HD-DVD vs. BLU-RAY: OWNERS OF BOTH FORMATS ONLY!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a lot of misinformation going around here about these players. I would like to hear from folks who own both. Some say there is no difference between the two... others say a slight difference.... while others swear there's a huge difference. I have read all the reviews comparing them but I would like to hear from you guys. I only own the Samsung so I wont post. And remember .. PLEASE... only owners who CURRENTLY have both players!!!!! Thanks.
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post #2 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 05:54 PM
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Shaumus, I own both and paid the same amount for both as well. So...what do you really want to know? How the players themselves stack up? How the software compares?

Software (PQ): The thing is with software, is it's the encoding process that can make or break a movie in the PQ department. For example on the Warner titles like (Firewall), both use VC-1 and I've watch both version twice and there is simply no way to tell the difference. On the flip side MPEG2 can and does look great at high bit rates, however on some of the Blu-ray titles there is clear compression artifacts that make the overall impression of what the movies PQ is as poor. And I'm sure the same would be true for HD DVD. Apples to Apples...Blu-ray vs HD DVD...the two technologies are equal.

Software (Audio): Again same thing here. If the information is stored in the same digital format (ie TrueHD, DTS-HD) and both players are of the same quality the sound will be the same. Apples to Apples...Blu-ray vs HD DVD...the two technologies are equal.

I wish in regards to PQ and AQ, I could say one is clearly better than the other…but like a broken record…if on both format you compare apples to apples they are equal at this point. Maybe BD-50 changes things but a truly doubt it for advanced codecs like VC-1 and AVC/MPEG4. For those codes I’d expect 25 and 30 gigs have plenty of room.

If you want to talk strictly hardware: Toshiba’s High-Def player vs Samsungs High-Def player…it almost doesn’t matter what format it is when your talking about build quality and features.
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post #3 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 06:22 PM
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Player reliability: Samsung BD-P1000 is the winner here. I had to send back my Toshiba because even with f/w 2.0 I couldn't even get through a whole movie (SD-DVD and HD-DVD) with out a freeze-up. The samsung seems to get through any movie. I did have a few hiccups during BD playback, but I think that could have been to some bad line conditioning. However, I am having a DTS playback problem with T2. That seems like a software issue that should easily get fixed with f/w

PQ/AQ: Toshiba HD-XA1 is the winner here. Using more advanced codecs, no picture degrading chip. Really good SD DVD upconversion. This could change when BD fixes their issues.

Load / Startup time: Definitely BD-P1000. No need for explanation here.

Content: It looks like the BD camp is having more of the anime support, so I'm giving it to them. They will probably have Star Wars as well.

That sums it up here. I think I just had a "bad egg" for the Toshiba as most of the players the people have seem pretty good. I sure hope BD can fix some of its software problems for players and discs.

I want my HD DVD / Blu-ray Anime now!!
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post #4 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 06:31 PM
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Well I own both Samsung that is a new model with the chip fix and a Tosh Hd-XA1 and i can say this:
If a title becomes available in both formats I will buy the HD-DVD.
But, if a title i want will never be out on HD-DVD i will buy the Blu-ray dvd.
this is my own criteria for purchasing the movies.
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post #5 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 07:15 PM
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I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 720 Hi Def TV that has been calibrated by a certified ISF tech. My only hi def source is Direct TV, and I only have component inputs as oppose to HDMI, which is a joke at the present time. My DVD player is a Pioneer DV-59AVi. On the best standard DVDs, I've seen pictures which equal the best I've seen on Direct TV in hi def. My question is, do the hi def DVDs look so much better than standard def DVDs so that they are indispensible in your objective opinion? Is it so good, you can't live without it? I've seen hi def at different stores and was underwhelmed. I even saw a demo of the Samsung Blue Ray, and there was a side by side comparison of standard def and hi def, and it was obvious to me that the standard def picture was purposely degraded to look worse than standard VHS. So, whats the truth?
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post #6 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 08:12 PM
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I've got both players but my Toshiba gets little play. In fact, I just upgraded the firmware today for the 2.0 release because it hasn't been powered on in probably a month. Simply put, there are few movies I want on it. I do heavy renting so my only expense has been the price of the players (required purchase; I need them for reviews on my site).

Software for HD DVD has been heads above the majority of BD releases. BD releases in the last couple of weeks have been really shaping up though and I've been pretty pleased. Since WB started coming in and the recent Lionsgate titles I've been much happier. I'm a "on paper it's a better format so I'm waiting for it to achieve that level" much like I did with DVD. (back then I waited to see if dual layer would work on my player and then DTS when that got approved; though that required a new player purchase).

The Toshiba does one thing I like better and that's the windowboxing. The Samsung does not. But for me, the Toshiba is bad for anime as there are interlacing issues because of how anime is created and the Samsung does not display these same problems on titles. I've also had problems with DVD software playback on my Toshiba that were not mirrored on the Samsung. An out of spec DVD wouldn't work on the Toshiba but it did on Samsung.

Each player has its quirks as does each format. I'm happy watching the HD movies I rent so in that sense I'm easily pleased. When there isn't nearly as much financial committment to it you can be sort of laid back about it.
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post #7 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 09:00 PM
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I like both players. The ergonomics of the Samsung are better than the Toshiba. I do, however, like the build quality of the Toshiba better, and the heft of it.

So far, HD DVD has been much better in the software department. Even the lesser titles have a clean appearance, apparently because of the VC-1 codec(though I'm not expert enough to know for sure). The one title that has that same clean look on BD is GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK, probably the nicest Black and White disc I've ever seen on any format. STEALTH and UNDERWORLD also look very nice on BD, but they are just a bit short on that "clean" appearance. They look more like video than film; gorgeous video, but still video(and some people may prefer that). Many of the other titles I've seen aren't up to par, but I blame bad software, not the Samsung, which seems to be fine when good software is fed to it. I'm looking forward to CORPSE BRIDE and other VC-1 and AVC titles on BD, which should help Blu-Ray to become comparable to HD DVD in the quality department.

Audio: both are good in this regard. I don't have TrueHD yet on the Tosh, but DD+ sounds really good. The Sammy's audio on Dolby Digital sounds better to me than regular DVD's. CD's sound really good on both players, with a slight edge to the Tosh through the analog connections.

I have expressed dissatisfaction with BD in the past, sometimes very angrily, on these boards. It's mainly because the early software has been, for the most part, a disappointment, and the seemingly bi-weekly issues that are reported with the Samsung(Genesis chip, no BD50 without firmware update, etc.).

I've also been frustrated because a few members here don't seem to like any negative feedback about BD. In retrospect, I can understand where they're coming from, as relentless attacks seem to be the norm from extremists on both sides these days. But, at the end of day, it's only a home video format, and it's not worth getting upset about, especially when you look at all of the real issues plaguing our world these days.

I plan to continue to support both formats, and hopefully they'll both flourish and gain in quality for years to come, and provide loads of entertainment to all of us. I also plan to stay out of any flame wars on these boards in the future. ;)
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post #8 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 09:21 PM
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I have both. Just to touch on one point, I know people didn't like that Amir mentioned that the Samsung didn't have a detachable powercord, but since both of the players lock up at times, I find the detachable powercord on the Toshiba to be nicer. I just reach behind and unplug it and back in. With the Samsung I have to follow the cord to figure out which outlet I plugged it into. Okay, I know it is a small thing, but it is something. :)

I loaned the Samsung out and hope to get it back to look at "Blazing Saddles" and "Full Metal Jacked" this weekend.

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post #9 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby
I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 720 Hi Def TV that has been calibrated by a certified ISF tech. My only hi def source is Direct TV, and I only have component inputs as oppose to HDMI, which is a joke at the present time. My DVD player is a Pioneer DV-59AVi. On the best DVDs, I've seen pictures which equal the best hi def I've seen in standard DVD. My question is, do the hi def DVDs look so much better than standard def DVDs so that they are indispensible in your objective opinion? Is it so good, you can't live without it? I've seen hi def at different stores and was underwhelmed. I even saw a demo of the Samsung Blue Ray, and there was a side by side comparison of standard def and hi def, and it was obvious to me that the standard def picture was purposely degraded to look worse than standard VHS. So, whats the truth?
This post does not meet the criteria for what the OP is asking. If you want to switch topics from what the OP has requested, then please do the polite thing and start a new thread. Since he made it very clear in the title and the original post that to respond you must own both HD resolution players......Many might call this threadcrapping

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post #10 of 45 Old 09-08-2006, 09:59 PM
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I have both players. In my view the HD-DVDs have been, taken all together, better picture quality than the BD DVDs. Since I am already invested in the hardware, I am hoping that improvements in the software and/or FW updates will raise the BD up to the HD-DVD level.
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post #11 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster
This post does not meet the criteria for what the OP is asking. If you want to switch topics from what the OP has requested, then please do the polite thing and start a new thread. Since he made it very clear in the title and the original post that to respond you must own both HD resolution players......Many might call this threadcrapping
I'm definitely not trying to taint or "thread crap" the topic, but just get an honest answer. How about Private mailing me. This goes for all posters on this topic as my inquriy is genuine. Incidentally, I edited my post as one sentence was not clear. In any event, the reason for the post is that folks owning both can make an intelligent comparison on the picture quality of hi def DVDs versus standard DVDs on a calibrated monitor done by a certified ISF tech.
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post #12 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBurgundy
Shaumus, I own both and paid the same amount for both as well. So...what do you really want to know? How the players themselves stack up? How the software compares?

Software (PQ): The thing is with software, is it's the encoding process that can make or break a movie in the PQ department. For example on the Warner titles like (Firewall), both use VC-1 and I've watch both version twice and there is simply no way to tell the difference. On the flip side MPEG2 can and does look great at high bit rates, however on some of the Blu-ray titles there is clear compression artifacts that make the overall impression of what the movies PQ is as poor. And I'm sure the same would be true for HD DVD. Apples to Apples...Blu-ray vs HD DVD...the two technologies are equal.

Software (Audio): Again same thing here. If the information is stored in the same digital format (ie TrueHD, DTS-HD) and both players are of the same quality the sound will be the same. Apples to Apples...Blu-ray vs HD DVD...the two technologies are equal.

I wish in regards to PQ and AQ, I could say one is clearly better than the other…but like a broken record…if on both format you compare apples to apples they are equal at this point. Maybe BD-50 changes things but a truly doubt it for advanced codecs like VC-1 and AVC/MPEG4. For those codes I’d expect 25 and 30 gigs have plenty of room.

If you want to talk strictly hardware: Toshiba’s High-Def player vs Samsungs High-Def player…it almost doesn’t matter what format it is when your talking about build quality and features.
How about Disk durability???? BD's have a hardcoating ...what kind of hardcoating does HD-dvd have to prevent scratches?
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post #13 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby
I'm definitely not trying to taint or "thread crap" the topic, but just get an honest answer. How about Private mailing me. This goes for all posters on this topic as my inquriy is genuine. Incidentally, I edited my post as one sentence was not clear. In any event, the reason for the post is that folks owning both can make an intelligent comparison on the picture quality of hi def DVDs versus standard DVDs on a calibrated monitor done by a certified ISF tech.
well there can really be no comparsion yet at this point since mpeg encoding=noise in the picture for bluray.
The bluray titles are authored very inconsistently with some scenes very soft and others looking o.k.
Like I said if a title comes out in both formats i will buy the hd-dvd one everytime until sony can put something out that is equal to hd-dvd and not just 1 movie but quite a few as hd-dvd has done.
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post #14 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 12:43 PM
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I have had both for several weeks now and have claimed that I see no difference whatsoever in picture quality, none!

That said here are some observations...

While the Toshiba IS built better as some say, what difference does that make? The thing sits on a shelf, it is not portable. The Toshiba has a very slow startup time and one of the worst remotes ever built. It is so difficult to make out what each buttons do due to the poor quality of the stenciling, it is virtually useless.

On standard DVDs, the Toshiba shines though. I have been watching some old TV shows that I had watched on a standard DVD player many times and there is an impressive advantage to viewing them on the Toshiba. The Samsung will not give you this advantage though as it stretches the image to fit the entire HD format screen (even though the original was recorded on a 4:3 format). This is unacceptable and for this reason I would never buy the Samsung if I wanted to use it to view standard DVD.

The only reason I own both is so that I do not have to pass on a movie that I would like to own in HD format which is what I would have to do if I own only one of these players. I was able to afford both, so I did it. Having said that, if I were to own only one, it would be the Toshiba for the mere fact that it does a better job with standard DVDs. Also, if money is an issue I think the Toshiba has to be considered a better buy.

Hope this helps.
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post #15 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 03:50 PM
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Does this thread count for those who bought both players but returned the Blu-ray player for a refund?

It's all just a game. I just play to win.
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post #16 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
While the Toshiba IS built better as some say, what difference does that make?

Good build quality helps improve video and(especially) audio.
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post #17 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
The Toshiba has a very slow startup time and one of the worst remotes ever built. It is so difficult to make out what each buttons do due to the poor quality of the stenciling, it is virtually useless.
While I'm no fan of the Toshiba remote, it's fairly easy to memorize and feel where the important buttons are. The Samsung player is worse, IMO. Important functions like Play and Pause are consolidated into the same button, I'm constantly getting the FF and Skip buttons confused because neither one is in an intuitive position, and the "Menu" button next to the directional ring is not the disc menu button but rather the player Setup menu button. There are 2 separate disc menu buttons hidden at the bottom where you'd never think to look for them.

As for not seeing a difference between the two formats, I might suggest updating your eyeglasses prescription.

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post #18 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 06:13 PM
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Real home theater enthusiasts have programmable remotes of their own. :)

I dislike both of the remotes but to me the Samsung is the better of the two but that's damning it with faint praise. I'd love to have one of those remotes that look cooler than the old pronto that I could never figure out how to program but I love my MX-500.
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post #19 of 45 Old 09-09-2006, 08:31 PM
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good thread guys

-Gary
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post #20 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby
I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 720 Hi Def TV that has been calibrated by a certified ISF tech. My only hi def source is Direct TV, and I only have component inputs as oppose to HDMI, which is a joke at the present time. My DVD player is a Pioneer DV-59AVi. On the best standard DVDs, I've seen pictures which equal the best I've seen on Direct TV in hi def. My question is, do the hi def DVDs look so much better than standard def DVDs so that they are indispensible in your objective opinion? Is it so good, you can't live without it? I've seen hi def at different stores and was underwhelmed. I even saw a demo of the Samsung Blue Ray, and there was a side by side comparison of standard def and hi def, and it was obvious to me that the standard def picture was purposely degraded to look worse than standard VHS. So, whats the truth?
gbaby -- Just to offer an alternative point of view, I thought your post was reasonable. Anyway, an off-topic post bothers me much less than does ill-tempered, unsolicited advice -- if you know what I mean. :)
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post #21 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 08:18 AM
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I owned both players, but returned the Samsung after a few weeks of use. The Samsung is a decent player, but the picture quality was very poor. I will buy back into BD once the new releases are more consistent. I dont blame the player or Samsung for this as I believe its the mastering process.

The Toshiba player is slow to boot, but I never had any issues through all of my firmware upgrades. The remote is decent, but I pretty much just watch the movie so I dont use it often. Picture quality is phenominal and the price was just right.

In the end I expect similar from both formats, but I prefer to spend the least amount of money possible and will stay with HD DVD for the time being until the picture quality of BD improves.
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post #22 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P
I owned both players, but returned the Samsung after a few weeks of use. The Samsung is a decent player, but the picture quality was very poor. I will buy back into BD once the new releases are more consistent. I dont blame the player or Samsung for this as I believe its the mastering process.

The Toshiba player is slow to boot, but I never had any issues through all of my firmware upgrades. The remote is decent, but I pretty much just watch the movie so I dont use it often. Picture quality is phenominal and the price was just right.

In the end I expect similar from both formats, but I prefer to spend the least amount of money possible and will stay with HD DVD for the time being until the picture quality of BD improves.
Even at the risk of being savaged, I will admit up front that I haven't bought either a BD or HD DVD player yet. Nevertheless, I have done a lot of research on the subject, so perhaps my post on the issue might be forgiven.

I agree that the immediate weakness with BD, PQ, seems to be on the road to being solved. Once most BD discs are encoded in VC-1, their PQ should be comparable to HD DVD and BD seems to have more up side than HD DVD. But at double the price of an HD DVD player with no better PQ, I can't see buying BD right now.. Although, I have come close to buying an HD DVD box, I haven't done it yet. My bottom line on the issue is that it's still too early, so I'll stick with my old upconverting DVD player for the time being.
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post #23 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 11:30 AM
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I have a question for you. Did you pay 50 for your dvd player or did you pay 100? if you paid 100 why in the world did you pay that when you can get the SAME PIC for 1/2 price??

This price thing is assine and riddiuclas,. Time after time it has been reported when dvd came out people bought the 1000 player 33% to 4% of the cheaper player.

You also forget you get 90% studio support to 40%.
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post #24 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 11:48 AM
 
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Right now if you buy tge Samsung you get fewer movies and movies that on avg. are inferior. In future, you'll get better BD players. So if you don't want HD DVD, I'd say wait.

Also, I'm not sure how the 90% support v. 40% is being thrown about. Is this on total available catalog?

I'd wait a month or so to see if there will be additional studio support for HD DVD....

Will we have more titles on BD v. HD DVD by sometime next year? I don't know.
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post #25 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies everyone, but once again only post if you CURRENTLY OWN BOTH PLAYERS ... meaning right now you have both players in your possession... This will keep the topic on topic. Thanks!!!
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post #26 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P
I owned both players, but returned the Samsung after a few weeks of use. The Samsung is a decent player, but the picture quality was very poor. I will buy back into BD once the new releases are more consistent. I dont blame the player or Samsung for this as I believe its the mastering process.

The Toshiba player is slow to boot, but I never had any issues through all of my firmware upgrades. The remote is decent, but I pretty much just watch the movie so I dont use it often. Picture quality is phenominal and the price was just right.

In the end I expect similar from both formats, but I prefer to spend the least amount of money possible and will stay with HD DVD for the time being until the picture quality of BD improves.

I have BOTH players and I can't notice the difference with the newer BD releases like House Of Rejects,RV,Silent Hill compared to HD-DVD releases. I don't think the PQ was ever POOR. But now its equal in my eyes with the newer releases. Personally I like the Samsung player. Build wise. But I prefer playing SD DVD's over the Toshiba. The Toshiba is better upconverting DVD's than the Samsung.
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post #27 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 01:10 PM
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At the risk of getting chastised because I own neither:

Do you people who own both use component or hdmi for video?

Scott Stephens
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post #28 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 01:57 PM
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Great thread!!!!.

I own both and am very happy with both formats, here is my 2 cents for those interested.

I have the Hd-xa1 and love the looks and feel of this player. Software dependent, movies can look good to "OH MY GOD" incredible. Audio delivers on all fronts and I have no complaints in that department. The remote stinks and my player has some audio & playback freezing issues, but nothing major. On to my biggest gripe, the load times are horrible, everyone I invite to demo Hd Dvd says "I think your player is broken". Works great as a standard dvd player and I love Toshiba's customer support (software update discs). All in all, very happy, but I hate the load time.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8094/1000120kh5.jpg

The Bp-1000 looks great and has excellent build quality (my wife loves the look of the Samsung, while I prefer the Tosh). Also software dependent, movies can look good and can also provide the "OH MY GOD" feeling but currently they are far & few between. We watched Firewall on Blu last night and man the PQ was incredible (I picked up the Blu Ray version because I hate the Hd Dvd combos). I have yet to experience any freezing or audio dropouts, no stuttering on the Lionsgate titles either...knock on wood. Blu also delivers on the audio front as with Hd Dvd I have no complaints here. The remote for the Samsung is as bad if not worse then the toshiba, at least the Tosh is backlit and feels very solid but to be fair both are a total pain to use. The Samsung is also great with standard dvds and performance between the two are about even (I still prefer to use my Pioneer Elite player for Sd Dvds). As of now Samsung customer support is non-existent but I have no issues with the Bp-1000, I believe the software not hardware is the issue to earlier Blu Ray PQ problems. Again all in all very happywith the Samsung.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/874/1000123tf3.jpg

In closing, neither is perfect nor badly flawed and I am happy I have been givin the option and privilege to support either formats. I know some on this forum think they have a "RIGHT" and not "PRIVILEGE" of owning either formats and bash others on their "CHOICE". Let me say how great it is when you have more choices, there's no format war in my house...just my 2 cents!!!!!!

CK

I'm no videophile, but I know what looks good to me.
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post #29 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sstephen
At the risk of getting chastised because I own neither:

Do you people who own both use component or hdmi for video?

I use a Monoprice HDMI switcher for both. Works great.
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post #30 of 45 Old 09-10-2006, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
While I'm no fan of the Toshiba remote, it's fairly easy to memorize and feel where the important buttons are. The Samsung player is worse, IMO. Important functions like Play and Pause are consolidated into the same button, I'm constantly getting the FF and Skip buttons confused because neither one is in an intuitive position, and the "Menu" button next to the directional ring is not the disc menu button but rather the player Setup menu button. There are 2 separate disc menu buttons hidden at the bottom where you'd never think to look for them.

As for not seeing a difference between the two formats, I might suggest updating your eyeglasses prescription.

Ya know what Josh? That really is uncalled for! I could just as easily say to you that you need to learn how to adjust your monitor...but I won't. I don't need glasses, nor do I have any problem seeing poor video quality in side by side comparisons.

BTW, I use HDMI
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