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post #91 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 11:05 AM
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A number of the Warner releases in particular have been singled out as being substandard by people I'd consider fairly reliable
Your semantic trick (use of the term "a number of" to imply that it's more than two or three) won't work. People know which ones they are, Warner acknowledges the mistake they made and are determined not to repeat it. Sony, on the other hand, still says MPEG2 is the best codec with a straight face.
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post #92 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RobertR
Your semantic trick (use of the term "a number of" to imply that it's more than two or three) won't work. People know which ones they are, Warner acknowledges the mistake they made and are determined not to repeat it. Sony, on the other hand, still says MPEG2 is the best codec with a straight face.

Exactly and Warner produced much better titles after that. Amir also stated that they let their displeasure be known regarding these titles which is quite the change from Sony not even acknowleding the issues.

Issac is one of those people that if BR does bomb will endlessly fault HD DVD and always bring up "BR wouldn't have had this issue!" anytime something needs to addressed with HD DVD.
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post #93 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
A number of the Warner releases in particular have been singled out as being substandard by people I'd consider fairly reliable. From such a small batch this represents a high failure rate.
.... and how would you characterize the failure rate of the Blu-Ray releases at this point? :rolleyes:
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post #94 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 11:37 AM
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Issac,
Why do you hate HD-DVD so much? As someone who's been waiting for a good source of HD at home to replace D-Theater, I am totally happy with HD-DVD. That's not to say I wouldn't be happy with Blu-ray. As I said earlier I totally expected Blu-ray to kick butt and that it would be a short war with Blu-ray as the defacto standard. I was surprised that HD-DVD did so well, and Blu-ray sucked so badly at the launch. Evidently the Blu-ray technology is not as developed as we were led to believe. I may still buy a Blu-ray player when the technolgy matures, but I know that you will never buy a HD-DVD player. For you Blu-ray seems to be life and death.
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post #95 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
Not in everyone's opinion. Interestingly most of the people who do parrot that line seem to also be the most stauch HD DVD supporters.

I have both formats, I can see which titles look good and those that do not. As far as parrots go, I do know that the Blu flavored Kool-Aid cracker is very popular with blind BD supporters.
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post #96 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR1
Exactly and Warner produced much better titles after that. Amir also stated that they let their displeasure be known regarding these titles which is quite the change from Sony not even acknowleding the issues.

Issac is one of those people that if BR does bomb will endlessly fault HD DVD and always bring up "BR wouldn't have had this issue!" anytime something needs to addressed with HD DVD.
Thank God for this poster's ability to see into the future while simultaneously trolling the BD section of this forum. Congratulations, that's a rare talent you have there! :D

Warner are determined not to let the 1080i bobbing happen again, while Sony are unconcerned with their issues? Where does this stuff come from!
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post #97 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertR1
Exactly and Warner produced much better titles after that. Amir also stated that they let their displeasure be known regarding these titles which is quite the change from Sony not even acknowleding the issues.

Issac is one of those people that if BR does bomb will endlessly fault HD DVD and always bring up "BR wouldn't have had this issue!" anytime something needs to addressed with HD DVD.
Thank God for this poster's ability to see into the future while simultaneously trolling the BD section of this forum. Congratulations, that's a rare talent you have there! :D

Warner are determined not to let the 1080i bobbing happen again, while Sony are unconcerned with their issues? Where does this stuff come from!
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post #98 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fire407
Issac,
Why do you hate HD-DVD so much? As someone who's been waiting for a good source of HD at home to replace D-Theater, I am totally happy with HD-DVD. That's not to say I wouldn't be happy with Blu-ray. As I said earlier I totally expected Blu-ray to kick butt and that it would be a short war with Blu-ray as the defacto standard. I was surprised that HD-DVD did so well, and Blu-ray sucked so badly at the launch. Evidently the Blu-ray technology is not as developed as we were led to believe. I may still buy a Blu-ray player when the technolgy matures, but I know that you will never buy a HD-DVD player. For you Blu-ray seems to be life and death.
No hatred here for HD DVD, just disinterest in the same vein as my feelings towards SACD and PS2. The HD DVD trolls on the other hand are blocking up the bandwidth and making it hard to find any worthwhile posts about genuine user experiences with this new format. Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum? The DigitalFreak thread which has just been deleted was one of the latest and more blatent examples. Shame it's not still up for show, since it was a funny expose. :)

Larry, the Kool-aid attack is not only a culture away it's a decade and more out of date. Please step through to the 21st century, fella!
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post #99 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 02:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
No hatred here for HD DVD, just disinterest in the same vein as my feelings towards SACD and PS2. The HD DVD trolls on the other hand are blocking up the bandwidth and making it hard to find any worthwhile posts about genuine user experiences with this new format. Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum? The DigitalFreak thread which has just been deleted was one of the latest and more blatent examples. Shame it's not still up for show, since it was a funny expose. :)

Larry, the Kool-aid attack is not only a culture away it's a decade and more out of date. Please step through to the 21st century, fella!
Here is an example of relative preference on a Nationwide basis. If this makes you feel any better.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/comparison/...ear=B00078GLJY
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post #100 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
No hatred here for HD DVD, just disinterest in the same vein as my feelings towards SACD and PS2. The HD DVD trolls on the other hand are blocking up the bandwidth and making it hard to find any worthwhile posts about genuine user experiences with this new format. Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum? The DigitalFreak thread which has just been deleted was one of the latest and more blatent examples. Shame it's not still up for show, since it was a funny expose. :)

Larry, the Kool-aid attack is not only a culture away it's a decade and more out of date. Please step through to the 21st century, fella!

I will, as soon as BD does. ;) Apparently, MPEG2 isn't cutting it for the "evolutionary" experience that BD fanboys have been promising for the last two years.
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post #101 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by plazman
Here is an example of relative preference on a Nationwide basis. If this makes you feel any better.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/comparison/...ear=B00078GLJY
I'll repeat - Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum? BTW I'm still waiting for you to say what these BDA lies are that you're trying to correct, or did you answer before that thread was sadly deleted. BTW does that mean the Freak has been deleted as well?
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post #102 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
I'll repeat - Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum?
If you're really trying to avoid any contrary opinions, I'd avoid threads like this where the topic of discussion is a negative review of a BD player.
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post #103 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
I'll repeat - Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum? BTW I'm still waiting for you to say what these BDA lies are that you're trying to correct, or did you answer before that thread was sadly deleted. BTW does that mean the Freak has been deleted as well?
It's not propaganda to say that HD-DVD looks better than and is selling better than BD....that's a fact. I wouldn't say he means BD lies....but looks at their advertising at the top of this thread...EXPERIENCEBLU...BEYOND HIGH DEF....that's a lie...unless by beyond high def they mean Extra soft and macroblocked...

I'll say it again...I will be happy with whatever format wins as long as it's picture quality is as good or better than HD-DVD and it's price is on par with HD-DVD. Your inability to see that for at least the moment HD-DVD is the best option...just gives your arguement nothing to stand on....

And the reason this forum is filled with guys that own HD players complaining about BD is beause most of us guys wanted BD to win this right out of the gate...... But guess what happened? BD currently pails in comparison to HD-DVD...

I also liek how you state "a number of HD-DVDs....high failure rate" first off...those discs are not failures. FMJ actually looks better and more detailed then the 4 BD movies I've seen. And 3 out of how many releases...50 some odd? not too bad if you ask me...it's better than being 0 for 8(however many BD releases there are)....

I'd like to hear some positive things about BD in this forum...but if there's nothing positive to say what would you like us to talk about? "gee I really like how that blu light accents my entertainment center!" Just about no one likes the Samsung player...If you want to start a thread praising BD to high heaven PM KevinCA1 and you guys can have a public lovefest for all to see......

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post #104 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:28 PM
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You don't see positive because when someones does the same hd dvd hounds pounce on them and say they cant see or are blind. Once again you did not see all the movies so basing it on those 4 is a mistake. There are some that do look as good if not better then hd dvd but seems the only ones people watch are the ones that are not the greatest but they also look as good as the sub par ones on hd dvd. And none of you will accpet that someone belives it looks good.
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post #105 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
Then again there's an old saying: "If you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys". And I'm guessing DVD Talk doesn't offer financial compensation to their reviewers...
Wow ... with all that has been written about B Hunt atleast no one called him a monkey. You have really raised the standard of discourse here ... :p
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post #106 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:35 PM
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Kevin I have seen Underworld Evolution which...I don't know if that's considered to be one of the good ones(i saw three others I know are constantly put down) The DVD for this movie looks great...the BD looks just like the DVD!! There is digital noise and artifacting! Those things imo are not subjective but objective...transfer either has it or doesn't....all 4 BDs I've seen have it...the three titles constantly refered to as bobed and looking awful look better than the BDs....The BD demo disc which gets raves also shows tons of noise....and I can't stand the pixelation you get on fast motion scenes in BD...it just sucks...and it keeps BD from looking like film...it looks like MPEG2...i will believe that someone thinks it looks good...but when I believe that I will also believe that the persons eyes are not trained enough to know what looks bad...or what shouldn't be there.... It's like the crappy prints of Starry Night that you see...people will be like oh thats beautiful yadda yadda...except most of them look like crud compared to the real thing...the colors are off...it looks soft...but people don't know because they have no basis for comparison..ie the original which is in fact beautiful. The way I feel with HD-DVD is it is true to it's source....FMJ might not look razor sharp...but my god...it looks like film....

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post #107 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nataraj
Wow ... with all that has been written about B Hunt atleast no one called him a monkey. You have really raised the standard of discourse here ... :p
That's pretty funny! But DVDTalk is a great website.....and they do great reviews

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post #108 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:43 PM
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You just proved my point. Any one that thinks blu-ray look pretty good does not have a trained eye? I have a LCD and i know what artifacts look like. LCD shows them more than anything,
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post #109 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinca1
You don't see positive because when someones does the same hd dvd hounds pounce on them and say they cant see or are blind. Once again you did not see all the movies so basing it on those 4 is a mistake. There are some that do look as good if not better then hd dvd but seems the only ones people watch are the ones that are not the greatest but they also look as good as the sub par ones on hd dvd. And none of you will accpet that someone belives it looks good.

When numerous sources indicate that the best on BD look as good as the worst on HD DVD then we have issues......

I have not seen one (1) review where BD disc PQ have exceeded HD DVD PQ. I believe that they will have equal quality once BD gets their **** together.

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post #110 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:47 PM
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Yea the same sources that said HD DVD players where not ready are now praised because it says blu-ray looks terrable. Double standard is being used here. Go back and read Kris review and how he was trashed by hd dvd people.
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post #111 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:50 PM
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No double standard here. We expected Blu Ray to out-perform HD DVD and it simply has not.... especially with all the advertising and pre-launch hype.

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post #112 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:50 PM
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I equate it like this...You go to this resteraunt all the time...the food is gorumet but you're paying McDonald's prices....You have to pay a cover to get in(unit) but it's reasonable and You love it there...In fact if the food isn't great it's still very good. And they include dessert with the price of the meal! AWESOME!

A new restaraunt opens up in town. You have heard nothing but great things about it for a wholle year! The owner even tells you we're going to be better than that other reaurant! In fact we are so confident that we are better we think we will charge double just to enter the door. The restaraunt finally opens! Everyone is excited. You get to the restaraunt...you pay the cover. You sit there. You get the menu and see some choices that should be great. Your order. The food comes. Wow looks like something I've never seen before. You go to take a bite...you realize...my goodness this tastes like...well just like the crap I've been eating for years...the same old boring stuff I make for myself at home(dvd). When you're done you think...well the dessert has to be awesome...well there is no dessert...the restaraunt owner tells you he gives you lovely atmospheric music instead of dessert...WTF!?!?

What restaraunt would you frequent? Why would you frequent it? There is no arguement here....

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post #113 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinca1
Yea the same sources that said HD DVD players where not ready are now praised because it says blu-ray looks terrable. Double standard is being used here. Go back and read Kris review and how he was trashed by hd dvd people.
How is this a double standard...most problems that people were having...are now..non-existant. HD is ready for primetime.... It's not a double standard..those articles were right...Amazing picture...shakey functioning...is this still a problem..no...

BD Experience grasping for straws....

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post #114 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:54 PM
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To quote the great Ronald Reagan."THere you go again" . When will you hd dvd people quit using this price talking point? Why are you hd dvd people not bashing Toshiba for charging 300 more for basically the same player?
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post #115 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinca1
You just proved my point. Any one that thinks blu-ray look pretty good does not have a trained eye? I have a LCD and i know what artifacts look like. LCD shows them more than anything,
I would say that you must not know what to look for. You blindly praise BD..regardless of the fact that you've paid double for your product.

Does BD look better than HD-DVD? in your opinion? I haven't seen anyone ask you that point blank and I'd love to know!

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post #116 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:56 PM
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I have already said it. IT looks just as good on some movies.
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post #117 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinca1
To quote the great Ronald Reagan."THere you go again" . When will you hd dvd people quit using this price talking point? Why are you hd dvd people not bashing Toshiba for charging 300 more for basically the same player?
Because it's an amazing talking point an it's true...Would you pay $7 for a gallon of milk when better tasting milk is available for 3.50?

And we don't bash the XA1 because...you have a choice?? are you seriously going to even attempt to argue that?? It just invalidates and undermines your opinion to other readers even more..

By the way I'm not an HD-DVD person...I'm a quality person...I'm a it better look like film person...Im a it better be a reasonable price person....

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post #118 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 04:00 PM
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I have already said it. IT looks just as good on some movies.
So that is worth the extra $500 for you? how many discs would you say look as good as the 50 hd-dvds?

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post #119 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 04:03 PM
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Oh really charging 300 more for the same player is ok then?? This just invaladated your price point junk. Yes it is worth 500 more to me. of the 14 i would say about 1/2 do.
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post #120 of 163 Old 07-16-2006, 04:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt
I'll repeat - Why should someone not interested in that format be subjected to incessant propaganda and bull from it's supporters, and in the BD forum? BTW I'm still waiting for you to say what these BDA lies are that you're trying to correct, or did you answer before that thread was sadly deleted. BTW does that mean the Freak has been deleted as well?

I went through my posts and looks like it was deleted with the thread. It was 11 points, so will take me awhile to re-write it ;)

Anyway, I'll gather my thoughts if the opportunity presents itself again I'll describe them better.

A synopsys of some common BD lies include:

1.50 GB disks are coming soon. Who says they are coming? Who has heard anything? Also, if they do come what % of movies will be on 50 GB disks?

2. BD says the next round of movies are going to be on VC-1 or advancd codecs? Where has this been announced?

3. BD has better PQ than HD DVD because BD is 1080p and HD DVD is 1080i. Is this true? Certainly the Samsung does not put out better picture than the Toshiba?

4. There will be more movies on BD than HD DVD by the end of the year? Really? Even with 90% studio support we will probably see 50% more movies on HD DVD (or worst case the same number of titles).

5. Toshiba is losing money on each player and hence cannot sustain this for long. This is a common FUD lie and has been refuted by Toshiba.

6. BD players will support 7.1 audio. Which one?

7. The problem isn't with the BD media, it's with the Samsung player. The same movies on the Pioneer BD player looks better than any HD DVD! Helloooooo Bill Hunt!!!

8. The Sonystyle BD demo is a realistic view of the potential of the format. Right! This is a 25 minute demo on a 25 GB disk playing in a player that will not play a real BD movie. Also, none of the actual movies look like the demo. Talk about deceptive marketing....

9. Mpeg-2 is as good if not better than VC-1. Therefore, BD using mpeg-2 on 25 GB disks are equivalent PQ to 30 GB VC-1 HD DVD! Actually the actual available capacity for a BD disk is 20 GB, which makes DL HD DVD disks have 50% higher capacity. So even using VC-1 BD on 20GB SL disks will not equal 30 GB DL disks.

10. BD player prices will fall and eventually both formats will have similarly priced hardware. When? All BD Players announced are 2X to 3X the cost of the A-1. None offer additional features (or anything of substance that will have a real impact on PQ or AQ).

11. BD and HD DVD have equivalent replication costs. Actually, HD DVD is vastly cheaper to set up and manufacture as well as being compatible with current DVD replication lines which will likely co-exist for many years.

When something is not true...it is a lie (IMHO).

The fact is that HD DVD with 30 GB DL disks and VC-1 is looking like the optimal solution for hi-def video. BD is looking like a solution that needs a bigger problem to solve. It is more expensive, more complex and does not provide a superior solution to the problem of hi-def video at home.
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