1080p24 support from Blu-ray Players? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 02-21-2006, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe that the Pioneer representative wrote that the upcoming Elite player would output 1080p24fps, which I'm interested in because of my Qualia projector. While I've got no problems at all with Pioneer products, I would gravitate to Sony, all things being equal.

I'm looking for confirmation of whether the Sony BDP-S1 will have the same support? It would be a slap in the face if the Sony player didn't provide such support, and only output 1080p60 (since it will cost nearly $4,000 to upgrade to such an input on the projector).

Any insights?

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post #2 of 24 Old 02-22-2006, 02:45 PM
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Well the older Qualia PJ accepts 1080p/24 psf signals. I don't think any of the players output this "sort-of" interlaced signal (Sony was quite short sited in this when the Qualia was first released). I've only read of 1080p/24 and 1080p/60, and mostly 1080p/60.

You might want to start saving up for that new board, or sell it and get a Ruby.

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post #3 of 24 Old 02-28-2006, 08:20 PM
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Which one is better 1080p/24fps or 1080p/60fps? If 1080p/60fps is better how come the upcoming blu-ray players won't output that?
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 12:12 AM
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Well, if the source material is film based at 24 fps, if you encode it natively at 24 fps and have the choice of the player outputting it at 24 fps without conversion, then you could have an outboard scaler or display that could convert it to a 72 Hz refresh rate. No visible flicker (a higher refresh rate means each full video frame is "painted" on the screen faster) and no motion judder due to a more pure film rate speed up. By only outputting 1080p/60, you still can get judder due to the imperfect 2:3 frame pull-down to get you the ~30 fps video frame rate, which is then doubled to 60 (hence, 60 Hz, which is the standard video display refresh rate for NTSC and ATSC).

There is nothing in the specs. for either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (at least not on paper) to encode anything at 1080p/60, even if the source was shot (via upscale HD video cameras) or even filmed that way (60 fps). This was very short sighted as ESPN and a few other companies wanted to archive sporting events (at least) with the high resolution of 1920x1080 pixels (or use re-tooled film cameras for the extra resolution benefits of film), the advantages of progressive scanning (interlaced, in comparison, sucks) and the much higher frame rate for far smoother action. Studios tend to think way inside the box, don't you think?

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post #5 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 05:25 AM
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I imagine someone will offer 1080P24sf....

I probably won't do th upgrade (too expensive for what you get) but the low light output of the Ruby and lack of long throw make it a deal killer for me..

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Satullo
I believe that the Pioneer representative wrote that the upcoming Elite player would output 1080p24fps, which I'm interested in because of my Qualia projector. While I've got no problems at all with Pioneer products, I would gravitate to Sony, all things being equal.

I'm looking for confirmation of whether the Sony BDP-S1 will have the same support? It would be a slap in the face if the Sony player didn't provide such support, and only output 1080p60 (since it will cost nearly $4,000 to upgrade to such an input on the projector).

Any insights?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:
Well, if no 1080P24sf comesto be, perhaps we can knock down the upgrade cost by having Josh making a trip out for both of us. I am just NW of you outside Detroit...:D

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 11:37 AM
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So 1080p/24fps is better. That makes sense in why ESPN is doing sporting events in 720p instead of 1080i.
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 11:46 AM
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Since Sony's VW100 (Ruby) projector doesn't support 1080p24sf over any digital input, but does take 1080p48, I would like to see the Sony player support 1080p48. I could probably get it with a scaler, but would like to have the option of saving that cost and complexity.

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 02:15 PM
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The Pioneer player WILL do 1080p24sf - I have confirmed this with several sources.

Also, 1080p24sf is a transport format which the Qualia - and most other pro gear supports.

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post #10 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterS
The Pioneer player WILL do 1080p24sf - I have confirmed this with several sources.

Also, 1080p24sf is a transport format which the Qualia - and most other pro gear supports.
Pete,

I know you have a source but I am only referencing the posted PDF spec sheet of the Pioneer that doesn't list 1080P24sf as an output res....

Also, does your source know if DD PLUS will be on it or at least enable via a firmware update? I did not see that listed either (though DTS HD is listed on the sheet).

Thanks!!!

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post #11 of 24 Old 03-01-2006, 02:39 PM
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Last I heard DD Plus is an issue they are working on. Something to do with Dolby licensing and decoding in the player or not. Has yet to be determined.

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post #12 of 24 Old 03-03-2006, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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It sure seems like this item from Ultimate AV (subject of another thread) answers the question about the Sony player:

Quote:
During the Q&A session, Sony's Don Eklund confirmed that Sony and MGM titles would be encoded on the discs at 1080/24p. The user will set the player to convert this native resolution as required to match the capability of his or her display. For most displays, the user will set the player for 1080/30i or 1080/60p. But if your display will accept 1080p/24 you can set it for that output, and the display will presumably double or (preferably) triple the frame rate to eliminate flicker. A display rate of 1080p/48 or 1080p/72 would eliminate the need for 3/2 pulldown, producing smoother motion and minimizing artifacts.
The thread is located here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=651463

Obviously, if you can "set [the Blu-ray player] for [1080/24p] output," then the Sony player will in fact output that resolution. This would almost certainly eliminate any need (at least for me) to upgrade the Qualia, or, for that matter, to consider an outboard processor.

If that is the way that the discs are encoded, it would also seem that more than just Sony and Pioneer will offer variable outputs on their players.

Nick :cool:
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-03-2006, 10:04 AM
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Ditto that Nick...

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-04-2006, 11:07 AM
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Yeah, but the older Qualia 1080p projector can't accept 1080p/24 (full progressive) signals just 1080/24 psF, which I don't think these players will output as the discs aren't encoded that way. Those owners still need the upgrade board.

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post #15 of 24 Old 03-04-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman
Yeah, but the older Qualia 1080p projector can't accept 1080p/24 (full progressive) signals just 1080/24 psF, which I don't think these players will output as the discs aren't encoded that way. Those owners still need the upgrade board.

Dan
24sF is easy to get from true 24P. However they may not include the hardwrae to do that in the players as 24sF is mostly a professional format.

But someone like Key Digital could make a convertor that took in 24P and output 24sF. I would estimate retail cost of $1K based on the limited number of units to be sold.

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post #16 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 04:27 AM
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NEWS ABOUT THE SONY PLAYER:

the first sony player "will output 24p" opposite to the first plan to output
only 60i.

so we will have at least 2 players in the beginning that support that format but i am not sure how the output the 24p.
24p/24psf/48p???

hope we can select it from the player.
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 04:57 AM
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Well, let's hope it's 24Sf....That said, I wouldn't upgrade my machine [Qualia] anyways....1080i D-Theater looks spectacular. So if I am stuck with 1080i input from BluRay, I'd still be quite happy with the PQ.

Though a 24P to 24sf converter would be an option I'd buy...

That said, Peter S has been very confident of his Pioneer source insuring a 1080P24sf output!!

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post #18 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 04:59 AM
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Curious if anyone has tried a 24P source into their Qualia to see if it may accept it?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the events of yesterday have made the issue moot for me. In the too-long-of-a-story category, I had to unplug the Qualia. That led to some type of malfunction in the 50 foot HDMI cable, and it led to the HDMI input on the Qualia failing altogether. These conclusions were reached after significant troubleshooting.

So . . . the concierge has indicated that the dealer must faciliate a warranty repair on the unit, which means that the dreaded dismount/remount must occur . . . and the unit gets shipped to Texas. Since I'm going that far, I probably will opt for the upgrade, sheerly because the unit will be there. Another pain will be fishing out the HDMI cable and returning it to Audioquest.

Nick :cool:
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 06:44 AM
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I think if I were in your shoes, I opt for it too..Sorry to hear about that.

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post #21 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 09:08 AM
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i have try long time ago to feed 24p to the qualia.
it not understand this format and also not with the upgrade.

jeff:
i have blu ray since some months and i can assure you if you sit close enough
to the screen( less than 1.5 times the screen wide) you
can see easy with a good transfer the difference between
d theater that are filtered to max 1450pixel and bd that are full 1920.
at least with your pr.
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 10:46 AM
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Wolfgang,

Can you try 24P into the Qualia?? To see if it accepts the signal?


Thanks! I do sit at approx 1.5 time the screen width

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post #23 of 24 Old 03-05-2006, 01:55 PM
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jeff
the qualia can not do 24p input.
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-06-2006, 11:05 AM
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I too hope that some of the HD-DVD and/or Blue-Ray players support 1080p24sf. Does the qualia upgrade that allows 1080p/60 also support 1080p/24 as well? At any rate I would think 1080p24sf would be easier to add as an output format than 1080p/24 anyways, that is I would expect an output section that can handle 1080p/24 to handle 1080p24sf as well.
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