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post #1 of 41 Old 01-01-2007, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you all think about Toshiba stuffing a Silicon Optix Reon Chip into their new XA2 player? The SO Realta (Reon's big brother) does a phenomenal job of upscaling, deinterlacing, and noise reduction on 480i signals -- regular DVD's. I wonder if that will be a big selling point as none of the BR players have external videoprocessor-level chips in them such as the Gennum VXP or the SO Realta/Reon. This could give the XA2 image quality on convention DVD's approaching the Denon player which also contains this chip or negate the use of any external video processor.
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post #2 of 41 Old 01-01-2007, 01:23 PM
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The Reon can be made so that it actually functions as well as a programmable SO Realta at a fraction of the cost using fixed HD DVD capable resolutions.

If consumers are educated , it could be huge for HD DVD. Its a real reason to upgrade to the higher priced HD XA2 for enthusiasts. But at this stage, most consumers aren't considering $999 purchases and the upconverting chip in a player is a non-issue to J6P.

Blu-ray players may have this option in their next generation, and the HD XA2 is at the $999 price point.

Its still an open issue on how much better the SD DVD will be. It was superb on the HD XA1 and HD A1 and reports are the HD A2 is just as good.

With the PS3 not having SD upconversion, or only a software one (but driven by the Cell ) it could be a serious advantage to HD DVD. The Pioneer and Sony standalone players upconversion capabilities are likely also very good.

More news will probably come out at CES next week.

Remember Blu-ray has the same possibility of including this in a future Blu-ray player, so any HD DVD advantage may be limited to the first half of the year.

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post #3 of 41 Old 01-01-2007, 02:07 PM
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Silicon Optix Reon Chip...I'm impressed...to bad I already bought the A2.

Joe V.
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-01-2007, 02:12 PM
 
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^ Joe, don't you have a second HDTV to more your A2 so you can enjoy the XA2 on your main HDTV?

-Robert
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post #5 of 41 Old 01-01-2007, 03:02 PM
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I think anything that enhances the performance of the "top end" players (i.e. the $1,000 price point) for either format is a good thing right now.
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-13-2007, 01:31 PM
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I found out these Reon chips are about $15 in quantity when I was at the Silicon Optics private suite at CES. The Realta is about $30. Not a lot of extra cost on the bill of materials for one of these players.
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post #7 of 41 Old 01-16-2007, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eonibm View Post

I found out these Reon chips are about $15 in quantity when I was at the Silicon Optics private suite at CES. The Realta is about $30. Not a lot of extra cost on the bill of materials for one of these players.

I am irritated. i didn't get my invite to SO in time although I wasa at CES. Where were they loxated this year at what off site hotel?

What did they display? You can PM me with the info.

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post #8 of 41 Old 01-16-2007, 08:35 AM
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I did some tests on the Reon awhile back. It is essentially the same as the Gennum VXP in performance with de-interlacing. It loses some of the advanced cadence detection that the Realta has. But it does the noise reduction that the Realta does, which is better than the VXP.

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post #9 of 41 Old 01-16-2007, 11:11 AM
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will the Reon do the 1080p24 to 1080p60 conversion as well and do it properly?
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-16-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I am irritated. i didn't get my invite to SO in time although I wasa at CES. Where were they loxated this year at what off site hotel?

What did they display? You can PM me with the info.

SO had a booth at CES. All that was in the booth was a sign saying visit us at the High Roller Suite at Wynn's. All you had to do was visit the booth, the go to the suite.
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post #11 of 41 Old 01-16-2007, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memnoch View Post

will the Reon do the 1080p24 to 1080p60 conversion as well and do it properly?

All players do this properly. What most of the BD players won't do is 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing with 2-2 based material. The Reon will do this.

This is not an issue with the PS3, Sony or Pioneer players as they all use a direct 1080p stream. The Samsung and Panasonic do 1080p through a video processing chip (as does the new XA2 HD DVD player).

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post #12 of 41 Old 01-16-2007, 01:06 PM
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I hadnt caught that the PS3, Sony and Pioneer use the direct 1080p stream... So once a 1080p 24 firmware update comes out then we are indeed seeing the bits exactly passed through as encoded on the discs?
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 07:55 AM
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Kris,

Do you know what processor the Pioneer and Sony players use? I am glad to hear you say that the Sony displays a true 1080p stream.
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post #14 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Kris,

Do you know what processor the Pioneer and Sony players use? .....

I second that question.

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post #15 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 12:01 PM
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They don't, that is the point. They are doing 1080p right from the decoder, no video processor in between.

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post #16 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 12:14 PM
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Kris,

When and what are the next Blu-ray player reviews coming on Secrets?

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post #17 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 12:19 PM
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Maybe this is the correct question, What chip does the Pioneer and Sony use for upconversion of SD DVD's?
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post #18 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Maybe this is the correct question, What chip does the Pioneer and Sony use for upconversion of SD DVD's?

I would also like to know what chip is used for deinterlacing SD DVDs. The HD1 at 480p produces excellant PQ.
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post #19 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

They don't, that is the point. They are doing 1080p right from the decoder, no video processor in between.

Thanks Kris for the reply. I now see that you had made that answer obvious a post or two above. Sorry about that.

I also got the manufacturers confused as I somehow saw Panasonic instead of Pioneer. So I thought that I was asking about the processor in the Panasonic instead.

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post #20 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

What chip does the Pioneer and Sony use for upconversion of SD DVD's?

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post #21 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

All players do this properly. What most of the BD players won't do is 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing with 2-2 based material. The Reon will do this.

This is not an issue with the PS3, Sony or Pioneer players as they all use a direct 1080p stream. The Samsung and Panasonic do 1080p through a video processing chip (as does the new XA2 HD DVD player).

How widespread is 1080/30p material - which is what I assume the source would be for 2-2 based material?

Also - how do the various players perform de-interlacing native 480/60i and scaling or 1080/60i to 1080/60p - and how good is their fast cadence detection on DVDs that contain shows with a mix of film and video originated material? (Do they stick in film mode for a frame or two of video - or are they good enough to do an instant, field/frame accurate, switch between de-interlace modes?)

Interested to know - as I watch a fair amount of 576/50i native video originated stuff on DVD - including some shows shot with a mix of film and video, often scene by scene (BBC standard drama technique in the 70s and 80s - video studio, film location)
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post #22 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

All players do this properly. What most of the BD players won't do is 1080i to 1080p de-interlacing with 2-2 based material. The Reon will do this.

This is not an issue with the PS3, Sony or Pioneer players as they all use a direct 1080p stream. The Samsung and Panasonic do 1080p through a video processing chip (as does the new XA2 HD DVD player).

At CES, Samsung announced that their new BD1200 Blu-Ray DVD player will use the Silicon Optix Reon VX chip. I think this player is supposed to ship in the next few weeks.
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post #23 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 10:23 PM
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Last time I checked this was the Blu-Ray forum? I post in each as well as I own both, but this thread seems a tad mis-placed again since most of the talk is on the Toshiba unit. I don't doubt you see some other players on this side of the Blu-Ray Fence that is that uses this chip also, as oyfoo has stated. Denon regular higher end players are using this chip and man does it look good, how about the LG, it would be worth it if it used this chipset....

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9678398-1.html
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post #24 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 10:52 PM
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Forget Silicon Optix video processors in players or outboard components; we need more displays with this technology. I want my players to simply transport what's on the disc and let the display properly handle everything related to video.
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post #25 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Forget Silicon Optix video processors in players or outboard components; we need more displays with this technology. I want my players to simply transport what's on the disc and let the display properly handle everything related to video.

As the cost of displays goes down so does the intelligence in them; therefore players are going to be the only solution for perfecting the image. It's the trend of the industry and it's not changing anytime soon.

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post #26 of 41 Old 01-17-2007, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

As the cost of displays goes down so does the intelligence in them; therefore players are going to be the only solution for perfecting the image. It's the trend of the industry and it's not changing anytime soon.

...Angelo

I wouldn't say players are going to be the only solution for "perfecting the image." We already have two displays with Silicon Optix video processors. There's a Mitsubishi projector with a Reon VX, and an affordable flat panel LCD with a Realta. Who knows, more may be coming.

EDIT: I just read that Proview is coming out with LCDs that have Reon VX processors in them.
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post #27 of 41 Old 01-18-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Forget Silicon Optix video processors in players or outboard components; we need more displays with this technology. I want my players to simply transport what's on the disc and let the display properly handle everything related to video.

Aren't there arguments that the motion vector information used in the compression systems "on disc" could be used to feed into the video processing chips. This requires the MPEG2/4 decoders and the video processors to have a more comprehensive connection than just decoded video. That would be one argument for integrating with the player?

Given that MPEG4 H264 compression allows different blocks to use different forms of compression (MBAFF extensions) flipping between progressive and interlaced modes on a block-by-block basis on 50i/60i material for example then there is an argument for feeding this information forward to more involved processing?
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post #28 of 41 Old 01-18-2007, 05:25 PM
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I'll let my Mitsu 5000's built in Reon-VX do that job. So far superlative, but im just an amateur.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations....shi_HC5000.pdf
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post #29 of 41 Old 01-19-2007, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post

Last time I checked this was the Blu-Ray forum? ...

A good read and no flaming in this forum (even with HD-DVD info)!!! Thanks guys.

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post #30 of 41 Old 01-20-2007, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oyfoo View Post

At CES, Samsung announced that their new BD1200 Blu-Ray DVD player will use the Silicon Optix Reon VX chip. I think this player is supposed to ship in the next few weeks.

Personally I'm anxiously waiting for this player.
I have a HD-A2 at home and already have some BD titles but no player. I was going to buy a clearance(but new) BD-P1000 but am seriously trying to wait for the new samsung and the Reon Chip has a lot to do with that decision.

PS3 & A2 = Format Neutral
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