PS3 still NOT in production - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 219 Old 08-22-2006, 01:54 PM
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I have no problem with that, it's what companies do. Keep in mind that even the current shipping estimates could also be "modified" based on "business conditions" .etc.

Personally I think it's fun to see this kind of thing, with all the hype around PS3 and how it's going to be the last word in consoles it's sort of fun to see some of the wind taken out of Sony's sails.
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post #182 of 219 Old 08-22-2006, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWISTED BULLET
Will the ps3 be released this year?
They only have to sell one to "launch".


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post #183 of 219 Old 08-22-2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10Fan
Couldn't I say the same for the people who will want to believe the worst out of the PS3 no matter what anyone may say to the contrary? Honestly it's pretty juvenile to go back and forth about this ad nauseum.
No and here is why. This is related to interview by a high up sony exec who does know what he is talking about. Therefore i wasnt promoting the very worst just what is most likely true since it is coming from the horses mouth. Getting even an ounce of truth from sony is very difficult and this rings true since what we know of sony's spec makes it impossible for them to be manufacturing anyways (hdmi 1.3). My point was/is that people champion sony's abilitie to do all these crazy things (such as producing 2 million consoles at launch) that normally they wouldnt expect a company with similar resources to do.

As an intelligent person you pick and choose what is credible and what isnt not by what you want to believe but by what rings true and what smacks of spin. Thats what my comment was aimed towards.
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post #184 of 219 Old 08-22-2006, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
Brian - thanks for posting the graphic I found a few days ago.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8246158

I believe that Kaz is trying to play MS here, by saying they haven't started production yet. You might rememer the Asustek report at Digitimes, and then the retraction:

Asustek threatens legal action over incorrect reports on PS3 developments


Quote:
On July 19th, DigiTimes picked up on news that Asustek had commenced shipments of Sony's PlayStation 3 console. DigiTimes cited Apple Daily and the Commercial Times; both Chinese-language publications. According to those reports, Asustek had begun shipping the units in early July and the beginning allotment was supposed to total 4 million units. According to the report, Foxconn Electronics was also due to lend a hand with PS3 production after Asustek depleted its initial batch of shipments.

Asustek wasn't too happy about these reports and is threatening legal action against media outlets. From DigiTimes:

Asustek Computer yesterday issued a stern warning to Taiwan's media about reports that it had begun shipments of PlayStation 3 game consoles to Sony. While declining to comment on the reports, Asustek warned of legal action against media for any incorrect reports that jeopardize its relationships with clients, according to a company statement posted on the Taiwan Stock Exchange's website.

It's not uncommon for hardware manufacturers to go after news outlets for reporting on behind the scenes operations. Asustek has a lot on the line with the launch of the PS3 so they are being extra vigilant when it comes to its role as to not tick off Sony or its suppliers. The highly anticipated console will be entering a ripe next-generation market with the already entrenched XBOX 360 and media-darling Nintendo Wii.
IMO that Asustek report was real. Unfortunately for Kaz he went too far and started to inadvertantly squash the hope for the fanbase. Which I and a few others picked up on. So they put out a retraction, saying that they will still achieve their quantity goals. That way the PS3 fans will still have their hope, but yet MS will think they haven't started production yet.
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post #185 of 219 Old 08-22-2006, 06:38 PM
 
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I know you posted it earlier, some people don't read every post. Was merely pointing it out for Neuromancer.

I think there is a good chance you are right in regards to Asustek.
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post #186 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin1001
Sony will not be $200 over the competitors when the dust from the launch has settled.

They will reduce the price as production goes up, they did this with the PS1 and PS2 as well. This time around they wont be the cheapest, but they will provide (in the consumers eyes) the best value for money.
1) When is the "dust going to settle"? Are we talking 6 months, 12 months, 18 months?? Because until that occurs Sony's competitors have a window of opportunity.

2) Secondly I assume you are speaking for yourself when you make a comment that the PS3 is the "best value for your money"? If potential customers only care about gaming, then maybe some of them will feel that the PS3 is overpriced. If Blue Ray technology is important to you, and you do not want to pay $1,000 for a blue ray player, then yes the PS3 may be a good value for the money. Given the ongoing format war, there are a number of people who may wait before jumping into the high def DVD market. So for those people, the gaming experience may be of the utmost importance. And if you are able to enjoy a good gaming experience on a console that costs $100 - $200 less, some people may elect to buy a Wi or 360.
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post #187 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel
IMO that Asustek report was real. Unfortunately for Kaz he went too far and started to inadvertantly squash the hope for the fanbase. Which I and a few others picked up on. So they put out a retraction, saying that they will still achieve their quantity goals. That way the PS3 fans will still have their hope, but yet MS will think they haven't started production yet.
Sure the asustek report was real. Parts need to be assembled before any production can start. By the way Kaz has been the most honest out of any sony exec about the + and - of the ps3. He also talked about how expensive the games would be which is a big - . I find no reason to not believe his statement here. Production hasnt started. If you want to count mobos being made in another plant as production then we disagree on terms used. The reason i dont count that as production is that they havent even had a chance to encounter the larger problems that start on assembly lines or the result of a production line ps3 (working/not working). Building parts is far less complicated than building the whole.
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post #188 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
Sure the asustek report was real. Parts need to be assembled before any production can start. By the way Kaz has been the most honest out of any sony exec about the + and - of the ps3. He also talked about how expensive the games would be which is a big - . I find no reason to not believe his statement here. Production hasnt started. If you want to count mobos being made in another plant as production then we disagree on terms used. The reason i dont count that as production is that they havent even had a chance to encounter the larger problems that start on assembly lines or the result of a production line ps3 (working/not working). Building parts is far less complicated than building the whole.
I'm no expert, but assembling a PS3 has got to be an extremely complicated process, especially while incorporating any sort of QC. I just don't see how they can bang out a couple million in 2 months. :confused:
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post #189 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatti-man
Sure the asustek report was real. Parts need to be assembled before any production can start. By the way Kaz has been the most honest out of any sony exec about the + and - of the ps3. He also talked about how expensive the games would be which is a big - . I find no reason to not believe his statement here. Production hasnt started. If you want to count mobos being made in another plant as production then we disagree on terms used. The reason i dont count that as production is that they havent even had a chance to encounter the larger problems that start on assembly lines or the result of a production line ps3 (working/not working). Building parts is far less complicated than building the whole.
From all that I've read, Compeq, NPC and Ya Hsin are the assumed mobo manufacturers. Asustek is the assumed manufacturer of the finished console.
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post #190 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic
I'm no expert, but assembling a PS3 has got to be an extremely complicated process, especially while incorporating any sort of QC. I just don't see how they can bang out a couple million in 2 months. :confused:
Despite what Playstation fanboys would like you to believe it's no more complicated than assembly of a notebook computer and millions of those are built every month.

The key difference is that this is the startup of a new production line. There will inevitably be issues with parts availability, unforseen production problems, etc, that will delay things.
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post #191 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 11:43 PM
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thats odd the rumor report i read about asusytek was that they were confirming making parts for the mobos. hmmm does asustek have that kindof production capacity to handle the PS3 launch?
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post #192 of 219 Old 08-23-2006, 11:46 PM
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I expect so. They manufacture millions of motherboards a year (of many different chipsets, northbridges, etc.). I gotta figure that the reason PS3 production is delayed is solely due to the Cell processor and BD-ROM drives. Specifically I believe it to be linked to the BD-ROM drive that will be in the unit since news reports said that the Cell processor is finally being produced in larger quantities like 1 month ago.

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post #193 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 04:59 AM
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PS3 Distribution Trouble?

Quote:
In an earlier reported bombshell, CNBC Financial News reported that the stock of Sony fell 3.1% to 44.42 dollars a share based on the news from Mitsubishi UFJ that Sony might not be able to produce 6 million units of the forthcoming PS3 as previously reported at E3. According to the report from the company, Sony would not be able to meet its estimates for the fiscal year. Instead, Sony is projected by the group to produce about half, or 3 million units, of the next generation system.
Fiscal year is through March 31.
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post #194 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Sony corrects PS3 numbers
Posted by Amber Maitland
23 August 2006 - Sony has corrected numbers put forth by Kaz Hirai, the company's Computer division president in the US, that suggested only 2 million PS3 units would be manufactured by the end of the year.

The corporation has released this statement: "Unfortunately Kaz Hirai's comments in the recent GameSpot interview regarding PlayStation 3 production were misunderstood".

"We are still on schedule to ship 2 million units for our mid-November 2006 launch and additional 2 million units by the end of the year for a total of 4 million units."


http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news.php?newsId=4440
Wow, before production even starts, there goals of 6 million consoles for the year have dropped by 50%. I wonder how much further it will drop if they hit any problems once production does start. I guess the extra 3 million consoles can remain as “potentialâ€

Misunderstood? hahaha

If they can only deliver 3 million out of the 6 million consoles promised by March how can they possibly still be on track to deliver 2 million promised for launch and 4 million by end of 06?

If the overall production for there fiscal year has been cut in half before it even starts production I'd bet you'll see the amount of consoles for launch cut by the same percentage.


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post #195 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 05:32 AM
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Also don't know if this mean anything, but a friend who works for IBM is currently working on a complier for the PS3. He said that it was schedule to be finished at the end of Sept, but this could be just a new development tool for the PS3 though.
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post #196 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 06:26 AM
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By the by, out of excitement I made a program that counts how much time there is left till the PS3 launch. 17 Nov at 10:00, because that is when the shops open here in denmark.

Anyhow I made the mistake of writing it in C#. Now I ordinarily loathe M$ as a company and think that they somehow grew out of a pile of demon excrement, but my hatred for them grew exponentially when I discovered that due to some .net framework crap it only works on PCs that have the newest .net 1.1 framework installed on their windows machines. The ordinary .net 1.1 apparently doesn't work, nuhuh, no sir. Why should it?

If you want to take your chances and see if it works on your PC then PM me with your E-mail and I'll send it to you. Or perhaps suggest a way where I can upload it so people can just download it.

Please if you use it, then do me a favor and curse M$, curse them good. Perhaps if enough many people do it then some god will hear about it and decide to banish them to some black void in hell. Here is hoping.

Usage: Left click to randomize through pics and right click to change countdown format. Double click to make it topmost app and again to reverse it.
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post #197 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 07:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel
PS3 Distribution Trouble?

Fiscal year is through March 31.

3 Million Units through March 31st, divided by 3 Territories. Japan, Europe, North America. If I carry the 1, add this, that give you an average of 1 million units till March 31st. That would mean launch is likely to be very very very dry.

Ahhh, good ole Sony! :p
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post #198 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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TOKYO (Reuters) - Shares in Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, NEWS, Research) fell more than 3 percent by early afternoon on Thursday after a Japanese brokerage cut its rating on the electronics maker and its shipment target for the upcoming PlayStation 3 game console.

Mitsubishi UFJ Securities lowered its rating on Sony to "3" from "2" and slashed by half its estimate on PS3 sales for the current business year ending March 31 to 3 million units, citing difficulties in procuring enough cutting-edge parts.

The PS3, sometimes described as a high-performance home server disguised as a game machine, is powered by the Cell microchip, dubbed the "supercomputer on a chip," and equipped with a Blu-ray next-generation high-definition optical disc drive.

Sony shares were down 3.2 percent at 5,080 yen, underperforming the Tokyo stock market's electrical machinery index (.IELEC.T: Quote, NEWS, Research), which lost 1.51 percent.

A spokeswoman for Sony's game division, which in March delayed the PS3 launch to November from spring 2006, declined to comment.

Sony, which competes with Microsoft Corp. (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and Nintendo Co. Ltd. (7974.OS: Quote, NEWS, Research) in the nearly $30 billion video game industry, aims to ship 6 million units of the latest version of its blockbuster game machine by March.

Slower PS3 sales would affect Sony's bottom line in a positive way in the short term as the company is expected to make a loss on each console it sells at the initial stage.

The Tokyo-based company said in April its game division would rack up an operating loss of 100 billion yen ($860 million) this business year.

It is not unusual for game makers to suffer substantial losses at the early stage of a console launch by setting prices low to spur sales. They typically rake in profits later through game software sales.
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post #199 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Despite what Playstation fanboys would like you to believe it's no more complicated than assembly of a notebook computer and millions of those are built every month.

The key difference is that this is the startup of a new production line. There will inevitably be issues with parts availability, unforseen production problems, etc, that will delay things.
You are correct. I don't understand this ongoing thinking that the PS3 is going to be a cinch to produce from the Sony fanboy camp. To me it's the single most complicated bit of consumer electronics ever made and I give Sony kudos on even attempting it. However, every single bit of electronics in the PS3 is totally state of the art. It's going to take a miracle to make two million PS3's in two months.

What I am curious is how Sony thinks they are going to out sell Microsoft at $750 out the door realistic cost vs. Nintendo's reported <$250 cost and Microsoft's <$500 cost.

I think the only thing that can give Sony an edge is if their games are graphically superior by a great degree over the same 360 games, but I have not seen any evidence of that so far.
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post #200 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 07:28 AM
 
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The XBox 360 consists of 1700 parts.

Sony has said it's PS3 consists of even more parts.

The PS3 should be graphically superior, coming out a year later, but in the end, it most likely won't be, as evidenced by so called 22GB games like Resistance: Fall of Man, grant it, it's still in production and is really a B-FPS game.
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post #201 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 07:30 AM
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Wow!
Amazing considering the recent denial of possible shortages.

A train wreck in slow motion.... it's almost sad to see what has happened to a company that once nearly owned the market.
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post #202 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 07:33 AM
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Mein gotti! My chances of getting one at launch just halved, and it wasnt good to begin with. This is looking more and more like the PS2 and 360 launches.
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post #203 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 08:15 AM
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Here's a pretty interesting article about the Xbox 360 launch:
http://www.reed-electronics.com/CA6328378.html

This basically a positive article about the Xbox 360 and the major suppliers (IBM and ATI); however, the article does touch on a few things that are probably relevant to the PS3 launch. The last sections of the article discuss the console production and launch.

A few key points from the article:

*The Xbox 360 console itself did not go into production until early September.

*It takes six weeks to ship the product by boat to the U.S. and European markets.
I don't work in the CE industry but our company routinely imports commodity type items from Asia. As a general rule of thumb we use 45 days as the time it takes to get from the factory to our warehouse if the product is coming by boat so the 6 weeks from the article is very much in line with our experience. Certainly, air freight is an option but it is incredibly expensive.

*Microsoft missed their production targets because of memory not the CPU and graphics chips they were most concerned about.

*Microsoft sold 1.5 Million units through the holiday season
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post #204 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhdWho
3 Million Units through March 31st, divided by 3 Territories. Japan, Europe, North America. If I carry the 1, add this, that give you an average of 1 million units till March 31st. That would mean launch is likely to be very very very dry.

Ahhh, good ole Sony! :p
But good for the eBay scalpers.

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post #205 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by alfbinet
But good for the eBay scalpers.
Plenty of idiots willing to pay $1000 and up, to play some crappy release date games, for sure.
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post #206 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 10:00 AM
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Do you guys even read the articles you post to, or do you just read "Sony Troubles" and "Half" and then start constrewing ********.

A brokerage company has changed their analysis of the situation from positive (Sony will meet their mark) to neutral (Sony will ship half the units). What you guys fail to see is that their numbers are based off of their (Mitsubishi UFJ Securities) estimates, and not Sony's.

"Sony is projected by the group (Mitsubishi UFJ Securities) to produce about half, or 3 million units, of the next generation system."

Mitsubishi UFJ Securities does not know what Sony is ultimately capable of, they are simply crunching their own numbers to assist their customers (people who purchase stocks and sell stocks). There is not facts, just "esimates" and feelings.
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post #207 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsHT
Wow, before production even starts, there goals of 6 million consoles for the year have dropped by 50%. I wonder how much further it will drop if they hit any problems once production does start. I guess the extra 3 million consoles can remain as “potentialâ€
But what was misunderstood? There is nothing in the Sony statement which claims that anything he said was incorrect in terms of how many consoles they will be releasing.

"Unfortunately Kaz Hirai's comments in the recent GameSpot interview regarding PLAYSTATION 3 production were misunderstood. We are still on schedule to ship 2 million units for our mid-November 2006 launch and additional 2 million units by the end of the year for a total of 4 million units."

So where are you getting your "cut in half" numbers? Seriously, there is nothing to read into.
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post #208 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer
But what was misunderstood? There is nothing in the Sony statement which claims that anything he said was incorrect in terms of how many consoles they will be releasing.

"Unfortunately Kaz Hirai's comments in the recent GameSpot interview regarding PLAYSTATION 3 production were misunderstood. We are still on schedule to ship 2 million units for our mid-November 2006 launch and additional 2 million units by the end of the year for a total of 4 million units."

So where are you getting your "cut in half" numbers? Seriously, there is nothing to read into.
A major brokerage, who has analysts who study these companies and make phone calls to their inside contacts at suppliers, factories, etc, have made the call that Sony can't hit the numbers and the brokerage has lowered estimates.

They don't do that sh!t lightly, they have pretty good info that Sony is going to miss the production targets.
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post #209 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer
Mitsubishi UFJ Securities does not know what Sony is ultimately capable of, they are simply crunching their own numbers to assist their customers (people who purchase stocks and sell stocks). There is not facts, just "esimates" and feelings.
The feelings must hold some weight, since sony stock dropped 3% on the Nikkei.

But yeah, grain of salt, like when reading reports that Sony will rule the world.
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post #210 of 219 Old 08-24-2006, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhdWho
The XBox 360 consists of 1700 parts.

Sony has said it's PS3 consists of even more parts.

The PS3 should be graphically superior, coming out a year later, but in the end, it most likely won't be, as evidenced by so called 22GB games like Resistance: Fall of Man, grant it, it's still in production and is really a B-FPS game.
The ability of having greater storage pales in comparison to the power of the internal bandwidth, which is the PS3's weakest point.

Also, unless the BD-Rom drive is at least a 4x drive (as rumored it MAY be) there is no way that the greater storage is going to be that great of an asset as loading times will be obscene.

Greater storage capacity does not mean greater games. Look at Half Life 2, which is one of the best games ever made and it did not take up a full dvd, let alone 22GB.
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