One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 32100 Old 10-27-2006, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WriteSimple View Post

Fairly new receiver, yes. Expensive, well not really. You can get a US$250-300 Panasonic HDMI 1.2 receiver now - 1.2 is enough to deliver TrueHD decoded, SACD DSD-converted-to-LPCM, DVD-Audio and DTS HD. Check out Yamaha for 7.1 HDMI receivers.

The fact is that Blu-ray's audio capabilities will be driving sales of most AVR manufacturers.


fuad


I guess I'm just disappointed that 6.1 or 7.1 audio via analogue connections is not an option for the PS3 since many people probably already have receivers that support that connectivity. Don't get me wrong, I know that the Xbox 360 and the HD DVD addon are even more limited audio-wise since it offers neither HDMI nor analouge connections. I also realize that analouge isn't quite as good as HDMI, but I think it should have been an option for BC purposes.

Forgive me for going off-topic for a minute.....

I bought a new receiver about a year ago and it already seems to be obsolete since it doesn't have HDMI connectivity
I really would like to get a new receiver, but the constantly evolving HDMI specs and some of the things I've read about certain receivers having HDMI issues has me scared. I think I'll wait.
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post #902 of 32100 Old 10-27-2006, 08:59 PM
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Dude, dont get caught up in the hype of receiver switching and always chasing the next big thing....3/4 of the hype around new standards always turns out to be ******** anyhow.

TRUEHD was one of the recent rages.....then someone discovered that a full bandwidth DDPlus soundtrack was essentially identical, near losless.....so now TrueHD isn't as big of a deal...its always a game of upgrades...many with questionable benefit (5.1 to 6.1 to 7.1, for example.....know why they did that? So they can sell more receivers by convincing you that "more speakers is better").....

First everyone went out and bought HDMI-Switching Receivers. Then..."AWWWW!" They all cried foul when HDMI Went to 1.2, NOW they're doing it again with 1.3.

Then, people will get 1.3 receivers...and you'll start hearing the reports of, say, "The receiver is crushing blacks when I use it as a switch" or "Its messing up the dynamics of the audio!", and then people will be waiting for the model with the revision inside and....

...on and on it goes

Just enjoy what you have, or else you'll *always* be chasing the next big thing.

I'm still using my Marantz SR7000 from 1998...its 5.1..DD and DTS...has 5.1 analog inputs, seriously, what the hell more could you ask for. I bought an external component switch, and I'll probably have to buy an HDMI switch...but a few hundred for a good HDMI switch is nothing compared to the $1000+ I'd need to spend on a quality receiver that also did HDMI switching.

Enjoy what you have. Upgrade only when absolutely necessary.

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post #903 of 32100 Old 10-27-2006, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evader45 View Post

I think I'll wait.

Good decision. What HeadRusch is saying is true as well; you don't want to be buying CHEAP but BUGGY HDMI 1.0/1 receivers. But the US$250-300 from Panasonic would be a good buy since it's a new implementation of 1.2. It won't decode the advance codecs but at least it gives you a clean digital 5.1-7.1 LPCM input via HDMI.

Coming back to waiting, if you can wait then wait especially if the receiver is working great, you like the sound and it's not yet crumbling to pieces. You can best spend that money on getting a good HDTV if you don't already have it or upgrade your speakers if it needs upgrading. If you've got all of that and you still want to wait, then wait; by CES 2007 there will be new receivers announced with TrueHD/DTS HDMA internal decoding.

As far as lossy vs lossless on HD formats is concerned, it all has to with sampling rate. As far as I know, TrueHD implementation on HD-DVD is only at 16-bit/48 kHz. DD+ at 1.5Mbps that Universal uses is at a higher sampling rate, possibly 20-bit or 24-bit; it is however lossy. Comparing those two, you might lean towards DD+ since it has a higher sampling rate. But if you can compare TrueHD and DD+ at the same sampling rate, I think you'd believe in the lossless God.

As far as the PS3 not having analog outs, it IS the next gen game console that can be had for US$499 at minimum! You want a toaster with that??? It already has the Foreman grill!


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post #904 of 32100 Old 10-28-2006, 12:53 AM
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Yeah, I'm in AVR limbo right now myself. I was so VERY close to getting an Denon 3806 and considering budgeting the necessary for a 4306, but the HDMI situation (all of the current Denon's are 1.1) had me so frustrated I first considered going with a 3805 to save a bit and still have pretty much the same capability (sans HDMI). In the end, I'm staying with the 6.1 HTIB I intended for interim/bedroom duty until at least next year when the HDMI 1.3 AVR's are out.

Sony has their own 7.1 HDMI receivers (ES models), but it's the same situation there. This HTIB has 6 channel analogs, so it's good enough anyway. I have a TOSLink I've been keeping open for the PS3 and that will do fine until the 2007 or 2008 AVR's are out. Analog outs would have better, but that is one feature Sony should be able to reasonably keep for the BDP-S1 without complaint.

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post #905 of 32100 Old 10-28-2006, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

In the end, I'm staying with the 6.1 HTIB I intended for interim/bedroom duty until at least next year when the HDMI 1.3 AVR's are out.

One thing to note about new AVRs is that when it is new, it's not cheap. So don't expect the level of features for the same amount of money you're willing to spend right now.

That being said, just because an AVR has HDMI 1.3 doesn't mean it can automatically decode TrueHD, DTS HDMA or even the DSD bitstream. 1.3 is just a means of carrying the data. The true work will come from the AVR itself.

My guess is that when the AVR with HDMI 1.3 comes out, it'll be split into the 5.1 and the 7.1 line. Out of that, there will be ones with DD+, TrueHD and DTS HDMA decoding and ones with all of that plus MLP (DVD-Audio) and DSD (SACD) decoding.


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post #906 of 32100 Old 10-28-2006, 07:55 AM
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New XMB PS3 video from PSM3 magazine...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCPOob3Bya4&eurl=

Apart from the fact that they're testing it at 480i, i was wondering: why the hell can't the gaming sites who have access to the ps3 go through ALL of the video and audio output options? Is it so difficult? Maybe it's not important to them, but for a lot of their readers it is!
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post #907 of 32100 Old 10-28-2006, 05:23 PM
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Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio both can do 24/192 resolution at 6 channels and 24/96 at 8 channels, the same as raw LPCM... at least for Blu-Ray. HD-DVD is pretty similar.

Studios have to choose to go for the best audio quality by using their 24 bit masters. Some do, and some don't... and some like Disney are all over the place.

Given a DD+ track and a lossless track, I'd rather have the lossless.

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post #908 of 32100 Old 10-29-2006, 10:18 AM
 
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Well Toys'r'us did pre-orders today....I missed it.
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post #909 of 32100 Old 10-29-2006, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Well, I wouldn't expect its PQ and audio to be among the best by a long shot, they'll save that for their $1000+ flagship BR players. Adequate is probably a better way to describe it. Plus, you wont be able to integrate it into your universal remote (last time I checked).

Its already painful for Sony that they are giving away a free BR player with every PS3 GAME system sold, I wouldn't expect it to be anything more than adequate at playing back movies.

Last time I checked the PS3 didn't have any 5.1 or 7.1 analog outputs correct? So forget TrueHD or other uncomplressed audio formats...still I'm sure it'll be good enough for all the people hooking them up to "BIG" Tv's like 42 and 50 inchers


Don't underestimate the power of Cell and RSX.

The PS3 is absurdly more powerful than a regular player.
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post #910 of 32100 Old 10-29-2006, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Don't underestimate the power of Cell and RSX.

The PS3 is absurdly more powerful than a regular player.

I dont "underestimate" anything, I have concern that Sony wont give a rats ass and make it a medicore player, to push people into their $1000 BD stand-alones for "optimal image quality".

REmember something here kids....why would sony sell a super next-gen game system AND BD player that is reference quality for #500 or $600, and yet at the same time expect people to plunk down $800-$1500 for a stand-alone *SONY* BD player...??

Something in this equation has to give...either the Sony stand alone is going to debut at $200 or $300 dollars, or the PS3 is either a woefully inadequate game system and excellent BD player, or a woefully inadequate BD player and excellent game platform.

You can't buy a Ferarri at Chevy prices without something being up....

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post #911 of 32100 Old 10-29-2006, 11:35 AM
 
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I believe that they are selling the Play Station 3 at a loss in order to get more blu-ray players into people's homes. They will lose money in the short term on the PS3,but if blu-ray becomes dominate then they will make their money back in the long run by having a successful format. They will make their money back on the games too.
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post #912 of 32100 Old 10-29-2006, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I dont "underestimate" anything, I have concern that Sony wont give a rats ass and make it a medicore player, to push people into their $1000 BD stand-alones for "optimal image quality".

REmember something here kids....why would sony sell a super next-gen game system AND BD player that is reference quality for #500 or $600, and yet at the same time expect people to plunk down $800-$1500 for a stand-alone *SONY* BD player...??

Something in this equation has to give...either the Sony stand alone is going to debut at $200 or $300 dollars, or the PS3 is either a woefully inadequate game system and excellent BD player, or a woefully inadequate BD player and excellent game platform.

You can't buy a Ferarri at Chevy prices without something being up....


Then we can all assume the Xbox HD-DVD add-on is going to be crap also? If so, Microsoft just lost me as a customer in relation to purchasing an Xbox 360 Premium. I preordered the add-on pending reviews once it has been released. If performance of this add-on ranks up there with the Toshiba players, hello to the Xbox 360. If not, I will continue to wait for a price drop.

The PS3 as a gaming machine will be outright incredible. So the BIG question is....how will it play Blu Ray movies?

I believe these companies would want it the other way around. Both are trying to get market share for HD-DVD or Blu Ray. What better way to gain loyal customers(hence market share) then to provide the ability to play high def dvds with above average performance from their gaming machines. When the PS2 was released, dvd had already been around for three years. Nobody was looking at the PS2 as their dvd player. They already had a dvd player. The PS2 was purchased for gaming. High definition movies and the next generation of gaming is hitting at the same time for most people. There are many people out there hoping for an above average Blu Ray Player contained within the PS3 for one obvious reason which you already mentioned....price. If Sony provides a decent Blu Ray Player within the PS3, I honestly believe Blu Ray will eventually win out. If not, I believe we are in for a long battle. The current Blu Ray Players will drop in price within the year so I do not see that as being an issue.

If the HD-DVD add-on is an above average drive, great for everybody. Without studio support, it really will not matter. I am going to enjoy both formats while the war is being decided.

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post #913 of 32100 Old 10-30-2006, 12:12 AM
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Indeed! The Blu-ray studios are expecting certain things from the PS3, which they no doubt have been promised by Sony. I doubt they would risk alienating the studios and risk losing the war, just to sell a few more of their high-end player. Sony is in this for the long run...

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post #914 of 32100 Old 10-30-2006, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

It is 400,000 and that is just the PS3 launch shipment shipment for NA. Unless Sony has more problems with supplies I expect that at least 1 million PS3s in total will ship this year in NA.


Don't know where you heard that from but that is most likely wrong since their is no reason to delay shipments for a given date. Your probably thinking about the expected launch of PS3 for Europe which is currently planned for March of next year.


Did you mean to type 5?

Yes.

Yes 400K, You are correct. Not sure where I heard just 70k units.
And the 55 was not a mistype
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post #915 of 32100 Old 10-30-2006, 03:26 PM
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There is a report on another thread at AVS with a link to a article stating that Sony has reduced the numbers again.

Looks like 350,000 for N/A and 80K for Japan.

Cheers,

Richard
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post #916 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 02:50 AM
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I saw the Japan numbers...where are you getting the US numbers change?

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post #917 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 04:52 AM
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I only saw 80000 for Japan, and no mention of NA. However, I think it's a fair guess that it will be less than 350000 in NA. Also...

Sony Playstation 3 further details

"With the Playstation 3 launch just around the corner, Sony has released further information about the next gen console. The PS3 is a power hug and consumes around 380 watts of power more than double the Xbox 360's 160 watts and eight times the PS2's nimble 45 watts. So spending an average of 4 hours a day on the machine will add approx $ 80 to your yearly power bill. Coming to the files supported included in the list are MPEG-2 (PS and TS), MPEG-1, H.264 / MPEG-4 AVC / SP video formats and MP3, ATRAC (but of course), AAC, WAV audio formats. Also supported are various image formats like JPEG, BMP, TIFF, GIF and PNG. The optical drive in addition to BD-ROM games can read BD video, BD-R/RE, DVD±R/RW (VR-Modes also supported), Music CD's, SACD along with support for AVCHD media."

It's nice to see Sony confirming the H.264 & AVC support beyond just with Blu-ray. What is SP video though?

If the 380 Watts is true, colour me surprised. That's quite high.
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post #918 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 05:05 AM
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"MPEG 4 AVC / SP video formats" should be MPEG 4 AVC simple profile
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post #919 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post


Sony Playstation 3 further details

So spending an average of 4 hours a day on the machine will add approx $ 80 to your yearly power bill..."

If the 380 Watts is true, colour me surprised. That's quite high.

And if you can average 4 hours a day for a solid year, you won't be able to afford the $80, because you obviously don't have a job, or a wife, or if you do, not for long.
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post #920 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 08:57 AM
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I think that once the PS3 is released. A whole new area dedicated to the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player and not to talk about gaming in that thread (because it will be the most owned player for a long time) instead of sticking them all in one giant thread.. You could even make the argument that maybe the PS3 fits into some HTPC category because of Linux at some point. But more important than that is to allow more than one topic because I know many more people will have PS3's as their main one and only Blu-Ray player besides the pioneer or samsung..
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post #921 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2 View Post

"MPEG 4 AVC / SP video formats" should be MPEG 4 AVC simple profile

There's no AVC simple profile. SP is in old MPEG4 and is used in DiVX-like codecs.

AVC has baseline, main, high and extended profiles

Baseline - (cavlc only, no cabac entropy encode), usually targetted at portable devices (mobile phones, ipods, etc)

Extended - noone cares about this today.

Main - was the old mainstream profile until performance issues showed up for HD.

High Profile is the subset of the FRExt that is used by HDDVD/BD and is the dominant profile for AVC-HD. I understand the camcorders are also doing AVC-HD. The advantages of the High Profile AVC are the 8x8 transforms (more suitable for HD) and weighted quantization.
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post #922 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

If the 380 Watts is true, colour me surprised. That's quite high.

It is true, the manual says it plus the bottom of the unit says 120V 3.2A.
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post #923 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lajoska View Post

It is true, the manual says it plus the bottom of the unit says 120V 3.2A.

Basically all that is saying is that the power supply is rated up to 380 Watts. That doesn't say anything about actual usage.
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post #924 of 32100 Old 10-31-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Basically all that is saying is that the power supply is rated up to 380 Watts. That doesn't say anything about actual usage.


If it works like computer power supply's do, the usage wattage on average will be much lower...
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post #925 of 32100 Old 11-01-2006, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

It's nice to see Sony confirming the H.264 & AVC support beyond just with Blu-ray.

It was never really a concern. It's been stated that SOE and Sony will have AVC/HP-encoded material (Movie and Game trailers, haven't heard of TV) on the PlayStation Network day one. Although, I, personally, am impressed with the ability of some to really push and take advantage of BD's slow start to push out meme's like the Cell Processor can't handle MPEG4-AVC/HP comment. It's an absolutely ridiculous statement; I've seen an IBM QS20 decode multiple streams, but a lot of people bought into it.
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post #926 of 32100 Old 11-02-2006, 05:58 PM
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I didnt read this whole thread, but how come we are so close to launch and there has been no mention of PQ of BD on PS3? Several review sites got PS3 to review and none of them popped in a BD movie?
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post #927 of 32100 Old 11-02-2006, 06:48 PM
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Quote:


I didnt read this whole thread, but how come we are so close to lainch and there has been no mention of PQ of BD on PS3? Several review sites got PS3 to review and none of them popped in a BD movie?

Some (all?) older review units didn't have BD playback enabled.
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post #928 of 32100 Old 11-02-2006, 08:55 PM
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EA Estimates PS3, Wii Launch Figures
Quote:


During a quarterly conference call, Electronic Arts estimated PS3 and Wii shipment quantities for North America through the end of the yearand of course, PS3s will be hard to come by.

EA CFO Warren Jenson said, We're thinking that with PlayStation 3 in North America, the [2006 shipment] range is probably 500,000 to 800,000. If you take the middle of that range, that's approximately what Microsoft sold last year on the Xbox 360.

EA's estimations for PS3 shipments are substantially less than Sony's North American target, which is 1 to 1.2 million shipped.

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post #929 of 32100 Old 11-02-2006, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lajoska View Post

It is true, the manual says it plus the bottom of the unit says 120V 3.2A.

It was pointed out in another thread that if you used the same calculation with the Xbox 360 you would get a power supply of 600 watts. Which to say the least is significantly different than the actual power supply of 203 watts.
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post #930 of 32100 Old 11-03-2006, 08:06 AM
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Has anybody heard any rumors or concrete news about the PS3 getting a firmware upgrade to internally decode DTS-HD MA 5.1? It looks like it does Dolby TrueHD 5.1 internally already. I'm wondering because I'd really like to pick up an HDMI switching receiver soon to get lossless sound from movies/games, but I'm not sure if I should wait on an HDMI 1.3 receiver.

I'm kind of skeptical, though, because it seems like a firmware upgrade to allow internal decoding of all lossless sound formats would kind of undermine the whole 'HDMI 1.3 included' selling point ('Deep Color' excluded).
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Lcd Hdtv , Blu Ray Players , Blu Ray Movies , Sony , Toshiba , Playstation 3 160gb System
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