Blu-Ray Output for PAL/50Hz Countries - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 03-13-2006, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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It seems that Blu-Ray video will be stored at 1080p24 and then the output can be selected to suit your display equipment.

In NTSC or 60Hz video countries the 1080i60 or 1080p60Hz output with 3:2 pulldown will likely to be used for most people.

For countries that have broadcast and DVDs in PAL / 50Hz Frame Rate, what will we set the Blu-Ray player to output. For 50Hz we would be 4% speedup and I doubt the players can achieve this with the required Audio corrections. Are we going to be forced to watch at 60Hz with pulldown judder?

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post #2 of 18 Old 03-13-2006, 12:49 PM
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I think that we can assume that the movies will be encoded at 1080P/25 for PAL/50Hz countries. Like this the 4% speedup will be done by the encoding facilities and not within the player...

I'm afraid that the next gen discs won't help us to escape the famous-infamous 4% speedup... :(

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post #3 of 18 Old 03-13-2006, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not so sure of this.

There are indications at this stage that Australia will have the same region coding as the USA.

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post #4 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 02:53 AM
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I would like to know that too.
My PJ accepts 1080p24 so that's what I would feed it ...
it would be a shame if they'd speed it up to 25fps.

That would double their work too!
If they can use the same 24fps video-stream all over the world and just add some subtitles or maybe even an audio-track, that would save the studios a lot of work.
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post #5 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azzad
I'm not so sure of this.

There are indications at this stage that Australia will have the same region coding as the USA.

Aaron

Really? Where did you read that? It would be great if it were true.
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post #6 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 04:39 AM
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Following the article on Video Business online ( March 10th's article "French Fried" ), it looks more like Australia and NZ will get a status of region free instead of getting same region as the US.

Anyway the fact that you get the same region doesn't imply that you will get the same coding... especially if you look at the current DVD (Europe is region 2 but PAL 50Hz and Japan is also region 2 but NTSC 60Hz).

It looks to me that the more easiest way is to encode at 24p for 60Hz region and at 25p for 50Hz region as, like Azzad said, the electronics needed to correct sound pitch will probably not be installed in the players.

I guess that we will have to wait for the first announcment from 50Hz editors to know a little bit more about it...

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post #7 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely true about Australia being Region free. A recent High Court ruling has abolished the legality of Region Coding in Australia.

I didn't realise the situation with Region 2 disks beign both 60 and 50Hz. Interesting point.

I'm in 2 minds about what would be good for consumers. in PAL countries we have the luxury of perfect smooth playback of film material with 2:2 pulldown. Once this becomes normal for you it is impossible to watch 60Hz with 3:2 pulldown, it is terrible. Video processors and some displays can perform an inverse Telecine and playback the recovered 24 frame film at 48 or 72 Hz as 2:2 or 3:3 pulldown respectively, but doing this well requires expensive processing.

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post #8 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 05:15 AM
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Perfect solution:

Encode at 1080p24 and make every single player able to output at 24, 48, 50, 60, 72.

Then people with displays that can handle 24, 48 or 72 will have a perfect picture and all the new displays will be made to handle these refresh rates.

People with 50 or 60 hz only displays should simply upgrade over time or just keep what they got if they don't mind. People that won't upgrade to modern displays don't care about judder anyway.

Then everybody wins. Both videophiles and people who just want to watch a damn movie.
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post #9 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 06:23 AM
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25fps really needs to be buried doesn't it?
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post #10 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul
25fps really needs to be buried doesn't it?
Yes, except for material natively shot in 25fps (eg Duran Duran videos :D ).

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
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post #11 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 07:05 AM
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And pretty much every TV show in Europe... Sorry, 25fps ain't going anywhere. Modern TVs should have no problem switching between 50, 60, and 72Hz.
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post #12 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
Modern TVs should have no problem switching between 50, 60, and 72Hz.
If that's a fact is there any reason why all the new players shouldn't be able to output 72Hz so that we can loose the speedup or judder?
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post #13 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 08:30 AM
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Because. And why, whence and wherefore. Is there any reason all US TVs can't decode PAL signals, or that all 1080p TVs can't accept native 1080p signals? Sometimes it's not ours to understand, but just to wonder why. Because it should be easy to do doesn't mean it is or will be done.

In a less oblique vein: it's possible there are political considerations for at least a few of these issues.
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post #14 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 12:47 PM
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the "hd ready logo" in europe say that the display
must handle 50 AND 60 hz.

so they can use the 60 hz but with the motion bug.
all user that can display 24p in all the different formats(24p/24psf/48p 72p) can be happy because for the first time ever we can see the right speed from film.
i hope sony will do it.
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 12:56 PM
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Perhaps Pioneer with their $$$$ BluRay player will support a 72 Hz output since their plasmas have been supporting 72 Hz for the past couple of years (using 3:3 pulldown). 72 Hz really is an idea display rate for film based (for HD video shot at 1080p/24) and I would really like to see it become a much more widely supported HD display format (ie., 1080p/72) for material souced at 1080p/24.

In the early days of TV the vertical sync. rate was tied to the AC electric power line frequency but those days have been gone for more that half a century but the TV standards, including the post-PAL and post-NTSC HD standards, are still locked to 50 Hz and 60 Hz and locking sources and displays to just these rates makes no sense with today's technology. Video sources should output at their native rate (e.g., 1080p/24 for movies on BD) and displays should display at some multiple of that rate this is high enough eliminate visible flicker (e.g., 72 Hz, 96 Hz., etc).

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post #16 of 18 Old 03-14-2006, 02:05 PM
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Current HDMI versions 1.1 and 1.2 are single link connections.

They can support 1080p but will top out at 1080p60. Anything faster like 1080p72 will require a dual link connection and will mean waiting for HDMI v1.3.
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post #17 of 18 Old 03-15-2006, 03:20 AM
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why send 1080 72 p ?

there is no need for this high frame rate and its complicated.

no chip so far can handle this band width.
they have to reduce the 1920x1080 to 1440x1080 when they do it at 72p.
that 72p is only for some high end crt pr. interest.

let the pr. handle it and its a good idea to let the consumer
change the bd or hd dvd player output from 24p/24psf/48p and 72p to match the output rate from the pr. they own

qualia only can handle 24psf
ruby only can handle 48p
some pr. can only do 24p so it is in consumer and player manufacturers best interest to do it that way.
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post #18 of 18 Old 03-17-2006, 01:55 PM
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I agree that the ideal situation would be for the higher end HD display to accept 1080p/24 and then display it at the optimum frame rate for that display. Ideally this would be at a mulitple of 24 Hz and in order to minimize flicker 72 Hz or 96 Hz. would be much better than 48 Hz. As for having the HD source device output at a higher frame rate (e.g., 1080p/72), the HDMI ver. 1.3 stardard will be finalized shortly and the first products are expected to be shipping by this fall. (Playstation 3 was just recently announced to be shipping in Nov. with HDMI ver. 1.3).

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