PS3 and DTS-HD MA: is it really planned? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie Eldridge View Post

Is this really a hardware issue or more of a licensing issue? Or, perhaps a bit of both?

Software issue. Reports I have seen indicate DTS charges the same royalty for a DTS player or a DTS-MA player. So, the PS3 is paid up. The cell processor should have the horsepower to decode it (it is less certain the hardware can pass it via bitstream), but the software needs to be either written (& tested) or implimented.

Here is to hoping!
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post #92 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

Software issue. Reports I have seen indicate DTS charges the same royalty for a DTS player or a DTS-MA player. So, the PS3 is paid up. The cell processor should have the horsepower to decode it (it is less certain the hardware can pass it via bitstream), but the software needs to be either written (& tested) or implimented.

Here is to hoping!

And people are already complaining about bugs with new DTS-MA hardware (and software titles) out there, so the more testing the better.

One of the reasons (besides it's awesome hardware ensemble) for the PS3 being such a great Blu-ray player is it was by far the most tested pice of hardware before the format's launch.

Hopefully when we get our decoding everything will work just right!

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post #93 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

All you have to do is switch your HDMI output to PCM and the PS3 will decode the TrueHD track. That's how you get lossless audio from the PS3.

The HDMI audio setting in the PS3 is only to tell it what to do with DD and DTS tracks. If you set it to bitstream, it will output DD & DTS to a receiver. It will still decode the advanced audio in the PS3. I know this because that's how I have my PS3 set up. It's also explained online by Sony in their online PS3 manual.
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post #94 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 03:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Robert George View Post
It should be pointed out that this opinion is held exclusively by those that have not actually HEARD bitstream hi-res audio decoded in receiver/processor.

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Originally Posted by threefirstnames View Post

it's also worth noting that nearly all those who hold the opposite opinion have not actually done a double-blind test to come to their conclusion scientifically.


So, what's your point?

We are talking about OPINIONS here, not scientific studies. The people I was referring to, the ones who think they know what I and many others are hearing, or not hearing, haven't conducted any double blind scientific tests either to come to their conclusion. Their's is just an opinion based on assumptions based on incomplete data.

So who's opinion is worth more, the guy who actually did a thing or the guy who read about it?
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post #95 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 03:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I was told more than 8 months ago by DTS that they were working with Sony to bring DTS-HD MA decoding to the PS3.

I finally gave up waiting last week and bought the Panasonic BD30.

Which means we will have dtsHDMA decoding the day after your return window expires....
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post #96 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowenbotten View Post

The HDMI audio setting in the PS3 is only to tell it what to do with DD and DTS tracks. If you set it to bitstream, it will output DD & DTS to a receiver. It will still decode the advanced audio in the PS3. I know this because that's how I have my PS3 set up. It's also explained online by Sony in their online PS3 manual.

So your receiver shows DD and DTS for those tracks, and just multi-channel in for the advanced audio tracks?
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post #97 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

So, what's your point?

We are talking about OPINIONS here, not scientific studies. The people I was referring to, the ones who think they know what I and many others are hearing, or not hearing, haven't conducted any double blind scientific tests either to come to their conclusion. Their's is just an opinion based on assumptions based on incomplete data.

So who's opinion is worth more, the guy who actually did a thing or the guy who read about it?

in my eyes, neither is worth more, because both are tainted. even if the guy you're referring to did actually "do the thing" as you have, his opinion would be colored by his predisposition that it should sound identical.

it is certainly all opinion, but you can form an opinion when you participate in a double-blind test that is based strictly on the sound and not on other psychological factors. that would be worth more than either of the options you mentioned.

--kevin--
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post #98 of 208 Old 11-26-2007, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by toon12 View Post

So your receilver shows DD and DTS for those tracks, and just multi-channel in for the advanced audio tracks?

Correct.
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post #99 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by lowenbotten View Post

Correct.

ok, will have to try. I had my PS3 set to PCM, thinking that otherwise it wouldn't decode the advanced audio tracks.
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post #100 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 07:50 AM
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The PS3 does not bitstream any of the advanced audio tracks so you might as well leave it on PCM. The player will decode it and send it to your receiver LPCM so it shows Multi channel on it. Just hit your display button when the movie begins and it will tell you the audio package selected.
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post #101 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bases1616 View Post

The PS3 does not bitstream any of the advanced audio tracks so you might as well leave it on PCM. The player will decode it and send it to your receiver LPCM so it shows Multi channel on it. Just hit your display button when the movie begins and it will tell you the audio package selected.

As explained above, you set it to bitstream so your receiver will decode DD and DTS. The PS3 will still decode the advanced audio. If you set the PS3 on PCM, then the PS3 will decode the advanced audio as well as regular DD and DTS.
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post #102 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowenbotten View Post

The HDMI audio setting in the PS3 is only to tell it what to do with DD and DTS tracks. If you set it to bitstream, it will output DD & DTS to a receiver. It will still decode the advanced audio in the PS3. I know this because that's how I have my PS3 set up. It's also explained online by Sony in their online PS3 manual.

Doesn't work that way anymore for TrueHD!

Since 1.8 or maybe 1.9, you MUST have HDMI set to PCM, or you won't get TrueHD decoding. It will pass the hidden lossy DD track.

Doesn't matter how you have it set for PCM tracks (no decoding required), but unless you have it set to PCM for TrueHD you are going to get lossy DD.

Unless they changed it back with 2.0 or 2.01 this is true. I haven't checked, and no one's claimed it so far.

It's very easy to tell. When you hit the display, the PS3 will tell you it's multichannel DD and 640 kbps if that's the rate if it's just playing the DD track, whereas if it's decoding the TrueHD track it will say "TrueHD" and you'll see the variable bitrate ranging in the Mbps.

Let me know if they really changed it back, since that's preferable to me (and makes sense if they're never going to allow bitstreaming advanced codecs).

I could probably leave mine at PCM now that most titles have a PCM or TrueHD track, but I still want my receiver to handle legacy codecs. A few early titles of mine have just DD or DTS, and obviously until we get DTS HD decoding those (Fox and Lionsgate titles) are just DTS tracks I'd rather let my receiver play with, especially for EX/ES flag purposes (though since I force it to 7.1 with PLIIx, this may be a moot issue).

Still it would probably be easier for me to remember to switch it to bitstream for those few titles, rather than the other way around. I already ended up watching one rental title (TMNT) in DD instead of TrueHD not realizing it had a TrueHD track, thanks to WB not having setup menus.

At least since that unfortunate firmware revision making the PS3 handle TrueHD in such a manner they also let you switch it on the fly with the triangle menu (A/V settings).

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post #103 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 08:45 AM
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Seems to work like that for me too. However I haven't done any firmware update since the BTB was messed up on 1.81 or so. However if DTS-MA arrives in a firmware then upgrade will happen.

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post #104 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

Doesn't work that way anymore for TrueHD!

Since 1.8 or maybe 1.9, you MUST have HDMI set to PCM, or you won't get TrueHD decoding. It will pass the hidden lossy DD track.

Doesn't matter how you have it set for PCM tracks (no decoding required), but unless you have it set to PCM for TrueHD you are going to get lossy DD.

Unless they changed it back with 2.0 or 2.01 this is true. I haven't checked, and no one's claimed it so far.

It's very easy to tell. When you hit the display, the PS3 will tell you it's multichannel DD and 640 kbps if that's the rate if it's just playing the DD track, whereas if it's decoding the TrueHD track it will say "TrueHD" and you'll see the variable bitrate ranging in the Mbps.

Let me know if they really changed it back, since that's preferable to me (and makes sense if they're never going to allow bitstreaming advanced codecs).

I could probably leave mine at PCM now that most titles have a PCM or TrueHD track, but I still want my receiver to handle legacy codecs. A few early titles of mine have just DD or DTS, and obviously until we get DTS HD decoding those (Fox and Lionsgate titles) are just DTS tracks I'd rather let my receiver play with, especially for EX/ES flag purposes (though since I force it to 7.1 with PLIIx, this may be a moot issue).

Still it would probably be easier for me to remember to switch it to bitstream for those few titles, rather than the other way around. I already ended up watching one rental title (TMNT) in DD instead of TrueHD not realizing it had a TrueHD track, thanks to WB not having setup menus.

At least since that unfortunate firmware revision making the PS3 handle TrueHD in such a manner they also let you switch it on the fly with the triangle menu (A/V settings).


Greetings,

It does it exactly as described above. The only thing I would add is that for uncompressed PCM tracks either setting will send the uncompressed data at full bitrate. For me I leave mine set to bitstream most of the time. The only time I change it to PCM is when I utilize the TrueHD audio tracks on the handful of discs in my collection that has it.


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post #105 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 12:08 PM
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Sony should really add separate setup options for legacy and advanced codecs, so that you'd never have to worry about switching them.

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post #106 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by placidman View Post

Greetings,

It does it exactly as described above. The only thing I would add is that for uncompressed PCM tracks either setting will send the uncompressed data at full bitrate. For me I leave mine set to bitstream most of the time. The only time I change it to PCM is when I utilize the TrueHD audio tracks on the handful of discs in my collection that has it.


Regards,

Yep me too, the people still getting TrueHD while on bitstream setting haven't gone past firmware 1.8x yet, because after that you have to switch over to LPCM to get it. I also leave it always on bitstream as what placidman said is true bitstream works for everything except TrueHD and probably won't work for future DTSHD-MA either. But the more you bitstream the happier you will be!

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post #107 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 04:46 PM
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I leave the PS3's HDMI output to PCM at all times. After very extensive comparisons, I came to the conclusion that I hear no difference between my receiver and my PS3 in terms of decoding legacy audio CODECs. Except for up-sampling PCM signals, my receiver treats PCM the same way in the signal path as it does bit-streams. Given these findings, it's optimal for me to just leave it that way and get the benefit of overlaid audio mixed-in.
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post #108 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kulims View Post

scientific double-blind test ?

that's kind of like double-secret probation.

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post #109 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 08:10 PM
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that's kind of like double-secret probation.

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post #110 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I leave the PS3's HDMI output to PCM at all times. After very extensive comparisons, I came to the conclusion that I hear no difference between my receiver and my PS3 in terms of decoding legacy audio CODECs. Except for up-sampling PCM signals, my receiver treats PCM the same way in the signal path as it does bit-streams. Given these findings, it's optimal for me to just leave it that way and get the benefit of overlaid audio mixed-in.

It has been confirmed though that the PS3 outputs PCM 4dB lower than bitstreams.

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post #111 of 208 Old 11-27-2007, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

It has been confirmed though that the PS3 outputs PCM 4dB lower than bitstreams.

Sure, there is a volume difference. This was my experience with the HD-A2 as well with DD tracks on SD DVDs. However, this doesn't detract from the actual audio quality. This is why volume matching is of utmost importance when comparing in-player and in-receiver decoding. The lack of volume matching may be the culprit as to why some find bit-steamed audio of the advanced CODECs to sound "better" than in-player decoding.

EDIT: I should add for the sake of clarity that the PCM output level of decoded DTS tracks seemed to match that of the bit-stream. For instance, I remember the levels being identical with the core 1.5 Mbps DTS track of Transporter 2. For some reason, it seemed that only DD tracks measured to be attenuated in volume.
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post #112 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 06:56 AM
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Confirmed, no bitstream for PS3: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=946095

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post #113 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 09:02 AM
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It looks like the OP of that thread asked for a wrong part number.
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post #114 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 09:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kulims View Post

It looks like the OP of that thread asked for a wrong part number.

No he asked about the correct PN, but the spec that someone linked was for the SiL1932 not SiL9132.

Again we need an official confirmation from Sony and SI regarding this issue and not some random email from tech support.

My take on the whole issue: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...8&postcount=50
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post #115 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 09:57 AM
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Meesa no care about bitstream. Bitstream bombad!! Meesa just wanna internal decoding. Okey day?

Sorry.

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post #116 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 09:58 AM
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Again we need an official confirmation from Sony and SI regarding this issue and not some random email from tech support.

Then when an engineer says it doesn't work we'll need confirmation from a engineer in the other company. Then a VP, then the CEOs. Months ago people who work with these chips said a 9134/9135 (transmitter/receiver) are needed for bitstream. As I mentioned in the other thread the special thing about this chip may be that it does NOT support bitstream so Sony could get the chips earlier when they were planning/building the PS3.

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post #117 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 10:01 AM
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doom for ps3
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post #118 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigW View Post

No he asked about the correct PN, but the spec that someone linked was for the SiL1932 not SiL9132.

Again we need an official confirmation from Sony and SI regarding this issue and not some random email from tech support.

My take on the whole issue: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...8&postcount=50


Opps. I'm sorry the other thread OP. Thanks CraigW.
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post #119 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Then when an engineer says it doesn't work we'll need confirmation from a engineer in the other company. Then a VP, then the CEOs. Months ago people who work with these chips said a 9134/9135 (transmitter/receiver) are needed for bitstream. As I mentioned in the other thread the special thing about this chip may be that it does NOT support bitstream so Sony could get the chips earlier when they were planning/building the PS3.

larry

All we know is "Michael" said it doesn't. Somehow this "Michael" decided to let the cat out of the bag to the OP when numerous others have tried for months now to get an answer from Silicon Image. Yeah, right. I could say I received an email from an Engineer that designed the chip who says it CAN do it, would you believe me? Just because I said so?

You may be right, it may be a rushed chip for Sony that does not include the capability. But at the same time, it could be a capable chip specifically designed for Sony, which would be why they would say you need a 9134. No other device on the market uses the 9132, and you cannot even purchase the 9132 from Silicon Image. Sounds like a logical reason to tell people you need a 9134 for this capability.

Who the hell knows at this point, but to call that thread "confirmation" is bull.
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post #120 of 208 Old 11-28-2007, 01:51 PM
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You can believe what you want to believe. I'm leaning that it won't happen because a) People who work with these chips claim 9134, b) why hasn't bitstreaming been done yet? How hard can it be to read bits from the disc and send them over HDMI with the video (given all the other things the PS3 can do with software)? [and maybe c) game consoles don't need it. Don't forget, the PS3 originally was Sony's play to stay on top of the game console world. 10bit RGB could be great for games.]

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