Blu Rays at BB. Just picked up mine!!! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 302 Old 06-18-2006, 09:37 PM
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The Samsung BD-P1000 User's Manual (available for download from Samsung) indicates that you cannot output 480i video through the Video/S-Video connector when playing Blu-ray discs. Only DVD discs will play through the BD-P1000 Video/S-Video connector (see page 18, 19 and 43.)

The Toshiba HD-A1 can play HD-DVD discs using the Video/S-Video connector.

Will this be a standard feature for all Blu-ray players?
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post #272 of 302 Old 06-18-2006, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
Once the authoring/data structure is proven to work on Blu-Ray, I'll capture Half Life: Lost Coast's fly through at 1080p and encode that.

However, there's little incentive to do so if I don't know if the authoring will work to begin with!
You might be out of luck since BD requires AACS on DVD-R in order to play these disks:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7854541
It's also mentioned by Stacy (sspear) in another thread.
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post #273 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 06:43 AM
 
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that True HD on the box is funny...
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post #274 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 07:01 AM
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What does the asterisk reference on the box at the end of:

" Multi Format Compatability: Blu-Ray / DVD / CD * " ?
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post #275 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overcast
Seriously, if you give a **** about price, you're participating on the wrong forum. None of us care, that is the point. We like new toys.
We all like new toys, but lets not pretend that people don't care about the prices of items here, at least the SANE members that is. Do I like hearing observations and impressions from you crazy early adopters with way too much money for your own good? :p Yes, but come on, a cool thousand dollars for a player that may not even win the format war? Insanity, especially when you consider that within a year they will cost probably 1/3 that price.

If you're happy, thats great, but price is most definitely a factor in purchases like this. I gotta say though, apparently the VHS vs. Betamax war is long out of the memories of many of you, because even if these players were a hundred bucks, I wouldn't invest in a movie collection because if you make the wrong choice, its a glorified doorstop.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

 

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post #276 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalahmar
Going by your arguments DVD should be a dead format. DVD Players debuted at $1000 price point if you don't recall.

New Technology costs a lot to bring to the market. Early Adopters pay the price of being first to play with new toys. Prices will come down by probably 1st quarter or mid next year once manufacturing costs come down and there is more product availability.
No they didn't. The first DVD player I saw in stores was a Philips Magnavox in a Circuit City that was $499.99. Maybe some ultra exclusive player was a grand, but as far as RETAIL players go, $499.99 was the first price I saw.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere.

 

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post #277 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BigMikeATL
Get a HD DVD player... wait on Blu-ray. Spend $500 on the HD DVD deck and buy a bunch of movies. You won't be disappointed.

If you're tired of waiting, why not order a HD DVD player from Circuit City or Best Buy online?

I just purchased a Blu-Ray player online from Circuit City. I went by the store and picked it up an hour ago. Can't wait to get home and test this puppy out. :)
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post #278 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 10:00 AM
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I wouldn't expect to be blown away by the images of BD. :(
I had the unique opportunity to see a Samsung BD player on a 61 inch Samsung DLP 1080p set at my local BB.
They had The Fifth Element in the warehouse. It took some coaxing, but they gave me a demonstration of the format.
To put it bluntly, I was not impressed. There was an awful lot of grain and crawly things all over the place. Especially in dark scenes!!
I checked all of their connections and made sure the player was set-up correctly and everything was as it should be.
My initial impression of BD is not good. I was not expecting any difference picture wise between HD-DVD and BD. But I think at this point, from what I have seen of HD-DVD, the Toshiba player is superior from a video perspective. They didn't have any sound on and to be honest, sound demoing at BB is impossible anyway.
The colors seem good, but I don't think all the calibration in the world would help it to get rid of all of the grain that I saw. :( :(


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post #279 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
What does the asterisk reference on the box at the end of:

" Multi Format Compatability: Blu-Ray / DVD / CD * " ?
There is a disclaimer on the side of the box as well as the top of the BD-P1000 which states:


- Multi Format Compatability: BD-R/-RE/-ROM, DVD Video, DVD-R/-RW/-RAM, Audio CD, and CD-RW

-Not for HD DVD, DVD+R/+RW Discs.

Then there is a bunch of stuff about no guarantee for disc ompatability, errors associated to playback, damage or file corruption, and so forth.
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post #280 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 10:53 AM
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Thanks, was curious if it only applied to the "CD".
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post #281 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 08:37 PM
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Well I got to spend plenty of quality time at Best Buy with the Samsung Blu-ray player hooked up to a beautiful Samsung LCD at 1080p.

1. 35 second disc load is much faster than HD-DVD, but longer HD-DVD load time gives much better visual menu quality than I saw with Blu-ray today. (I did not measure boot time from power up.)

2. The player started with the menu rather than WB's HD-DVD auto play. Universal HD-DVD discs start with a menu too. Both players allow the skipping of warning messages if you select scene one rather than pressing play at the menu.

3. Extremely low res pictures in popup menu pictures. The only explanation is so they could get the 35 second disc load time. I haven't seen such low resolution in small graphic photos since the days of B&W Macintosh camera scans!

4. The menu is very similar to HD-DVD offering simple operation. There are two menu buttons on the remote. One stops the film and displays the menu and the other button displays the menu while the movie continues playing.

5. The Blu-ray House of the Flying Daggers is a terrible transfer. Excessive single pixel sized white sparkles appear in fine details like hair. An overall moving-grainy image was noted, nice at a distance, but noisy up close. The warning messages were very clean, so it appears the video transfer is at fault.

6. Jerky pans in the forest scene. Just hit the chapter stop several times and you will easily find this footage.

7. Faster response than HD-DVD using next chapter / previous chapter. (Sorry, I didn't try still frame or slow motion.)

8. 5 second disc eject is a few seconds faster than HD-DVD.

9. Blu-ray discs cannot be played on a TV with the Video/S-video connector. That could be an issue when you upgrade and decide to move the player to another room without an HD set. It also could be a shock for the customer that doesn't have the right cable when the box is opened and decides to hook it up to an older TV. (DVD's will play through the Video/S-video connector.)

I plan to delay purchase until extremely high quality transfers are available. One of my favorites "The Fifth Element" has been mentioned as grainy here and on other web sites. I can survive without the other planned releases at the present.

Hopefully SONY will ship a dream player in September that improves the quality. Blu-ray is capable of so much better, they really need to improve image quality as soon as possible.

Update: Returned to BB tonight to check other resolutions. The sales person mentioned that Samsung is planning a firmware update to correct video problems. The Samsung display at BB does feature a 1080p input. Trying 720p and 1080i output, there was less grain - especially on the menu pictures. Still frame is similar to HD-DVD. Slow motion a bit more difficult. Sales person mentioned that a Blu-ray disc will auto eject if you use the Video out setting.

Forgive the single layer comment from the earlier post. Was thinking about the need for dual layer authoring for maximum bit capacity. I stand corrected on the confirmation of a dual layer drive in the Samsung.
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post #282 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000
I wouldn't expect to be blown away by the images of BD. :(
I had the unique opportunity to see a Samsung BD player on a 61 inch Samsung DLP 1080p set at my local BB.
They had The Fifth Element in the warehouse. It took some coaxing, but they gave me a demonstration of the format.
To put it bluntly, I was not impressed. There was an awful lot of grain and crawly things all over the place. Especially in dark scenes!!
I checked all of their connections and made sure the player was set-up correctly and everything was as it should be.
My initial impression of BD is not good. I was not expecting any difference picture wise between HD-DVD and BD. But I think at this point, from what I have seen of HD-DVD, the Toshiba player is superior from a video perspective. They didn't have any sound on and to be honest, sound demoing at BB is impossible anyway.
The colors seem good, but I don't think all the calibration in the world would help it to get rid of all of the grain that I saw. :( :(


Craig
To be fair it could easily be the transfer that is causing the PQ complaints. Sadly it is going to make the format look bad and possibly cause more early adopters to go HD-DVD.
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post #283 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
To be fair it could easily be the transfer that is causing the PQ complaints. Sadly it is going to make the format look bad and possibly cause more early adopters to go HD-DVD.
Yes, it could be the transfer, but why on earth use a bad transfer as one of the very first releases with a new format, especially being second to market after HD-DVD? Certainly not a good example of putting your best foot forward. Hard to believe that they didn't even compare the SD version against the BD version, and if they did, how could it have made it to market?
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post #284 of 302 Old 06-19-2006, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzokc
Well I got to spend plenty of quality time at Best Buy with the Samsung Blu-ray player hooked up to a beautiful Samsung LCD at 1080p.

Hopefully SONY will ship a dream player in September that plays higher capacity dual layer Blu-ray discs. Blu-ray is capable of so much better, they really need to improve image quality as soon as possible.
I was surprised to read this after an otherwise pretty informative run-down of the features. I don't think it would be good to propogate the mis-conception that the Samsung Player, for all its faults, is incapable of playing dual layer discs!

I think everyone is in agreement that the fault is the lack of discs, not a shortcoming in the current player, when it comes to Dual-Layer BDs.

There's enough FUD without adding more.
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post #285 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 07:31 AM
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Agreed that dual-layer discs and VC1/AVC encoded BD software need to happen SOON to make BD a real contender for HD DVD.


Quote:
Yes, it could be the transfer, but why on earth use a bad transfer as one of the very first releases with a new format, especially being second to market after HD-DVD? Certainly not a good example of putting your best foot forward. Hard to believe that they didn't even compare the SD version against the BD version, and if they did, how could it have made it to market?
Agreed. The mind really boggles at what Sony is thinking with these sub-par BD titles... regardless of whether the fault lies in the film elements, transfer, or compression/mastering.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #286 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzokc

6. Jerky pans in the forest scene. Just hit the chapter stop several times and you will easily find this footage.
I noticed this on the TFE disc as well. It also shares the same fine haze of mosquito noise look as HOFD.
on the HOFD I also saw extremly noticeable macroblocking around the 42 minute mark (and yes, TFE had this as well)
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post #287 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74
No they didn't. The first DVD player I saw in stores was a Philips Magnavox in a Circuit City that was $499.99. Maybe some ultra exclusive player was a grand, but as far as RETAIL players go, $499.99 was the first price I saw.

heh heh, that's the same dvd player I bought (got it for $449 though).

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
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post #288 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74
No they didn't. The first DVD player I saw in stores was a Philips Magnavox in a Circuit City that was $499.99. Maybe some ultra exclusive player was a grand, but as far as RETAIL players go, $499.99 was the first price I saw.
Yes, they did. I have my Pioneer DVL-700 which I got at launch and it was $1000. I still have it.

I think there was a Toshiba for $1000 also.
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post #289 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan
Yes, it could be the transfer, but why on earth use a bad transfer as one of the very first releases with a new format, especially being second to market after HD-DVD? Certainly not a good example of putting your best foot forward. Hard to believe that they didn't even compare the SD version against the BD version, and if they did, how could it have made it to market?
maybe they viewed it on a Qualia as opposed to a Samsung DLP/LCD :)
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post #290 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Agreed that dual-layer discs and VC1/AVC encoded BD software need to happen SOON to make BD a real contender for HD DVD.




Agreed. The mind really boggles at what Sony is thinking with these sub-par BD titles... regardless of whether the fault lies in the film elements, transfer, or compression/mastering.
Excellent points. I was prepared to spend $500 more for BD as well based on potential future advantages, but now I expect the above changes and the same price as HD DVD. Price/performance is very important to me as the majority of my budget was spent on the Sony Ruby. Thie first impression has soured me, but I do give second chances.
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post #291 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover
maybe they viewed it on a Qualia as opposed to a Samsung DLP/LCD :)
:D
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post #292 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Agreed that dual-layer discs and VC1/AVC encoded BD software need to happen SOON to make BD a real contender for HD DVD.




Agreed. The mind really boggles at what Sony is thinking with these sub-par BD titles... regardless of whether the fault lies in the film elements, transfer, or compression/mastering.
My guess is that these are equipment problems and are the result of a rush to market situation. Because BD is already behind the curve market-wise to HD-DVD, they may have pushed the product out too early, forsaking "perfect" quality just to get the product out there. That's a situation that may backfire if all the initial releases exhibit the problems that Daggers has. It's early though and maybe the problems will be corrected with firmware, but still, you have to wonder about the wisdom of putting a sub-par product out just to generate some market buzz as that buzz looks like it may turn out not to be good.
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post #293 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
The mind really boggles at what Sony is thinking with these sub-par BD titles... regardless of whether the fault lies in the film elements, transfer, or compression/mastering.
Sony arrogance. Sony thinks they are the rulers of the electronics world with their formats even though most of the previous attempts have failed.

I hope (for Sony's sake...I personally don't give a crap) the next batch of releases are up to expectations but I wouldn't be shocked if they aren't.

All I know is many people dropping 1K on a player most likely won't care of the future potential so not having movies out off the bat that are equal to the competition is not a good strategy.

ROB
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post #294 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover
maybe they viewed it on a Qualia as opposed to a Samsung DLP/LCD :)
You mean Qualia is so bad they couldn't make out the difference ? ;)
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post #295 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 12:56 PM
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In leiu of the discussions about competition and previous Betamax vs. VHS discussion.....

Weren't LaserDiscs superior to early DVDs in that it a large number of the LD's were encoded at a higher bitrate than some of the early DVDs? I remember quite well the LD DTS version of Jurassic Park sounded incredible and was the "pinnacle" of digital media at the time.

My point, IF people can be swayed to believe high definition DVD is far superior to Standard-DVD, maybe they will buy sooner rather than later and the format will

just my .02 cents.

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post #296 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger
In leiu of the discussions about competition and previous Betamax vs. VHS discussion.....

Weren't LaserDiscs superior to early DVDs in that it a large number of the LD's were encoded at a higher bitrate than some of the early DVDs? I remember quite well the LD DTS version of Jurassic Park sounded incredible and was the "pinnacle" of digital media at the time.

My point, IF people can be swayed to believe high definition DVD is far superior to Standard-DVD, maybe they will buy sooner rather than later and the format will

just my .02 cents.

stieger
Actually no. Most early DVDs still had better picture and audio quality than the equivalent LD. JP, Episode 1 and a few others were the exception, and those DVDs were rather late to the game so the LD was really the only option for a while.

My .02 cents is that BD and HD-DVD will go the way of LD, DVD-A, and SACD, and become a niche technology used mainly by enthusiasts, game systems and PCs. DVD was a disruptive technology that is cheap to make, cheap to buy, and looks pretty darn good on the majority of the TVs still in use today. The HiDef disc formats are going to have to come down drastically in price for both the hardware and software to make it into Joe6pack's home.

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post #297 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger
In leiu of the discussions about competition and previous Betamax vs. VHS discussion.....

Weren't LaserDiscs superior to early DVDs in that it a large number of the LD's were encoded at a higher bitrate than some of the early DVDs? I remember quite well the LD DTS version of Jurassic Park sounded incredible and was the "pinnacle" of digital media at the time.

My point, IF people can be swayed to believe high definition DVD is far superior to Standard-DVD, maybe they will buy sooner rather than later and the format will

just my .02 cents.

stieger
LD video was analogue composite - so didn't inherently have a bitrate. It DID have a composite footprint and other analogue limitations.

It was only the digital audio - that was added to the LD spec - that had a bit rate.

Even first generation DVD players could easily outperform laser discs - however poorly mastered DVDs could look bad when played on them. However well mastered stuff could look very good.

The best LD would still look (and sound) inferior to the best DVD - however there was (and is) no guarantee that you get the best in any format for a given release.
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post #298 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 01:44 PM
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LD *audio* had a few things going for it:

the 2.0 track was LPCM and sounds MUCH better than the 192 kbps 2.0 DD on DVD (even better than the 5.1 DD tracks on most DVDs)

AC-3 on LD often sounds better because it was often mastered without compromises typical of 5.1 DD DVD mastering...such as dumbing down the mix for "easy downmixing" in players or the addition of dialogue normalization flags which compromise the sound quality during playback in most decoder. Also, many 5.1 mixes are dumbed down on DVD in other ways like noise-gate filtering where the LD version was left full-fidelity. Comparing the 5.1 DD mix on the DVD of Hello Dolly sounds like dead mush next to the sparkling AC-3 5.1 mix of the *same mix* on the laserdisc.

DTS, when present, was full bit-rate.

To this day most LD titles in my library still sound better than their DVD counterparts, regardless of encoding strategy.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #299 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

To this day most LD titles in my library still sound better than their DVD counterparts, regardless of encoding strategy.
Huge, big, enormous thumbs up on this one. I've been waiting to get back to that type of sound and I'm hoping the HD formats will do it.

Finally, I can agree with you on something. :)

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post #300 of 302 Old 06-20-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
To this day most LD titles in my library still sound better than their DVD counterparts, regardless of encoding strategy.
That's amazing.

Believe me: You are far and away NOT the only person I've seen and heard this from.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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