-18-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva
Hmm, last I checked, 80-90 Euro's is over $100 USD. ($102-$115). Unless there is some discount for the US.
Price in Euros does not equate by currency exchange for prices in North America and are typically more expensive.

PS3 itself at release is going to be 599 both in USD and Euro while the currency conversion makes 599 euro around 770USD.

You can bet that lower tier games will match new release 360 games at $59.99. Higher tier games will probably go to 79.99 or so.

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post #120 of 225 Old 08-18-2006, 07:12 PM
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I still find it amazing that Sony is even entertaining the idea of games over $60. I mean, hell, I'm still mad that 360 games are $60. You bet I've bought less 360 games than I would have because of that $60 price point. If Sony is really considering games of $80-$100, then either the PS3 will tank or I'll only be buying games for the Wii, because it appears as if Nintendo is the only company who understands that gaming shouldn't make you go broke.

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