Got My PS3 Today! Review Shortly! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makeusleep
The 360 does not run quiet with the HD-DVD add on. The add on is fairly quietl but the 360 is almost as loud as when playing games. This was unfortunate because I was waiting for the Toshiba A2 but since it is delayed I picked up the add on. The noise level was unacceptable when watching movies so I had to return a great deal from circuit city. The PS3 is said to be very quiet in all the reviews I have read, but I don't know I don't have one yet.
My 360 runs extremely quiet most of the time, even during gameplay. When playing a dvd or HD DVD the 360 is completely silent. So silent that I've accidently left my 360 on if I had paused it and switched to the TV input on my TV and got interested in what was playing (or left the 360 sitting in the Dashboard).

<edit> My 360 is a day 1 launch unit too.

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post #92 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkerg
Notice I said, "more conclusive." I'm just waiting for performance evaluations from more than a handful of owners. I bought this primarily for BD playback, so I'll let those invested in the gaming performance test it first.
Here's a quote from an article on PC World (she's syndicated) that gives a good bit of detail as to how the PS3 functions as a BD player.
Quote:
From the outset, Sony has considered the PlayStation 3 an all-around entertainment console, with tendrils that extend well beyond the realm of game play. Perhaps chief among these is its support for the Blu-ray Disc format, which lets you play high-definition movies. But can the PS3 perform competitively with stand-alone Blu-ray players from consumer electronics makers?

The short answer is yes. In my initial hands-on tests, the PS3's Blu-ray Disc playback was very good--even better than I'd anticipated. (If you're impatient to read my first impressions of the PS3's image quality for Blu-ray Discs, skip ahead to "Sublime Video," past the interface discussion.) However, this is not an unqualified endorsement; in fact, I found several drawbacks that may give audio-visual enthusiasts pause.

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post #93 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 04:53 AM
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I'm confused by her breakdown of the PS3 audio settings. She mentions:

"If you're using your own home theater receiver, though, you'll want to use the Bitstream setting: In this mode, the PS3 passes the audio "bitstream"--be it Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, or DTS-HD--through to your receiver via the HDMI or optical connector; from there, the receiver decodes the audio and outputs it to your speakers."

If you're using an HDMI capable receiver, wouldn't you want to set the Audio output of the PS3 to 'PCM'? Wouldn't the PS3 do all the decoding (or in the case of LPCM tracks, just send straight out) of the audio and send it out as PCM?
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post #94 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrews
My 360 runs extremely quiet most of the time, even during gameplay.
First time i have heard the 360 to be considered "extremely" quiet..

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post #95 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyo10
so the PS3 is not yet a real BR player hein? It'st pitty! i am under way to conclude my order! Could you confirm once for all? my real interest is BR player :confused:
Well it is a real Blu-ray player in that it plays Blu-ray movies, but to my eye it does nothing to improve picture quality over the BD-P1000. If anything, the PQ is ever so slightly worse, with a touch more artifacting.

~Josh

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post #96 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 05:51 AM
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From trolling all over the boards there appears to be only two camps of image quality for BD players:

Camp 1 - Samsung

Camp 2- Panasonic, Pioneer, PS3

In other words the Samsung stands alone as being sub-par. In Camp 2, there really isn't much if any difference at all (and I would not expect much if any during round 1 of comparison). Realize that after the Samsung problems, Sony instituted some QC standards for these units, and it appears as if all three output approximately the same image.

The point of the one article though is that of the three, the PS3 is the only one which is "programmable" and can gain additional features as well as quality improvements through software updates. For myself, I am waiting to see if they are going to implement DLNA support along the lines of the Pioneer Home Media Gallery. If so, this may be an improvement for me, as I am very concerned about the Pioneer delays and the lack of Advanced Audio Support.

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post #97 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT
Where you using Component or HDMI for the PS3?
HDMI.

~Josh

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post #98 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber
You're comparing different movies. If you wish to make cross platform PQ comparisons, you need to watch the same movie on both machines (such as Mission Impossible III).
Rob,

The only movie I have on both formats is Training Day. To my eye, the HD-DVD version looked more crisp, less artifacting, more color "pop". In general I feel HD-DVD has the better PQ, that is what I meant when I said "The Xbox 360 HD-DVD Add-On has a consistently better PQ".

~Josh

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post #99 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatboy77
Rob,

The only movie I have on both formats is Training Day. To my eye, the HD-DVD version looked more crisp, less artifacting, more color "pop". In general I feel HD-DVD has the better PQ, that is what I meant when I said "The Xbox 360 HD-DVD Add-On has a consistently better PQ".

~Josh
I have to say I'm pretty shocked about all this. I was going to buy a PS3 for the Blu-Ray ( I have a 360 with the HD-DVD) but maybe I'll wait....
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post #100 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:10 AM
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Josh,

This is the same even if you are comparing these on the Toshiba HD-A1 ($500) or the Pioneer BD ($1,500).

Interesting note - Wholesale price of the Pioneer BDP-HD1 has been reported by one dealer at about $720 (in other words costs less than this to produce).

Reports are that the PS3 costs about $875 to produce. In other words, costing much much more than the Pioneer to actually make - and realize that it with the incredible volume pricing of making MILLIONS of units!

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post #101 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Zuber
You're comparing different movies. If you wish to make cross platform PQ comparisons, you need to watch the same movie on both machines (such as Mission Impossible III).
MI:III uses different encodings. A Warner title using the same encoding is needed. Without using identical encodings on identical set-ups any comparison is useless. HD DVD software is superior for the most part to BD software at this time, so of course random movies on the HD DVD add-on will look better than a movie on the PS3. It doesn't take someone with a PS3 to make that assumption. ;)

Besides, you seem to have a faulty unit. I'd exchange it ASAP.
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post #102 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatboy77
Rob,

The only movie I have on both formats is Training Day. To my eye, the HD-DVD version looked more crisp, less artifacting, more color "pop". In general I feel HD-DVD has the better PQ, that is what I meant when I said "The Xbox 360 HD-DVD Add-On has a consistently better PQ".

~Josh
Josh, the Blu-ray release of Training Day (using MPEG2) is known to have worse PQ than the HD-DVD release (using VC-1). It seems to me that you are comparing two releases rather than two players. :)

If you can get a Blu-ray release with VC-1 and do the comparison again, that would be really interesting!
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post #103 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:29 AM
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Is VC-1 really better then the Blu-Ray encoding? Is that a fact or fanboy talk?
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post #104 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbiechris
Is VC-1 really better then the Blu-Ray encoding? Is that a fact or fanboy talk?
There is no such thing as a "Blu-ray encoding". Both HD-DVD and Blu-ray players supports VC-1, H.264 and MPEG2. Even though there are not that many Blu-ray movies released using VC-1 yet, there are some. So it should be possible to do a fair comparison between a HD-DVD player and a Blu-ray player.
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post #105 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasK
There is no such thing as a "Blu-ray encoding". Both HD-DVD and Blu-ray players supports VC-1, H.264 and MPEG2. Even though there are not that many Blu-ray movies released using VC-1 yet, there are some. So it should be possible to do a fair comparison between a HD-DVD player and a Blu-ray player.
Thanks that clears it up for me. Why do HD-DVD movies use VC-1 and Blu-Ray movies don't, if VC-1 is the way to go?
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post #106 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyncsu7
I'm confused by her breakdown of the PS3 audio settings. She mentions:

"If you're using your own home theater receiver, though, you'll want to use the Bitstream setting: In this mode, the PS3 passes the audio "bitstream"--be it Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, or DTS-HD--through to your receiver via the HDMI or optical connector; from there, the receiver decodes the audio and outputs it to your speakers."

If you're using an HDMI capable receiver, wouldn't you want to set the Audio output of the PS3 to 'PCM'? Wouldn't the PS3 do all the decoding (or in the case of LPCM tracks, just send straight out) of the audio and send it out as PCM?
The PS3 can do the decoding for Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital 640kbps, DTS 1.5Mbps and DSD (for SACD); obviously it won't need to decode LPCM already on BD movies.

It won't do the decoding for DTS HDMA. That may come with a firmware update.

She is right in one sense that if your "future" receiver can handle all of the codecs I've mentioned above, then the "bitstream" over HDMI option should be enabled instead.


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post #107 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbiechris
I have to say I'm pretty shocked about all this. I was going to buy a PS3 for the Blu-Ray ( I have a 360 with the HD-DVD) but maybe I'll wait....
I was going to eventually get a PS3 to add to my 360. I would use it mainly for gaming, but would pick up a couple of the BD tittles i want.

I wouldnt say this is shocking however. Aside from the hype/hope i think most people felt a console is second to a stand alone for play back. What i find shocking is that the 360 add on produces the best picture out of all the players in the bb77's opinion.

by the way my 360 runs totally silent. at least I cant notice it at modest listening levels. 65- 75 bd
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post #108 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbiechris
Thanks that clears it up for me. Why do HD-DVD movies use VC-1 and Blu-Ray movies don't, if VC-1 is the way to go?
politics.
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post #109 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:11 AM
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when I saw Motor Storm demo today at BB, I thought the graphics were incredibly sharp and all but it had major fps issues.
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post #110 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:23 AM
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All of the talk about apples to apples comparisons gets me thinking. If the BD release is a poor transfer or uses a poor source and the resulting PQ is worse than what HD-DVD is using, it is still significant regardless of whether it is truly apples to apples.

It would be of little comfort to know that if only the release on BD had been done with VC-1 and was a better transfer like the HD-DVD release the PQ might be better. If the BD players only get crappy software support it won't matter whether they are potentially capable of a better image.
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post #111 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:26 AM
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This whole Blu-Ray Vs. HD-DVD is fascinating to me. I really didn't think HD-DVD had a chance in hell due to all the support Blu-Ray has, but HD-DVD is still moving along and still selling nicely. Do you guys think there will be a clear winner or are we just going to have two formats?
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post #112 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:32 AM
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This whole Blu-Ray Vs. HD-DVD is fascinating to me. I really didn't think HD-DVD had a chance in hell due to all the support Blu-Ray has, but HD-DVD is still moving along and still selling nicely. Do you guys think there will be a clear winner or are we just going to have two formats?
The retailers will not support 2 competing formats. One will die, and that will almost definately be HD-DVD. No matter how much the enthusiast market likes it, this is not laser disc and looking at how many retailers are pimping BR exclusively, it's just a matter of time.
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post #113 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo
The retailers will not support 2 competing formats. One will die, and that will almost definately be HD-DVD. No matter how much the enthusiast market likes it, this is not laser disc and looking at how many retailers are pimping BR exclusively, it's just a matter of time.
hmmm..... yet retailers happily support PS2, xbox, PS3, gamecube, gameboy, 360 and PS3 now too. :rolleyes:

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post #114 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WriteSimple
She is right in one sense that if your "future" receiver can handle all of the codecs I've mentioned above, then the "bitstream" over HDMI option should be enabled instead.


fuad
Right... I understand that. But, today (or the day I finally get my PS3), if I hook up a PS3 to my HDMI 1.2a receiver (Yamaha RX-V2700), I should set the Audio output of the PS3 to 'PCM' if I want to hear the LPCM tracks from Blu-ray movies and PS3 games, right?

My original post was more of an 'open for discussion/ question' since I wasn't 100% sure what I was talking about.
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post #115 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:42 AM
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I think the consumer wins if HD-DVD wins, but Sony is not interested in the consumer.

BD has higher data capacity, but as both formats support pretty much the same compression techniques it's really only a question of can HD-DVD hold enough data. The answer to this question is yes.

BD requires a completely different kind of laser, a completely different manufacturing process for discs, players to have more complex components to be backward compatible with DVD, etc. HD-DVD is really just an improvement on already ubiquitous DVD technology. There is a good reason HD-DVD players are $500 and BD players are $1000+. HD-DVD's only real sin other than holding slightly less, but still enough, data is that it's major sponsor, Toshiba, is not a major player in the film industry.

I really hope HD-DVD wins out in the end, but from my "consumer perspective" BD is getting all the play in the B&M.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking. Back to the PS3 discussion. Someone was shot over these things already, so let's see some damn pics already!
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post #116 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo
The retailers will not support 2 competing formats. One will die, and that will almost definately be HD-DVD. No matter how much the enthusiast market likes it, this is not laser disc and looking at how many retailers are pimping BR exclusively, it's just a matter of time.
no offense but this is completely wrong.

Here is what I see at my local BB

SACD and DVD A
Mac and PC
PS and Xbox
HD DVD and BD
iPod and tons of mp3 players

Retail space can be bought.
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post #117 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver
no offense but this is completely wrong.

Here is what I see at my local BB

SACD and DVD A
Mac and PC
PS and Xbox
HD DVD and BD
iPod and tons of mp3 players

Retail space can be bought.
the only example in the list that is a format is the defunct SACD / DVD A;
the consumer can deal with choices of players and features, etc; but disk and data formats are expected to be a non-issue to the consumer; either one will win or dual format players will render it a non-issue or both will fail, IMHO...

retail space can be bought, but the consumer won't be buying...

ken
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post #118 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 08:13 AM
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...speaking of, for me one of the pleasantly shocking attributes of the PS3 was its ability to play SACDs. Anybody know a) if it's actually doing DSD decoding properly, b) whether it's "only" HDMI out for these m/c, hi-rez audio formats, or if there's some crazy plan to do 6ch RCA analogue audio output...

I can't imagine they'd do the latter, but weirder things have happened.

Sorry to hear about the lockups, I'm actually rooting for Sony here for no particularly good reason (well, I've got a friend who works for Playstation, so that's a good enough reason...) As for the tales of 5 days on without a crash, I take it that individual wasn't watching TN for 5 days (STYX COVER BAND AND NACHO FOUNTAINS, BABY! (sorry, couldn't resist)) Something tells me that BD playback will be, ironically, one of the more taxing tasks for this beast, it sure seems to be on the 360 side.

Finally, in the Tosh demos a month or so ago they actually had the Sammy's hooked up with Training Day and A1s with the same title to show the difference between VC1 and Mpeg (ie., that day they were suggesting that it was the same contrast to be made made between BD and HD) - that was the day that Click had launched, and there were a few VC1 BD titles already out. The presentation did make claims that a) 50gb was in theory only, and b) VC1 was a preferred format, and BD was eschewing it in favour of Mpeg2 (hence the need for larger discs).

Anyhoo, I wish those on this side of the forum well - this HD/BD thing is far from painless, but once you get to see some steller titles in HD it's hard to go back. Here's hoping for your sakes a positive onslaught of movies that you'd actually want to watch... :)

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post #119 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver
no offense but this is completely wrong.

Here is what I see at my local BB

SACD and DVD A
Mac and PC
PS and Xbox
HD DVD and BD
iPod and tons of mp3 players

Retail space can be bought.

Not to mention:

DLP and LCD Projection
LCD and Plasma
Toshiba and Sony

Retailers LOVE giving customers selection. It allows them top use the "alternate choice close"; e.g "which one would you like" instead of "do you want one"

I wonder how many years in CE retail Wickwoo has...

Choice is king!!
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post #120 of 185 Old 11-17-2006, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosawx
Not to mention:

DLP and LCD Projection
LCD and Plasma
Toshiba and Sony

Retailers LOVE giving customers selection. It allows them top use the "alternate choice close"; e.g "which one would you like" instead of "do you want one"

I wonder how many years in CE retail Wickwoo has...

Choice is king!!
You mean DLP, LCD, LCoS (D-ILA and SXRD) and CRT rear projection? :)

And, coming in 3008 (sarcasm, not typo)... LCD, Plasma, SED and OLED! ;)
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