Blue Ray movie and High Prices. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope Sony and other players in the Blue Ray camp realize that unlike video gamers, who may dish out $50 or more for a game, movies are an entirely different market.
The prices of the Blue Ray movies are a bit disconcerning. When you consider that most DVD's cost around $24.99. The average consumer may like the picture of Blue Ray but will not dish out $30 To $40+ per movie. Software does not tend to drop in price like hardware. Keep in mind that Laser Disc movie prices actually were higher in their last hey days then when they were first introduced to the consumer market.
If the prices of the players do not hurt Blue Ray, Surely the Movies prices will.
In short term ( 6 to 12 months) Blue ray will be fighting an up hill battle , not just with HD-DVD camp but trying to convince the American consumer why they should pay more for both their hardware and software, that pretty much offers the same end result in terms of picture quality. Americans may be materialistic but they still think with their check books first.
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post #2 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtvhdtv
I hope Sony and other players in the Blue Ray camp realize that unlike video gamers, who may dish out $50 or more for a game, movies are an entirely different market.
The prices of the Blue Ray movies are a bit disconcerning. When you consider that most DVD's cost around $24.99. The average consumer may like the picture of Blue Ray but will not dish out $30 To $40+ per movie. Software does not tend to drop in price like hardware. Keep in mind that Laser Disc movie prices actually were higher in their last hey days then when they were first introduced to the consumer market.
If the prices of the players do not hurt Blue Ray, Surely the Movies prices will.
In short term ( 6 to 12 months) Blue ray will be fighting an up hill battle , not just with HD-DVD camp but trying to convince the American consumer why they should pay more for both their hardware and software, that pretty much offers the same end result in terms of picture quality. Americans may be materialistic but they still think with their check books first.
Were did you find these prices?
Show me some hd dvd prices like these suggested retail prices your quoting for Blu Ray.

There are sd dvd movies that list for 30.00 or more now, so lets not compare a list of Blu Ray retail list with actual discounted selling prices of sd dvd.

The high price of any new hi res movie in either format is just one of many variables that will keep average consumers away.

Lets see what the stores actually sell the movies for before condeming either format on the software pricing.
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post #3 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 02:00 PM
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The highest figure that I've read previously was a 20% increase in the price over good 'ol standard DVD's.

So by the original post that's around $5 'on average' more, at most for the $24.99 quoted. I'm not seeing a problem there.

.

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post #4 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 02:22 PM
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This article suggests $20-$30 retail for Blu-ray movies. That wouldn't be expensive at all considering new release SD movies can have a street price of $20. And why would we believe that HD-DVD would be any cheaper? This whole DVD war is frustrating. Blu-ray holds more storage and the only advantage that I am seeing for HD-DVD is a cheaper player. Do the consumer a favor Toshiba and give up on HD-DVD and focus on SED instead. You'd rule if you delivered a reasonably priced SED TV :D.

http://gamepro.com/sony/ps3/games/news/52312.shtml
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post #5 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032
This article suggests $20-$30 retail for Blu-ray movies. That wouldn't be expensive at all considering new release SD movies can have a street price of $20. And why would we believe that HD-DVD would be any cheaper? This whole DVD war is frustrating. Blu-ray holds more storage and the only advantage that I am seeing for HD-DVD is a cheaper player. Do the consumer a favor Toshiba and give up on HD-DVD and focus on SED instead. You'd rule if you delivered a reasonably priced SED TV :D.
]
Yep, at this point hd dvd reminds me of that movie The Sixth Sense, in that its dead already, and just does not realise it yet. ;)
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post #6 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 03:13 PM
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look at the suggested retail in the Lions Gate PR about what movies they are releasing in BR.

Please dont shoot the messenger. BD supporter here :). I think the phrase suggested retail is the key one. DVD's in stores now have a higher suggested retail than what they are selling for. I mean Best buy and such places dont make hardly anything on new releases. Suggested retail always has a percentage profit built in, which the store can either use or ignore.

ed: here is the link
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post #7 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz
Show me some hd dvd prices
Walmart has a few HD DVD titles that can be preordered. I don't know if BR prices will be similar but all are priced at $25.48. Doing a quick search of a few of the title's DVD counterparts I can up with prices ranging from $9.86-$17.88. That translates into a 40%-155% premium for the HD format. If they stick to these prices I just don't see the average J6P consumer shelling out $8-$15 more per title over the std DVD they are perfectly happy with now. And if they can't get penetration to the average consumer I'm afraid there is going to be a very slow adoption of either HD format.
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post #8 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz
Lets see what the stores actually sell the movies for before condeming either format on the software pricing.
Exactly, and over time the prices (or is that cost? :eek: -seems some think I get those confused, but not to worry, works the same for both :) )...
will drop over time.

Meanwhile, we can always rent ! :)
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post #9 of 31 Old 02-28-2006, 04:51 PM
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[quote=xb1032] Do the consumer a favor Toshiba and give up on HD-DVD and focus on SED instead.
I think they did until you know who got involved.
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post #10 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 12:29 AM
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Sheesh we've been telling you guys that Blu Ray is an overpriced format. You still haven't taken the hint

Exhibit A- Higher player costs
Exhibit B- Higher software costs.

Par for the course baby. You've heard it over and over again. But one mo' time. HD DVD is the more inexpensive format. It should stay that way as well for the forseeable future.
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post #11 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
You've heard it over and over again. But one mo' time. HD DVD is the more inexpensive format. It should stay that way as well for the forseeable future.
Too true. Just think of all the money you'll save by not buying any Disney, Fox, Lionsgate, MGM or Sony HD DVDs. :D

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post #12 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 05:37 AM
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DVD buyers in this hobby will pay the premium for Blu Ray disc (but thwy might complain along the way).

Prices seem cheap to me..

Remeber paying $59 to $129 for Director's Cut LDs...And New Releases were always $29 to $49... I think pricing is still fair - even if Blu ray Discs come out at $30 MSRP..

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post #13 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 06:13 AM
 
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while the initial prices for BR are indeed more, across the board, I recall VHS movies selling for $80 when they first came out

BR and HDDVD is at least 2 years away from mainstream acceptance, and that would just be the start, during that time prices will fall no doubt.

It will remain Niche as HD TV is still pretty much niche.
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post #14 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhdWho
while the initial prices for BR are indeed more, across the board, I recall VHS movies selling for $80 when they first came out

BR and HDDVD is at least 2 years away from mainstream acceptance, and that would just be the start, during that time prices will fall no doubt.

It will remain Niche as HD TV is still pretty much niche.
I have to give credit where it's due: I think you're 100 percent correct here.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #15 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 07:28 AM
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Didn't Warner confirm they'd be charging the same price for both?
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_Phogg
Walmart has a few HD DVD titles that can be preordered. I don't know if BR prices will be similar but all are priced at $25.48. Doing a quick search of a few of the title's DVD counterparts I can up with prices ranging from $9.86-$17.88. That translates into a 40%-155% premium for the HD format. If they stick to these prices I just don't see the average J6P consumer shelling out $8-$15 more per title over the std DVD they are perfectly happy with now. And if they can't get penetration to the average consumer I'm afraid there is going to be a very slow adoption of either HD format.
It says 30.00 list for these titles, and there are no Warner Blu Ray titles prices even available yet to compare to Warners hd dvd pricing.
So your comparing actual selling prices here for hd dvd at Wallyworld, to Blu Ray list pricing of movies that are not even going to be available on hd dvd.

When you find an actual apples to apples comparison of actual selling prices of titles in both formats...then will talk.
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post #17 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
DVD buyers in this hobby will pay the premium for Blu Ray disc (but thwy might complain along the way).

Prices seem cheap to me..

Remeber paying $59 to $129 for Director's Cut LDs...And New Releases were always $29 to $49... I think pricing is still fair - even if Blu ray Discs come out at $30 MSRP..
Yep - I still have that $129. Terminator 2 Director's cut laserdisc box set sitting on my shelf. It's got a nice layer of dust on top. Nope - you won't hear me complaining about Blu Ray prices!
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post #18 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhdWho
while the initial prices for BR are indeed more, across the board, I recall VHS movies selling for $80 when they first came out

BR and HDDVD is at least 2 years away from mainstream acceptance, and that would just be the start, during that time prices will fall no doubt.

It will remain Niche as HD TV is still pretty much niche.
Yep - I paid $79.99 in 1984 for the VHS of THE THING. I remember being so excited that it was in Stereo (linear mind you - not Hi-Fi). Still have it. Nice museum piece. Nope - you won't hear me complaining about Blu Ray prices!
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post #19 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Sheesh we've been telling you guys that Blu Ray is an overpriced format. You still haven't taken the hint

Exhibit A- Higher player costs
Exhibit B- Higher software costs.

Par for the course baby. You've heard it over and over again. But one mo' time. HD DVD is the more inexpensive format. It should stay that way as well for the forseeable future.
I agree with you as far as the player is concerned, but nothing convinces me yet on the software side. Suggested Retail prices are typically $10 higher on SD DVDs who I'm not sure why blu-ray won't be any different. I don't think we'll know until we see actual prices from retailers.
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 02:26 PM
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While DVDs sell at below SRP, I'm doubtful that you'll see much (if any) discounting on either HD DVD or BD titles. Most likely, it will be SRP or bust. DVD has volume sales capacity, and is used as a loss leader. The miniscule market penetration for HD DVD, and later BD, especially as they compete, will force retailers to stick to SRP for the near future.

Course that's just my 2c, I think Wallmart already has listed cheaper than SRP for HD DVD, so what do I know (;

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post #21 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
DVD buyers in this hobby will pay the premium for Blu Ray disc (but thwy might complain along the way).

Prices seem cheap to me..

Remeber paying $59 to $129 for Director's Cut LDs...And New Releases were always $29 to $49... I think pricing is still fair - even if Blu ray Discs come out at $30 MSRP..
But remember that LD was a mass-market failure--not exactly the goal of Blu-ray. Hard to say if that was because of price or other factors, but remember that VHS movies weren't exactly cheap 15 years ago.

The other point not mentioned here is that SD DVDs keep coming down in price. There are a lot of SD DVDs in initial release at $13.50 at Wal-Mart or Target, and quickly dropping to $9.99. Only the biggest of the blockbusters are approaching the $20 mark.

The bottom line is that we really don't know much about HD DVD or Blu-Ray pricing, given what's been reported so far. It's going to depend not only on how much it costs to produce the software, but also the demand for the particular movie, and, I suspect, how bad someone wants to see it in HD. I suspect that $30 for a Lord of the Rings movie will look like a much better deal than $30 for Divine Secrets of the Ya Ya Sisterhood. But if it's going to cost so much to make a disc that a studio can't produce and sell Ya Ya Sisterhood for $10, it's not a good omen for the format.
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post #22 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 04:10 PM
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$25 is better than previous formats, but I think whatever side gets a good rental selection will have an advantage. There's some movies I'll collect, but the majority I just want to rent. If they end up being that good, then maybe I'll buy it for me or as a gift.

It was painful paying $30 for D-Theater titles like The Haunting or Behind Enemy Lines. The same waste of time as the theater, but at 2x the price.

I didn't buy a LD player until they started renting them at Blockbuster.

 

 

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post #23 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 04:31 PM
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LD was hardly a failure...I used it exclusively over the very poor VHS for many years! LD lasted over 10 years...longer than DVD...

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post #24 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 06:13 PM
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Up until recently is was also the best source for the Star Wars movies, as I'm sure my D-VHS copy of AotC will be. LD wasn't a failure, but it wasn't really a success either.

Again, I blame the rental market. Not enough people willing to buy LD movies when they could rent VHS for much less. It's one thing to rent a crappy movie, another thing to own it.

By the time it started picking up momentum, something better (DVD) came along and replaced it. I preferred many LD's to the early DVD's because of zero compression artifacts. That's why I care about what codecs get used in the next gen discs. MPEG-2 can look good, but I'd really like to see a codec with enough flexibility and growth potential to eventually reduce compression artifacts to imperceptible levels.

 

 

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post #25 of 31 Old 03-01-2006, 06:34 PM
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Anything as good as the best d-vhs quality such as Xmen 2, Man on Fire and I robot will be plenty good enough for myself and the masses for the first Blu Ray movies, and if its better yet....all the better. :)
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post #26 of 31 Old 03-02-2006, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
LD was hardly a failure...I used it exclusively over the very poor VHS for many years! LD lasted over 10 years...longer than DVD...
Not to get too far off topic, but LD was a mass-market failure, despite its acceptance at the upper end of the A/V spectrum (i.e., the people who hang out in this forum). How many more DVD players and DVD movies have been sold than LD players/movies? 100x more? 1,000x more? 10,000x more? I used dbx as noise reduction for my cassette tapes back in the 80s, but it was hardly a mass-market success. Neither was Dolby C. Good ol' Dolby B was the only successful system, though the other two had decent lives at the top end of the spectrum.

Back to my point: it's hard to say how much the high price of LDs contributed to the failure of LD as a mass-market format. There were obviously other issues, but DVD as an analogous format, i.e., non-recordable (at least until very recently) optical disk, caught on within two years of its introduction like LD never did. Was it because of the lower price of DVD media, or something as simple as the smaller form factor? I not sure, but I don't believe that J6P will be running out to buy many Blu-Ray (or HD DVD) movies at $30 a pop.
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post #27 of 31 Old 03-02-2006, 08:01 AM
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I don't think they are grossly over-priced at all. However I would like to state the following. Since their DRM's are so strong, piracy will be way down, then why are they not making a real assault here and giving us a monetary reason (instead of just a audio/visual) to buy into these things ASAP? The faster the standard changes the more they gain. There is a logical line of thinking that it would make sense to at least match if not even undercut the price of standard DVD's. They want to have their cake and eat it to, I only used that line because most people hate it. :)

Just mark it up to, yet another mistake they are making in all of this... This might be a study someday in economics/history class of "what not to do".
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post #28 of 31 Old 03-05-2006, 09:51 PM
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I read a press release recently stating that Netflix will be offering HD movies in both formats when the players are finally released to the public. Having more than 200 LDs and perhaps 300 DVDs in my library, I'm depressed a bit that these technologies are soon to be one generation of optical media technology older.

I may only buy a couple movies to start and give the "movies by mail" route a try during the early introduction period this year and perhaps a bit into '07 as well. Anyone else thinking this will be a good way to jump into HD discs at an affordable cost? I hope none of the "movies by mail" folks will make you change plans, pay more or impart some other form of hoop jumping on us to get them.

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post #29 of 31 Old 03-05-2006, 09:54 PM
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Link to press release from Netflix on the HD disc rentals.
http://www.netflix.com/MediaCenter?id=5312&dailytech

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post #30 of 31 Old 03-06-2006, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
DVD buyers in this hobby will pay the premium for Blu Ray disc (but thwy might complain along the way).

Prices seem cheap to me..

Remeber paying $59 to $129 for Director's Cut LDs...And New Releases were always $29 to $49... I think pricing is still fair - even if Blu ray Discs come out at $30 MSRP..
And these were in 1980's dollars. I remember Star Tek The Motion Picture was $125 when it was released. I'm not sure but I bet that is close to $ 200 today!

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