BluRay vs HD DVD - HD DVD better now???? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:13 PM
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By the way you are wrong it will be about the same as the samsung.
Lets compare apples to apples ok we are talking about the Elite Pioneer player being cheaper than the Sony Hi-end unit ....
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post #92 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by REWJR
Because IMO it will be cheaper than the Sony one ....



You'll be hanging onto that disk for awhile mabey q4 2007 ...
Back these two statements up, please.

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post #93 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:16 PM
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Back these two statements up, please.
Traditionally Sony has always had higher price points for there elite models ...
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post #94 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:17 PM
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and you know this how??? you have any facts to back it up?? are you talking about a es sony blu-ray player??
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post #95 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:20 PM
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talking about a es sony blu-ray player??
If that is what there hi-end line is still called then yes IMO traditionally they will be a premium over other brands...
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post #96 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:21 PM
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I will agree with you on that just like most brands have there higher end products that cost more.
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post #97 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:36 PM
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Article on Panasonic 50GB Betaray blank disk pricing -

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage...106104417.html
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post #98 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWJR
Because IMO it will be cheaper than the Sony one ....

Response:
Traditionally Sony has always had higher price points for there elite models ...
You're guessing. That HAS happened before, yes. But we honestly don't know yet, one way or the other. Yes, the Elites, the ES's, and all of those lines cost more.





Quote:
Originally Posted by REWJR
2.) You'll be hanging onto that disk for awhile mabey q4 2007 ...
Am I going to see any backup or explanation for this? Concrete and meaningful, that is?

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post #99 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:42 PM
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Sony's shares fell as much as 4.4 percent on Monday after Merrill Lynch said in a research note last week that the PS3's launch might be delayed by six to 12 months and the cost of production could initially approach $900 per unit.



http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1928792,00.asp
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post #100 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:44 PM
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That has already been debunked a week or so ago. how many times we have to see this rehashed story?
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post #101 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWJR
Let's take a look at it:

Quote:
TOKYO (Reuters) - Sony Corp.'s launch of its next-generation PlayStation 3 video game console could be delayed if industry specifications for some of its technology are not finalized soon, although it is still aiming for a spring rollout, it said on Monday.
Spring could be as late as June. This is talking about this year, 2006.


Quote:

The launch of PlayStation 3 (PS3) has been the subject of heavy speculation in the industry as expectations are high for the powerful machine, which will feature cutting-edge technology in its DVD player, processors and graphics.

PS3 will be competing with Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360, which went on sale last November, and Nintendo Co. Ltd.'s Revolution, which is expected later this year.

"We're aiming for spring, but we haven't announced specific regions," a spokeswoman for Sony Computer Entertainment said, adding that it was waiting for the final specifications on some of the technology it is using in the PS3, such as that related to the Blu-ray DVD drive and to input and output video and sound.
See what she said?

In the past, Sony has launched their systems in Japan first, let it sink in for several months, then the US, and then Europe comes in at the tail end.


Quote:
The specifications are decided by industry consortiums.

"We're waiting for them until the last possible minute, but the launch could be pushed back if they're not decided soon," the spokeswoman said. If the PS3 is not ready in time, the company will choose the next best timing for the launch, she said.
Sure. Makes sense.

Quote:
Sony has been promising a spring launch but has been deliberately vague about exactly when that would be. Analysts have said it could mean anytime between March and the end of Japan's rainy season in June.
I'd be amazed if it were sooner than June.

Quote:

Sony's shares fell as much as 4.4 percent on Monday after Merrill Lynch said in a research note last week that the PS3's launch might be delayed by six to 12 months and the cost of production could initially approach $900 per unit.

The shares closed down 3.6 percent at 5,300 yen, underperforming the Tokyo stock market's electrical machinery index IELEC, which fell 1.85 percent.
FWIW, it's important to note that Sony did issue a press release that denounced the ML findings.


Quote:

Manufacturers typically sell new game consoles at a loss initially to gain market share so they can later make money by selling software—a $25 billion global market.

But the higher-than-expected cost estimate by Merrill means Sony will have to take a much larger loss on each PS3 unit it sells or sacrifice market share to Microsoft, which is selling its Xbox 360 for about $400.

Sony currently has about 70 percent of the global market for game consoles, but some analysts have said it could lose as much as 20 percentage points to Microsoft, which is making an aggressive push to increase its 15 percent share.

Nintendo, which also has a 15 percent market share, is taking a different strategy as it aims to increase the number of game players with a unique console and original games.

Merrill Lynch also downgraded its rating on Sony to "sell" from "neutral", saying in its note that Sony could see its earnings decline in the business year from April.

SPRING LAUNCH 'UNREALISTIC'

Most analysts took the report in stride as they already expected Sony to launch the PS3 this summer in Japan, followed by a U.S. launch before the Thanksgiving holiday in November. They expect a launch in Europe in early 2007.
Exactly. This is what we've all been saying and have known for a while.

There's simply no way in hell that Sony will forfeit TWO holiday seasons in a row to Microsoft and the Xbox 360.

Why Europe always gets tagged way late like that is beyond me. If I were a European gamer, I'd be long since sick of this routine by now. ;)


Quote:

"No one is seriously thinking a spring release is realistic any more," said Hiroshi Kamide, an analyst at KBC Securities. "If I were Sony, I wouldn't be that worried about releasing as soon as I possibly could."

Kamide said Sony may wait until it is fully prepared, especially after seeing slow initial sales of Microsoft's Xbox 360 even though it was launched in time for the holidays.

Having led the worldwide console gaming market for the last decade, Sony is counting on the new machine to dominate in all aspects of networked home entertainment—games, movies, music and more.

Yuta Sakurai, a senior analyst at Nomura Securities, said the price of the PS3 was more important than its timing.

"I don't think it matters when Sony launches in the U.S. as long as it's in time for Christmas," Sakurai said.
Exactly. That's all that matters. They know they HAVE to, come hell or high water.


Quote:
He expects Sony to try to launch the PS3 in Japan in early summer, in time for the big selling season when schools go on holiday in July.
This is all THIS YEAR, 2006 talk, folks!


Quote:

Sakurai estimated that Sony could charge at most 50,000 yen ($420) for the console.


That's it??!? Show all the FUD-meisters that figure!

Thank you REWJR! This is great!


SPECS:
Quote:
Retail price estimates by analysts in Japan vary widely from about 40,000 yen to several times that much, primarily because of all of the technology that is packed into the machine, which is expected to be the size of a laptop computer.

The PS3, which can be played simultaneously by up to seven people, will be powered by the "Cell" chip, which is significantly more powerful than Intel Corp.'s Pentium 4, the most common chip for today's PCs and existing game machine processors.

It will also feature a super-powerful graphics chip, a built-in Ethernet port for high-speed Internet access, and Blu-ray, a next-generation DVD format backed by Sony.

Analysts generally agree that Sony will do whatever it can to avoid missing the key year-end holiday season this year, but many believe it will be unable to make the PS3 in great volumes.
Not a surprise again. We probably can expect PS2 like shortages again or Xbox 360 like shortages again. THIS YEAR. 2006.

It's a pity this shortage thing has become so common a routine. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Game development for the PS3 is also seen being delayed because the technology specifications have not been finalised.

"Game makers are developing games according to their guesses on what the final specifications might be," said Takeshi Tajima, a BNP Paribas analyst.

($1=118.30 Yen)
I don't see how this supports the idea of PS3 not making it out in 2006 AT ALL.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #102 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 02:57 PM
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FWIW, it's important to note that Sony did issue a press release that denounced the ML findings.
That is because thet are hemoraging money and stock price is the score ...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6144600.html

http://news.com.com/PlayStation+3+co...3-6042226.html

Quote:
don't see how this supports the idea of PS3 not making it out in 2006 AT ALL.
The AACS licensing specs are delayed therby delaying final hardware roll out ...
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post #103 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by REWJR
That is because thet are hemoraging money and stock price is the score ...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6144600.html
Dated: Feb 20, at the beginning of the business week.

What happened after this date? Anyone?


http://news.com.com/PlayStation+3+co...3-6042226.html[/quote]

^^ This is a good article with a lot of links to other good articles.

But as desperately as I know you want it to happen, you must pay attention to the language, which features a lot of "IF-THEN" statements.

I'm amazed at this:
Quote:

Though Sony hasn't disclosed the price of the PS3, analysts figure it will have to be in the ballpark of $299 to $399--the price for the two versions of the Xbox 360. PS3 pricing speculation has heated up in recent days, along with rumors that the long-awaited game console could be delayed for up to a year.
$399?! $420?! You keep posting GREAT news, REWJR!

Note the bolded items?


Do we have to go through the entire week on this forum over again just for you? It just isn't there for you, buddy!

:rolleyes:

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post #104 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:03 PM
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Do we have to go through the entire week on this forum over again just for you?
Come on you love it makes your Betaray day :)
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post #105 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by REWJR
Come on you love it makes your day :)

or



Come on you love it makes your Betaray day :)
You're not interested in a real discussion. That much is obvious.

You're basically admitting right here the obvious: Your trolling this thread for no good reason, and I'm shooting down your FUD left and right.

You're doing it to yourself! The very articles you posted are working against you!

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post #106 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:06 PM
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This has already been discussed. we dont need to go back to last week again.
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post #107 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinca1
This has already been discussed. we dont need to go back to last week again.

REWJR has done exactly what the mods have told me they don't like to see around here: Starting HD-DVD vs. BR arguments.

If this last page hasn't been a clear violation of that, and a series of nothing but troll posts...I don't know what is!

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #108 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:11 PM
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REWJR has done exactly what the mods have told me they don't like to see around here: Starting HD-DVD vs. BR arguments.

If this last page hasn't been a clear violation of that, and a series of nothing but troll posts...I don't know what is!
I'd say you are taking things a little personally with over the top trollacious comments perhaps a little chill is in order .
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post #109 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWJR
I'd say you are taking things a little personally with over the top trollacious comments perhaps a little chill is in order .
Oh the humanity. A troll telling others not to troll.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #110 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:27 PM
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Sure Fox is signed up now, but the only studios that seem to be interested in exploiting the medium out of the gate with a good selection of new releases and catalog titles are Sony and Warner.
Paulidan: agree. But why focus on Fox and BD. if HD-DVD supporters are right there is still 6 months or more before BD shows up, a bit less info is normal. Isn't it more frightening that except for Warner no other studio has given any info? March (HD-DVD launch) is in a few days, when will the announcement of dates for Paramount and Universal show up.
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post #111 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H
Not necessary to become a Club Member, troll away.....
Figured trolling was frowned upon but since you're promoting it I've got some catching up to do in the HD DVD forums. :p
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post #112 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWJR
Panasonic said there 60 GB Betaray blank disks will cost $60 ....add this to the Pioneer player $1800 and you could by alot of HD-DVD door stops...:)
Sorry, but I don't get it. I thought the Pioneer is a player only, not a recorder, so the price of a blank disc is irrelevant. Blanks for both formats are going to be very expensive for a while.
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post #113 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:33 PM
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Bill your not the only one that don't get any of his post.
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post #114 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert
Your motivation is highly suspect. And such an emphasis on $500 difference in price strikes me coming from the owner of a JVC HD2K and a Vantage HD. And don't give me that "I could afford the scaler because of my savings on the Toshiba HD DVD". I don't buy it.
You know what? Yesterday I tried to take any personal tone out of the opinions I stated, because I'm pretty confident the arguments stand on their own merit.

Bu no, you folks throw insinuations and insults left right and centre to obliterate any serious discussion and base the "winner" on who call the most nonsense out loud. You three (with Q-bandit and Earz) are like a three man cult - it's slightly hilarious...

I HONESTLY don't CARE which format wins - I'm just looking for this stuff to be more affordable sooner. I have no afiliation with any of the entities involved in this format war, which is more than I think anyone looking at this discussion would assume of all of you, given the religious fervor displayed.

The fact that you've gone to the trouble of looking up all my past posts so you can "quote" what equipment I have MAY be just one indication of an unhealthy obsession. You forgot to mention my really nice Denon 3805 Amp Receiver, My B&W PV1 Subwoofer (which I think is FAB), my Magneplanar ribbon speakers (lovely) and my Mordaunt-Short GENIE surrounds!

And I've got 3 different models of D-Theatre decks as well - and I love em, and have enjoyed the format for years. Really handy for building a decent library of hidef satellite movies also.

So what? Are you saying that someone who's excited by video technology and has a little cash to set aside for it has no place having an opinion? Or are you saying that I am in "cahoots" with some evil other side and can't be trusted?

Come on fella's... I'm typing this warm and fuzzy response on my Sony VAIO S580 laptop. I flew back to England yesterday falling asleep with hours of music from my Sony CLIE PEG-TH55 playing through my Sony noise-cancelling earbuds.

I was an early adopter of the JVC HD2K because I found it a better projector for me than the Qalia 004 was at the time, because the Qalia didn't have 1080p input at any thing other than 48 fps - which I felt was pretty useless to a consumer like me. If you look back at my posts you'll probably be able to find that too. If I was making the purchase again today, I would probably buy the Sony VW100. I think its a better projector than the 004, because it accepts 50p and 60p and I found it very quiet when I demoed it (it's no secret that the HD2K is a bit too loud).

So what's the problem?

I'm not going to waste the same time running around cutting and pasting movie titles from various lists and comparing sizes. I've already shopped the lists of movie releases promised for both formats and already said that there are some must-haves on BR - but there is equipment coming now and more must-haves (in my view) on HD DVD. A lot of the BR-exclusive titles have already been on satellite anyway, so I can view those while I wait.

I've already said I'll probably pick up a BR machine, but not until it's truly price-competitive. I've sunk some good money into this hobby, but I spend it smart. I've sunk good money into the display, the speakers and the video and audio processors. I view the player as a transport, my choice I'm sorry to say, not yours.

I can respect SOME of your points, and your opinion. But you if are just blind to any logical statement anyone makes if it upsets your beliefs, then you may not see that there are all kinds of possible outcomes to any situation out there.

Two years ago, a consumer video processor to output 1080p and deinterlace 1080i line-for-line wasn't even in circulation. 8 months ago, it would have cost me $8,000. 2 days ago, I picked up a Vantage for about a quarter of that.

And that's the whole point here. Making smart choices is about a lot more than just making a lot of noise and farting loud and running obnoxious "BS" signs up an animated flagpole. It's about getting this technology into the hands of more and more consumers, quicker and cheaper, so that we can all start benefiting from more content.

Forget about 150 titles - when do we get 15,000? There won't be two formats around at that point and I'd like to hurry up and get there, because the studios will never undertake that many releases to two formats.

So if Toshiba makes a smart play and goes for the mass-market sooner than the other party can even get a machine out - fantastic. If someone analyses the situation and makes a cogent argument as to why the format might have a lead on BR, then live with it. You don't have to agree (you are grown men, right?)

So I tried being nice - and now you've simply irritated me (and probably everyone else who has read your tomes).

I stand by my opinion and I stand by my statement that I don't care which format "wins", just as long as they hurry up and do it, because it's annoying me that this "format war" will delay a REAL selection of titles arriving to either format.

And if you don't like someone else having an opinion that doesn't match yours, go jump in a lake with the other kids. (Dear moderator - I hope that wasn't too harsh - sincere apologies, but it needed to be said)

Should they have merged the formats? Probably. But they didn't and someone's going to lose big. Is that my fault - no. But let's get it over with as soon as possible. It'll be better for everyone.
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post #115 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:41 PM
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You say there are must haves on hd-dvd's correct, The only studio not supporting blu-ray is universal, so if its only universal are you saying that all the other studio support will not be the same for blu-ray which has been proven it will. Why woud you buy a player for only one studio?
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post #116 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:46 PM
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rdjam,

I have no time for feigned indignation.

You can tell me you like Keira Knightley better than Scarlett Johansson. Just don't say you like Keira better because her lbreasts are bigger. :p

...if you catch my drift...

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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post #117 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinca1
You say there are must haves on hd-dvd's correct, The only studio not supporting blu-ray is universal, so if its only universal are you saying that all the other studio support will not be the same for blu-ray which has been proven it will. Why woud you buy a player for only one studio?
"Minister of BluRay" ?? I rest my case - this is not a religion, fellas...
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post #118 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grubert
rdjam,

I have no time for feigned indignation.

You can tell me you like Keira Knightley better than Scarlett Johansson. Just don't say you like Keira better because her lbreasts are bigger. :p

...if you catch my drift...
Hmmm, nope...
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post #119 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:51 PM
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It is a joke, someone said we should start a church of blu-ray and i volunteered to be the minister. you also didnt answer my question.
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post #120 of 158 Old 02-26-2006, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam
Hmmm, nope...
Blu-ray has more studio support. It may happen that precisely everything that Blu-ray offers doesn't interest you, and that you adore everything that is coming out on HD DVD (well, disregarding the stuff released on both formats). If you can't live without 40-year-old Virgin on HD, to each their own. But statistically, you'll be missing more from four studios than from one.

You have to look beyond the immediate future. Even if the Sony release titles do nothing for me, I know they'll release Dr Strangelove, which is one of my personal favourites. And they won't release it on HD DVD. And so on and so forth.

You admit that in hindsight you should have probably waited before investing on your projector. This is the same. The benefit of enjoying HD disc a month earlier could eventually be very costly.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
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