HD-DVD/BD prediction - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz
I decided to sell most of my hd dvd movies because the players are all POS IMO.

So for me....BD has already won. ;)
Hmm, all ears and no eyes, I guess!
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post #92 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty22001
You answered your entire post right there. I'm looking for a good BD player and will go with the PS3. $600. Nothing else can be said.

The rest of your argument reminds of when they said nobody would go to 3 1/4 disks or cdrom cause everything was on 5 1/2 disks and it would cost too much to convert.
I'll admit that I used my PS2 as a DVD player for a while, but it was a pretty crappy DVD player. The PS3 may very well be my first BD player, but it doesn't look like we will be able to get one easily until March '07. Who knows by then.
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post #93 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 12:44 AM
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HD DVD versus Blu-ray could also be like World War I.

No one wanted war but war happened because of the arrogance of the old regimes.

The Central Powers (Germany Austria Turkey) (think Blu-ray) held all the initial military advantages with early strategic advantage with the most territory, interior lines, most developed military and early momentum. Their early advantage at the start of the war was halted by a desperate Allied defense of Paris. A limited Allied counterattack (think the Toshiba HD A1) did not have enough resources to succeed yet was enough to bring upon a stalemate which lasted for years. Both sides increasing deployed more effective weapons of war but until the German offensive of 1918 no side would budge. But the predicted final major offensive, (think PS3) was a failure, as Germany did not have enough resources to exploit success and the arriving American forces (think Microsoft) with their suprisingly effective forces (think 360) arrived in the nick of time to bring upon Germany's (Blu-rays) defeat.

BTW: I could probably write it the other way around ;) Its that the PS3 upconversion news has me in a sour mood about Blu-ray today.

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post #94 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 01:17 AM
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Consumers haven't noticed because HD DVD has not tried to market to them yet.

Those 70,000 players in generation one will be sold essentially by word of mouth with almost no advertising or point of sales support.

When advertising kicks in after the November elections as the new generation 2 players and the Xbox 360 add on kicks in HD DVD will have a chance to sell more units.

With the lack of SD upconversion in the PS3, and the limited supply at launch, it looks more and more that the PS3 will not be actively advertised as a Blu-ray movie player. Since it is likely the only Blu-ray player under $999 MSRP or certainly $799 MSRP throughout most of 2007, that means HD DVD will have a significant price advantage for entry level players and existing Xbox 360 owners can get a player with a movie (King Kong) and a remote for under $199 for Xmas 2006.

The Xbox 360 HD DVD launch will actively promote the HD DVD format. And since HD DVD is an brand extention of both HD TV and DVD it will make sense in consumers minds faster than Blu-ray will.

It is likely that consumers may associate "Blu-ray" as the PS3's HD format and HD DVD as the successor to DVD because of the name and the price points.

30 GB versus 50 GB is the only real easy to understand consumer advantage that Blu-ray will have if movies are available in quantity in both formats. Studio support , bandwidth , etc will be hard to publish in point of sale displays. HD DVD price may trump that point.

Blu-ray's success will depend on how the PS3 manages as a Blu-ray movie player and if PS3 owners buy Blu-ray movies. With Sony conflicted about that capability of the PS3, it is likely that BD movie sales will be lower than HD DVD movies sales this Xmas season. That will likely cause some studios to support HD DVD more and Blu-ray less.

from the Toshiba site on the HD A1
Quote:
Converts standard DVDs to either 720P or 1080i to match your HDTV's performance
from the RCA site
Quote:
True High Definition Video From HD DVD Disc Playback
HD Up-Conversion of Standard DVD Discs
Fully Compatible with Standard DVDs and Audio CDs
http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/callout4.html

from Microsoft Xbox site
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...er/default.htm

Thats a simple message that Blu-ray players can't make as some won't play CDs and other won't upconvert DVDs.

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post #95 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon
All things being equal, as you yourself say, people will gravitate towards the cheaper option. Thus HD-DVD is the one that will win, because it will always be cheaper for the same or better PQ.
Nail on the head!

Roll back the clock to... VHS versus BETA.

VHS = Technically not as good, and much cheaper at launch!

BETA = Technically better, but was more expensive than VHS when launched.

Consumers purchased based on price / best value for money... and VHS was therefore the winner.

VHS = HD DVD = best value for consumer dollar.
BETA = Blu-Ray = Sony does it again!

Readers of this forum represent the tech savy minority, who traditionally support the technically superior product (although in this case tech savy support is split between both formats).

The vast majority of consumers do not care or understand the technology, they are only interested in the best value for money proposition, that delivers a sharp clear image on thier new HD Ready flat panel TV.

I'm a minority tech savy early adopter, so I'll probably buy both formats, but at the moment I'm enjoying my HD-A1 and 45 purchased HD DVD titles, and resisting the temptation to buy an expensive Panasonic player (which I simply cannot justify, but would like to own anyway!) :)
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post #96 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty
With the lack of SD upconversion in the PS3, and the limited supply at launch, it looks more and more that the PS3 will not be actively advertised as a Blu-ray movie player.
Yeah, I guess that's why they are including TN on BD with PS3.. :rolleyes:
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post #97 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 03:20 AM
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That enclosure of one BD disc and the enclosed literature describing what the Blu-ray format is is about the minimum marketing support that Sony can do for Blu-ray disc. I predict they will do the minimum.

I also predict their will be little to no broadcast advertising mention of Blu-ray movie playback for the PS3. All the PS3 spots will be dedicated to gaming or general PS3 branding, not Blu-ray movie playback. I may be wrong, but I don't think Sony will split the advertising message.

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post #98 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctakim
I'll admit that I used my PS2 as a DVD player for a while, but it was a pretty crappy DVD player. The PS3 may very well be my first BD player, but it doesn't look like we will be able to get one easily until March '07. Who knows by then.

Dude when do you plan on getting this ps3??

Listen i want one too but realistically, that wont happen till xmas 2007....and please dont think your getting one for $600....lol....they will jack that price up to at least $800 for the first 5 million units.....$600....i wish...

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post #99 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty
BTW: I could probably write it the other way around ;) Its that the PS3 upconversion news has me in a sour mood about Blu-ray today.
That is what makes analogies so much fun.

/carmi
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post #100 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 08:11 AM
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Obviously, just my opinion - everyday HD-DVD exists is a day lost for Blu-Ray. Every HD-DVD player and movie sold is a player and movie sale lost to Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray has done more to help HD-DVD than Toshiba in its wildest dreams could have ever hoped for! A year ago HD-DVD wasn't given a chance. Today its like an insurgency picking apart its much more powerful but arrogant adversary with persistence and a calculated brutal strategy. BRs in big trouble because even a stalement is really a loss for Blu-Ray and that's when the rats start to jump ship.

Cheers,

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post #101 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKiwi
Nail on the head!

Roll back the clock to... VHS versus BETA.

VHS = Technically not as good, and much cheaper at launch!

BETA = Technically better, but was more expensive than VHS when launched.

Consumers purchased based on price / best value for money... and VHS was therefore the winner.

VHS = HD DVD = best value for consumer dollar.
BETA = Blu-Ray = Sony does it again!

Readers of this forum represent the tech savy minority, who traditionally support the technically superior product (although in this case tech savy support is split between both formats).

The vast majority of consumers do not care or understand the technology, they are only interested in the best value for money proposition, that delivers a sharp clear image on thier new HD Ready flat panel TV.

I'm a minority tech savy early adopter, so I'll probably buy both formats, but at the moment I'm enjoying my HD-A1 and 45 purchased HD DVD titles, and resisting the temptation to buy an expensive Panasonic player (which I simply cannot justify, but would like to own anyway!) :)
Lets get the facts straight here.

VHS had the majority studio support including porn......which is now obviously in BD's favor....and definitely not hd dvd.
Panasonic was the big name for VHS.....now they are a main backer of BD.

What cheap VHS players.....the first hi fi players were 12-1600.00 list :confused:

This time around hd dvd is Beta IMO.
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post #102 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 08:55 AM
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ok, I was originally sold on this idea of the PS3 being a BD player for only $600.00 until one thing occured to me - EBAY. consider the idea that most of the first batch of PS3s will be on ebay for alot more than $600.00 can you really say it will be the cheapest BD player? would you actually pay the ebay scalper mark up just so you can have this "cheap" player?
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post #103 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishicks
ok, I was originally sold on this idea of the PS3 being a BD player for only $600.00 until one thing occured to me - EBAY. consider the idea that most of the first batch of PS3s will be on ebay for alot more than $600.00 can you really say it will be the cheapest BD player? would you actually pay the ebay scalper mark up just so you can have this "cheap" player?
Even on Ebay I expect they're going to be hard to find. I don't think it's going to be a viable option for someone who wants to go out and buy BD player until mid-2007. On the very local scale, it's a non-issue to me--I'm not going to have one, regardless of MSRP, street price, or what I could bid on Ebay. The fact that it doesn't upscale, however, turns me off immediately anyway.

On the macroscopic scale, it's still important. 400,000 BD players in homes this winter. It's going to be interesting to see the trend in software sales immediately after the PS3 is released, and how it impacts the format war.

Adam
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post #104 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 10:38 AM
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My opinion is that it's not in sony interest to build PS3 as best Br player ever...if so they are betraying their own partner ( Pioneer, pana and so on and themselves). Every body will try to get one and then what's about other stand alone players which costs 1000€ to 2000€? just tell them go to hell?
On the other hand, if the test of first PS3 is not convincing, that would also give bad effect on PS3 sale
What"s a dilemma!
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post #105 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz
Lets get the facts straight here.

VHS had the majority studio support including porn......which is now obviously in BD's favor....and definitely not hd dvd.
Panasonic was the big name for VHS.....now they are a main backer of BD.

What cheap VHS players.....the first hi fi players were 12-1600.00 list :confused:

This time around hd dvd is Beta IMO.
Possibly a fair call!

According to wikipedia VHS won due to:
Quote:
Some accounts claim that VHS won because it initially allowed for twice the recording time — the original Beta format was limited to one hour, but this was soon replaced by the two-hour Beta II version. Beta I was obsolete by the time Betamax reached Europe, in 1978

Others attribute the success of VHS to the greater availability of pornography on that medium, reflecting the long standing tradition of pornography being the driving force for the takeup of new media (the Internet being another obvious example).

JVC and Sony used different marketing models for their technology: JVC licensed their VHS technology to consumer electronics companies like Zenith and RCA, which then produced low-cost VCRs, enriching JVC through royalties paid under its license. Fewer companies were licensed to produce Beta machines.

The VHS camp had access to high-street TV rental chains (in the UK) like DER and MultiBroadcast. With a VCR costing about a month's wages, two competing standards, and a reputation for expensive repair bills, rental was considered the more attractive option at the time.
Based on this account of history, BD certainly has the higher data capacity (per layer), and this time around it is not only Sony that are producing the players.

Interesting to note that a VCR cost about a months wages - probably about the price today of a Panasonic Blu-Ray player (depending on what country you live in).

Hmmm... who will release porn titles first? ;)
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post #106 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 12:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Monty22001
400k will have BD players with a free movie in a month. You're just wrong.
YEAH! Just like the PSP launched UMD into the stratosphere!


..................wait a minute.....
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post #107 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 01:02 PM
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Although I do like the trojan horse concept of Sony "forcing" Blu Ray into millions of homes via PS3, thereby allowing them to tout their already installed user base, here are my concerns:

1) I don't envision the demographic of PS3 users also being Blu Ray early adopters i.e. after spending $600 on a system, another couple hundred on games, I can't imagine the 18-34 set then going out to buy a few $30 hi def DVDs initially, so the sales boost may be minimal at first.

2) Early adopters won't wait 6 more months for PS3 availability, then settle for a watered down player that doesn't even upconvert their thousands of existing DVDs, so they'll spring for a true player, but will the price be significantly lower by then?

3) If Microsoft can release a $200 HD-DVD player, do you honestly think Sony et al are giving you $400-800 MORE PQ? Remember, how it connects (non-HDMI) was Microsoft's decision, not the ability of the actual player. I'd be surprised if there is a noticeable diff. in audio/video vs. the PS3's player.

Theoretically, if Blu Ray doesn't come out on top, Sony will be sitting on a $600 game machine that just so happens to play Blu Ray discs, the very reason that it was delayed a year. So now they will be going on 2 straight holiday seasons with a vast majority not even getting one. Next year MS will be on their 3rd wave of titles which may end up looking better than Sony, only because they are more familiar with its ability. It would be sad to see them go down with 2 ships instead of one, granted PS3 will sell boatloads, but its a safe bet they would've sold alot more if there weren't all these Blu Ray delays. :o

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post #108 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Monty22001
That 360 add-on won't sell more than the Sega CD. Console addons have never sold well, and this one will really tank.
The 360 HD DVD add-on is currently ranked #1 for computer and video games on Amazon.
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post #109 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 01:41 PM
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That 360 add-on won't sell more than the Sega CD.
:rolleyes:

C'mon dude, that thing offered nothing, maybe playing CDs at best. This add-on is allowing you to get in on next-gen technology for hundreds less than a standalone right now. Next year it will be under $100 and still be a pretty good deal.

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post #110 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roma_victor
The 360 HD DVD add-on is currently ranked #1 for computer and video games on Amazon.

Dude i quoted you just for the signature.,.....lol....gg....anyway, again i'll say it....i want a ps3 really ,really bad as i was told it would support a mouse/keyboard out of the box now i just dont know...i am a fps fan and i miss the days of my favorite console the dreamcast and playing Q3ARENA on a 56k modem with mouse and keyboard...that was sweet...i was hoping to do the same with the ps3....but like i said, in order to get one before xmas 2007 i would have to wait in line to pay $800 us for the basic unit........and now it wont upconvert dvd,s???that is lame.....i want one for the gaming not the movies.......i will guaranty this much...if you get one before summer 2007 you will not pay $600 for a base unit........and i was one of the sheep that thought BR was better because it was 1080p.....lol...was i stupid....i am telling you hd dvd will win or they will have a truce that is initiated by sony....

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post #111 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by deez
i am telling you hd dvd will win or they will have a truce that is initiated by sony....
Every discussion Sony and Toshiba had so far was for Blu Ray - not HD DVD. If there is a Truce, it will be so that Toshiba will get royalty for each Blu Ray sold. Maybe they'll call it "Blu Ray HD DVD". In order for HD DVD to win, it's has to be decisive, as in complete domination over Blu Ray. In order for Blu Ray to win, they just have to have edge in installbase (PS3 anyone?) and sales.

Let's not forget that the war is pretty much over in Japan. Blu Ray is decimating HD DVD, and when the PS3 is out, it's done. The PC industry is heavily towards Blu Ray. It's not about PQ or AQ anymore. Why do you think HD DVD owners are complaining about Best Buy pushing aside HD DVD, and Citcuit City dropping it? When the Blu Ray players become cheaper, it's going to be the Sony PR machine going into effect.

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post #112 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited
Every discussion Sony and Toshiba had so far was for Blu Ray - not HD DVD. If there is a Truce, it will be so that Toshiba will get royalty for each Blu Ray sold. Maybe they'll call it "Blu Ray HD DVD". In order for HD DVD to win, it's has to be decisive, as in complete domination over Blu Ray. In order for Blu Ray to win, they just have to have edge in installbase (PS3 anyone?) and sales.

Let's not forget that the war is pretty much over in Japan. Blu Ray is decimating HD DVD, and when the PS3 is out, it's done. The PC industry is heavily towards Blu Ray. It's not about PQ or AQ anymore. Why do you think HD DVD owners are complaining about Best Buy pushing aside HD DVD, and Citcuit City dropping it? When the Blu Ray players become cheaper, it's going to be the Sony PR machine going into effect.
If the PC industry is behind these formats, where the %$&*(% are the BD-ROM drives, genius?

Do you have sales figures for Japan or are you just blowing smoke?

The sales figures on Amazon show HD DVD destroying Blu-ray in every way possible. The HD DVD add-on for Xbox360 is the #2 seller in Computer & Video Games.

How do you figure "it's done" when PS3 comes out? They will be in limited supply, Blu-ray decks will STILL be upwards of $1000, and average folks like my parents don't go out looking to buy a game console for Blu-ray playback.

And for the record, Circuit City hasn't dropped support for HD DVD... they just never really supported that heavily to begin with. THen again, Circuit City also supported the competitor to DVD called DIVX. That format crashed and burned, so Circuit City is not what I would call a smart or reputable retailer.

For a format to win, what you NEED is mass market pricing for the standalone decks. DVD took off once the decks hit the $350 mark. The rest is history. Right now, HD DVD players are available for around $400 online. The closest Blu-ray can get is a $700 refurbished Samsung.

So, you're logic (if you want to call it that) is not only badly flawed, but bordering on ignorance.
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post #113 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited
Every discussion Sony and Toshiba had so far was for Blu Ray - not HD DVD. If there is a Truce, it will be so that Toshiba will get royalty for each Blu Ray sold. Maybe they'll call it "Blu Ray HD DVD". In order for HD DVD to win, it's has to be decisive, as in complete domination over Blu Ray. In order for Blu Ray to win, they just have to have edge in installbase (PS3 anyone?) and sales.

Let's not forget that the war is pretty much over in Japan. Blu Ray is decimating HD DVD, and when the PS3 is out, it's done. The PC industry is heavily towards Blu Ray. It's not about PQ or AQ anymore. Why do you think HD DVD owners are complaining about Best Buy pushing aside HD DVD, and Citcuit City dropping it? When the Blu Ray players become cheaper, it's going to be the Sony PR machine going into effect.
While i agree with the "Unified Format", i dont believe ps3 will be the reason......the ps3 will not be mainstream until xmas 2007....

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post #114 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earz
Lets get the facts straight here.

VHS had the majority studio support including porn......which is now obviously in BD's favor....and definitely not hd dvd.
Panasonic was the big name for VHS.....now they are a main backer of BD.

What cheap VHS players.....the first hi fi players were 12-1600.00 list :confused:

This time around hd dvd is Beta IMO.

Excellent points. It was not the fact that VHS was cheaper than Beta (pricing was similar, btw) but the fact that VHS had far more manufacturers behind it than did Beta. THIS time around, Blu Ray has the support, not HD DVD.

It's really simple when you think about it. A consumer walks into a store and is confronted with almost a dozen players supporting one format and then maybe 1 or 2 supporting the other. When pricing is close enough (and no, this has not happened YET but it will) more of the former format will sell merely because there are just more of them there. Put 10 bottles of Pepsi and 2 bottles of Coke into a 7-11 and which will sell more?

Yes Blu Ray pricing needs to come down, but it has begun already. The Samsung came out at $1000, but look what you can get it for now! If pricing IS close enough, put 10 Samsungs and 2 Toshibas in the same store, and which will sell more?

And NO the Samsungs are NOT soft. Maybe some of the first titles were, but again, as an owner of both, the Samsungs are NOT soft, not at all. They look the same!

So think of this..in 2 years, you walk into a store, see a Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, plus another 3 or 4 brands of Blu Ray alongside a Toshiba and an RCA HD DVD, all equal or very close in price...which will sell more, Blu Ray or HD DVD?
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post #115 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
Excellent points. It was not the fact that VHS was cheaper than Beta (pricing was similar, btw) but the fact that VHS had far more manufacturers behind it than did Beta. THIS time around, Blu Ray has the support, not HD DVD.

It's really simple when you think about it. A consumer walks into a store and is confronted with almost a dozen players supporting one format and then maybe 1 or 2 supporting the other. When pricing is close enough (and no, this has not happened YET but it will) more of the former format will sell merely because there are just more of them there. Put 10 bottles of Pepsi and 2 bottles of Coke into a 7-11 and which will sell more?

Yes Blu Ray pricing needs to come down, but it has begun already. The Samsung came out at $1000, but look what you can get it for now! If pricing IS close enough, put 10 Samsungs and 2 Toshibas in the same store, and which will sell more?

And NO the Samsungs are NOT soft. Maybe some of the first titles were, but again, as an owner of both, the Samsungs are NOT soft, not at all. They look the same!

So think of this..in 2 years, you walk into a store, see a Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, plus another 3 or 4 brands of Blu Ray alongside a Toshiba and an RCA HD DVD, all equal or very close in price...which will sell more, Blu Ray or HD DVD?
The only reason the Samsung is coming down in price is because of market demand. Nobody wants it. It still $1000 in some retail stores. I see Circuit City lowered to $800. I guess that's what happens when you sell one a month (if that). Don't forget the $1500 pioneer. Yeah that will be in every home buy xmas 2007.

You think Toshiba will leave their player at $500 if the BD players start to get around that price? BD has a lot more ground to cover in the pricing department than HD-DVD.

Beta, Mini-Disc, Micro-MV, UMD, SACD, Memory Stick. Sounds like a good track record.
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post #116 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 06:05 PM
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IF Sony believed that the PS3 and the BD program was going well, there is NO way they would have cut the price 20 percent in the Japanese market. It is simply marketing when demand is hign and supply is low you do NOT REDUCE PRICES.

Sony is attempting to avoid a very embarassing situation of poor sales in the Japanese market.

John
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post #117 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 06:35 PM
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Blu-Ray companies got to see the HD-DVD players, their prices and the quality of software prior to releasing their own products. They could have and should have gone head to head with HD-DVD on player price and software quality, but didn't! HD-DVD is like a fire that BR could have easily extinguished, but now its burning both above and under ground and is going to be much harder to put out. Sony must have spent too much time over here reading this forum and decided it was a slam dunk.

If one can assume that BR player prices will be close to HD-DVD player prices in two years or less then it isn't any stretch of the imagination to assume that there will also be several other reputable companies manufacturing HD-DVD players at this time besides Toshiba.

If specifications are to be believed then why didn't $1,000.00 plus 1080p BR players kill a $499.00 1080i HD-DVD player in picture quality?

Cheers,

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post #118 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 07:05 PM
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VHS vs Beta? You have got to be kidding!

How can anyone compare that to whats happening with HD DVD & BR. Whtas next the Model t vs the horse.

You don't have to compare the current siuation to anything. BR is getting it's butt kicked in every catagory, every catagory. Why can't people just except that rather than pull up BS from 30 years ago.

HD is a brand new animal. There has never been anything like it before in the home and there are a whole new set of rules. HD DVD is setting those rules, like it or not.
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post #119 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 07:20 PM
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Damn! The desperation is really begining to set in.

No animals were harmed in the creation of this sentence.
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post #120 of 184 Old 10-24-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajay
Excellent points. It was not the fact that VHS was cheaper than Beta (pricing was similar, btw) but the fact that VHS had far more manufacturers behind it than did Beta. THIS time around, Blu Ray has the support, not HD DVD.

It's really simple when you think about it. A consumer walks into a store and is confronted with almost a dozen players supporting one format and then maybe 1 or 2 supporting the other. When pricing is close enough (and no, this has not happened YET but it will) more of the former format will sell merely because there are just more of them there. Put 10 bottles of Pepsi and 2 bottles of Coke into a 7-11 and which will sell more?

Yes Blu Ray pricing needs to come down, but it has begun already. The Samsung came out at $1000, but look what you can get it for now! If pricing IS close enough, put 10 Samsungs and 2 Toshibas in the same store, and which will sell more?

And NO the Samsungs are NOT soft. Maybe some of the first titles were, but again, as an owner of both, the Samsungs are NOT soft, not at all. They look the same!

So think of this..in 2 years, you walk into a store, see a Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, plus another 3 or 4 brands of Blu Ray alongside a Toshiba and an RCA HD DVD, all equal or very close in price...which will sell more, Blu Ray or HD DVD?
You actually belive this stuff?

Put 10 Samsung and/or 10 Panasonic, players together with 2 HD DVD players in any store and which one is selling more. The HD DVD by a very large margin.

Put 50 BR titles next to 50 HD DVD titles in any store and which is selling better. The HD DVD by a very wide margin.

Are you seeing a trend here yet!!!

Sony blew it, Samsung blew it. You do understand that they actually have to sell some product before they can reduce the price, don't you???? It's called economy of scale. And it only works if you can actually sell the product now, not two years from now. I learned that in the 8th grade, I think.
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