i dont get it...why does ps3 owner wants upconvert function??? - AVS Forum
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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u have a 1080p tv and a ps3 blu-ray player that can play blu-ray movie in 1080p.

now my question is why the hell u want to play a dvd movie that was design for 480p and upconvert it to a 1080p? wouldn't the dvd player that u have right now be sufficient enough? y the hell u want to stretch a dvd 480p movie into a 1080p? does it really make that much of a difference?

let me put it this way...let say u r eating sh*t...and u have an ingredient to make the sh*t taste and smell a little bit better. but in the end it is still sh*t.

am im correct or am i wrong here?
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:12 AM
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Simply put, you are wrong.
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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please enlighten me
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Old 01-10-2007, 04:05 AM
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Because scaling SD-DVD players work and work well. Your point does hold up a little for those that use external really high quality scalers though, displays are not equal to those types of dedicated scalers. The scaling SD-DVD player has a dedicated scalers optimized just for it's own SD-DVD playing.
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Because scaling SD-DVD players work and work well. Your point does hold up a little for those that use external really high quality scalers though, displays are not equal to those types of dedicated scalers. The scaling SD-DVD player has a dedicated scalers optimized just for it's own SD-DVD playing.


SD-DVDs will always have have an SD resolution. And a $100 upconverting player does not transform an SD-DVD into HD quality. The DVDO iScan range of scaler products start at $1199 and go up to $2,999. Serious AV hobbyists have a scaler like the iScan.

A $100 upconverting player would not provide the same quality of processing as would the iScan. And a firmware updated PS3 that would allow for upconversion would not perform on the same level as an iScan, for example.

It would be more likely that someone with a PS3 would prefer to run the playback of an SD-DVD through a standalone scaler if possible for better results.

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Old 01-10-2007, 05:22 AM
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It won't make a difference to someone who never had an upconverting player. But for those who are used to viewing their DVDs upconverted, it does make a difference.

I immediately noticed the difference once I got my upconverting player and prefer to watch my DVDs in that fashion. Would it have caused me not to purchase the PS3 if I didn't already have an upconverting player? No, it wouldn't. But's a nice feature to have
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:30 AM
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It's mainly deinterlacing that the DVD players has an advantage, after that, it depends on whether your TV or the DVD player has a better scaler.

Most recent TVs should have decent deinterlacers for SD signals but DVD players can do it better.

Very good TVs tend to have very good scalers. DVD players can have good deinterlacers (also can have good scalers).

But the above works only applies to movies. With sports TV or interlaced material, there's a lot of trickery involved and then it's more likely that the DVD player that tries to be too smart can trip up badly.

The advantage of having the TV do the scaling is that if your DVD player scales up, the resolution and output per pixel is limited to what that connection allows. If your display scales up, it can target whatever internal display subsystem it has.

For example if the TV has native 1366x768 resolution, it goes from 480P to 768P, and it can also allocate a lot more bits per channel in each pixel while horizontally scaling up (to the limits the display an handle). If instead you send it 1080P, you get 480P->1080P->768 which can create artifacts.

If you send it 1080i, most native 1366x768 TVs don't actually do proper deinterlacing with 1080i, it will just take 540 lines and upscale that to 768.

As for 1080P TVs, I have no idea if they know how to deinterlace 1080i to 1080P properly. I know for sure the cheap ones will not do it properly.
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Old 01-10-2007, 06:07 AM
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Because the PS3 was supposed to be an all-in-one solution.
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Old 01-10-2007, 06:23 AM
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I have a Sony XBR 60" SXRD. Everything given to it gets displayed in 1080p. So I too wonder why people want this. Sure I went out and bought a upconverting DVD player when I got my TV but then realized the TV is already doing that. I think the scaler in a $4000 TV might be better than the one in a $150 DVD player. A lot of TVs can do the upconversion so I don't need it in the PS3 also. I'm sure some do but some don't.

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Old 01-10-2007, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb_hburg View Post

SD-DVDs will always have have an SD resolution. And a $100 upconverting player does not transform an SD-DVD into HD quality. The DVDO iScan range of scaler products start at $1199 and go up to $2,999. Serious AV hobbyists have a scaler like the iScan.

A $100 upconverting player would not provide the same quality of processing as would the iScan. And a firmware updated PS3 that would allow for upconversion would not perform on the same level as an iScan, for example.

It would be more likely that someone with a PS3 would prefer to run the playback of an SD-DVD through a standalone scaler if possible for better results.


Tell that to the HD-A1, it's upconversion abilities rival $2k de-interlacers and it was included in that system. People want it, it's as simple as that.
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Old 01-10-2007, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post

u have a 1080p tv and a ps3 blu-ray player that can play blu-ray movie in 1080p.

now my question is why the hell u want to play a dvd movie that was design for 480p and upconvert it to a 1080p? wouldn't the dvd player that u have right now be sufficient enough? y the hell u want to stretch a dvd 480p movie into a 1080p? does it really make that much of a difference?

let me put it this way...let say u r eating sh*t...and u have an ingredient to make the sh*t taste and smell a little bit better. but in the end it is still sh*t.

am im correct or am i wrong here?

That was painful to read!
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:26 AM
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a Great HDTV (like my Pio PDP-5070HD)

...actually scales SD DVD's (fed via HDMI PS3 @ 480p)
BETTER than my Up-Converter does @ 1080i (Pio VD490V HDMI)

In fact , the PS3 SD DVD playback on the PS3 is nearly as good as Blu Ray!
(depending on movie PQ) when the PDP does the scaling to 768p
(my displays native res is 1365x768)

SD DVD Up-Converted, set @ 1080i (Pioneer DV-490v)


SD DVD via PS3 output @480p


Blu Ray via PS3 output @ 1080i


Here's one that's real hard to tell apart:
(Both on my PS3)

Underworld Evolution Blu-Ray


Underworld Evolution SD DVD


All photos completely untouched other than scaled and cropped
Dont know if that particular DVD was just really good,
or if the Blu Ray was bad...could be the lighting, or my cheap camera too

If Sony releases a PS3 up-converterer update that's beats that,
I wont need to buy Blu-Rays anymore

If you have an HDTV with a Crappy built-in scaler/processor,
then I suppose an external up-converter is your only option for SD DVD

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Old 01-10-2007, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb_hburg View Post

SD-DVDs will always have have an SD resolution. And a $100 upconverting player does not transform an SD-DVD into HD quality. The DVDO iScan range of scaler products start at $1199 and go up to $2,999. Serious AV hobbyists have a scaler like the iScan.

A $100 upconverting player would not provide the same quality of processing as would the iScan. And a firmware updated PS3 that would allow for upconversion would not perform on the same level as an iScan, for example.

It would be more likely that someone with a PS3 would prefer to run the playback of an SD-DVD through a standalone scaler if possible for better results.


Well nothing turns it into HD quality. But there are some inexpensive players that scale that do a wonderfull job at it, and a better job than most displays.

I have two of those players that I deem good enough for sure.

I can fully see why Sony did not include a scaler in the PS3 though.... Because at this point in the game, your display should support virtually any resolution being sent to it and handle it well.

In agreement, I think already rigth now, the no scaler is a big "no big deal" for the vast majority of PS3 owners. Their displays handle whatever it puts out and owners don't give it much if any thought at all.
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:53 AM
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I'll say this, the PS3 is a really nice SD DVD player. Maybe not Oppo level, but it's very good as it is.

Perhaps my HL-S5687 does a great job at upconverting, but I personally think the PS3 is far above my old component-based progressive scan Sony.
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:58 AM
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Upscaling is desired because it makes SD DVD's a bit more bearable, though of course they will never match native HD material, even cable/satellite HD. It's desired in PS3 because it's not really difficult to implement in software, and with HDMI being standard, there is really no reason not to offer this feature.

PS3 does not have a standard CPU, say a Pentium or Athlon, so it will take a bit longer for software to be written specifically for the Cell. However, there will be an update offering upscaling at some point....some say as early as March '07.

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Old 01-10-2007, 04:26 PM
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I was actually just comparing scenes from LOTRs on PS3 outputting 480p and my Sony upconverting player (DVP-NS75) to see if I should just take back the Sony upconverter. Basically this is really a comparison of how good my TVs scaler is (Sony 50A2000).

My unscientific conclusion was that the Sony upconverting player still gave a better picture outputting over HDMI at 1080i than the PS3 over HDMI at 480p. So for the minor $120 I spent on the S75, I have decided to keep it and use it for my reg DVD collection for now and hope that one day the PS3 will upconvert so I can move the S75 to a secondary room/TV.

I'm not sure how good the A2000's scaler is, or how its generally considered to be, but I'm sure there are some TVs where the benefit would be unnoticeable.

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Old 01-10-2007, 05:13 PM
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I own a PS3 as well: if Sony adds an upconverting feature, I would not mind it, but as of now I do not really feel it is necessary. Pretty much like PioManiac, I am happy with my Sharp D62 panel doing the upconversion. In my case it is also very very watchable.

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Old 01-10-2007, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsb_hburg View Post

And a firmware updated PS3 that would allow for upconversion would not perform on the same level as an iScan, for example.

Given the horsepower of the PS3 and the fact that it's doing BD processing in software with excellent results, I think your assertion is nothing more than speculation. The proof will be in the pudding if Sony ever gets off their butts and introduces a feature that this product was supposed to ship with.

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Old 01-10-2007, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post

u have a 1080p tv and a ps3 blu-ray player that can play blu-ray movie in 1080p.

now my question is why the hell u want to play a dvd movie that was design for 480p and upconvert it to a 1080p? wouldn't the dvd player that u have right now be sufficient enough? y the hell u want to stretch a dvd 480p movie into a 1080p? does it really make that much of a difference?

Yes, it does. If you've never witnessed it yourself, then I suggest you try it.

Quote:


let me put it this way...let say u r eating sh*t...and u have an ingredient to make the sh*t taste and smell a little bit better. but in the end it is still sh*t.

am im correct or am i wrong here?

Wow, you're comparing watching DVD's to eating excrement. I'm at a loss on how to even respond.

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Old 01-10-2007, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TauRus View Post

I own a PS3 as well: if Sony adds an upconverting feature, I would not mind it, but as of now I do not really feel it is necessary. Pretty much like PioManiac, I am happy with my Sharp D62 panel doing the upconversion. In my case it is also very very watchable.

I have a dedicated upscaling player, but it would really help on the movies where they release the extra content in SD. When my PS3 switches from 720p or 1080i to 480p to display it, it looks horrible. Other than that, it would be nice to have one less piece of gear in my rack, and I could rehome the upscaling DVD player to another area of the house.

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Old 01-10-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

I was actually just comparing scenes from LOTRs on PS3 outputting 480p and my Sony upconverting player (DVP-NS75) to see if I should just take back the Sony upconverter. Basically this is really a comparison of how good my TVs scaler is (Sony 50A2000).

My unscientific conclusion was that the Sony upconverting player still gave a better picture outputting over HDMI at 1080i than the PS3 over HDMI at 480p. So for the minor $120 I spent on the S75, I have decided to keep it and use it for my reg DVD collection for now and hope that one day the PS3 will upconvert so I can move the S75 to a secondary room/TV.

I'm not sure how good the A2000's scaler is, or how its generally considered to be, but I'm sure there are some TVs where the benefit would be unnoticeable.

There are several variables and your comparison illustrates one.

I have a Denon 2910 upconverting DVD player and an ISF'ed SXRD XBR1. I get my best DVD picture with either 1080i over HDMI or 480p over component (believe they are equal). The SXRD over filters 480i/480p input over HDMI. This was shown to me by my ISF tech while he was calibrating all my inputs/components. This may be the reason your A2000 looks significantly better with 1080i over HDMI.

I've tried the PS3 at 480p and I believe it is the equal of the Denon over HDMI. I haven't bothered to run component cables for it.

I now use the PS3 over HDMI for Blu Ray and the Denon at 480p over component for regular DVDs.
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlb View Post

There are several variables and your comparison illustrates one.

I have a Denon 2910 upconverting DVD player and an ISF'ed SXRD XBR1. I get my best DVD picture with either 1080i over HDMI or 480p over component (believe they are equal). The SXRD over filters 480i/480p input over HDMI. This was shown to me by my ISF tech while he was calibrating all my inputs/components. This may be the reason your A2000 looks significantly better with 1080i over HDMI.

I've tried the PS3 at 480p and I believe it is the equal of the Denon over HDMI. I haven't bothered to run component cables for it.

I now use the PS3 over HDMI for Blu Ray and the Denon at 480p over component for regular DVDs.


Thats interesting information, perhaps I will try and see how the sony looks via component with 480p vs itself at 1080i over HDMI. Harder to compare as I'll have to keep switching cables.

That said, I just rented my first BD (KOH) and I really don't think I can go back to watching any type of reg DVD (upscaled or not)!! I realize KOH is the top of the line in blu-ray quality but damn it looks so good in full 1080p on my 1080p display!

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Old 01-10-2007, 09:07 PM
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Vincent the question isn't why would you want an upscaling update... but rather, why wouldn't you?
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:56 PM
 
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Don't forget PS3 marketing hype:

"The cell will age SD into HD"
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:03 PM
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Hey Chris, good I'm glad you're here. So hard to find you these days...

On a serious note, I think about 20% of your entire post count has been in the last 72 hours, and almost all of it devoted to lambasting Blu-ray and/or it's industry supporters. Why don't you try something new and discuss something positive for once? It doesn't have to be about BD, since I don't want you to have an aneurysm, it can be about HD DVD. But just give it a shot, and try to leave the anger at the door.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Hey Chris, good I'm glad you're here. So hard to find you these days...

On a serious note, I think about 20% of your entire post count has been in the last 72 hours, and almost all of it devoted to lambasting Blu-ray and/or it's industry supporters. Why don't you try something new and discuss something positive for once? It doesn't have to be about BD, since I don't want you to have an aneurysm, it can be about HD DVD. But just give it a shot, and try to leave the anger at the door.

I can make the same post about your actions in the HD DVD forum.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris in SD View Post

I can make the same post about your actions in the HD DVD forum.

Ok... well... why don't you go find my posts in the HD DVD forum and see if you can? You may surprise yourself. I think I've posted there all of five times in my entire tenure here.
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Old 01-11-2007, 12:41 AM
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You're wrong and missing the most obvious reason, it's going to take ages for alot of the older catalog movies to be released in an HD format. If the PS3 upconverts you can use it as your single DVD/BD player and not have to keep your upconverting DVD player around.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Vincent the question isn't why would you want an upscaling update... but rather, why wouldn't you?

The real question is, why is Vincent eating poop, seasoned or otherwise?
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Old 01-11-2007, 06:44 AM
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vincentnyc ,

For a forum that is head and shoulders above USENET, you certainly have a nice way of making a post resemble a USENET post. But back OT.

As others have stated, it is about choice. When you feed a 480i/p PS3 SD-DVD signal to a fixed pixel display, that signal will get upconverted to the native rez of the display. If the PS3 has the ability to upconvert, then the user can pick the device that upconverts, thereby ensuring he attains the best picture possible with his given setup.

So why would anyone not want to have a choice? Especially since that choice is FREE (assuming the PS3 can be updated via firmware, and by all accounts, that seems to be the case)??

-T
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