Panasonic DMP-BD10, 10A Setup/Tweaks/Settings Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

The crossover is only in relation to setup of speakers using the BD10a and outputting through analog connections. Using HDMI, you'd be setting up speakers using your AVR.

Dana

I am assuming the bass management in the BD10A player can be either disabled, or all speakers can be set to LARGE if I want to use the analogs all at full plus a sub for LFE only?

Also, does the speaker setup allow a setting of NONE for the rear surrounds so that any source material mixed at 6.1 or 7.1 would allow the rear surround content combined with the side surrounds for use with a 5.1 setup?

Thanks for the help. I've got the panny on order and it will be a long wait!
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post #1172 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dllewel View Post

I am assuming the bass management in the BD10A player can be either disabled, or all speakers can be set to LARGE if I want to use the analogs all at full plus a sub for LFE only?

Also, does the speaker setup allow a setting of NONE for the rear surrounds so that any source material mixed at 6.1 or 7.1 would allow the rear surround content combined with the side surrounds for use with a 5.1 setup?

Thanks for the help. I've got the panny on order and it will be a long wait!

Check out the Panny web site and download the BD10AK manual. There's good info on speaker setup. It's something to do while waiting for your player to ship.
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post #1173 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss View Post

Check out the Panny web site and download the BD10AK manual. There's good info on speaker setup. It's something to do while waiting for your player to ship.

It's here http://service.us.panasonic.com/Oper...model=DMPBD10A

Dana

"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain
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post #1174 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 06:50 PM
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I looked for a manual last week but didn't find it. Thank you both of you!
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post #1175 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

The crossover is only in relation to setup of speakers using the BD10a and outputting through analog connections. Using HDMI, you'd be setting up speakers using your AVR.

Dana

Does anybody know where in the manual I could find where it says the crossover is at 100Hz. I've read the manual front-to-back several times and just could not find it. I'm using the analog outs from the BD10A to my Onkyo, and my Onkyo is set at 80Hz crossover - do I need to change that to 100Hz as well.
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post #1176 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 07:34 PM
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bigthys,
Just set your speakers to Large in the 10a. That will send the full signal to your receiver. Then your receiver will do the cross-over at 80 or whatever you set.
Dom
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post #1177 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 07:35 PM
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I'm sure its not in the manual, dude, since they probably assume most folks are using their AVR for audio, and THAT controlls the crossover freq, NOT the Panny, just like drbonbi said...
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post #1178 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DomNY View Post

bigthys,
Just set your speakers to Large in the 10a. That will send the full signal to your receiver. Then your receiver will do the cross-over at 80 or whatever you set.
Dom


Where can set your speakers to large of small in the panny menu? I tried to do that but somehow only db level that goes -0 is what you can move.

Peter

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post #1179 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutlian View Post

Where can set your speakers to large of small in the panny menu? I tried to do that but somehow only db level that goes -0 is what you can move.

Peter

Move the cursor further and you can then select the speaker. The same happened to me. The interface is a bit awkward. The speaker pic will change size for large & small.
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post #1180 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutlian View Post

Where can set your speakers to large of small in the panny menu? I tried to do that but somehow only db level that goes -0 is what you can move.

Peter

Highlight the speaker press enter then use the up/down arrow.
you will notice the speaker change in size.
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post #1181 of 4040 Old 07-18-2007, 09:11 PM
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thanks y'all!
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post #1182 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 02:24 AM
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DHL is supposed to deliver the BD10A from 6AVE Electronics today. I have read this entire thread. I have an Onkyo TX-SR504 in the bedroom and I plan to feed it the Multi-channel analog outputs and the SPDIF co-ax. The only drawback I foresee is the forced 100 Hz x-over point when utilizing the Bass management in the panny as the Onkyo Rcvr won't perform any bass management on the analog inputs. I have a very small Polk sub/satellite system in there and the 100hz point is a little low for those... LOL! I plan to feed the SPDIF output also, as my understanding is that the panny will not decode standard DD/DTS/ES/EX from Standard DVD's... correct? Eagerly waiting to see how it goes... Sure would like to be able to play my EE LOTR's set!
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post #1183 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 02:56 AM
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The speaker settings in the Panny is necessary and relative only to the use of multichannel analogs.

The distance and speaker level settings in the a/v receiver remain applicable and the speaker distance corrections and speaker levels in the player are corrective settings from those in the receiver. Let me give you an example:

My HD-A1, like all Toshiba DVD's (at least of the 1st generation) have a subwoofer output level of -10 dB compared to other speakers. So my correction is all speakers at -10 dB and the subwoofer remains at 0 dB. The actual speaker calibration (the volume output adjustments for all speakers) was set with an AVIA calibration DVD using the digital connection. So that when I toggle to 6 Channel analogs the player settings for speaker distance and levels are a simple correction of the base settings of the receiver.

When I receive my Panny DMP-BD10A, I will connect the multichannel analog cables to my Zektor HDS4.1 analog switch box and hear the difference between the HD-A1 and correct levels accordingly to match the audio output paying particular attention the the subwoofer output. As for speaker size, I will set them to SMALL so that below 100 Hz, the frequencies are sent to the subwoofer. However, we know that when one of the new codecs is selected (DD TrueHD or DTS-HD), the Panny will correct the speaker size to LARGE in spite of the setting done. This will provide low frequencies to both the Front speakers and the subwoofer. But under the playback of a SD DVD, DD and DTS surround will use the SMALL setting.

Using multichannel analogs, no other processing is done by the receiver (for instance no DSPs, no ProLogic, etc). Decoding is done by the player and the receiver passes through the audio to the speaker respecting speaker distances and base levels of the receiver but adjusted with those corrective settings in the player. Crossover in the receiver is not applicable. The Crossover of the player takes over and, in the case of the Panny, the Crossover is a fixed one and set at 100 Hz.

Anyone wishing to increase the subwoofer level without adjusting the GAIN setting at the subwoofer, must reduce the level of all speakers and leave the setting of 0 dB for the subwoofer (such as I did for the Toshiba).
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post #1184 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GutterPoet View Post

... also, as my understanding is that the panny will not decode standard DD/DTS/ES/EX from Standard DVD's... correct? Eagerly waiting to see how it goes... Sure would like to be able to play my EE LOTR's set!

Read page 29 of the owners manual. DD and DTS for SD DVDs are decoded by the player.
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post #1185 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthys View Post

Does anybody know where in the manual I could find where it says the crossover is at 100Hz. I've read the manual front-to-back several times and just could not find it. I'm using the analog outs from the BD10A to my Onkyo, and my Onkyo is set at 80Hz crossover - do I need to change that to 100Hz as well.

It's somewhat obscure (as are many other things in the BD10 Manual). It's on page 23>Speaker Presence and Size>Last Sentence.

Quote:


For example, if the subwoofer is set to No, the front speakers will
automatically be set to Large. (In this case, we recommend
connecting a speaker that can reproduce bass below 100 Hz.)

Dana

"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain
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post #1186 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

Read page 29 of the owners manual. DD and DTS for SD DVDs are decoded by the player.

I have downloaded a manual, but I have not yet read it... still, in the one I have, page 29 is a glossary.
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post #1187 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

The speaker settings in the Panny is necessary and relative only to the use of multichannel analogs.

The distance and speaker level settings in the a/v receiver remain applicable and the speaker distance corrections and speaker levels in the player are corrective settings from those in the receiver. Let me give you an example:

My HD-A1, like all Toshiba DVD's (at least of the 1st generation) have a subwoofer output level of -10 dB compared to other speakers. So my correction is all speakers at -10 dB and the subwoofer remains at 0 dB. The actual speaker calibration (the volume output adjustments for all speakers) was set with an AVIA calibration DVD using the digital connection. So that when I toggle to 6 Channel analogs the player settings for speaker distance and levels are a simple correction of the base settings of the receiver.

When I receive my Panny DMP-BD10A, I will connect the multichannel analog cables to my Zektor HDS4.1 analog switch box and hear the difference between the HD-A1 and correct levels accordingly to match the audio output paying particular attention the the subwoofer output. As for speaker size, I will set them to SMALL so that below 100 Hz, the frequencies are sent to the subwoofer. However, we know that when one of the new codecs is selected (DD TrueHD or DTS-HD), the Panny will correct the speaker size to LARGE in spite of the setting done. This will provide low frequencies to both the Front speakers and the subwoofer. But under the playback of a SD DVD, DD and DTS surround will use the SMALL setting.

Using multichannel analogs, no other processing is done by the receiver (for instance no DSPs, no ProLogic, etc). Decoding is done by the player and the receiver passes through the audio to the speaker respecting speaker distances and base levels of the receiver but adjusted with those corrective settings in the player. Crossover in the receiver is not applicable. The Crossover of the player takes over and, in the case of the Panny, the Crossover is a fixed one and set at 100 Hz.

Anyone wishing to increase the subwoofer level without adjusting the GAIN setting at the subwoofer, must reduce the level of all speakers and leave the setting of 0 dB for the subwoofer (such as I did for the Toshiba).

Was this meant to address my situation? If so, my receiver performs no processing on the analog inputs and is therefore totally dependent on the panny for bass management. It can decrease the sensitivity of the SW input... Lot 'o good that's gone be... LOL!
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post #1188 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GutterPoet View Post

Was this meant to address my situation? If so, my receiver performs no processing on the analog inputs and is therefore totally dependent on the panny for bass management. It can decrease the sensitivity of the SW input... Lot 'o good that's gone be... LOL!

Multichannel analogs provide sound in a more pure rendition. If booming sound is more important, stick with digital with sound processed by the receiver.

If both pure rendition and good bass is the object, then you can tweak your system:

Yes bass management under multichannel analogs relies entirely on the player.

The number 1 requirement is to answer yes to the presence of a subwoofer.

Number 2 is the Crossover and you have no control over that since the player has a fixed Crossover at 100 Hz.

Number 3 is the speaker size whereas SMALL causes all frequencies at or below 100 Hz to be sent to the sub. BUT, in the case of DD TrueHD and DTS-HD, the player will act as if the size is LARGE (you have no control over this) and will send all frequencies to the speakers together with frequencies below 100 Hz to the sub.

Now, beyond this you can tweak the player settings in such a way as to increase the volume of bass coming out of the sub. Assuming you leave the sub setting in the player at its maximum 0 dB, you can reduce all other speakers (same level for all) from -1 dB to -6 dB. Test the two extremes and hear the difference from the sub.

Finally, if the above tweaking does not accomplish the amount of bass you wish to have, in addition you can increase GAIN setting at the sub itself.
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post #1189 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

Multichannel analogs provide sound in a more pure rendition. If booming sound is more important, stick with digital with sound processed by the receiver.

If both pure rendition and good bass is the object, then you can tweak your system:

Yes bass management under multichannel analogs relies entirely on the player.

The number 1 requirement is to answer yes to the presence of a subwoofer.

Number 2 is the Crossover and you have no control over that since the player has a fixed Crossover at 100 Hz.

Number 3 is the speaker size whereas SMALL causes all frequencies at or below 100 Hz to be sent to the sub. BUT, in the case of DD TrueHD and DTS-HD, the player will act as if the size is LARGE (you have no control over this) and will send all frequencies to the speakers together with frequencies below 100 Hz to the sub.

Now, beyond this you can tweak the player settings in such a way as to increase the volume of bass coming out of the sub. Assuming you leave the sub setting in the player at its maximum 0 dB, you can reduce all other speakers (same level for all) from -1 dB to -6 dB. Test the two extremes and hear the difference from the sub.

Finally, if the above tweaking does not accomplish the amount of bass you wish to have, in addition you can increase GAIN setting at the sub itself.

I have a THx Onkyo (forget what the model number is) and in reading the AVR's manual last night it tells me that it still controls the size of all the speakers no matter what the input is from (ie., if the surround speakers are set to large on the Panny but they are set to small on the Onkyo, the Onkyo will automatically send frequencies below the set crossover level, in my case 80Hz, to the subwoofer). So I still somewhat have control over the crossover. The only part that the Onkyo has no control over on Multichannel inputs are the speaker levels, and has to be managed through the Panny and/or at the Sub itself.
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post #1190 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 09:37 AM
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I also have the onkyo (thx) and set the crossover with 80hz, And I am using the panny mainly with analog connection and if the panny is fixed with 100hz via analog should I change the crossover to onkyo to 100hz also?

what is the default settings of the panny bd10a with the speakers large or small.
I only have 5.1 satellite speakers (polk audio rm6700) is'nt I should that the small since they are small speakers? My understanding from mcfabien post that the panny will do the
auto switching from small to large if I play the 5.1 analog and the crossover will be 100hz,
is that right?

Note: Tarantado (ka rin ), craigf thanks for pointing where to find the speaker setting.

Peter
Enjoy HD no matter what......
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post #1191 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutlian View Post

I also have the onkyo (thx) and set the crossover with 80hz, And I am using the panny mainly with analog connection and if the panny is fixed with 100hz via analog should I change the crossover to onkyo to 100hz also?

what is the default settings of the panny bd10a with the speakers large or small.
I only have 5.1 satellite speakers (polk audio rm6700) is'nt I should that the small since they are small speakers? My understanding from mcfabien post that the panny will do the
auto switching from small to large if I play the 5.1 analog and the crossover will be 100hz,
is that right?

Note: Tarantado (ka rin ), craigf thanks for pointing where to find the speaker setting.


The Panny will switch from SMALL to LARGE only when audio DD TrueHD or DTS-HD is selected for playback. You can read the manual... that is what is said. The Panny Crossover is fixed at 100 Hz.
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post #1192 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rutlian View Post

I also have the onkyo (thx) and set the crossover with 80hz, And I am using the panny mainly with analog connection and if the panny is fixed with 100hz via analog should I change the crossover to onkyo to 100hz also?

what is the default settings of the panny bd10a with the speakers large or small.
I only have 5.1 satellite speakers (polk audio rm6700) is'nt I should that the small since they are small speakers? My understanding from mcfabien post that the panny will do the
auto switching from small to large if I play the 5.1 analog and the crossover will be 100hz,
is that right?

Note: Tarantado (ka rin ), craigf thanks for pointing where to find the speaker setting.

According to Onkyo's manual the AVR still has control over the crossover, so even if the Panny is passing the analog signals for large speakers (and you have satellite speakers) the Onkyo will send frequencies 80Hz and below to your sub. What I'm not sure about is how the Onkyo's handling the subwoofer signal from the Panny - if it's filtering it so that the sub gets 80Hz and below and anything above gets sent back to the main speakers.
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post #1193 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

The Panny will switch from SMALL to LARGE only when audio DD TrueHD or DTS-HD is selected for playback. You can read the manual... that is what is said. The Panny Crossover is fixed at 100 Hz.


Thanks so I keep my onkyo into small speakers set up and leave it to 80hz since
the panny will auto switch if I play dts hd or truehd.

I watch the the transporter last night and did not touch anything about speaker config. I left my onkyo with small speakers and in 80hz crossover and I can tell
that the base is solid and the distribution from each front speakers is awesome, even in sorrounds channel it is very detailed, I know that the transporter is DTS HD MA, And I know that the sounds is great and I am not telling that I am getting MA but the sounds is much improvement. and this is coming from my 5.1 multichannel analog, because of that sounds experienced I will buy more of the fox movies with DTS HD MA sounds option.

Peter
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post #1194 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien View Post



Now, beyond this you can tweak the player settings in such a way as to increase the volume of bass coming out of the sub. Assuming you leave the sub setting in the player at its maximum 0 dB, you can reduce all other speakers (same level for all) from -1 dB to -6 dB. Test the two extremes and hear the difference from the sub.

Finally, if the above tweaking does not accomplish the amount of bass you wish to have, in addition you can increase GAIN setting at the sub itself.

I think the best setting for my receiver (BK307) will be -6 front/center and -9 surround (my normal setting for SD and Sat is -3 on the surrounds)

At first I was lazy and just cranked up the sub amp - big mistake. First time I switched back to Sat, it was boom city

The `Like Large' setting (WTF?) in TrueHD and DTS HD is confusing, but my fronts and surrounds are close to full range (ACI Panorama/Sapphire) and drop off at 35-40, so I can hear the difference compared to basic PCM 5.1

Wish I had global levels, but it's no big deal.
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post #1195 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

I think the best setting for my receiver (BK307) will be -6 front/center and -9 surround (my normal setting for SD and Sat is -3 on the surrounds)

At first I was lazy and just cranked up the sub amp - big mistake. First time I switched back to Sat, it was boom city

The `Like Large' setting (WTF?) in TrueHD and DTS HD is confusing, but my fronts and surrounds are close to full range (ACI Panorama/Sapphire) and drop off at 35-40, so I can hear the difference compared to basic PCM 5.1

Wish I had global levels, but it's no big deal.

The level settings in your receiver should remain those you like for digital connection. They are normally determined by a SPL meter at your sitting position. If you have no meter, then do the best you can with your ears. Your final setting will apply also when using multichannel analogs. And you should enter distance corrections for speaker delays.

The level settings in the player, discussed in my earlier post, would be to reduce the speakers by the same level reduction (from -1 dB to -6 dB) to the benefit of the sub performance (which should remain at 0 dB). I wish I had my Panny to be precise but It will be shipped only in August.

Set your speakers to SMALL and let the Panny do its thing with size when DD TrueHD or DTS-HD is selected.
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post #1196 of 4040 Old 07-19-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

The level settings in your receiver should remain those you like for digital connection. They are normally determined by a SPL meter at your sitting position. If you have no meter, then do the best you can with your ears. Your final setting will apply also when using multichannel analogs. And you should enter distance corrections for speaker delays.

The level settings in the player, discussed in my earlier post, would be to reduce the speakers by the same level reduction (from -1 dB to -6 dB) to the benefit of the sub performance (which should remain at 0 dB). I wish I had my Panny to be precise but It will be shipped only in August.

Set your speakers to SMALL and let the Panny do its thing with size when DD TrueHD or DTS-HD is selected.

Did this days ago, but the rears play a little hot. Meter shows only a .5db difference, but again they sound like I need to back them off a little more. Of course, the new HD top I'm getting could have something to do with my perception. I have the same ScanSpeak tweeter all around, so they're always easy to balance.

Digital is on par with my previous player, but PCM balance is different in my room with my equipment. I didn't mean to suggest others might require the same settings. Just an observation. I love what I hear so far. I hear deeper into foley and score than ever before. Fun Stuff
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post #1197 of 4040 Old 07-20-2007, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

Did this days ago, but the rears play a little hot. Meter shows only a .5db difference, but again they sound like I need to back them off a little more. Of course, the new HD top I'm getting could have something to do with my perception. I have the same ScanSpeak tweeter all around, so they're always easy to balance.

Digital is on par with my previous player, but PCM balance is different in my room with my equipment. I didn't mean to suggest others might require the same settings. Just an observation. I love what I hear so far. I hear deeper into foley and score than ever before. Fun Stuff

Listening to CD's with my HD-A1, using multichannel analogs, was a real discovery. Try a CD with the Panny and let us know how different it is compared to digital connection.
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post #1198 of 4040 Old 07-20-2007, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

Listening to CD's with my HD-A1, using multichannel analogs, was a real discovery. Try a CD with the Panny and let us know how different it is compared to digital connection.


DVDaudio and CD are playable but not in line with previous multi players in my system. The best DVDaudio transport here was an Onkyo SP1000, followed closely by the great Pany RP91 from years ago. A real CD transport would be nice. I can't reference any point of quality until I own one myself.

I think many will be pleased with performance on these formats, but the BD10's strong point is BD audio/video.

Testing some more Standard DVDs. I'm pleased with the results. I see no need to hang on to my Pioneer 79.
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post #1199 of 4040 Old 07-20-2007, 09:28 AM
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I tried DVD AUDIO (Blue man' group) Tried DTS my receiver reads it as DTS 96/24 the sound is awesome, then I change the menu to play the PCM it sounds great also, I will try CD tonight.

Peter
Enjoy HD no matter what......
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post #1200 of 4040 Old 07-20-2007, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by thedeskE View Post

The best DVDaudio transport here was an Onkyo SP1000, followed closely by the great Pany RP91 from years ago.

My BD10 replaced a Panny RP91 which I used for years without so much as a hiccup and which played my small DVD-A collection with a richness and clarity of sound that I thought could not be surpassed. I do recall that my first impression of DVD-A on the BD10 was that it was somehow different and better than on the RP-91, but was really unable to define the improvement in any real world terms. It would be interesting to A/B the two but I am not willing to go to the trouble and expense required to do so and in the end, what would be the point.
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