BLU-RAY + SACD + DVD-A + Good Cd player - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm an HD-DVD owner and a huge audiophile the only way I'll buy a blu-ray player is if it can replace my Pioneer elite DVD/DVD-A/SACD player. I have no more room in my audio cabinet and no more inputs on my Lexicon MC-1 for audio. So I'd need a player that completely replaces my Pioneer which I now only use for audio purposes it does a good job of it though.

I have about 50 SACD's and about 50 DVD-A's.

Will there ever be a BLU-RAY player that excels in audio CD/SACD/DVD-A playback?

If Pioneer came out with a player that did BLU-RAY, SACD/CD/DVD-A I'd probably buy it.

So any plans from any CE company to make a player like this?
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post #2 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 10:16 AM
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the ps3 *might* do all these things. Not sure about dvd-a
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post #3 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I know the PS3 plays SACD but I would not use that as a replacement for my pioneer 49AI Elite player plus it would leave my 50 DVD-A's useless.

I've heard the PS3 in stores and they are loud, much louder than my 360. I also question the cd audio quality of the PS3.

I want a BLU-RAY player that delivers high end quality CD/SACD/DVD-A, playback
I'm happy with the 360 and the HD-DVD add-on and do not want another game console. I would not use the 360 for my primary mode of audio playback either.

I'm looking for a high end replacement to my Pioneer Elite CD/SACD/DVD-A players that plays BLU-RAY as well but is considered great quality on the audio playback side.
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post #4 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dallas27 View Post

the ps3 *might* do all these things. Not sure about dvd-a

Nice try Dallas, but nothing with a Sony badge will play DVD-A.

To the OP, I am in much the same situation (I don't currently have a DVD-A player, but I do have HD DVD and SACD), and IMO we are going to have to wait a while for an all inclusive player to be available.

What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?
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post #5 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 10:46 AM
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Pioneer would first have to put an SA-CD compatible laser diode into a player. The Elite doesn't even do CD's right now.

I think most neutral manufacturers will be waiting for the diode market to stabilize and the prices to come down before adding everything under one roof. Goodness, both HD camps haven't even gotten their interactive software down pat yet! The software logistics must be a nightmare.

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post #6 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I've heard the PS3 in stores and they are loud, much louder than my 360. I also question the cd audio quality of the PS3.

Really? I have both. The majority of people that have both on these forums, will confirm the opposite. The 360 is a noisy and mediocre HD-DVD player, but a great games machine. The PS3 pretty much excels on all fronts, audio included and is near silent.
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post #7 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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"The PS3 pretty much excels on all fronts, audio included and is near silent."

Sorry from what I heard with my own ears the PS3 will not do for me, and it will not replace the audio capabilities of the Pioneer Elite player. I don't use my 360 to play cd's and the 360 add-on is every bit as good as the Toshiba HD-DVD players, but that is not what this thread is about. No PS3 for me, anymore options upcoming?
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post #8 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 11:31 AM
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Keep the elite for SACD/DVD-A capibilities because it will be hard to get both in your high def movie upgrade, whatever it is. Plus, you paid good money for that Pio E, and you can get more time for your investment by keeping it. I know you mentioned cabinent room, exhaust all your options here before you comprimise on electronics.
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post #9 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Yea I do not want to compromise, looks like I'll have to wait for BLU-RAY to mature and produce a good all in one player for it to be a replacment for the audio side of my system.

It didn't take long for a good audio universal player to come out through.
HD-DVD was a no brainer since I already had the Xbox 360 but anything else that goes in my system will have to replace something else since I'm all out of room and audio inputs.

I don't think it's to much to ask for a BLU-RAY player to deliver high end audio and play all the current audio formats. Wonder why Pioneer can't step it up and just add BLU-RAY capabilities to their universal line of Elite players? Sad the current Pioneer BLU-RAY doesn't even play cd's
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post #10 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Yea I do not want to compromise, looks like I'll have to wait for BLU-RAY to mature and produce a good all in one player for it to be a replacment for the audio side of my system.

It didn't take long for a good audio universal player to come out through.
HD-DVD was a no brainer since I already had the Xbox 360 but anything else that goes in my system will have to replace something else since I'm all out of room and audio inputs.

I don't think it's to much to ask for a BLU-RAY player to deliver high end audio and play all the current audio formats. Wonder why Pioneer can't step it up and just add BLU-RAY capabilities to their universal line of Elite players? Sad the current Pioneer BLU-RAY doesn't even play cd's

hi there--I know this won't solve all your problems but the panasonic dmp-bd10 plays dvd-a and looks by the specs to have decent electronics inside--i feel your pain--I use my denon dvd 5910 for my multiple dvd-a and sacd tities and plan to for a long time to come--the superior audio by these machines is not likely to be surpassed for standard dvda and sacd at any point (because of the new audio formats if blu ray and hd-dvd survive and because the audio industry has unfortunately all but abandoned these superb formats) so I think we will probably be stuck using the new players for hd video and new format music when it arrives.

I also sympathize with the input proboemm--iI have been itching to get the very comely panny bd player and teh toshiba xa2 but I also have no more 5 or 7 channel inputs on my parasound c1--I am hoping they will be able to firmware update the processor for the new formats so I can plug the new machines in via toslink or coax...
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post #11 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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"panasonic dmp-bd10"

Cool this is the type of info I'm looking for I'll take a look at this player.
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post #12 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I know the PS3 plays SACD but I would not use that as a replacement for my pioneer 49AI Elite player plus it would leave my 50 DVD-A's useless.

I've heard the PS3 in stores and they are loud, much louder than my 360. I also question the cd audio quality of the PS3.

side.

The PS3 is considerably quieter than the 360. i have both sitting on the same shelf in my cabinet, and cannot hear the ps3, ever. the 360 on the other hand is never inaudible. if you'd like, i'll shoot you a video clip of both so you can compare.

the ps3 you heard in the store was probably encased in a plastic case and was whirring away to keep cool because it is not ventilated...or it was defective. otherwise, if you can handle a 360's noise, you can certainly handle a ps3's.

for reference, both of my systems are launch units, premium 360, 60gb ps3. (perhaps the 20gb's are louder?)

get a ps3...if you can hear it, take it back.
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post #13 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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"The PS3 is considerably quieter than the 360."

Thanx for the info but the PS3 is not an option for me, it will not work for me as a dedicated high end audio player no DVD-A support, most SACD's have a CD layer so at worst I could live with a BLU-RAY player that did DVD-A like the Panasonic. It's also not designed for audio and is not something I'm considering even besides how loud it sounded in the stores.

There is to much other electronic things going on in a game console for it to deliver serious audio quality which is why I do not use my 360 to play cd's. I disable all video functions on my Pioneer Elite player when I play audio through it, it has a specific button just for that so that video portion of the player doesn't introduce interference in the audio chain.

No PS3, not an option
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post #14 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

"The PS3 is considerably quieter than the 360."

Thanx for the info but the PS3 is not an option for me, it will not work for me as a dedicated high end audio player no DVD-A support, most SACD's have a CD layer so at worst I could live with a BLU-RAY player that did DVD-A like the Panasonic. It's also not designed for audio and is not something I'm considering even besides how loud it sounded in the stores.

There is to much other electronic things going on in a game console for it to deliver serious audio quality which is why I do not use my 360 to play cd's. I disable all video functions on my Pioneer Elite player when I play audio through it, it has a specific button just for that so that video portion of the player doesn't introduce interference in the audio chain.

No PS3, not an option

yeah, my Denon receiver has the same function, called PureDirect. it shuts off video circuitry when playing audio streams...the problem is, it sounds worse with PureDirect activated.
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post #15 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

"panasonic dmp-bd10"

Cool this is the type of info I'm looking for I'll take a look at this player.

They have it at crutchfield's site and vann's and not too many other reputable sites that I have seen (at least via a nextag search). IMHO by far the nicest looking one i've seen--would be great to hear a review of the dvd-a capability compared to your reference pioneer if you end up getting one. Since it is so universal, I am considering getting one nayway, even if blu ray (or both hd-dvd and blu ray) loses the format war at least I would haave a nice cd/dvd-a/upconverting dvd player for a bedroom/office/exercise room--since video games really don't interest me and, like you mentioned, it seems to have more reference grade electronics inside compared to the gaming consoles...I Hope this helps--I went back to crutchfield's site and looked to see if any otehrs also did dvd-a (they have most of the available ones there) and I didn't notice any others that did dvd-a and none at all that did sacd.

btw, also checked out the new LG hd-dvd/blu ray combo player specs at bestbuy's site--online reviews thus far seem to make it out to be mostly a blu ray player with lo-q internals not worth the investment if you are an a/v phile. also no sacd/dvd-a playback.
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post #16 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I've heard the PS3 in stores and they are loud, much louder than my 360.

The only time a 360 is quieter than a PS3 is when the 360 is turned off.
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post #17 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 05:03 PM
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the Panasonic DMP-BD10 plays BDs, DVD-Audio, and CDs, but not SACD.
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post #18 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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"The only time a 360 is quieter than a PS3 is when the 360 is turned off."

That's fine the PS3 is not an option for me thank you no more people need to respond about the PS3 it's not something I'm going to buy, it does not meet my audio needs.

Ther Panasonic seems to be a contender, any up coming BLU-RAY players in the works that are more geared toward audiophiles and or have DVD-A and SCAD playback?
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post #19 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 08:11 PM
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If you have an HDMI based receiver or SSP I would recommend getting the Panasonic BD player and the Oppo 981. Use the 981 for SACD, DVD-A and CD via HDMI and the Panny for BD playback. That way everything stays native and your SSP or receiver does the work. The only thing that happens is the convert from DSD to PCM in the Oppo, which isn't a big deal and still sounds excellent.

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post #20 of 50 Old 02-04-2007, 09:28 PM
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The PS3 works well for SACD playback over HDMI. 176.4 Khz pcm stereo SACD and 88.2khz six channel pcm from SACD sounds very good. I guess if my receiver was HDMI 1.2(it's only 1.1) it wouldn't convert to pcm before transfer over HDMI. I do wish it also played DVD-A..

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post #21 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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No PS3 for me, not going to happen, it does not need to be brought up again please, I am not going to buy a PS3 to replace my pioneer as my main audio source.

I have a lexicon MC-1 pre/pro, no HDMI connections only optical or analog for audio.
Space and inputs are a concern for me so I need one player that can replace my Pioneer.
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post #22 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 05:22 AM
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Instead of trying to buy something that doesn't exist and is probably not going to happen for a long time, just buy 6 analog splitters ($1.86 each at monoprice) and hook up the pioneer and HD-DVD to your processer. Best of both worlds. I know this works because that's what I'm doing. I'm using a Pioneer 79AVI for the SACD & DVD-A for multichannel and upscaling if needed and the HD-DVD-XA1 for its multichannel capabilities without a glitch. This should also work for those with the Blu-Ray players. Just need the splitters that are 1 male to 2 females. Works perfectly for multichannel music without the cost of a new player or processer. I like most here am looking for the perfect player whether it is Blu=Ray or HD-DVD, and it seems that is either a long way off or will be cost prohibited for those unless you have a lot of money to keep trying each new player that hits the market. I am not one of those.
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post #23 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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While a nice idea won't work for me as I have the 360 add-on so no analog out from that.

Guessing from the thread replies there is no news on any upcoming BLU-RAY player that is geared toward audiophiles? Or one that does both DVD-A and SACD?

I'll keep an eye on the panasonic that one may do if it has decent audio quality.
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post #24 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 06:50 AM
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Sorry, did not realize you were using 360 add-on.
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post #25 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Instead of trying to buy something that doesn't exist and is probably not going to happen for a long time, just buy 6 analog splitters ($1.86 each at monoprice) and hook up the pioneer and HD-DVD to your processer. Best of both worlds. I know this works because that's what I'm doing.

Such 'splitters,' which you are using as 'combiners,' connect all the inputs/outputs together and they work if all the output impedances are low (but not too low) compared with the input impedance of the next device. A switch would be better and safer.

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post #26 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I know the PS3 plays SACD but I would not use that as a replacement for my pioneer 49AI Elite player plus it would leave my 50 DVD-A's useless.

I've heard the PS3 in stores and they are loud, much louder than my 360. I also question the cd audio quality of the PS3.

I want a BLU-RAY player that delivers high end quality CD/SACD/DVD-A, playback
I'm happy with the 360 and the HD-DVD add-on and do not want another game console. I would not use the 360 for my primary mode of audio playback either.

I'm looking for a high end replacement to my Pioneer Elite CD/SACD/DVD-A players that plays BLU-RAY as well but is considered great quality on the audio playback side.

I had similar concerns as yours. I had a Meridian 598 DVD-A player and Meridian 861V4 Processor which (to put it politely) would stomp a Lexicon/Pioneer setup on DVD-A (no extra a to d and d to a conversion that your setup would require). I decided to test the DTS tracks on the same DVD-A's as the MLP's. They sound just as good. Really, I tested every DVD-A I had, I have about 15 or so. Every nuance was captured, the instrument placement was identical, the bass was identical. I did this before I purchased the PS3, because like you I had cabinet limitations and personally would love a single player that does all. So I sold the Meridian player and bought the PS3. However, the PS3 is not a great CD player. Not because it sounds bad, because I refuse to use the TV to listen to navigate CD's. I also don't care for slot type loading mechanisms.

So I purchased Squeeze Box for playing CD's. This is the greatest thing since sliced bread. To be honest I get more out of it than the PS3 (which I do enjoy). Since getting the Squeeze Box I may not even pursue the SACD capabilities of the PS3 (requires an HDMI card from Meridian which I suspect will cost more than $2,000). I have put ALL my DVD-A's (DTS or AC3 form), CD's, Music DVD's, DTS CD's on the SqueezeBox. I enjoy my music more than I ever have. I just let it sit on Random the whole weekend, you may not even know what music you have.

I reserve the PS3 for DVD, Blu-Ray and occasional games (which I also never considered before) and the SqueezeBox for all music. If you can't rip it, I won't buy it.

SqueezeBox is cheap and doesn't take much room either.

P.S. I'm not sure if all DVD-A's support DVD mode (598 does and Panasonic BD does) but if you can try switching it to DVD mode and listen to the DTS tracks I'll bet the sound even better on your setup because you'll cut out the D to A and A to D. Of course not all DVD-A have DTS but many do. The AC3 is very very good too.
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post #27 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

There is to much other electronic things going on in a game console for it to deliver serious audio quality which is why I do not use my 360 to play cd's. I disable all video functions on my Pioneer Elite player when I play audio through it, it has a specific button just for that so that video portion of the player doesn't introduce interference in the audio chain.

LOL...so, how do you expect interference will be introduced into the digital audio bitstream passed by HDMI?
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post #28 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Squeeze box sounds interesting but now way possible I can rip my 6000+ cd's to my PC at CD quality. Nice idea though and thanx for the info.

At this point I'm happy with HD-DVD but I know I'll be itching for some BLU-RAY titles at some point.

Hopefully in the next year or so they will release a versatile and high end audio BLU-RAy player
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post #29 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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"LOL...so, how do you expect interference will be introduced into the digital audio bitstream passed by HDMI?"

My pre\\pro does not have hdmi I will not be using hdmi for audio. In my system Audio and Video are completely separated and I'd like to keep it that way.
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post #30 of 50 Old 02-05-2007, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Squeeze box sounds interesting but now way possible I can rip my 6000+ cd's to my PC at CD quality. Nice idea though and thanx for the info.

At this point I'm happy with HD-DVD but I know I'll be itching for some BLU-RAY titles at some point.

Hopefully in the next year or so they will release a versatile and high end audio BLU-RAy player

I can't imagine trying to find anything with 6000 CD's. It must be a full time job just keep them organized. Doing it electronically is the best way to organize your music. The more CD's you have the more it makes sense to use a server. You don't have to RIP the whole CD and they don't all have to all be a full bit rate.

At 2 hr's a day 365 days a year it would take 8 years to listen to each CD once.

A music server helps organize the music you like and manage it.

It does force you to cleanup your library a bit.
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