One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 103 - AVS Forum
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post #3061 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 06:05 AM
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I apolgize if this has been asked, but the thread is 100pgs+. I've been watching HD-DVDs (Toshiba A2). I want to try BR. It seems that PS3 is the most cost effective player. For BR playback only (I don't game at all), Is there any advantage to going with the 60gb model over the 20gb? Do they sell it at Costco? Can someone point me to the best price from a reputable etailer? Thanks.
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post #3062 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

I apolgize if this has been asked, but the thread is 100pgs+. I've been watching HD-DVDs (Toshiba A2). I want to try BR. It seems that PS3 is the most cost effective player. For BR playback only (I don't game at all), Is there any advantage to going with the 60gb model over the 20gb? Do they sell it at Costco? Can someone point me to the best price from a reputable etailer? Thanks.

The 60gb model adds wireless connectivity, mem card readers, and of course more HDD space. Strictly for BD playback, the 20gb model is fine. Costco sells a PS3 bundle with games. Right now I seriously doubt you'll find a new 20gb model for less than $500 the 60gb model goes for $600. From what I've read it's either feast or famine on availibility for either model. In some parts of the country, retailers can't keep them on the shelves, in some parts they're gathering dust. Check out any of the big name online stores if you can't find one locally.

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post #3063 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

I apolgize if this has been asked, but the thread is 100pgs+. I've been watching HD-DVDs (Toshiba A2). I want to try BR. It seems that PS3 is the most cost effective player. For BR playback only (I don't game at all), Is there any advantage to going with the 60gb model over the 20gb? Do they sell it at Costco? Can someone point me to the best price from a reputable etailer? Thanks.

No, there is no advantage unless you absolutely need wi-fi instead of a wired ethernet connection. Although it's easier to update online, you don't have to connect it to a network at all, since you could install the updates with a USB key. The only non-game purpose of connecting to the network would then be for downloading HD trailers. The bigger hard drive would only come into play if you wanted to put and keep media on it (20GB is plenty for downloading trailers temporarily).

As for prices, bear in mind that game consoles are not like other CE products where the price varies from store to store. Any reduction in price you could get would be a general deal like a coupon that takes a certain amount off the purchase of anything, but sometimes even those deals exclude game hardware. Any official price drop is big news and takes effect everywhere, although sometimes there are bundles where you get something free with it, but those would probably include a game, not a movie.
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post #3064 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Freshmeat36 View Post

I've been away from the thread for a while and on a different thread read that the PS3 is now displaying BTB and WTW??? Is this true?? I was under the impression that it did not. If I am correct, I believe that quite a few people on this thread took issue with that. So has it been fixed or was the other threads info not entirely correct?
Thanks,
Chris

Little Bump
Could anyone answer this for me please?
Thank You,
Chris
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post #3065 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Freshmeat36 View Post

Little Bump
Could anyone answer this for me please?
Thank You,
Chris

I haven't heard anything about BTB and WTW being displayed now. Got a link to that thread?

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post #3066 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuichiror View Post

I haven't heard anything about BTB and WTW being displayed now. Got a link to that thread?

I wouldn't quote the source as anything credible but here you go its in post # 13.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788813

I presently view on a WD-65831 and mostly have a great picture on all sources to an unbelievable picture on 1080p sources. On occasion though I do experience what I would consider to be quite a bit of black and white crush. Mostly in the short clip in Ice Age with the squirrel time traveling. I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not its due to the PS3 or a need for professional calibration.
Thanks,
Chris
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post #3067 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

I apolgize if this has been asked, but the thread is 100pgs+. I've been watching HD-DVDs (Toshiba A2). I want to try BR. It seems that PS3 is the most cost effective player. For BR playback only (I don't game at all), Is there any advantage to going with the 60gb model over the 20gb? Do they sell it at Costco? Can someone point me to the best price from a reputable etailer? Thanks.

For me there was an advantage to get the 60G, the WiFi is simple to setup & no wires, I really like the card readers myself, looking at my pics on a 70" screen is sweet!
I download & keep a lot of movie trailers so the extra hard drive space is nice & a WiFi adapter alone is going to set you back the $100 difference so the card readers & extra 40G are a freebie!

IMO it's cheaper to upgrade to the 60G now than finding out later you need or want those features.

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post #3068 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmeat36 View Post

Little Bump
Could anyone answer this for me please?
Thank You,
Chris

no it does not display BTB and WTW, I tested it on firmware 1.51 and HDMI. It might display via component but I havent tested it.
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post #3069 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 10:20 AM
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Got it! Thats what I thought.
Thanks,
Chris
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post #3070 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmeat36 View Post

I wouldn't quote the source as anything credible but here you go its in post # 13.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=788813...

I don't understand what that poster was saying. What does color encoding (4:4:4 R'G'B' vs. 4:2:2 Y'CbCr) have to do with pedestal ("PC vs. video" levels)?

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post #3071 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 12:02 PM
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I got the 60 Gb model because that was easier to find. In retrospect, I'm glad that I did. There are a lot of HD movie trailers available for download. The download process is seemlessly integrated with the PS3 user interface. I've already used up quite a bit of disk space on downloaded trailers. The unit is actually a fairly capable media center, capble of handling video, audio, and stills.

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post #3072 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

no it does not display BTB and WTW, I tested it on firmware 1.51 and HDMI. It might display via component but I havent tested it.

guess I will update my original response then, fails using 1.51 and HDMI and i have the colospace set to auto so not sure if using RGB or Ypr output. If I get a chance I will test the two different outputs. Like people mentioned if your set is calibrated properly then passing BTB and WTW doesnt really buy you anything anyways.

Edit: Another update after reading that thread you posted. The video clip I am using to test BTB and WTW is stored on my harddrive and accessed via XMB. Dont have a blueray disk to test it that way.
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post #3073 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshmeat36 View Post

I've been away from the thread for a while and on a different thread read that the PS3 is now displaying BTB and WTW??? Is this true?? I was under the impression that it did not. If I am correct, I believe that quite a few people on this thread took issue with that. So has it been fixed or was the other threads info not entirely correct?

It has not been fixed. On displays that are calibrated to the correct BTB and peak white levels, you lose shadow detail on some titles as information close to the peak values is clipped. On most titles, you probably won't notice a difference.

If you crank up your display settings to compensate for the inability of the PS3 to pass BTB, you compress the picture's dynamic range.
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post #3074 of 32090 Old 02-14-2007, 06:47 PM
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FYI: I'm sure everyone's noticed this, but the PS3 defaults to digital processing ON, there are two settings defaulted to "3". I turned them off.

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post #3075 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

FYI: I'm sure everyone's noticed this, but the PS3 defaults to digital processing ON, there are two settings defaulted to "3". I turned them off.

I believe this is only for SD DVD, not blu ray. Correct?
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post #3076 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 10:37 AM
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I've done a search through this thread but I still need to ask: what is the general consensus of the audio quality over optical for Blu-ray movies? I know the Xbox 360 add-on has software related issues that are going to be fixed in an upcoming patch, but I haven't heard good or bad about the PS3 over optical. I am not going to replace my $800 Onkyo receiver just to get HDMI.
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post #3077 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NoThru22 View Post

I've done a search through this thread but I still need to ask: what is the general consensus of the audio quality over optical for Blu-ray movies? I know the Xbox 360 add-on has software related issues that are going to be fixed in an upcoming patch, but I haven't heard good or bad about the PS3 over optical. I am not going to replace my $800 Onkyo receiver just to get HDMI.

It's pretty darn good. I'm using optical with my PS3 and Onkyo avr and the sound is considerably better when playing BD's. In fact when you play a BD that has the DTS tracks, you'll get the 150kbps version(compressed lossy core) vs the 75kbps you get on most SD's.

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post #3078 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 10:49 AM
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Yeah, it's 640kbps Dolby Digital, which is a higher bitrate than on DVDs. Fox's titles have the full bitrate DTS core (around 1500kbps).

The issue with the HD DVD add-on is that it's converting the lossy Dolby Digital Plus format into regular DD. Here, they're DD to begin with, so there's no lossy->lossy conversion taking place.
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post #3079 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

It has not been fixed. On displays that are calibrated to the correct BTB and peak white levels, you lose shadow detail on some titles as information close to the peak values is clipped. On most titles, you probably won't notice a difference.

If you crank up your display settings to compensate for the inability of the PS3 to pass BTB, you compress the picture's dynamic range.

If only BTB is being clicked how can you lose shadow detail above black? If it's below black it will show up as black which is the lowest level your digital display is going to project. Why would one ever "crank up" their display settings to compensate for BTB being clicked since you won't see it no matter how high you raise the black level?
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post #3080 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

If only BTB is being clicked how can you lose shadow detail above black? If it's below black it will show up as black which is the lowest level your digital display is going to project. Why would one ever "crank up" their display settings to compensate for BTB being clicked since you won't see it no matter how high you raise the black level?

If BTB is on the disc (it is present on some) you will lose shadow detail, it is displayed as "black". That's a tradeoff of using a digital display vs a good CRT. On digital displays clipping WTW probaby has a more significant impact. Most digital displays can display brighter than reference white with correct calibration. When WTW is clipped all the affected video is "crushed" down to reference white.

Also there's two ways for BTB and WTW to be "clipped". The PS3 really does "clip". 16-235 is sent intact and the data on either side is sent as the respective "end point". BTB and WTW disappearing because of PC RGB conversion is really caused by the value being "pushed out" or "pushed off" then end of the scale. 16-235 is converted to 0-255 which not only loses BTB and WTW it also distorts the dynamic range of the video. This is where some people have to crank up black level because 16 to the display used to mean black (show as no light) now "black" is coming in at 0 so you have to increase black level to make the reference "black" pattern be black on the display. If they ever fix the problem on the PS3 your calibration most likely will not change if it is correctly set now. Not so for those using the Tosh players with DVI input on the display (if Toshiba fixes the problem).

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post #3081 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

If BTB is on the disc (it is present on some) you will lose shadow detail, it is displayed as "black". That's a tradeoff of using a digital display vs a good CRT. On digital displays clipping WTW probaby has a more significant impact. Most digital displays can display brighter than reference white with correct calibration. When WTW is clipped all the affected video is "crushed" down to reference white.

To my thinking (perhaps only mine) you would not be losing any shadow detail since the display was calibrated accordingly. Anything below black would be displayed as black whether it was being clicked or not. The same can be said about WTW as you typically calibrate white as being the brightest image that can be displayed.

Quote:


Also there's two ways for BTB and WTW to be "clipped". The PS3 really does "clip". 16-235 is sent intact and the data on either side is sent as the respective "end point". BTB and WTW disappearing because of PC RGB conversion is really caused by the value being "pushed out" or "pushed off" then end of the scale. 16-235 is converted to 0-255 which not only loses BTB and WTW it also distorts the dynamic range of the video. This is where some people have to crank up black level because 16 to the display used to mean black (show as no light) now "black" is coming in at 0 so you have to increase black level to make the reference "black" pattern be black on the display.

I understand the difference between PC and video levels but I don't see how they relate to crushing above the black level or below the white level. I do see how they can create clipping below black and above white levels. The conversion should leave all values in place (from black to white) and give or take some minor rounding errors everything should still be there if you adjust the display accordingly. I also understand you may alter the dynamic range although again to my eyes all the shadow detail should exist regardless.

The short of it is to my thinking clipping BTB and WTW really has no effect on your digital image and in most cases if it's the result of incorrect video levels it might result in lowering the dynamic range.
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post #3082 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 03:38 PM
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Don't have a PS3 yet but I do have a quick Question:

Can the PS3 output sound through the Toslink AND composite analog stereo (via the AV/Multi Out) at the same time? Or do you have to choose one or the other through an Audio menu setting?

The reason I'm asking is because there are some in my household who are content with the TV speakers while I will not settle for anything less than surround sound from my receiver.

Thanks!
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post #3083 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 03:48 PM
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Guys,

I finally picked up a PS3 last night to go with my Anthem AVM50. I have a few questions that may have been covered, but at 100+ pages, I may have missed them....I have a component video only TV capable of 1080i, however, the Anthem can recieve 1080p, and convert if needed.

The specs state the output resolution of 1080p through component video. I understand that HDCP won't allow BlueRay movies to pass 1080p through component, but what about games?

Is the 1080p "fps" adjustable from 24 film, 30 video, and 60, or does it always convert and output 60fps?

I understand that the HDMI (I want to use for audio only) and Component video isn't operable at the same time?

My TV without HDMI is making life difficult.....

Thanks for any info!
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post #3084 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 04:01 PM
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m396 #00-011,

I will take a stab. 1080p games should be ok out component but you need a game that is 1080p, a bunch of them are 720p. I tested 1080p via component in XMB and it worked fine.

pretty sure 1080p is only currently 60hz , would be nice if they add 24p in the future and maybe they can via a firmware upgrade.
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post #3085 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1920x1080 View Post

I don't understand what that poster was saying. What does color encoding (4:4:4 R'G'B' vs. 4:2:2 Y'CbCr) have to do with pedestal ("PC vs. video" levels)?

Apparently clipping can occur after mapping; post #4 here: http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...10#post3998810

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post #3086 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

...The short of it is to my thinking clipping BTB and WTW really has no effect on your digital image and in most cases if it's the result of incorrect video levels it might result in lowering the dynamic range.

This post may help explain it: http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...&&#post3977342

In the attachment, "all values below 16 and above 235 have been marked as white." So I believe that if your display were calibrated to studio black and white video levels, all detail in the areas colored white in that photo would be lost.

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post #3087 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookerman View Post

Don't have a PS3 yet but I do have a quick Question:

Can the PS3 output sound through the Toslink AND composite analog stereo (via the AV/Multi Out) at the same time? Or do you have to choose one or the other through an Audio menu setting?

The reason I'm asking is because there are some in my household who are content with the TV speakers while I will not settle for anything less than surround sound from my receiver.

Thanks!

One or the other but not both - I tried it.
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post #3088 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

m396 #00-011,

I will take a stab. 1080p games should be ok out component but you need a game that is 1080p, a bunch of them are 720p. I tested 1080p via component in XMB and it worked fine.

pretty sure 1080p is only currently 60hz , would be nice if they add 24p in the future and maybe they can via a firmware upgrade.

I've got a 1080p game that I was trying out. The Anthem will process upto 30hz on component video 1080p, but can only pass-through 60hz. I'm trying to send in 1080p, and come out 1080i on component.

My TV without HDMI/DVI is crippling me. I can't use HDMI, of course because of HDCP, so it kills lossless audio and possible video conversion on my Anthem....

Any chance they will output 480i over HDMI in the future?
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post #3089 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1920x1080 View Post

This post may help explain it: http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...&&#post3977342

In the attachment, "all values below 16 and above 235 have been marked as white." So I believe that if your display were calibrated to studio black and white video levels, all detail in the areas colored white in that photo would be lost.

That image doesn't really address the point I was trying to make although it's a neat image! I think we all agree what's below black and above white will be clipped. Since with a digital display you typically calibrate that to be the case as you set black to the display's lowest output and white to its highest.

It's a given anything outside of that range will either be presented as black or white whether they are being clipped by the player or the display device. It's open to debate the value of seeing levels "beyond" what you are supposed to see based on the meaning of black and white. I'm sure you could adjust the display (if the display is the one clipping) to show what was being clipped but where does that leave the levels of black and white? If you go by the easy definition they wouldn't be set properly and according to many calibration discs you should make BTB disappear (becomes black).

My point was anything inside of black or white should be present (not clipped) and anything outside of both will be presented as black or white. So in the worse case you will not see blacks darker than black or whites brighter than white. What I actually meant was the image isn't affected (to any large degree in actual practice) since the display is already clipping BTB and WTW and everything in between is preserved. My real point is in most cases I think the issue is way overblown.
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post #3090 of 32090 Old 02-15-2007, 08:11 PM
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Another question.

Can you output audio over HDMI, and video over Component at the same time?
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Lcd Hdtv , Blu Ray Players , Blu Ray Movies , Sony , Toshiba , Playstation 3 160gb System
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