Some insight on the dual layer 50GB discs. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://www.hddvd.org/messageboard/to...2d6949989974e6

Here are the two posts from the link I fine most interesting.

To quote, what Bill Hunt said was:
******* Start of Quote ******
"By the way, on the subject Blu-ray Disc, we've confirmed with our industry contacts that pre-release 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray titles have been pressed and are working just fine with prototype hardware in testing. What's apparently happening now is that the replicators are working to be able to reliably manufacture them in high quantities."
****** End of Quote *******

This is really nothing new. We can make a few DL BD discs by going through hundreds of throw-aways. At least enough to get a few samples out for testing. But we've got no way of reliably making them in bulk. Until then, BD50 is a pipe dream at the mass consumer level. We have to manually (with much time consumed) test each disc because when yields are this low, statistical sampling fails to be useful.

Brother, that won't work when you want to make 10 million discs!

And a follow up post here.


"Yes, I am directly involved in this stuff.

But there are some things that I can't talk about without giving away who I am. Which I don't want to do because the company I work for is a neutral party to all of this. You know how it is with information leaks. Sooner or later with enough careful attention they can triangulate onto the source. That would be bad for the company and for me personally.

I'm neutral to the extent that the company I work for profits no matter which format succeeds - so long as one of them does succeed. However, having said that, I can't say that I am completely neutral because I'm pissed at Sony and the BDA right now for putting us all into a bind by hyping technology that they haven't got the bugs worked out of right now.

HD-DVD is a beautiful thing by comparison from our vantage point."
Robert D is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rover2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I bet he works for ToysRus :)
rover2002 is offline  
post #3 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002
I bet he works for ToysRus :)
We better hope so otherwise we could be in for a long wait.
Robert D is offline  
post #4 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 01:25 AM
 
lbyard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My guess: Disney.
lbyard is offline  
post #5 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbyard
My guess: Disney.
Disney? Because of the screen name? Could be but I think there are several replication services in that general area as well.
Robert D is offline  
post #6 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 02:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 25
If he is right, this goes right in hand with Amir's comment about a DL BD disc costing "hundreds" to make. While he might not mean "hundreds" literally, it's probaly way too impractical to even consider a mass release on DL BD media.

At this point, the BD camp needs to compete and price and adopt VC1 (or mpeg4 as I'm curious to see how well mpeg4 can compete with VC1).
RobertR1 is offline  
post #7 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 02:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
PFC5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am just upset that Sony could have pulled something like this, and not many people are calling them out on it. It seems they would rather another non-war SACD/DVD-Audio situation than lose the war. I guess that should be expected to some degree, but couldn't their studios just start their double/triple dipping all over again with a new format anyway even if it isn't BD?

Had to move my HT gear list to my profile so click below link to see it:

HT Gear list HERE
PFC5 is offline  
post #8 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 02:47 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dave Mack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 11,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Exactly! SUPERBIT!!!!
Dave Mack is offline  
post #9 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 06:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Andrew P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,594
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Upset, this is typical Sony. Smoke, marketing, and mirrors. People usually hold off and buy what Sony tries to ram down our throats.
Andrew P is offline  
post #10 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 08:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Supermans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
Exactly! SUPERBIT!!!!
If it takes 100 tries to get one Superbit Dual Layer version to actually work. And then someone has to sit there test the movie by fully watching it for hiccups and the dual layer transition. At 10 bucks an hour for the tester alone and about 20 cents per waisted Blu-Ray disc that they turn into a coaster. It would cost about 40 bucks more for a two hour movie on top of the original price.
Supermans is offline  
post #11 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 09:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rlindo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 4,746
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Ouch. If this is true (and I bet it is but no doubt some bluray diehards will say it isn't) then damn...hope for their sake they can get this stuff working more efficiently.

ROB
rlindo is offline  
post #12 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fire407's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbyard
My guess: Disney.
We need a thread where everyone can guess where he works. That "triangulate" thing sounds interesting. Seriously, it sounds like we're a long way from getting the dual layer disks. That is really bad news, because it means that all of the titles in the near future are going to be BD 25.
fire407 is offline  
post #13 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 10:04 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermans
At 10 bucks an hour for the tester alone and about 20 cents per waisted Blu-Ray disc that they turn into a coaster.
Any of these companies would pass on a lot more cost than the guys wages. Even at $10/hr wages it would be a lot more than that for somebody paying a replication house to get 2 hours worth of their time (even if they could verify a 2 hour movie in 2 hours). And I'm sure 20 cents per wasted BluRay disk is way too low. They have to pay for the replication machines and this is a new technology. I would be surprised if the wasted dual layer disks added less than $1 a piece on average at this point. Oh, and if half the disks that got to the test viewer were good and half were bad then there would be his time watching a disk before finding a fault with it.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is online now  
post #14 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
taz291819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Huntsville, Al
Posts: 5,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by fire407
We need a thread where everyone can guess where he works. That "triangulate" thing sounds interesting. Seriously, it sounds like we're a long way from getting the dual layer disks. That is really bad news, because it means that all of the titles in the near future are going to be BD 25.
It didn't sound like that to me. Actually, it didn't sound like anything regarding BD-50, whether it's a long way off or near-future.

Currently testing 3D with Sammy DLP, shutter glasses, and HTPC
taz291819 is offline  
post #15 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 11:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sfhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
How are they "verifying" these things? Do they throw it in a reader and do a bit compare or is it more old school?
sfhub is offline  
post #16 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 11:26 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
amillians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Bloom County
Posts: 4,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I know where he works. They are impartial, having to support both camps, HD DVD and BD. They have a very nice setup, with test lines for both. There also happens to be a test house next door ("testing" is done using machines, by the way).

Alex doesn't live here anymore
amillians is offline  
post #17 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 11:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
sfhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So what standards are they using?

I recall there are PI and PO errors for DVDs and above a certain amount these things are considered "bad"

Are multiple manufacturers' readers used to sample the errors? I recall different drive designs can handle marginal discs better than others and it is best to test with the worst reader. Is there only 1 BD reader out right now or multiple?
sfhub is offline  
post #18 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jagouar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 5,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I also agree dl will be used for superbit type movies for a while (and will cost more because of it so people already pay for for superbit) ...if dl was really at a point that they could reliably manufacture it they would have gone dl from the start.
jagouar is offline  
post #19 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Maybe they'll market it so that the SL media is "HD Movies" where as movies on DL media costing a lot more is "Super/Beyond HD." Then the angle you'd see is that "we give you a higher level of HD, that's never been seen before and you can do it all on one box." Marketing is so much fun!
RobertR1 is offline  
post #20 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Grubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,892
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
That "BurbankWallFly" was the originator of the "BD mastered under 21 GB to improve yields" false rumour.

His credibility is zero.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
Grubert is offline  
post #21 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Robert D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert
That "BurbankWallFly" was the originator of the "BD mastered under 21 GB to improve yields" false rumour.

His credibility is zero.
I guess we will find out around November if there are no 50GB discs in sight.
Robert D is offline  
post #22 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RobertR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: California
Posts: 6,167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 182 Post(s)
Liked: 410
If BD50 doesn't show up in quantity in October (the month Sony says they'll show up), how much trouble will BD be in?
RobertR is offline  
post #23 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nataraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Couple of things.

Sony has to just put out one or two movies on BD50. Then in all their PR they can say BD can do "upto" 50GB.

Second by being a little more careful in authroing, they can get better PQ without BD50 - may be not as good as HD DVD - but better than HOFD. That and PS3 is all they need to fight the war.

Peronsally, now I beleive the first format to get a player out below $150 (or $200) has the best chance to win the war. Irrespective of PQ and other things. DVD is still the favorite to win - with downloads being the darkhorse.
nataraj is offline  
post #24 of 173 Old 06-24-2006, 12:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HorrorScope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NoCal
Posts: 4,251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
^ And imo that is how they play and can see that EXACTLY happening. The 360 has HD DVD coming and I believe it's going to be reasonably priced and between just the game machines I most likely would go 360 over the PS3, with their already proven track record with that unit being out, using proven technology. Really doesn't that all sound familiar? :) It really is an amazing situation; it seems Sony as we know it has their biggest holiday season ever coming up. It must be nuts in-house there right about now.
HorrorScope is offline  
post #25 of 173 Old 06-25-2006, 03:28 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
rdjam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 9,736
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Well - I just don't believe BD claims all is good.

I'll assume not and go on with life.

When they prove it, I'll adjust my decisions accordingly...
rdjam is offline  
post #26 of 173 Old 06-25-2006, 09:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
paintit77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Broomfield, CO
Posts: 1,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So as of right now the only thing BR has going for it is more studio support and the fact Toshiba couldn't market water to Desert dwellers and make enough players.
If Sony was smart, they could end this thing right now by going to VC-1. With the studios backing and the CE BR supporters, even with a smaller disk size, they could still win this thing. Oh yeah, thrown in the fact there retailers are pushing and promoting the BR format and not HD-DVD and it is as easy as spending money. Tioshiba only has one advantage and that is price.

HD-DVD, RIP!
paintit77 is offline  
post #27 of 173 Old 06-25-2006, 09:22 PM
 
BLUR_RAY_NO_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
pressing 50gig disc is not easy, but very doable when blu ray releases 50gig disc you will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie.
BLUR_RAY_NO_1 is offline  
post #28 of 173 Old 06-25-2006, 09:51 PM
Senior Member
 
zeta_msz_006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUR_RAY_NO_1
pressing 50gig disc is not easy, but very doable when blu ray releases 50gig disc you will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie.
More interactivity?? I guess not better PQ huh?? Wow you sure sounds like some Sony PR talking there!!
zeta_msz_006 is offline  
post #29 of 173 Old 06-25-2006, 09:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mpalmieri1203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY
Posts: 2,642
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUR_RAY_NO_1
pressing 50gig disc is not easy, but very doable when blu ray releases 50gig disc you will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie.

Hmmm... Do you have a blu-ray player yet? What titles have you seen? What types of content "will get more interactivity of the movie be more involved into the movie"? Man, I just want to let you know that i love you.

mpalmieri1203 is offline  
post #30 of 173 Old 06-25-2006, 09:52 PM
 
BLUR_RAY_NO_1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeta_msz_006
More interactivity?? I guess not better PQ huh?? Wow you sure sounds like some Sony PR talking there!!
the picture quality alone already is best anyone has seen so how can it get better than 1080p? the current crop of HD dvd only provides 1080i display you cant get better than blu ray alone due to its high resolution capability. :)
BLUR_RAY_NO_1 is offline  
Closed Thread Blu-ray Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off