The PS3 is good for Blu-Ray, but, is Blu-Ray good for the PS3? - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 225 Old 08-25-2006, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
"He wasnt talking about you he was talking about friar. "

lol, you had to let it out so soon. That's the point, IronCamel quoted MylovelyPQ reason being "That quote was just because it was his last post. Guess I should have been more clear." then followed up with "This was what I was referring too. " and quoted somebody else (BlackFriar) ;)

I'm glad he was more clear and clarified, lol
ahhh whoops i missed that lol.
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post #212 of 225 Old 08-25-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFriar
If interested: Cure@PS3 currently runs a little :) faster on Cell than a commodity CPU. The CBEA architecture took inspiration from several sources, one of which was IBM's BlueGene. A cellular computing environment for protein folding.

As for why you would run it on PlayStation3, there are many tasks a PS3 can do that aren't strictly gaming, and beyond Blu-Ray. While running one of these tasks, Blu-Ray and AVC decoding is an example, most of the Cell Processor would enter a low-power state. You could opt to allow folding to occur in the background.

And while I shouldn't really comment on how specific games look, Gatti keeps brining up why PlayStation3 games don't look that much better than Xbox360 games if Cell is such a great processor. To do this you need to look at more than just the graphics, to the animation, physics and AI and things you'd only see in a video or when playing:

Metal Gear Solid 4 at Leipzig Game Conference: Handcam video, August 23rd, 2006

Naughty Dog's Unnamed Game at E3 2006: Direct Feed, May 2006

Both are realtime, both are off development kits by talented developers. Both have amazing animation beyond anything else seen. MGS4 is particular is amazing, first time I've seen a wheel shred into individual pieces as the tire detaches from the rim after an explosion in Real-time.
MGS4's developer stated that this game could be run on the 360 exactly the same.

Also i'd like to correct my previous post Kane and Lynch (far more impressive the MGS4 or anything else ive seen to date even gears of war) seems to be coming to pc, 360 AND ps3. While i havent read anything firm about it that seems to be the word.

PS: friar you never answered my q about where the superior ps3 software is. All those quotes and statements about flops and power yet games are coming out multiplatform and looking the same. The exclusives also arent better than the 360 exclusives. Even MGS4 could be run on teh 360. So what up? :D
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post #213 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
PS: friar you never answered my q about where the superior ps3 software is. All those quotes and statements about flops and power yet games are coming out multiplatform and looking the same. The exclusives also arent better than the 360 exclusives. Even MGS4 could be run on teh 360. So what up? :D
Hmmm... PS3 has a total of ZERO software titles out right now, so none of us have actually seen final PS3 software have we. Saying things like "Even MGS4 could be run on teh 360" is an absolute meaningless statement and I doubt I have to explain why.

BTW can we stop with the fanboy video game debates? This Friar guy comes in with data from IBM Research and you start posting articles from Xbox Scene forums and asking why non-existent PS3 software that we haven't even seen doesn't look good yet.
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post #214 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 12:36 PM
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Actually, Hideo Kojima, the man who created Metal Gear and is the driving force behind all the games, DID say he could have made MGS4 for the 360 and have it run just as well. So, even though we'll never see MGS4 on the 360, it doesn't change the fact that the man responsible for the entire Metal Gear gaming series DID say it.

You have thirteen hours in which to solve the labyrinth, before your baby brother becomes one of us... forever.
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post #215 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MylovelyPQ
Hmmm... PS3 has a total of ZERO software titles out right now, so none of us have actually seen final PS3 software have we. Saying things like "Even MGS4 could be run on teh 360" is an absolute meaningless statement and I doubt I have to explain why.

BTW can we stop with the fanboy video game debates? This Friar guy comes in with data from IBM Research and you start posting articles from Xbox Scene forums and asking why non-existent PS3 software that we haven't even seen doesn't look good yet.
Hideo Kajima did say that so it isnt meaningless. Numbers can be made to lie and thats what those quotes from friar are. Sure they are facts but not in the sense that they correlate to a good gaming processor. That simply isnt true. Those reports are from servers that do different kinds of processes than gaming code. As for my where are the games comment, many of these games for ps3 are releasing screens and shots of playable demos through the public via sites like playsyde.com which i assume you havent visited sicne you continue blindly attacking my posts as incorrect. Therefore I can ask "where are the games?" since there arent any superior shots of games out right now. Also if you take a look at multi-platform games you would think with superior hardware the graphics wouldnt look EXACTLY the same. Once again evident on xboxyde and playsyde. Even if you take mgs4 I could counter with gears of war or the game i posted earlier still in developement.
The FACt is that if friar or you were correct the games we would be seeing in shots would be clearly heads and shoulders above the 360. For example if it was as powerful the games would be CGI like (for example the killzone 2 video would be actually in game footage when it isnt).
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post #216 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
Numbers can be made to lie and thats what those quotes from friar are.
Look, stop calling me a liar when I post published prefomance numbers from reputable research groups (eg. UC: Berkeley, University of Barcelona, Department of Energy, IBM Research) that are of actual and common algorithms being run on the Cell Processor.

This isn't that difficult to see what the problem is: You quote XBox fansite threads and internet forums, I quote the actual research papers. Have you even beein the same room as a PlayStation3 devkit? If so, what revision and what did you run?

You claim that I lie and then turn around and post things so absurd and degenerate that it amazes me anyone can write things like this without going out of their way to try and make it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatti-man
The FACt is that if friar or you were correct the games we would be seeing in shots would be clearly heads and shoulders above the 360.
His name is "Hideo Kojima" and it was a political remark stated in 2005. Name a 360 game with animation and physics of this quality (please watch). It should be easy since you claim the X360 can do it with no problem.


And many games are; did you forget that PlayStation3 isn't launching for another 2 months? SCE has most media under NDA untill around TGS. All you are seeing is small bits and pieces of games; and even of the fragments you do see most PlayStation3 games are quite a bit beyond the competition in terms of animation, physics and AI as well as graphically.

You quote "Kane and Lynch," because they throw a bunch of identical, geometry instanced, models into a room that run the same canned animation loops you're impressed? The models animations are horrible, nothing like Assasin Creed's crowd dynamics; the lighting is aesthetically pleasing, but shadowing is nonexistanct (nevermind anything fancy like GI). If you want a large crowd, the Ninja Theory guys have surpassed that with Heavenly Sword. It doesn't even compare to a title like what Factor 5 or Naughty Dog is working on. Brendon McNamara is working on a game published by SCEA that is just outstanding in terms of what they are doing in terms of animation and production values (although it should be considering the budget is 2-3 Xbox360 games).

I honestly believe you are biased and see what you want to see.
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post #217 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFriar
Look, stop calling me a liar when I post published prefomance numbers from reputable research groups (eg. UC: Berkeley, University of Barcelona, Department of Energy, IBM Research) that are of actual and common algorithms being run on the Cell Processor.

This isn't that difficult to see what the problem is: You quote XBox fansite threads and internet forums, I quote the actual research papers. Have you even beein the same room as a PlayStation3 devkit? If so, what revision and what did you run?

You claim that I lie and then turn around and post things so absurd and degenerate that it amazes me anyone can write things like this without going out of their way to try and make it up.



His name is "Hideo Kojima" and it was a political remark stated in 2005. Name a 360 game with animation and physics of this quality (please watch). It should be easy since you claim the X360 can do it with no problem.


And many games are; did you forget that PlayStation3 isn't launching for another 2 months? SCE has most media under NDA untill around TGS. All you are seeing is small bits and pieces of games; and even of the fragments you do see most PlayStation3 games are quite a bit beyond the competition in terms of animation, physics and AI as well as graphically.

You quote "Kane and Lynch," because they throw a bunch of identical, geometry instanced, models into a room that run the same canned animation loops you're impressed? The models animations are horrible, nothing like Assasin Creed's crowd dynamics; the lighting is aesthetically pleasing, but shadowing is nonexistanct (nevermind anything fancy like GI). If you want a large crowd, the Ninja Theory guys have surpassed that with Heavenly Sword. It doesn't even compare to a title like what Factor 5 or Naughty Dog is working on. Brendon McNamara is working on a game published by SCEA that is just outstanding in terms of what they are doing in terms of animation and production values (although it should be considering the budget is 2-3 Xbox360 games).

I honestly believe you are biased and see what you want to see.

First off i never called you a liar friar, even in my short quote which you purposefuly cut short of the explanation of what i said in the next sentence just to make things inflamatory.

Assassins creed is multi-platform.http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3380_en.html Also according to PSM this game will be released on both consoles at the same time.

Gears of war is superior to mgs4 imo. SCE most certainly does not have NDA with any 3rd party title except for access to its own dev kits but even those specs have been leaked up to the final kit (see driverheaven.net playsyde.com).

As for what Hideo said are you now saying he lied? or that it doesnt have meriut? That tech demo is easily done on the 360 otherwise he wouldnt have said it. Hideo has no reason to covet MS's favor and every reason to covet Sony's since they are the ones that shove his pockets full of money.

For the rest of your post its just spin. 2-3 times production value of 360 games? lol ok whatever friar. Sure Lost planet, Dead rising, GRAW, Fight Night:3, Oblivion, Gears of War, FEAR (which looks identical on both 360 and ps3), Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell, The Darkness, Alone int eh Dark 5. Yup all cheapo titles no money behind any of those :rolleyes:
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post #218 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 11:12 PM
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Stop avoiding it, if Xbox 360 is able to hang with PlayStaion3, then lets see the videos of a game with animation and physics comparable to that of Metal Gear Solid 4, Naughty Dog's game or Lair. Answer my initial query:

Name a 360 game with animation and physics of

this (click link) quality. It should be easy since you claim the X360 can do it with no problem. Is it that hard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
For the rest of your post its just spin. 2-3 times production value of 360 games? lol ok whatever friar.
Ask anyone who's connected in the industry about Brendan McNamara's budget. If you want to laugh, it should be at how naive you are. I'm curious, what do you think his budget it? An average X360 budget?

PS. If you want to deal with SCE, you've signed an NDA. And just because Assassin's Creed has been rumored to be multi platform doesn't mean: (a) That it doesn't outclass Kane and Lynch, (b) It will be the quality of the PS3 title.
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post #219 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFriar
Stop avoiding it, if Xbox 360 is able to hang with PlayStaion3, then lets see the videos of a game with animation and physics comparable to that of Metal Gear Solid 4, Naughty Dog's game or Lair. Answer my initial query:

Name a 360 game with animation and physics of

this (click link) quality. It should be easy since you claim the X360 can do it with no problem.

Umm I have seen lots of rendered videos on multiple platforms that looked that good. Now if it was actual gameplay that would have been more impressive. I am not saying teh game is good/bad or doesn't look spectacular but having me watch (and I did as requested) a rendered video just doesn't inspire me to "believe the hype". It is the same as that racing game that they touted (I have no idea the name of it since after Tempest 2000 came out on the Jaguar I had reached gaming Nirvana) that showed the awesome rendered video but the actual gameplay looked nothing like it?
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post #220 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFriar
Stop avoiding it, if Xbox 360 is able to hang with PlayStaion3, then lets see the videos of a game with animation and physics comparable to that of Metal Gear Solid 4, Naughty Dog's game or Lair. Answer my initial query:

Name a 360 game with animation and physics of

this (click link) quality. It should be easy since you claim the X360 can do it with no problem. Is it that hard?



Ask anyone who's connect in the industry about Brendan McNamara's budget. If you want to laugh, it should be at how naive you are. I'm curious, what do you think his budget it? An average X360 budget?

PS. If you want to deal with SCE, you've signed an NDA. And just because Assassin's Creed has been rumored to be multi platform doesn't mean: (a) That it doesn't outclass Kane and Lynch, (b) It will be the quality of the PS3 title.

Friar i never avoided your q. The animation isnt any better than dead rising in engine cut scenes. Your question is pretty funny since its hard to compete with something that is amorphous. IE hasnt been released and was a target demo more than anything else since it wasnt even running on teh ps3 final dev kit. Just refer to all teh games i listed for a clue as to how the ps3 will hang with teh 360 or vice versa. I wasnt nearly as impressed as you were obviously.

Once again attacking me personaly doesnt fly. Im not niave. Does cliffy B have a small budget? how about halo 3? COD3? Rare? How about Peter Molynueax selling out to MS so he could have bigger budgets and less time constraints? As for Kane and Lynch that game has caused more heads spinning than mgs4 has to date but im sure you wouldnt recognize that since you think anything non-ps3 is crap. I would put the mgs4 demo up with teh gears of war demo that was out about a year ago as the same impressiveness with the edge to gears of war with superior jaw dropping detail imo.

As for LAir figures youd bring that up since all that game has shown is one supposedly in engine demo. What ive heard from people is that game is so broken they dont know where to begin lol. Dont confuse in engine or a tech demo with in game friar. Sony is notoriuos for that stuff ala E3 and teh killzone 2 "demo" or the FF7 "tech demo".
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post #221 of 225 Old 08-26-2006, 11:40 PM
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Dead-Rising? Uh, alright. Maybe share with us a video of animation? Perhaps of something comparable to MGS4? Maybe can we see cloth animation or deformation? Post a link and lets people compare against my videos instead of just listening to your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tormond
Umm I have seen lots of rendered videos on multiple platforms that looked that good. Now if it was actual gameplay that would have been more impressive.
Hi! It was rendered in RT off a PlayStation3 devkit (see following quote for link to video of it manipulated on a devkit). It's not game play, but it's most certainly indicative of that you will play.

According to Konami, game director Hideo Kojima couldn't be at the show in person because he's busy working on the game, but he said he looks forward to attending the Games Convention next year -- along with a playable version of the game. He also said that the final game will look just as good as this trailer when you are playing it. Enjoy. -

http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153076
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
IE hasnt been released and was a target demo more than anything else since it wasnt even running on teh ps3 final dev kit.
Incorrect. Do you have any idea how hard it is to talk to someone who comments without knowing what he is talking about?

MGS4 running in realtime on a PlayStation3 DevKit. Kojima is manipulating and changing effects in RT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
Im not niave. Does cliffy B have a small budget? how about halo 3? COD3? Rare? How about Peter Molynueax selling out to MS so he could have bigger budgets and less time constraints?
It wasn't an attack, don't take it as such. If you know, prove me wrong and tell us how much they are budgeted at. I believe, from the fact you never make concrete statements, that you genuinely have no idea. So maybe pick a number before I hint. What do you think the games you listed are budgeted at? Lets hear what you know for a change!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
Dont confuse in engine or a tech demo with in game friar.
Hah. Reading Anandtech again?!?
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post #222 of 225 Old 08-27-2006, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by fire407
Although this isn't a forum to discuss games, having Madden 2007 out for the 360 now is going to have more people opt for the 360. One of the appealing things about Madden is getting the current rosters. If the PS3 is delayed further, then there might be less incentive for someone to get Madden as the football season would be almost over. The game is selling well, and I bet Sony wishes they had the PS3 out by now.
Just so you know Madden 07 is out for the PS2 too.
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post #223 of 225 Old 08-27-2006, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavidson
Any thoughts?

Brad
The PS3 will do fine regardless. Too many people prefer Sony to other alternatives ***cough***Evilsoft***Bill Gates***cough***

A world where MS controls the home is a world where evil has won! :mad:


Note: In 8 years we'll be looking at downloadable content (movies). So, plastic media wont matter as much.
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post #224 of 225 Old 08-27-2006, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital_View
Just so you know Madden 07 is out for the PS2 too.
The PS2 version isn't in HD.
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post #225 of 225 Old 08-28-2006, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital_View
Note: In 8 years we'll be looking at downloadable content (movies). So, plastic media wont matter as much.
Throughput will have to increase dramatically for this to be viable. Fiber is a good start, but with HD removable media will be still more viable for most people, and thus the market in general.

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