Have I been HD-DVD brainwashed? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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When the formats first came out, I saw (with my own eyes) that HD-DVDs tended to look either better or much better than BRs. Phantom of the Opera and King Kong were jaw dropping and every BR I saw (granted... on that troubled Samsung player) looked grainy and unnatural. What's more, the difference between the BR demo discs (which looked sensational) and the consumer software was unmissable.

I started reading the HD-DVD forum (where there is tremendous BR bashing) a few months ago, and it seemed quite clear to me that HD-DVD was the better format out of the gate.

Now, I still haven't purchased an HD player, and I get the sense that the gap may be narrowing. My number one priority is HD PQ, followed closely by SD-DVD upconversion (where it still appears clear that the Tosh XA2 dominates). The price difference is not important to me.

If I were reading this forum, rathern than that one, would I be convinced that BR is the way to go? Does everyone here feel like, in terms of HD PQ, BRs have caught up with or surpassed HD-DVDs? Does anyone here feel like a BR player can compete with the Tosh XA2 for SD upconversion?

Thanks for the opinions. Hopefully this honest inquiry into whether I'm being close minded about BR won't ignite any flames.

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post #2 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 04:24 PM
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Hey Jeff,

I do not have an HD DVD player so I will not comment on the PQ of Universal or Weinstein movies. I will say with the exception of Fox's latest catalogue titles (which aren't horrible.. just not great) that the performance of all other BD exclusive studios since the first of the year have been great. Sony and Disney have really stepped it up a notch and Lionsgate has been releasing quality PQ since late last year. Stranger Than Fiction, The Prestige, The Departed, Crank, Open Season.... all look fantastic to me. Warner and Paramount titles from all the comparisons I've seen on these boards look pretty much identical on both formats.

As for upconverting DVDs all I can tell you is the PS3 doesn't do it... yet. A firmware upgrade in the future may rectify this in the future. I won't comment on other Blu-ray players as I don't own any of them.

Unlike you my primary reason for supporting Blu-ray is studio support and I can't see spending the money for a HD-DVD player just to watch Universal titles. I know this isn't relevant to your post however I am stating it so you know where my biases lie. I've tried to give you the information you've requested without letting my biases get in the way. I hope it helps.


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post #3 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 04:26 PM
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Blu Ray looks as good or better than HD DVD. I have owned both and compared them on my ISF calibrated 1080P projector. The first few discs looked abit questionable but that was months ago.

ALmost all Blu Ray discs have lossless sound. Not so with HD DVD (far less).

HD DVD is going to lose the format war as the studios have choked their content off.

HD DVD owners will not be watching Casino Royale next week.


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post #4 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 04:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

HD DVD owners will not be watching Casino Royale next week.

I own HDDVD and I will be watching Casino Royale next week.
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post #5 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post


If I were reading this forum, rathern than that one, would I be convinced that BR is the way to go? Does everyone here feel like, in terms of HD PQ, BRs have caught up with or surpassed HD-DVDs? Does anyone here feel like a BR player can compete with the Tosh XA2 for SD upconversion?

In terms of HD PQ, Blu-ray is capable of performing as well or better than HD DVD. Some of the early releases were decidedly inferior, and even some of the newer releases are so-so. In general BD doesn't seem as consistant as HD DVD, but as I recall, many of the DVDs I purchased during the first three years of the format were hit-and-miss, so this is not really surprising. The bottom line is content. I was sceptical when Jeff was saying this though a bull-horn last Fall, but the post-CES drought has driven this point home. Universal has some nice catalog titles, but one major studio and some neutral support from two others is not enough to sustain a format in the long-term.
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post #6 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Blu Ray looks as good or better than HD DUD.

I would say Crank does. Other than that, I would strongly disagree. The releases as a whole are getting much better though. In the end, yes they should look equal for all intents and purposes.
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post #7 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

At 6X less resolution



What's being released on HD DVD next Tuesday, March 6 to combat Casino Royale?

Answer: Nothing


What is being released on HD DVD on the 13th?

Answer: Nothing

What is being released on HD DVD on the 20th?

Answer: Nothing




....you get the idea.....

Nice Job stoping on the 20th

The 27th brings Children of Men (Universal) <- COMBO
Happy Feet (Warner) <- COMBO
March of the Penguins (Warner)
Relentless Enemies (National Geographic/Warner)

4/3/2007
The Good Shepherd (Universal) <- COMBO

4/10/2007
Dog Day Afternoon (Warner)
Payback: Straight Up (Paramount)
A Scanner Darkly (Warner)

My review comparisons of Energy RC-70s to Veritas V6.3
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post #8 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 05:42 PM
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Nice Job stoping on the 20th

Hey, all facts...

But to your point,

8 discs over 8 weeks, 2 exclusive....not much to get excited about......................


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post #9 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 05:58 PM
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The issue of DVD upconversion seems to have been glossed over here.

I had a chance to demo a PS3 and the first gen Samsung player for upconversion using some SD DVDs. I was far from impressed compared to my A1.

Any word on the quality of the newer units for upconversion?
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post #10 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:01 PM
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If you are in the market for a HDTV, buy a SHARP AQUOS 46" and get PS3 for free.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16889101094

Does price really matter if you are buying a ticket on the Titanic?
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post #11 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

If I were reading this forum, rathern than that one, would I be convinced that BR is the way to go? Does everyone here feel like, in terms of HD PQ, BRs have caught up with or surpassed HD-DVDs? Does anyone here feel like a BR player can compete with the Tosh XA2 for SD upconversion?

Thanks for the opinions. Hopefully this honest inquiry into whether I'm being close minded about BR won't ignite any flames.

Honestly - I wouldn't base my decision on PQ. I think both formats offer outstanding PQ that will satisfy all but the pickiest of videophiles.

Before investing a decent amount of money into one format or the other (this assumes that you aren't loaded) - decide whether you think format will be viable in 2 or 3 years from now.

I think becuase of the PS3 - it is a virtual lock that Blu-Ray will stick it out for the long haul. I think it's somewhat less of a lock that HD DVD will be able to stick it out.

Personally - the PS3 offers me so much that it was an easy decision to make. If I already owned an XBOX however, I would have sprung for the add-on. I, personally, wouldn't buy a standalone right now because I think they are way to expensive. By the end of the year - you'll be looking at 3 or 4 hundred dollar models and we'll know a bit more about whether HD DVD has the staying power.
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post #12 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Blu Ray looks as good or better than HD DUD. I have owned both and compared them on my ISF calibrated 1080P projector. The first few discs looked abit questionable but that was months ago.

ALmost all Blu Ray discs have lossless sound. Not so with HD DVD (far less).

HD DVD is going to lose the format war as the studios have choked their content off.

HD DVD owners will not be watching Casino Royale next week.


Something is clearly wrong with your "calibrated" projector. HD DVD has hands down WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better 3D depth over 95% of the time. Other thanj depth the two formats are equal.
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post #13 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:05 PM
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Who cares about upconversion?

If you want good upconversion, there are many DVD players that do it well (as well as scalers). This is a HD (Blu Ray) forum.


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post #14 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:12 PM
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Who cares about upconversion?


The average buying public like myself. I don't have room in my AV cabinet for more than one optical player. Plus I wouldn't mind to be able to watch the 200+ DVDs I have and not have them look like crap.

If you read closely, SD DVD upconversion is nearly as important as HD PQ to the OP.

And as for Crank and Casino Royale *yawn*
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post #15 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Blu Ray looks as good or better than HD DUD

Yeah, sure it does..LOL
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post #16 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Does everyone here feel like, in terms of HD PQ, BRs have caught up with or surpassed HD-DVDs?
.

Watch Open Season and your question will be answered.
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post #17 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post

The average buying public like myself.

The "average buying public" haven't got a clue as to what upscaling means or what good DVD playback looks like. Their $60 Philips player is doing just fine for them.

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post #18 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:40 PM
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Watch Open Season and your question will be answered.

All of the animated movies on BD look great, no doubt. That's one reason I bought it. Now non animated movies, BD still has some work to do in this area.
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post #19 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post

The average buying public like myself. I don't have room in my AV cabinet for more than one optical player. Plus I wouldn't mind to be able to watch the 200+ DVDs I have and not have them look like crap.

If you read closely, SD DVD upconversion is nearly as important as HD PQ to the OP.

And as for Crank and Casino Royale *yawn*

Don't like the tough guys those Blu Ray titles? HD DVD has Brokeback Mountain then, eh?


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post #20 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:43 PM
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Brokeback Mouintain then, eh?

LOL!!!!!!
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post #21 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:44 PM
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I also own both that A1 and the Panny Blu Ray player, and there is no question that they are equal in PQ; you have to be delusional to think that HD DVD is "more dimensional 95% of the time". Also, the high end audio support is better on Blu Ray right now. Beyond that they are fairly comprable (HD DVD has a bit better menus implimented, IMO, but Blu Ray has more and better movies, also IMO).

So yes, you have been somewhat influenced ("brainwashed is probably too strong a word) by the HD DVD forums.

Be a Reality fanboy.
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post #22 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Scoob View Post

All of the animated movies on BD look great, no doubt. That's one reason I bought it. Now non animated movies, BD still has some work to do in this area.

All animated movies on everything look great. The math is simpler for the scaler.
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post #23 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 06:57 PM
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I own the HD-A1 and just recently purchased the Panasonic DMP-BD10A. With the titles I have seen so far (Eight Below & Tears of the Sun) picture quality and clarity is equal to the A1. I also find the inclusion of the PCM sound tracks with Blu-ray to be a big plus.
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post #24 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:03 PM
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im not even going to begin about content and that other crap. You asked about PQ...the answer is....HD-DVD has, from the beginning, had excellent picture quality. BR started off a bit rough but is definitely improving. I still feel the edge goes slightly to HD-DVD.

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post #25 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs View Post

I still feel the edge goes slightly to HD-DVD.

I don't see how this is possible, unless you are referring to overall releases so far. I can understand the edge going to a HD-DVD player but not the format itself. Many of the Blu-ray warner releases are bit for bit identical to the HD-DVD, for example. Any differences between them are purely player induced.

Also, the HD-DVD specs offer no PQ advantages over Blu-ray (in fact, Blu-ray has the potential for lower distortion due to its higher capacity and data rate).
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post #26 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SyHD View Post

If you are in the market for a HDTV, buy a SHARP AQUOS 46" and get PS3 for free.


That is a good deal, but it says "limit 20 per customer". I was hoping to cover every wall in my house with the pair and I need 34.

Seriously, though, wtf? Does newegg sell to dealers much?
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post #27 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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No dealer would ever buy from NewEgg.

And regarding up-converting, I can tell you SD DVDs played in the XA2 with a little tweaking of the color and image enhancement tools you can get most BD exclusive titles in SD DVD to look just like the best BD player with the BD title playing.

And though not quite as great all other G1 and G2 HD DVD players do an excellent job of up-converting all SD DVD as well.

-Robert
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post #28 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:43 PM
 
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Both formats are capable of producing the exact same picture quality. It should not factor into your decision.

My basic advice hasn't changed. Unless you don't mind tossing $$$ out the window, don't buy either yet.
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post #29 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

No dealer would ever buy from NewEgg.

And regarding up-converting, I can tell you SD DVDs played in the XA2 with a little tweaking of the color and image enhancement tools you can get most BD exclusive titles in SD DVD to look just like the best BD player with the BD title playing.

And though not quite as great all other G1 and G2 HD DVD players do an excellent job of up-converting all SD DVD as well.

-Robert

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post #30 of 191 Old 03-05-2007, 07:53 PM
 
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Rob and what do you recommend for the hundreds of thousands of HT enthusiasts, just use cable and or up-converted SD DVDs??

What's wrong with spending sub $400 for a HD optical player and get 7 free HD discs and an HDMI cable so we can all enjoy the very best picture and audio quality now? Or to go all out and spend $700 to $900 and get either a premium BD player of the flagship HD DVD player?

This is one of the best hobbies anyone can possibly have and for a few hundred bucks we can get far more enjoyment out of our systems so it makes no sense not to jump in now.

As I have said before, life's to short not to and way too long no to as well.

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