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post #91 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 07:43 AM
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But as mentioned before, Amazon is doing such a skewed and weird tracking of things going on within a very short period of time, which is also affected by other factors such as the marketplace. Like the Toshiba, the only numbers that really matter are the sold to consumers that stay in consumers hands. Neither company is letting those numbers out and trying to extrapolate it from sales rankings on a couple of sites doesn't work. The closest that does work is extrapolating from software sales and I got crucified on presenting that for the HD DVD side a few weeks back, even though the numbers still match up against what Toshiba said is in shipment (not sold).
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post #92 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge
My experiences in the past and present with the home video industry has told me that the amount of online discourse about something has almost no relation to how a product does in reality. This isn't an ego posting, just an example; the site I run and its forums are one of the top two or three main gathering places for anime fans. And for anime fans, there's a heavy usage of downloading illegal files for viewing called "fansubs." My site is dedicated to talking only about legit DVD releases. So we have a heavy concentration of people who buy and buy a lot of shows. There are many shows where this large population of buyers talk about how great show X is and that it's the best thing ever. If anyone from the outside were to step in and look, they'd see the thread and think it must be selling huge because it's all anyone talks about.

Look at the actual sales numbers and it's very flat or poor. Much like looking at the Samsung situation in reverse here, as Keith mentioned in the main news thread. I'm all for using the stats as an example of what people here have answered (though I doubt it's everyone voting or voting properly), but to extrapolate that to a national level is just... I'd say delusional but that would sound insulting when I'm not trying to be. There's just so very little balance to what's going on in these forums right now.
Like I said I have no idea, but from the number of units available in stores, looking at the poll results, to the sales rank on amazon I think its fair to say that the units are not selling well and those that have sold have a good chance of being returned.

I never expected the unit to sell in any significant numbers anyway because it is an early adopter piece (that early adopters on forums like these not buying) and the price.
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post #93 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 07:50 AM
 
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hmmmm...if BD isn't doing well then Amazon must be wrong! The fact is that HD DVD ranking has picked up relative to all electronics sold at Amazon after the 'unofficial' BD launch. That to me is interesting data from one of the top online retailers.

I like your attempts at creating BD spin even fRom bad news so far and minimizing anything positive about HD DVD. Don't you dearly wish HD DVD were dead already? For me, right now BD has some catching up to do. Once it's ahead, I'll embrace it....no spin needed to convince me :)
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post #94 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 07:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge
So the 75% return rate here is reflective of the return rate for the entire population?
absolutely not
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post #95 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman
hmmmm...if BD isn't doing well then Amazon must be wrong! The fact is that HD DVD ranking has picked up relative to all electronics sold at Amazon after the 'unofficial' BD launch. That to me is interesting data from one of the top online retailers.

I like your attempts at creating BD spin even fRom bad news so far and minimizing anything positive about HD DVD. Don't you dearly wish HD DVD were dead already? For me, right now BD has some catching up to do. Once it's ahead, I'll embrace it....no spin needed to convince me :)
We should only base this on data that is readily available. From that data the results are poor no matter how you look at it. If I was going to argue that the BD launch has been a success then I would argue flawed data :) You can also check open boxed units at local stores for return data, but since my local BB stores seem to have sold zero units then this could be flawed as well.

My guess is the BD launch has gone worse than Samsungs internal forecasts.
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post #96 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:00 AM
 
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A return rate at BB/CC of 70-80% would not surprise me. I guess that's one reason many BB are charging a 15% restocking fee.

Perhaps Samsung will convert the returns to universal players :)
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post #97 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:06 AM
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My experiences in the past and present with the home video industry has told me that the amount of online discourse about something has almost no relation to how a product does in reality.
I disagree with you to this extent: While it is true that expressed enthusiasm for a format on a specialty forum such as AVS does not necessarily translate into success with the general public, a LACK of enthusiasm for a format on a web site such as this (composed of exactly the kind of early adopters that make up the target market) means the format is in BIG trouble. In other words, there is essentially NO chance that enthusiasm among the general buying public for the Samsung exceeds what it is here.
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post #98 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RobertR
I disagree with you to this extent: While it is true that expressed enthusiasm for a format on a specialty forum such as AVS does not necessarily translate into success with the general public, a LACK of enthusiasm for a format on a web site such as this (composed of exactly the kind of early adopters that make up the target market) means the format is in BIG trouble. In other words, there is essentially NO chance that enthusiasm among the general buying public for the Samsung exceeds what it is here.
AVSforum does not represent the average customer. I've witnessed on more than one occassion a lack of enthusiam at AVS yet in the real world for average consumers the same products have done well.

edit: One should surely realize that the Samsung is a product and not a format :cool: Regardless there has been a lot of excitement for Blu-Ray for quite a while here. Yes a lack of excitement for a very limited amount of software recently, that is true.
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post #99 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I disagree with you to this extent: While it is true that expressed enthusiasm for a format on a specialty forum such as AVS does not necessarily translate into success with the general public, a LACK of enthusiasm for a format on a web site such as this (composed of exactly the kind of early adopters that make up the target market) means the format is in BIG trouble. In other words, there is essentially NO chance that enthusiasm among the general buying public for the Samsung exceeds what it is here.
Agreed.
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post #100 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:13 AM
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I've witnessed on more than one occassion a lack of enthusiam at AVS yet in the real world for average consumers the same products have done well.
Such as? Keep in mind the kind of format we're talking about here. Is it your claim, for example, that DVHS, SACD, or DVD-A had greater enthusiasm than here?
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post #101 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RobertR
Such as? Keep in mind the kind of format we're talking about here. Is it your claim, for example, that DVHS, SACD, or DVD-A had greater enthusiasm than here?
such as Bose Speakers for one example. Quite a lack of enthusiam at the Speaker board yet they did quite well in my 7+ years of retail experience and continue to do well.
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post #102 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I disagree with you to this extent: While it is true that expressed enthusiasm for a format on a specialty forum such as AVS does not necessarily translate into success with the general public, a LACK of enthusiasm for a format on a web site such as this (composed of exactly the kind of early adopters that make up the target market) means the format is in BIG trouble. In other words, there is essentially NO chance that enthusiasm among the general buying public for the Samsung exceeds what it is here.
The name Bose strikes much fear in many here. Few touch it, yet it sells in the bucketloads to the mainstream.
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post #103 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:18 AM
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such as Bose Speakers for one example.
Bose is mass market dreck that's been around for almost 40 years (it's hardly a fledgling company), and speakers are not a FORMAT.

Cite a new format, please.
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post #104 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertR
Bose is mass market dreck that's been around for almost 40 years (it's hardly a fledgling company), and speakers are not a FORMAT.

Cite a new format, please.
I cannot cite one format..., but my parents like their Bose wave radio.
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post #105 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge
The name Bose strikes much fear in many here. Few touch it, yet it sells in the bucketloads to the mainstream.
exactly :)
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post #106 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RobertR
Bose is mass market dreck that's been around for almost 40 years (it's hardly a fledgling company), and speakers are not a FORMAT.

Cite a new format, please.
I was referring to a PRODUCT, not a format.. Just as the Samsung Blu-Ray player is a particular product not its own format ;) Don't worry, I'm not trying to disprove something you've never proved to begin with :D
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post #107 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:22 AM
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Back on topic please: it is Blu-ray
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post #108 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:23 AM
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I was referring to a product, not a format..
My post referred to a new FORMAT.

Sounds like you have no FORMAT examples disproving what I said.
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post #109 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:27 AM
 
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While we're on Bose. First, I am not a Bose basher (see my posts in the speaking section). However, I am willing to bet, Bose makes most of their money from selling wave radios and headests and other sub $500 products amongst their CE products. I'll love to see how their speakers only compare in sales to Polk, Klipsch etc....
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post #110 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:29 AM
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BD can actually be a great format can BOSE speakers actually be good? I'll take BD over BLOSE any day.

It's the job of the salesman to give honest and accurate product info and let the customer decide if it fits their needs.
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post #111 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:32 AM
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Off Topic comments deleted.

Topic: Blu-ray owners only - Keeping or returning - why or why not - poll results....etc.
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post #112 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 01:21 PM
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I should have known a Samsung player would not be a "keeper".

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post #113 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 01:32 PM
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That's why I don't plan to purchase one...

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post #114 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:08 PM
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I have watched 3 movies so far. Terminator, Underworld: Evolution, and Ultraviolet. I will watch 4 more(Terminator 2, XXX, Hitch, and 50 first dates) during the next week before I make my final decision but so far I am most likely returning it. The movies so far were underwhelming. The best one was only equal to OTA HD which is not good enough when HD DVD shows a much better picture at half the cost. If the Samsung player was only $450 like the Toshiba, I would definitely keep it but at $900 with less features it doesn't seem worth it.
You never know these next 4 discs might astound me with it's picture quality.

Edit: I guess I also have The Fifth Element coming from Netflix so I'll have 5 more BD movies to look at over the next week. But from everything I've read I don't think TFE will do much to win me over. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

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post #115 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:36 PM
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The poll question is "Are you happy with your Blu-Ray Player?" but I'm seeing a lot of "No, it's outta here"s due to the software and not the hardware itself...

Maybe the poll should have:
1) Yes, keeping it.
2) Not keeping it because of hardware.
3) Not keeping it because of software.

Just an observation.
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post #116 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 08:46 PM
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Well the Hardware overall is fine but it's not worth $900 for less features than the Toshiba.

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post #117 of 196 Old 06-27-2006, 10:17 PM
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I cannot fathom BB charging a 15% restocking fee. I would argue that I am returning a defective unit.

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post #118 of 196 Old 06-28-2006, 07:33 AM
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Wow, with all the "it's outa here" poll results maybe I should take a harder look at the Samsung I got. I thought it looked very HD even compared to my Tosh...maybe I need to get my eyes checked. In fact the software, or perhaps the player was putting out standard DD sound that was downright staggering in it's intensity. It almost made the Tosh with it's advanced dd+ formats feel "weak in the knees" in comparison, but it was only a first impression. you guys may have something, I'll go reevaluate and probably take mine back too.
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post #119 of 196 Old 06-28-2006, 07:56 AM
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BD = Big Disappointment. Van Helsing BD vs. SD in Toshiba upconverted. Tosh much better. Is this mpeg-2 or the player? So far everthing BD has underperformed.
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post #120 of 196 Old 06-28-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beav
Wow, with all the "it's outa here" poll results maybe I should take a harder look at the Samsung I got. I thought it looked very HD even compared to my Tosh...maybe I need to get my eyes checked. In fact the software, or perhaps the player was putting out standard DD sound that was downright staggering in it's intensity. It almost made the Tosh with it's advanced dd+ formats feel "weak in the knees" in comparison, but it was only a first impression. you guys may have something, I'll go reevaluate and probably take mine back too.
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