Just got Samsung BD, have had Toshiba - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:29 PM - Thread Starter
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So having owned the Toshiba HD DVD player for about 3 weeks now, I took the plunge today and bought a Samsung blu-ray.

Here are my thoughts...just honest as possible impressions...

All this talk about HD DVD being the big winner so far, and Blu-ray being exactly the opposite (especially over on the HD DVD side of these forums here) is pure crap. I think the Samsung is actually a very good player, it looks every bit as good as the Toshiba, loads faster, sounds great, and I honestly think at this point that possibly one of a few things have been happening in this forum recently;

Either the HD DVD people want SO much for HD DVD to be the winner, they are looking SO hard for problems with the Samsung, or perhaps just too many people are judging the Samsung by looking at poorly set up displays in the stores, or the $1000 price tag is just swaying people way too much.

Well the way I look at it, honestly how many of you just might be willing to shell out $1500 for a combo player that will do both if you knew both looked pretty darned good? Well, basically I spent $1500 to get both, not in one player but in the two, and I am happy with what I did. I really do think the way either look depends more on either how good the disk was made, or on how good the display is or is set up. I have about 8 HD DVD titles so far and some look good, others do not. The one Blu-ray title I have so far, looks as good as anything I own in HD DVD (it's "Lord of War" with Nicholas Cage).
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post #2 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:35 PM
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I hear you, the cult-like behavior of HDDVD supporters on here is ridiculous.
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post #3 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:39 PM
 
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okay.. i have non of the mentioned players ... so keep ur honest as possible impressions coming. ;)
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post #4 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:46 PM
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What display are you using?

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post #5 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I just read the thread asking how many will return the Samsung and there are some pretty convinced people there! I just don't know, to me it looks pretty good, but then again I have only watched one movie with it. At any rate, that DOES indicate to me something that a lot of the complaints have been directed at..that it's the movies and not the player that have been bad. Makes sense to me!

I watched the Samsung in a local Circuit City for about a half hour before I bought it. It looked pretty good there too!

So, I don't know...maybe it ISN'T the player but the releases so far...

At any rate, I am very happy with it so far!

Oh, and btw I have a 42" Sony LCD rear projection set from about a year and a half ago, not even a 1080i or p. It's only 720p.
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post #6 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:52 PM
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Don't return it if you enjoy it! I have been critical of BD in many of my posts but if the player looks great on your setup keep it! If I were in your position though I would really try to wait until the Pio or Sony players come out...

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post #7 of 192 Old 07-09-2006, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
So having owned the Toshiba HD DVD player for about 3 weeks now, I took the plunge today and bought a Samsung blu-ray.

Here are my thoughts...just honest as possible impressions...

All this talk about HD DVD being the big winner so far, and Blu-ray being exactly the opposite (especially over on the HD DVD side of these forums here) is pure crap. I think the Samsung is actually a very good player, it looks every bit as good as the Toshiba, loads faster, sounds great, and I honestly think at this point that possibly one of a few things have been happening in this forum recently;

Either the HD DVD people want SO much for HD DVD to be the winner, they are looking SO hard for problems with the Samsung, or perhaps just too many people are judging the Samsung by looking at poorly set up displays in the stores, or the $1000 price tag is just swaying people way too much.

Well the way I look at it, honestly how many of you just might be willing to shell out $1500 for a combo player that will do both if you knew both looked pretty darned good? Well, basically I spent $1500 to get both, not in one player but in the two, and I am happy with what I did. I really do think the way either look depends more on either how good the disk was made, or on how good the display is or is set up. I have about 8 HD DVD titles so far and some look good, others do not. The one Blu-ray title I have so far, looks as good as anything I own in HD DVD (it's "Lord of War" with Nicholas Cage).
I get the impression reading your posts that you LOVE Blu-ray and HATE HD-DVD, so I'm really having a hard time believing this post. You have "about 8 titles" like you don't know how many, and "some look good and others do not". What the hell does that mean? After reading reviews here why would you buy the ones that don't look good? I mean the ones that don't look good are really rare and could have easily been avoided. As far as wanting HD-DVD to be the winner, I think most of the people on the forum just wanted a great HD movie experience that HD-DVD has delivered. Many of us thought that Blu-ray was going to be so much superior, and that it would be a very short war with Blu-ray kicking butt. Reality has set in and we see that Blu-ray isn't as developed as we were led to believe, and Toshiba has actually EARNED OUR RESPECT by giving us great quality movies. If Blu-ray goes away tomorrow, I don't care. If the PS3 is everything it's been hyped to be then I'm sure I'll buy one. I really don't care which side wins, but I can tell that you do.
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post #8 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 12:03 AM
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Have to agree with fire407 - reading your post it was pretty clear that you've got some sort of chip on your shoulder.

Honestly, if you can't see how crappy the BD titles that are out right now are than you need to get your eyes checked.

I'm not knocking the player or the format... but the BD launch titles are pure garbage. Bad transfers, bad encodes, all around bad.

Oh... and let's not forget that, with the exception of The Fifth Element, the movies themselves are total crap.... that doesn't help.
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post #9 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanneild
Have to agree with fire407 - reading your post it was pretty clear that you've got some sort of chip on your shoulder.

Honestly, if you can't see how crappy the BD titles that are out right now are than you need to get your eyes checked.

I'm not knocking the player or the format... but the BD launch titles are pure garbage. Bad transfers, bad encodes, all around bad.

Oh... and let's not forget that, with the exception of The Fifth Element, the movies themselves are total crap.... that doesn't help.
While I agree with what you arae saying.....The Terminators are awesome...

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post #10 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
Well I just read the thread asking how many will return the Samsung and there are some pretty convinced people there! I just don't know, to me it looks pretty good, but then again I have only watched one movie with it. At any rate, that DOES indicate to me something that a lot of the complaints have been directed at..that it's the movies and not the player that have been bad. Makes sense to me!

I watched the Samsung in a local Circuit City for about a half hour before I bought it. It looked pretty good there too!

So, I don't know...maybe it ISN'T the player but the releases so far...

At any rate, I am very happy with it so far!

Oh, and btw I have a 42" Sony LCD rear projection set from about a year and a half ago, not even a 1080i or p. It's only 720p.
I agree with you entirely, CJ! I purchased a Sammy and am playing it back through a Sanyo PLV-Z2 front projector, 720p via HDMI. The Sammy is set to output at 720p. I am projecting on a 104" screen which is certainly big enough to disclose even the most minor issue.

I have seen only one movie so far that I think exploits the format sufficiently to convince me that Blu-ray is a superior product: The Fifth Element. I really didn't care for the movie, but all this nonsense suggesting that artifacts and other display issues are the fault of the player is just silly. This is NOT the case, or all movies would look bad--and clearly, they don't.

I have a Denon AVR 2807 receiver, and the LPCM sound is absolutely stunning through my Martin Logan 7.1 channel sound stage.

For those sitting on the fence, don't make judgements made on movie titles--for EITHER format. It's like judging the CD medium based on one or two recordings. Ridiculous.

There are NO problems with the Blu-ray format that wouldn't be shared with the HD-DVD format, and if there are problems with the Sammy, I haven't seen any evidence of them.

HD-DVD will not win the format wars. 17 of the 20 major studios are releasing Blu-ray movies in the near future. Many more hardware manufacturers have adopted the Blu-ray format than have the HD-DVD format. There is too much invested by too many companies for this format to fail. What do these corporations know that would convince them to go Blu-ray?

Toshiba is still begging for a unified standard. Sorry Tosh, it's too late for that now. There is a unified standard, if we can believe 85% of the major production studios. And it isn't HD-DVD.

Ignore them, m'dear: They're beneath your dignity.
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post #11 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire407
I get the impression reading your posts that you LOVE Blu-ray and HATE HD-DVD, so I'm really having a hard time believing this post. You have "about 8 titles" like you don't know how many, and "some look good and others do not". What the hell does that mean? After reading reviews here why would you buy the ones that don't look good? I mean the ones that don't look good are really rare and could have easily been avoided. As far as wanting HD-DVD to be the winner, I think most of the people on the forum just wanted a great HD movie experience that HD-DVD has delivered. Many of us thought that Blu-ray was going to be so much superior, and that it would be a very short war with Blu-ray kicking butt. Reality has set in and we see that Blu-ray isn't as developed as we were led to believe, and Toshiba has actually EARNED OUR RESPECT by giving us great quality movies. If Blu-ray goes away tomorrow, I don't care. If the PS3 is everything it's been hyped to be then I'm sure I'll buy one. I really don't care which side wins, but I can tell that you do.
Sorry you have a hard time believing me but no, I do not "love blu-ray and hate HD-DVD" as I own both now! Yes, about 8 titles..I am sorry I didn't go into my cabinet and count them before writing the post as I didn't think it would have been that important to anyone. What does it mean when I say some look good and other do not? How else can I explain it? Both Apollo 13 and Blazing Saddles blew me away. I have had the DVD of Blazing Saddles for years. I had never seen it look so good as it does now in HD-DVD. On the other hand Jarhead looks pretty bad, and The Fugitive isn't much better. Why would I buy the ones that don't look good? Ummm, I wanted to see the movie? I don't expect absolutely everything to look equally as good, sometimes I just want to watch a friggin movie! Or is that something that a lot of videoheads tend to ignore these days?

You said something very revealing yourself...
"Many of us thought that Blu-ray was going to be so much superior, and that it would be a very short war with Blu-ray kicking butt."
Bingo...well it's NOT so much superior, and they are not kicking butt. Maybe that's why YOU seem so anti blu-ray at this point...you're disappointed in it based on your own pre-conceived ideas my friend. Get over it.

In my opinion, based on what I have seen so far, they are about equal. Don't blame the entire blu-ray format on some bad transfers. That will improve. If they are equal, why did I bother buying a second player? Well, to be able to watch anything put out by any studio...simple.

And Dylanneild, what chip on my shoulder?? I am saying both are good!!!
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post #12 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001
I hear you, the cult-like behavior of HDDVD supporters on here is ridiculous.
Agreed. I have a HD-DVD laptop and a Toshiba HD-A1. I also own a Samsung Blu-Ray player. The Samsung player is better in a lot of ways over the HD-A1. Yes, some of the Blu-Ray titles look worse, but so do some HD-DVD titles.

I think most of the complainers are people that own HD-DVD players and don't want to be stuck with a $500 paperweight in a couple years.
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post #13 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
Oh, and btw I have a 42" Sony LCD rear projection set from about a year and a half ago, not even a 1080i or p. It's only 720p.
Hi,

If I've read the above correctly your TV only accepts 720p for HD? Does that mean for the past 3 weeks you have been outputting 720p from the Toshiba HD-DVD player for the 8 HD-DVD titles you have watched so far?
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post #14 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
I really didn't care for the movie, but all this nonsense suggesting that artifacts and other display issues are the fault of the player is just silly.
I thought most of that comes from BR supporters ...
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post #15 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 07:17 AM
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If the player and movies are good enough for your setup then I agree, by all means keep the Samnsung.

Not everyone here is concerned with getting the best quality from something that costs $1000.00. Enjoy! And to hell with what 80% of the other people think that have returned their players. The fools.
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post #16 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
I have seen only one movie so far that I think exploits the format sufficiently to convince me that Blu-ray is a superior product: The Fifth Element. I really didn't care for the movie, but all this nonsense suggesting that artifacts and other display issues are the fault of the player is just silly. This is NOT the case, or all movies would look bad--and clearly, they don't.
Not really sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that the Fifth Element actually 'exploits the format sufficiently to convince me that Blu-ray is a superior product'? This movie has been universally panned for PQ in just about every Blu-Ray review I've seen thus far. Are ALL these people wrong (both professional reviewers and AVS'rs)? And how do you jump from there to say that this somehow shows that Blu-Ray is the 'superior' format? How has this movie or ANY BR movie demonstrated this? Certainly not with the movies released thus far.

So tell us exactly how BR is the superior format based on hardware/software released to this point. And please don't give us the Sony marketing hype...it's sooo tiring. I'm just curious because maybe I've missed something.
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post #17 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001
I hear you, the cult-like behavior of HDDVD supporters on here is ridiculous.

LOL! :D :D :D

Yeah, I wear a hooded black robe and read passages from the book of the dead before I watch my HD-DVD's. That Samsung/DTS judder thang, I'm proud of that! I did that with an ancient, evil incantation. The curse I put on Sony Blu discs worked too. Over the centuries I have been known by many names, once upon a time I was called Merlin. ;)

In real life I am Dot Mongur champion of the International Pacman Federation. I don't play the game, I operate it.....no dot is safe from me....

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post #18 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:16 AM
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I really think after viewing both players and movies (I have them all for both players) that the war has just started Sony is late as always with VC1 or 50G discs but they will get here....Do ya really think we make much of a difference in the "War" I really do not think so.....I remember when DVD came out I was the first with a player and guess what it still took what 1 1/2 years or 2 for it to really catch on....Come on people give it a rest HD DVD Blu Ray who cares...We are early adopters who try a lot of stuff normal consumers would not....For me I like Movies on both formats some HD DVD look so good its unreal...Some blu-Ray discs look great on my 1080P display....There is junk on both sides of the fence because its so early in the game and growing pains will be there for both sides to work out..

I say quit crying and either buy HD DVD or Blu-Ray or like me get both...I also plan on getting a few other Blu-Ray Players and see if the samsung is not doing such a hot job or not...But ya know what im goning to see for myself not listen to someone else because I want to be the judge......

Sorry for my rant but come on its only a DVD for god sake !!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

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post #19 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:32 AM
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Why is everyone so obsessed with load times?

Anyway, I disagree, the BR video quality does not look as good as HD-DVD, and I am supporting both. The pirates demo looked fugly with lots of grain and pixelation, but Chicken Little looked fantastic. However, I have no interest in CL, so it was the PotC demo that I went for. Plus with Sony saying they are having problems with the DL discs, but not saying what the issue is, AND delaying their players, there seems to be soemthing wrong.

The format wars are over Primal, you lose - Megatron from Beast Machines (partially)

So long HD-DVD, I will miss you no matter how much I complained about Combo Discs.
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post #20 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiningBengal
I have seen only one movie so far that I think exploits the format sufficiently to convince me that Blu-ray is a superior product: The Fifth Element.
Are you friggin' kidding?

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post #21 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:36 AM
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I’m going to give my opinion also. I have both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. The only 2 titles I have for Blu-Ray are Ultraviolet and Terminator 2. I was about ready to take my Blu-Ray player back, and played Terminator 2 extreme edition upscaled to 1080i through HDMI on the Toshiba. Looked flat and lifeless compared to the Blu-Ray version. Blu-Ray has more film grain visible, but this is also present in the Extreme edition, it is just masked more by lower resolution.

My point its, I don’t think this player is as bad as some think. It is much quicker than the Toshiba just to eject a disk. I mean, come on, 30 seconds just to eject it? Please Toshiba. There is no reason for that. I understand the length of time to load the disk and read the security, but to eject? I think some of the player issues can be resolved with firmware. Most of the Blu-Ray issues right now are all about software… Simple as that.

Saying that, I think that right now, HD-DVD has it all over Blu-Ray, and I value it much more. I just don’t think that a few bad releases and bad encoding are the final answer for Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD supporter.
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post #22 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:37 AM
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I am beginning to agree.

I first saw the Samsung with House of Flying Daggers and was anything but impressed. However, other viewings have been very favorable. I have seen the demo disk (spectacular) and Utraviolet (excellent but limited by the stylized source).

I also note that the mainstream press has generally treated the Samsung better than the Toshiba. PC Magazine called the Toshiba "fair" and the Samsung "very good", for example.

I am working on the hypothesis that the early BD disks are not all very good but that the Samsung player itself is fine.

Reading the posts, I think that there is a lack of objectivity about these issues. People are ignoring issues with HD DVD and blasting Blu-Ray for things that are not much worse.
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post #23 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:41 AM
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Interesting...

so people who say hd-dvd is superior thus far are in a cult even though half of them who say they think hd-dvd is much better were either format neutral or favouring bluray and almost all of them who say this actually bought the Samsung player. That's interesting.

Must be a huge AVS conspiracy to kill bluray. That's it....couldn't be the fact bluray has thus far been mediocre compared to hd-dvd based on what 80% of the people who have seen both say here. Nope, couldn't be Sony with their early discs, Samsung with the player issues, Lions Gate with their discissues. Nah, just an AVS conspiracy. I do agree that some seem to go a bit far and imply that bluray could NEVER match hd-dvd PQ simply ebcause of these first discs which IMO is false. However, they are making a comment based on REALITY not theory meaning they are looking at a product that is out now and how it performs. If bluray will get much better (and it should) then maybe they should have held it off until then. Since they didn't, one must then deal with people being ticked off at how it doesn't perform as well as the half-priced hd-dvd player and deal with the posts.

It is funny because I saw some screencaps of 5th element bluray and it barely looks better than the superbit version and as I plainly saw has some weird issues to it like more hairs/spots, etc. Dunno how anyone could say THAT is the best example fo bluray and be serious about it. Yikes.

Weird but hey, whatever floats one's boat. I guess I need to get in on that Sony kool-aid because right now I have a hard time seeing how one can justify inferior quality at twice the price and by all trusted accounts on here, hd-dvd is clearly superior to bluray thus far. Hell even the former bluray fanboy NYG himself prefers HD-DVD at this time...that is ALL one need to see to know what's up.;)

If people are happy wiht their Samsung player and current bluray disc quality then GREAT...just don't say people who feel hd-dvd is better are in a cult.

ROB
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post #24 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
too many people are judging the Samsung by looking at poorly set up displays in the stores, or the $1000 price tag is just swaying people way too much.
The Sony Communications Director of europe has stated the PQ issues are from people setting up there sammy to there CRT sets.You should try useing a HDTV with your sammy and if you still have PQ issues. . . :D ;)
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post #25 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith
I am beginning to agree.

I first saw the Samsung with House of Flying Daggers and was anything but impressed. However, other viewings have been very favorable. I have seen the demo disk (spectacular) and Utraviolet (excellent but limited by the stylized source).

I also note that the mainstream press has generally treated the Samsung better than the Toshiba. PC Magazine called the Toshiba "fair" and the Samsung "very good", for example.

I am working on the hypothesis that the early BD disks are not all very good but that the Samsung player itself is fine.

Reading the posts, I think that there is a lack of objectivity about these issues. People are ignoring issues with HD DVD and blasting Blu-Ray for things that are not much worse.
For many people, the biggest negative thing about the Samsung is its price tag. For a player that is only marginally better than the Toshiba (in terms of load times and the like), and a possibly worser PQ, it has no business playing in the $1000 league, especially when its competition cost just $500. Double the price for almost the same performance is what is getting all the bad rap. IMHO.
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post #26 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:52 AM
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I think people care about video quality. I could care less which format delivers it. I just want the best quality possible.

In my opinion, BD video quality does not deliver in any way, shape, or form. If BD quality ever approaches reference HD material (the reason why I buy HD formats) then I will purchase again.

Of course there are a few people who are enjoying BD now. Personally, I disagree with them and dont think they know reference HD quality, but its good that they are enjoying it.
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post #27 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:54 AM
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this seems like obvious justification of $1k expenditure not living up to expectations.

my advice is to netflix and not purchase Bluray MPEG-2 discs... even if the player itself were to be A+ the software is far, far from it.

DVD's are about movies & people watch them in living rooms, how many people actually use their computer drives to sit and watch movies- Bluray's Andy Parsons
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post #28 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj
For many people, the biggest negative thing about the Samsung is its price tag. For a player that is only marginally better than the Toshiba (in terms of load times and the like), and a possibly worser PQ, it has no business playing in the $1000 league, especially when its competition cost just $500. Double the price for almost the same performance is what is getting all the bad rap. IMHO.
Id pay the same price for similar performance. The problem is that the performance is maybe 50-75% of the competition at this time.
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post #29 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 09:07 AM
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I have both and enjoy both of them. Looking forward to improvements in both mediums. I don't know why everyone is so adamant about this and that. I am lucky that I can afford to experiment with new technology but damn they both look better than DVD.

Rafael
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post #30 of 192 Old 07-10-2006, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfgmdporsc
I have both and enjoy both of them. Looking forward to improvements in both mediums. I don't know why everyone is so adamant about this and that. I am lucky that I can afford to experiment with new technology but damn they both look better than DVD.

Rafael
If Samsung were the only BD player due this year, I'd be right there with you. But at that high a price, and with several other players due soon, why settle for the first player to come along?
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