Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player now shipping! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Blu-ray Players > Panasonic DMP-BD10 Blu-ray player now shipping!
drsiebling's Avatar drsiebling 01:06 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
Is this player available as the thread title suggests?
My local Tweeter will have mine for delivery on October 3rd. Other sources are reporting delivery dates on or right around the same date.
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samiam95124's Avatar samiam95124 01:36 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark0
Great looking player!
But the $1300 is too steep for me.
Why price it cheaper? These are all first unit models designed to get the
makers foot in the market. Toshiba priced their HD-DVD unit reasonably, and now
they are in short supply, and Toshiba is end-of-lifing that unit.

Why price something low that you have no ability to deliver in quantity?
bloodta's Avatar bloodta 04:48 PM 09-18-2006
Relatively new here. So, can I or can I not use the Panny BD10 analog outputs to get TrueHD or DTS HD or uncompressed 7.1 audio with my 7.1 reciever? I be confuseded.
thebland's Avatar thebland 04:58 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsiebling
My local Tweeter will have mine for delivery on October 3rd. Other sources are reporting delivery dates on or right around the same date.
Did they give you a spec sheet confirming the presence of TRUE HD or DTS HD decoders (that need firmware updating)??
shamus's Avatar shamus 05:20 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodta
Relatively new here. So, can I or can I not use the Panny BD10 analog outputs to get TrueHD or DTS HD or uncompressed 7.1 audio with my 7.1 reciever? I be confuseded.
When and if the Panny decodes any of those codecs....
shamus's Avatar shamus 05:21 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
Did they give you a spec sheet confirming the presence of TRUE HD or DTS HD decoders (that need firmware updating)??
Unless Im getting mixed up, it wont decode those untill January from a promised firmware...
drsiebling's Avatar drsiebling 05:26 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
Did they give you a spec sheet confirming the presence of TRUE HD or DTS HD decoders (that need firmware updating)??
They did not, unfortunately. I'm banking on info I got from calling Panasonic product support at 800-211-PANA. I spoke with a representative there who did confirm the future upgrade via firmware. Of course, he could be wrong... however, several sources from this board have confirmed that same info, so I think it is pretty much buttoned up that this player will have that capability.

In other words, I'm crossing my fingers.
shamus's Avatar shamus 05:28 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsiebling
They did not, unfortunately. I'm banking on info I got from calling Panasonic product support at 800-211-PANA. I spoke with a representative there who did confirm the future upgrade via firmware. Of course, he could be wrong... however, several sources from this board have confirmed that same info, so I think it is pretty much buttoned up that this player will have that capability.

In other words, I'm crossing my fingers.
Those 7.1 outs look very appealing....
Earz's Avatar Earz 05:32 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid
MPEG2 is based on a inherently blocky (macroblock) prone technology - old stuff.

VC1 is based on wavelet technology (imagine it like the smoothscan that Panasonic uses on some of their projectors, without the blur some seem to see).

Yes, to decrease the blockiness inherent in MPEG2 you can increase the bit rate (Superbit DVD anyone) and the preceived image will improve.

However, the point is, VC1's image is truly better, not just preceived better. The tech is proven to be better (through wavelet tech alone for that matter) and the results have been known for many years (by the pros).

Those of you who actually are in the video producing business should know this, through your hopefully many years of understanding how wavelet tech works (I know I do). Please chime in at any time...

As far as the Panasonic having or not having Dolby-TruHD, why even worry about it. Sony and its consortium of merry followers have decided it is NOT a manditory requirement of the Blu-Ray format, so its support on Blu-Ray will be dubious at best.

Now, it is manditory on HD-DVD (thank you DVD Forum) so followers of that format should expect many releases to enjoy.

Hey, be happy with PCM, Sony wants you to be, so just do it!!! :eek:
Yes those 24 bit DTS Master audio Fox titles should pale in comparison to those lousy four 16 bit dd tru hd titles available on hd dvd. ;)

Your blathering (fud) on codecs is 100% b.s.......the real experts are the ones that compare for them selves on screens measured in feet....not inches....Vc1 is most definitely not better (except in efficiency) than MPEG-2 at this point....so try selling it somewhere else.
jmpage2's Avatar jmpage2 05:50 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus1099
When and if the Panny decodes any of those codecs....
Are there even TrueHD or DTS-HD Blu-Ray titles available or announced?
yoyoniner's Avatar yoyoniner 06:30 PM 09-18-2006
^

All of the Fox titles (DTS HD Lossless Master Audio)....

Specs:

BEHIND ENEMY LINES: Marked as one of the studio's first three BD-J releases, BEHIND ENEMY LINES features DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and MPEG 4 compression. The disc also includes commentaries by Director John Moore, Editor Martin Smith, and Producers John Davis and Wyck Godfrey, as well as selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.

FANTASTIC FOUR: Presented with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, the HDMV Blu-Ray Disc of FANTASTIC FOUR boasts commentaries by Ioan Gruffud, Jessica Alb a, Chris Evans, Michael Chiklis and Julian McMahon, and selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.

KINGDOM OF HEAVEN (Director's Cut): To accommodate the full 3 hour and 42 minute run time of Ridley Scott's Director's cut version of his epic masterpiece, KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is one of the industry's first dual-layer BD releases and is authored in HDMV presented with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio.

KISS OF THE DRAGON: Authored in HDMV with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, KISS OF THE DRAGON includes commentaries by Chris Nash, Bridget Fonda, and Jet Li, as well as selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.

THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN: One of the industry's most advanced BD releases, THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN is authored in BD-J with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and AVC (MPEG 4 compression) and includes commentaries by the cast and crew, a unique search index which allows the viewer to sort scenes from the movie into 72 categories ranging from actor (e.g., Shane West, Sean Connery) to character (e.g., Allan Quarterman, Agent Tom Sawyer) to locations (e.g., Paris, Venice), among others. Additional features include an interactive first person shooter game boasting 12 unique play modes, up to 99 bookmarks, an animated pop-up trivia track, and HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.

THE OMEN (666): Authored in HDMV with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, THE OMEN (666) includes commentary by John Moore, Glenn Williamson and Dan Zimmerman, two featurettes and two extended scenes plus a BD-exclusive animated pop-up trivia track entitled "The Devil's Footnotes," which explores the history of the triple sixes (666).

SPEED: This BD-J release boasts DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and MPEG 4 compression. Special features include commentary tracks and commentary chapter selections by Jan De Bont, Graham Yost, and Mark Gordon, as well as an animated pop-up trivia track, up to 99 bookmarks, a 56 category search index (see description on THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN) and a java game entitled, Speed: Take Down, touting six game play modes. The title also includes HD trailers for upcoming BD releases.

THE TRANSPORTER: Authored in HDMV and presented with DTS HD Lossless Master Audio, THE TRANSPORTER Blu-Ray Disc features commentaries by Actor Jason Statham and Producer Steven Chasman, in addition to host of selectable HD trailers of upcoming BD releases.
rider's Avatar rider 06:35 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin
Mark,

Sorry; I had no intention of discussing codecs.

My post was in response to the discusion in this thread about this player outputting TrueHD as decoded PCM, so it would be available to current receivers/processors, meaning we wouldn't have to wait for HDMI 1.3 next yr. Then came the predictable snarky thread thrashers, who are too busy being derogatory and sarcastic to make much sense...

From everything I've read, for conformance to DRM agreements, these players:
1) will only make TrueHD and DTS-HD available via 7.1 analog or HDMI 1.3 (encrypted data, not PCM), or
2) will transcode them down to DD+ and/or DTS for output.

If this is not true I would love to know; if someone could post a reference I would be most appreciative.
bferr1's Avatar bferr1 06:36 PM 09-18-2006
^^ Note that KOH is "one of the industry's first dual-layer BD releases," not the actual first DL release. Black Hawk Down, anyone? :)
alfbinet's Avatar alfbinet 07:09 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bferr1
^^ Note that KOH is "one of the industry's first dual-layer BD releases," not the actual first DL release. Black Hawk Down, anyone? :)
How many of these will be pressed and available?
darinp2's Avatar darinp2 07:16 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyoniner
... a unique search index which allows the viewer to sort scenes from the movie into 72 categories ranging from actor (e.g., Shane West, Sean Connery) to character (e.g., Allan Quarterman, Agent Tom Sawyer) to locations (e.g., Paris, Venice), among others.
I would like to see Warner release "10" and have a feature like this so I can just watch scenes with Bo Derek in them. :)

--Darin
Richard Paul's Avatar Richard Paul 07:59 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigVid
Dolby TruHD IS, however, manditory on HD-DVD...
Dolby TrueHD is mandatory on HD DVD for stereo decoding so the difference is not that great. Also DTS-HD is going to be used later this year by Fox and that is not mandatory for either HD format.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rider
Then came the predictable snarky thread thrashers, who are too busy being derogatory and sarcastic to make much sense...
What doesn't make sense? HDMI encrypts both audio and video and can send up to 8 channels of PCM at up to 24/192. HDMI can be used right now to deliver DVD-A, SACD, uncompressed PCM audio from Blu-ray discs, and decoded Dolby TrueHD audio from HD DVD discs. It wouldn't even make sense to encrypt only the video with HDMI since the audio is sent over the same exact cables.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rider
If this is not true I would love to know; if someone could post a reference I would be most appreciative.
You can download the HDMI 1.3 specs here.
yoyoniner's Avatar yoyoniner 08:08 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider
From everything I've read, for conformance to DRM agreements, these players:
1) will only make TrueHD and DTS-HD available via 7.1 analog or HDMI 1.3 (encrypted data, not PCM), or
2) will transcode them down to DD+ and/or DTS for PCM output.

If this is not true I would love to know; if someone could post a reference I would be most appreciative.
A couple people have already told you it is not true yet you continue to argue it. The internet is your reference. I even just read it in the latest Widescreen Review interview: Any version HDMI can transmit 8 channels of fully uncompressed audio that was decoded by the player (whether it be TrueHD or DTS HD Master) up to 24-bit, 192Khz, ~36mbps, to your very non-HDMI 1.3 receiver. It is part of the HDMI spec.

So pertaining to the thread topic, when the Panasonic firmware ships and the player is able to decode TrueHD and DTS HD Master, in the real world you will be able to output this to any receiver with analog inputs OR any receiver with HDMI (any version HDMI) inputs. Again, it does not have to be HDMI 1.3, it only has to be 1.3 if the player does not do the decoding and you want the receiver to do it.

I hope that helps. None of us are trying to be snarky or thread trashers (in fact this is my own thread), but it doesn't help when you are being argumentative about this rather than saying "I stand corrected."
yoyoniner's Avatar yoyoniner 08:14 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider
From everything I've read, for conformance to DRM agreements, these players:
1) will only make TrueHD and DTS-HD available via 7.1 analog or HDMI 1.3 (encrypted data, not PCM), or
2) will transcode them down to DD+ and/or DTS for PCM output.

If this is not true I would love to know; if someone could post a reference I would be most appreciative.
A couple people have already told you it is not true yet you continue to argue it. The internet is your reference. I even just read it in the latest Widescreen Review interview: Any version HDMI can transmit 8 channels of fully uncompressed audio that was decoded by the player (whether it be TrueHD or DTS HD Master) up to 24-bit, 192Khz, ~36mbps, to your very non-HDMI 1.3 receiver. It is part of the HDMI spec.

So pertaining to the thread topic, when the Panasonic firmware ships and the player is able to decode TrueHD and DTS HD Master, in the real world you will be able to output this to any receiver with analog inputs OR any receiver with HDMI (any version HDMI) inputs. Again, it does not have to be HDMI 1.3, it only has to be 1.3 if the player does not do the decoding and you want the receiver to do it.

I hope that helps. None of us are trying to be snarky or thread trashers (in fact this is my own thread), but it doesn't help when you are being argumentative about this rather than simply saying "I stand corrected, thanks for the info."
rider's Avatar rider 09:28 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul
HDMI encrypts both audio and video and can send up to 8 channels of PCM at up to 24/192. HDMI can be used right now to deliver ... decoded Dolby TrueHD audio from HD DVD discs. It wouldn't even make sense to encrypt only the video with HDMI since the audio is sent over the same exact cables.
I never said they were encrypted separately...(?) I, like you, said the HDMI datastream is encrypted.
I haven't seen where DRM agreements will allow the players to decode TrueHD or DTS-HD and then send it out via a digital but unencrypted (PCM) signal. Did you find this in the HDMI spec?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyoniner
The internet is your reference. I even just read it in the latest Widescreen Review interview: Any version HDMI can transmit 8 channels of fully uncompressed audio that was decoded by the player...
Could you give me a link to read this review? Thanks.
Enigma's Avatar Enigma 10:23 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider
I never said they were encrypted separately...(?) I, like you, said the HDMI datastream is encrypted.
I haven't seen where DRM agreements will allow the players to decode TrueHD or DTS-HD and then send it out via a digital but unencrypted (PCM) signal. Did you find this in the HDMI spec?
I think the point is that the player decodes the signal from it's compressed format (TrueHD or DTS-MA, etc); then, in addition to converting to analog and sending out via 7.1 analog outputs, it also sends out the uncompressed PCM via HDMI ver 1.1, 1.2, etc (no need for 1.3). It's still HDMI, so it's still using HDCP copy protection. But any receiver with 1.1, 1.2, etc can receive and use this multi-channel PCM stream, just as they could a similar stream coming directly off some of the Blu-Ray discs. The receiver doesn't know where the PCM came from.
rider's Avatar rider 10:37 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma
the player decodes the signal from it's compressed format (TrueHD or DTS-MA, etc); then, in addition to converting to analog and sending out via 7.1 analog outputs, it also sends out the uncompressed PCM via HDMI ver 1.1, 1.2, etc (no need for 1.3). It's still HDMI, so it's still using HDCP copy protection.
I hadn't seen where the players will be allowed to decode the HD formats and then send out as HDCP-protected PCM over HDMI....if that's the case, that's good short-term (pre 1.3 availability) news re. these players.
Thanks.
Richard Paul's Avatar Richard Paul 10:58 PM 09-18-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rider
Did you find this in the HDMI spec?
They do explain a bit about Audio Content Protection (ACP) and how PCM audio is encrypted using HDCP.
g55555sim's Avatar g55555sim 12:57 AM 09-19-2006
back to topic .. Panasonic canada has announced that the same player will be available in Canada as early as next month at the price of CAN$1,499.95.

Quote:
The player features Panasonic's proprietary P4HD technology; a 296MHz, 14bit Video D/A converter that provides high quality 4x oversampling for 1080i/720p output; and noise shaping video processing that shifts the noise component to an unused band to further boost the signal-to-noise ratio. It is backward compatible with regular DVDs and CDs, and up-converts video playback from DVDs to 1080p using HDMI. The DMP-BD10 will be available in October for $1,499.95.
http://marketnews.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=2150
joshd2012's Avatar joshd2012 05:56 AM 09-19-2006
Check out post #84 of this thread. :D
GoldenBoy's Avatar GoldenBoy 06:13 AM 09-19-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2
Are there even TrueHD or DTS-HD Blu-Ray titles available or announced?

FOX announced a few titles with DTS-HD MA.
g55555sim's Avatar g55555sim 06:15 AM 09-19-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshd2012
Check out post #84 of this thread. :D
opps .. sorry for my temporary blindness :p
Neo1965's Avatar Neo1965 08:55 AM 09-19-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4K display
Excellent :)

I see Panasonic is far more in tune with the exchange rate than Sony or Samsung...
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../18/c6846.html

Panasonic Blu-ray Disc Receiver (SA-XR700) - The SA-XR700, Panasonic's
first Blu-ray matching receiver


Ouch, now I'm sorry I picked up a Pioneer VSX-1016 to switch HDMI last week.

Has anyone seen any place that takes orders for the DMP-BD10?
AnthonyP's Avatar AnthonyP 08:12 PM 09-19-2006
Quote:
oopps .. sorry for my temporary blindness
I also missed Josh's post, so it wa a good thing you reposted
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar DTV TiVo Dealer 11:54 PM 09-19-2006
I liked this player when I saw it at CEDIA. Far better than Samsung's BD-P1000.

I belive actual delivery to stores will be early October as they still have not been received at Panasonic's CA import facility and after they arrive in the US they need to pass QC.

-Robert
suprmallet's Avatar suprmallet 11:59 PM 09-19-2006
Is it just me or does it seem like that Panasonic receiver can't decode any advanced audio?
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