Sony has some explaining to do on Blu ray - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert D
Good question. I have to wonder if Sony is even aware that there may be problems. Also not a word from them recently that I can recall about the status of DL 50GB.
I would imagine that there are some pretty high level meetings going on at Sony now. They are probably wondering why their software isn't being accepted as great quality by the AV enthusiasts, and they are probably planning a better PR campaign to bolster sales. Samsung is probably screaming at Sony every day now, blaming them for the poor sales of the Samsung player. I would love to hear these conversations.
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post #182 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fire407
They are probably wondering why their software isn't being accepted as great quality by the AV enthusiasts, and they are probably planning a better PR campaign to bolster sales. Samsung is probably screaming at Sony every day now, blaming them for the poor sales of the Samsung player. I would love to hear these conversations.
I quite sure Sony has seen all the bad reviews. Until they address some of the issues, it makes no sense to try and push sales with a PR campaign. Selling more into a high return rate and poor performance does not help the situation.

My guess is that they will be pretty quiet for a little while while they franticly try to get double layer disks under production for higher quality content and tweak the hardware. Once they get something working that looks a good as what has been offered on HD-DVD (I don't believe there is any -technical- reason why they can't achieve at least the same quality as HD-DVD once they have double layer disks), then you will see them flood the market with PR.

Jim H.
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post #183 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 03:51 PM
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"True. they have done nothing wrong."

"technically sony has done nothing wrong..."


Isn't Sony the main corporation responsible for DL and codec/mastering/duplication? Pretty much the problem? So I guess that is the explaining I'm looking for. Where is their damage control press release over the issues at hand? They don't see a problem? They don't mind a 75% return rate? Hmmm. We have Bdad Bob and the Laughing Man, no problems, no explaining? This really isn't happening. How can this be?
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post #184 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 04:39 PM
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Sony has done nothing wrong stop arguing over it....they promised HD material and if BD is their HD material then they did as promised....they promised 1080p....DONE....promised true HD....DONE....they promised Br players....DONE...where has sony done wrong here?
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post #185 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 04:47 PM
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Who is saying they didn't deliver? We are stating where is the quality? No answers for that it seems, everything A-ok!

By the way if there is True HD, what is considered False HD?
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post #186 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jocktheglide
Sony has done nothing wrong stop arguing over it....they promised HD material and if BD is their HD material then they did as promised....they promised 1080p....DONE....promised true HD....DONE....they promised Br players....DONE...where has sony done wrong here?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but do you truly believe that Sony has done NOTHING wrong? You cannot find one single misstep or mistake they have made with this whole thing? Is Sony perfect?
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post #187 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jocktheglide
Sony has done nothing wrong stop arguing over it....they promised HD material and if BD is their HD material then they did as promised....they promised 1080p....DONE....promised true HD....DONE....they promised Br players....DONE...where has sony done wrong here?
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
That's like me saying my old VHS tapes are HD.IMO my tapes look HD to me so how am I wrong in saying that VHS is HD?
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post #188 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by joerod
Lucy (sony) you have some explaining to do... :D
You think???
Check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=696676

It seems they are screwing up their laptop as well!
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post #189 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 07:55 PM
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A friend that further up the food chain at Sony told me they where waiting for 1.3 HDMI before they released there units... According to this thread it might be well worth the wait, but now you need a new HDTV with 1.3 inputs...

http://www.avrev.com/news/0706/06.hdmi13.shtml
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post #190 of 221 Old 07-08-2006, 08:20 PM
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Sounds like HDMI 1.3 should be a nice leap from 1.2 compared to 1.2 from 1.1/1.0. It's going to cost a fortune upgrading all your old equipments to get that 48-bit color depth, but I guess the lossless digital audio via HDMI will be worth it, too.
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post #191 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mgnff
It's going to cost a fortune upgrading all your old equipments to get that 48-bit color depth.
Uh yeah, the BrightSide DR37-P HDR display, which to my knowledge is the only one of its kind, costs about $50,000.

http://www.brightsidetech.com/products/dr37p.php
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post #192 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mgnff
Sounds like HDMI 1.3 should be a nice leap from 1.2 compared to 1.2 from 1.1/1.0. It's going to cost a fortune upgrading all your old equipments to get that 48-bit color depth, but I guess the lossless digital audio via HDMI will be worth it, too.
Will that increased color depth even be noticable to the naked eye though?
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post #193 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris_TC
Uh yeah, the BrightSide DR37-P HDR display, which to my knowledge is the only one of its kind, costs about $50,000.

http://www.brightsidetech.com/products/dr37p.php
And it's only a 37" screen size at that.So much for getting the most out of HD on that small screen. :(
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post #194 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by evader45
I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but do you truly believe that Sony has done NOTHING wrong? You cannot find one single misstep or mistake they have made with this whole thing? Is Sony perfect?
you guys are missing the point sony said they would deliver and they did, but what they didnt say was that, "blu ray will be better than standard upconverted DVDs" they never said anything all they said and claimed was:
"blur ray if future of HD"
"blur ray beyond HD"
"blur ray is 1080p"
"blur ray is the future"

that is all that is said officially by sony they never said anything about "blur ray being better than HD-DVD officially" all they said was facts and its for us consumers to pick what format is better not for sony to say. In the end its us who pics which has better PQ. ;)
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post #195 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 08:56 PM
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I posted this idea in another thread. Maybe there is method in Sony's madness. Why give a competing manufacturer several months to show off their equipment with the best possible software. Why not cripple the software or at least not put your best foot forward when mastering the discs. Heck, your branded player won't be out for several months after the samsung release, why not hold back some great titles and use better mastering on them. That way you have the ability to say to all those who are on the fence or waiting: "look at our product, it's time to jump in and buy the best possible player. The inital bugs have been ironed out and the picture is fantastic."

I know that has a conspiratist edge to it, but I can definately see a company shooting itself in the foot. Many corporations are penny wise and pound foolish.

Tim Huey

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post #196 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jocktheglide
technically sony has done nothing wrong...
If I did not know better, I would think you were actually attempting to stir the pot here.

-Robert
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post #197 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jocktheglide
you guys are missing the point sony said they would deliver and they did, but what they didnt say was that, "blu ray will be better than standard upconverted DVDs" they never said anything all they said and claimed was:
"blur ray if future of HD"
"blur ray beyond HD"
"blur ray is 1080p"
"blur ray is the future"

that is all that is said officially by sony they never said anything about "blur ray being better than HD-DVD officially" all they said was facts and its for us consumers to pick what format is better not for sony to say. In the end its us who pics which has better PQ. ;)

It's interesting how you used "blur" in all of your quotes :)

First you said Sony has done nothing wrong, now you are saying they have "said" nothing wrong. I disagree on both points. I don't see how they have come through on any of those points you've quoted. Unless if course you add a couple of letters to the first one so that it reads: "blur (sic) ray iffy future of HD"

How can you seriously defend Sony at this point? I know the "war" isn't over, but they have totally dropped the ball so far. They have delayed their player, they cannot get DL disks to work yet, they are using an outdated and inferior codec for their transfers, and the authoring of their initial releases has been horrendous. I fail to see how they have lived up to any of their claims or promises.
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post #198 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evader45
It's interesting how you used "blur" in all of your quotes :)

First you said Sony has done nothing wrong, now you are saying they have "said" nothing wrong. I disagree on both points. I don't see how they have come through on any of those points you've quoted. Unless if course you add a couple of letters to the first one so that it reads: "blur (sic) ray iffy future of HD"

How can you seriously defend Sony at this point? I know the "war" isn't over, but they have totally dropped the ball so far. They have delayed their player, they cannot get DL disks to work yet, they are using an outdated and inferior codec for their transfers, and the authoring of their initial releases has been horrendous. I fail to see how they have lived up to any of their claims or promises.
I believe he is just messing with you all lol. :)
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post #199 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by evader45
It's interesting how you used "blur" in all of your quotes :)



How can you seriously defend Sony at this point? I know the "war" isn't over, but they have totally dropped the ball so far. They have delayed their player, they cannot get DL disks to work yet, they are using an outdated and inferior codec for their transfers, and the authoring of their initial releases has been horrendous. I fail to see how they have lived up to any of their claims or promises.
yeah, but didnt HD-DVD also dealy the players toshiba in this instance didnt they delay it over a year and half? Im not defending sony im just trying to tell you guys sony didnt promise you guys 1000x better PQ in all their sayings and release statements alll they promised was mainly 1080p and true HD and they delievered in their eyes in our eyes it might be different, but if you look at from sonys perspective they did not fail at anything they said and they delivered like they said....get it? Im all for HD-DVD, but to bash sony well....how come we dont have appreciation thread for the sony trinitron TV back in the day those were top notch, why not a appreciation thread for sonys first walkman? the first of its kind? just trying to change everyones perspective that from sonys eyes they did not fail hence thats why are still full force (im assuming) that blur ray is the future along with PS3 sales ;)
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post #200 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
If I did not know better, I would think you were actually attempting to stir the pot here.

-Robert
uhh....nope robert aint stirring nothing im just explaining my point of view from the OP why sony has nothing to explain. ;) as with all threads people get lost from OP saying and questions.
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post #201 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jocktheglide
yeah, but didnt HD-DVD also dealy the players toshiba in this instance didnt they delay it over a year and half? Im not defending sony im just trying to tell you guys sony didnt promise you guys 1000x better PQ in all their sayings and release statements alll they promised was mainly 1080p and true HD and they delievered in their eyes in our eyes it might be different, but if you look at from sonys perspective they did not fail at anything they said and they delivered like they said....get it? Im all for HD-DVD, but to bash sony well....how come we dont have appreciation thread for the sony trinitron TV back in the day those were top notch, why not a appreciation thread for sonys first walkman? the first of its kind? just trying to change everyones perspective that from sonys eyes they did not fail hence thats why are still full force (im assuming) that blur ray is the future along with PS3 sales ;)
No, I don't get it. Thay didn't deliver what I expected. At this point anyway. I'll give them more time, but not much. WTF does the Trinitron or Walkman have to do with this? Sure those were great and succesfull products, but that was years ago. Does what they've done in the past justify them screwing the pooch on Blu Ray? I think not.
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post #202 of 221 Old 07-09-2006, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by evader45
No, I don't get it. Thay didn't deliver what I expected. At this point anyway. I'll give them more time, but not much. WTF does the Trinitron or Walkman have to do with this? Sure those were great and succesfull products, but that was years ago. Does what they've done in the past justify them screwing the pooch on Blu Ray? I think not.
exactly your not looking at this from sonys perspective only your personal self. Of course they didnt deliver in your eyes (makes me wonder even if you had the sammy or toshiba HD players :rolleyes: ), but look at through sonys eyes they did deliver and I put money on it right now they are having a party with 1000 dollars champane bottles from the liscensing fees and all :rolleyes: Im just saying this thread with all threads became a bashing for sony hardly no one responed with ones opinions on the OPs questions and answers.
do you see a diff? I dont personally from my sammy vs toshiba upconverted HD player, but thats how sonys views it thats their version of HD then let it be thats their version leave it alone and let consumers decide who wins:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...1/100_0992.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...1/100_0990.jpg
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post #203 of 221 Old 07-10-2006, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by orsantian
Will that increased color depth even be noticable to the naked eye though?
I'm pretty sure that displays with an increased dynamic range are going to have a major WOW factor. See here:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...hdr_edr/8.html
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post #204 of 221 Old 07-10-2006, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jocktheglide
uhh....nope robert aint stirring nothing im just explaining my point of view from the OP why sony has nothing to explain.
And they laughingly agree with you. But to the OP's part, they are stating Sony has some explaining to do, not that they want to or agree, but from their perspective they do. Sort of like seeing JR doing something wrong and the parent says "You got some explaining to do". JR never planned on doing any explaining but mom and dad are standing there demanding one. But being all of 2006 who's the customer, who's mom and dad? Both old ancient concepts, accountability is no more.
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post #205 of 221 Old 07-11-2006, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evader45
No, I don't get it. Thay didn't deliver what I expected. At this point anyway. I'll give them more time, but not much. WTF does the Trinitron or Walkman have to do with this? Sure those were great and succesfull products, but that was years ago. Does what they've done in the past justify them screwing the pooch on Blu Ray? I think not.
Right now I'm not excited about either one of these formats.

The Samsung Blu-Ray player based on all these posts in this forum seems to have dropped the ball for the time being and the Toshiba HD-DVD Pentium 4 based computer is way too slow and quirky to be considered a serious movie playing product in my household.

Please don't yell at me, but the reality is that my family has gotten so used to fast response times from our current Rotel DVD player that they would not tolerate having to wait for the movie to come on even if the picture is better.

I'm also unexcited about the fact that in order to purchase or view all the movies I would want, I would have to buy both systems.....not happening.

I'm happy for the early adopters....you guys are the real heros here......just hope that within the next year or so a winner comes to light and all movies are produced under one format, the price of admission goes down, and HW and SW improves. Now where did I put my Lucky Rabbits Foot? ;)
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post #206 of 221 Old 07-11-2006, 07:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cawgijoe
for the time being and the Toshiba HD-DVD Pentium 4 based computer is way too slow and quirky to be considered a serious movie playing product in my household.
The player is not quirky other than it takes around 80 seconds from starting it up to seeing an image on the screen (compared to 15-20 seconds on a regular DVD player). Menu navigation and changing chapters etc. are as good if not better than most DVD players that I have owned. Yes, the one problem is when viewing HD movies, stop and resume does not work. But for easily the best video you can experience right now, this is a small trade-off (IMHO). Even the SD DVD upconversion is excellent on the Tosh - at par with some of the very best in the market today that cost more than the A-1. Think about the A-1 as an upconverting DVD player with free built in HD DVD if you are hesitant about entering the hi-def video market and want a top notch DVD player instead :)
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post #207 of 221 Old 07-11-2006, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cawgijoe
Right now I'm not excited about either one of these formats.

The Samsung Blu-Ray player based on all these posts in this forum seems to have dropped the ball for the time being and the Toshiba HD-DVD Pentium 4 based computer is way too slow and quirky to be considered a serious movie playing product in my household.

Please don't yell at me, but the reality is that my family has gotten so used to fast response times from our current Rotel DVD player that they would not tolerate having to wait for the movie to come on even if the picture is better.

I'm also unexcited about the fact that in order to purchase or view all the movies I would want, I would have to buy both systems.....not happening.

I'm happy for the early adopters....you guys are the real heros here......just hope that within the next year or so a winner comes to light and all movies are produced under one format, the price of admission goes down, and HW and SW improves. Now where did I put my Lucky Rabbits Foot? ;)

Thank you for your honest and unbiased opinions. I promise not to yell at you :)

I can see what you are saying and I agree with many of your points. I am not overly excited about either format myself right now. I was planning on sitting on the fence until the dust settled, but after reading some of the early reviews I decided to go ahead and get the Toshiba A1. It is slow to load and mildly quirky, but nothing that seriously bothers me. I am more than happy with the PQ and sound quality of the Tosh and the discs I've watched so far. I figured for $500, there wasn't much risk. I am a little concerned about studio support for HD DVD at this point. I know that can be fluid, but studios can be a stubborn lot when it comes to changing their minds. There are some very good titles out for HD DVD right now, but I have to admit I am pretty underwhelmed by Paramount's list of initial releases. It's still early and many things can change.

Bottom line for me.... I am very pleased with the Tosh and HD DVD at this point in time and very disappointed from what I have seen thus far from the Blu Ray camp. Again, it's early and things can change.

One final thing.... Everyone has their biases. It's human nature. I don't have any problems with biases. But I swear, there are some people on this forum who would buy a dog turd if Sony slapped their nameplate on it. Then they would post on this forum that "It really doesn't smell that bad and there is absolutely no fan noise" :rolleyes:
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post #208 of 221 Old 07-11-2006, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evader45
Thank you for your honest and unbiased opinions. I promise not to yell at you :)

I can see what you are saying and I agree with many of your points. I am not overly excited about either format myself right now. I was planning on sitting on the fence until the dust settled, but after reading some of the early reviews I decided to go ahead and get the Toshiba A1. It is slow to load and mildly quirky, but nothing that seriously bothers me. I am more than happy with the PQ and sound quality of the Tosh and the discs I've watched so far. I figured for $500, there wasn't much risk. I am a little concerned about studio support for HD DVD at this point. I know that can be fluid, but studios can be a stubborn lot when it comes to changing their minds. There are some very good titles out for HD DVD right now, but I have to admit I am pretty underwhelmed by Paramount's list of initial releases. It's still early and many things can change.

Bottom line for me.... I am very pleased with the Tosh and HD DVD at this point in time and very disappointed from what I have seen thus far from the Blu Ray camp. Again, it's early and things can change.

One final thing.... Everyone has their biases. It's human nature. I don't have any problems with biases. But I swear, there are some people on this forum who would buy a dog turd if Sony slapped their nameplate on it. Then they would post on this forum that "It really doesn't smell that bad and there is absolutely no fan noise" :rolleyes:
Thanks for not yelling :)

People are naturally loyal to brands, I see it all the time. My brother-in-law loves Mitsubishi. I have to admit I'm partial to Sony video displays. I do buy other brands however. There are people that won't.

What's interesting is that there has been alot of Sony bashing on this site even though Sony has yet to release their BD player. I realize that they are the big honcho when it comes to Blu-Ray, so maybe they deserve it.

From what I've seen of Blu-Ray, the picture is not as bad as many here will have you believe.....it is just not so much better than SD DVD as was expected.....caveat being....at this point in time. I can say the same for HD-DVD though. Again, this being my opinion.

I'm not going to jump in as I normally do. I have the patience and resolve to wait it out.

Home Theater magazine has a good review this month on HD-DVD and next month they will be reviewing and showcasing Blu-Ray. Except for the slowness of the player.......as they say....this is not a DVD player, but a computer.....they were very pleased with the PQ.
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post #209 of 221 Old 07-11-2006, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman
The player is not quirky other than it takes around 80 seconds from starting it up to seeing an image on the screen (compared to 15-20 seconds on a regular DVD player). Menu navigation and changing chapters etc. are as good if not better than most DVD players that I have owned. Yes, the one problem is when viewing HD movies, stop and resume does not work. But for easily the best video you can experience right now, this is a small trade-off (IMHO). Even the SD DVD upconversion is excellent on the Tosh - at par with some of the very best in the market today that cost more than the A-1. Think about the A-1 as an upconverting DVD player with free built in HD DVD if you are hesitant about entering the hi-def video market and want a top notch DVD player instead :)
The 80 second startup is in line with my projector 2 minutes warm-up. Since the Toshiba is mainly a computer, than you could also do as I do with all my computers at home, kept it on all the time..
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post #210 of 221 Old 07-12-2006, 02:28 PM
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Think about the A-1 as an upconverting DVD player with free built in HD DVD if you are hesitant about entering the hi-def video market and want a top notch DVD player instead
Thats the best argument I have seen for buying the first generation players right now.

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