Samsung BDP1200 Master/Owner's Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

While I am interested in seeing this player in action it can't be any better than the Sony for video quality. The Sony tests perfectly as a BD player. Full resolution for luma and chroma, no CUE, no pixel cropping, no clipping. You can't improve on it via HDMI.

I wonder if the Samsung is a true 24p output or if they are using the Reon chip. I don't konw if it has a bypass or not. Will have to look into it.

way to go Kris! keep us posted!
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post #32 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 08:14 PM
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I am interested to see how it looks as well. My store got one yesterday but I already had it on hold for a customer with a 1000 that went defective. Won't get to test it until later this week when I get another one in.

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post #33 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

While I am interested in seeing this player in action it can't be any better than the Sony for video quality. The Sony tests perfectly as a BD player. Full resolution for luma and chroma, no CUE, no pixel cropping, no clipping. You can't improve on it via HDMI.

I wonder if the Samsung is a true 24p output or if they are using the Reon chip. I don't konw if it has a bypass or not. Will have to look into it.

Kris,

Aside from the black and white clipping, does the PS3 match the Sony for video quality?

Also, does the Sony do TrueHD via analog outputs?

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post #34 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 08:31 PM
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Everyone who has stated to test 1080p/24hz have tv's that output maximum 1080p/60hz. Is it just me or has everyone not noticed that? or does film mode mean they are running it at 1080p/60hz and are using the film mode option to do the 3:2 pulldown?
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post #35 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Rur
I see no visual "jerk" at each chapter point. My unit seems fine and I have tried several dvd's.

Mark
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post #36 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Kris,


Also, does the Sony do TrueHD via analog outputs?

Which Sony, the 300? It comes with a True HD decoder built in?

No animals were harmed in the creation of this sentence.
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post #37 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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First off let me say I have three Sony BDPS1 players and this Samsung BDP1200 and when compared to the Sony it shows a good picture improvement over the Sony with commercial blu ray disks and When comparing disks that we author BDMV the difference startling like night and day. And BDAV forget it the Sony does not support. Sony amazes me and all of these disks were authored with there blu print authoring software. Time will tell if Sony gets there act together with there next player. Saying that there is no way the Samsung could be better than the Sony is completely ridiculous. There is no way on paper you are going to be able to tell which one is better. You have to test them and that is what I did.

Mark
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post #38 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 10:09 PM
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Just got the Samsung BD-P1200 today. It replaced a new Sony BDP-S1 that could not keep a 1080i HDMI signal properly synced with my Sony VPL-HS20 projector. The new Samsung does not have this problem. I'm running the HDMI into a Monoprice HDMI switch, and then on to my projector. My projector will not do 1080p so I have no data on the 1080p features of this player.

So far, PQ is outstanding in both component and HDMI modes. Power-up and disc load time are a bit slow. Not terrible. But if you're used to faster load times this may be annoying.

Audio: I have a Pioneer VSX-49tx receiver - which does not have HDMI switching - but can decode DD and DTS up to 192KHz over optical or coax. I set up the Samsung to send optical audio into the receiver, although digital coax is also provided with this player. I have the Samsung audio set to use "bitstream" audio - which passes compressed Dolby Digital and DTS to my receiver for decoding. This works great. Sound is rich and full. The other audio choice is "PCM" which is recommended in the manual only for receivers that cannot decode DD or DTS.

Also, it seems that the player can pass the "uncompressed" soundtracks of recent Blu-Ray discs to my receiver over the optical audio cable, but my receiver doesn't appear to know quite what to do with it. When confronted with the "uncompressed" soundtrack my receiver automatically resorts to using Dolby Pro Logic II. I'm not quite sure why this is. The Sony BDP-S1 could send the uncompressed soundtracks to my receiver - and the receiver would clearly recognize these signals as DD or DTS. Not sure what is going on with the Samsung - if this is a limitation - or if I've set up something incorrectly. Perhaps when selecting the uncompressed track, the Samsung is converting it to 2-channel PCM and that is what my receiver is seeing. I hope there is a way to get around this problem - as it would be great if I could use the uncompressed tracks.

I also played a DVD over component video. It looked very nice. I did not spend a lot of time here - but it looked very watchable. And, I played a CD-R audio disc - something the Sony cannot do. CD audio sounded awesome - with the receiver getting a rock solid optical digital signal for it to decode.

Finally, when playing Blu-Ray at 1080i HDMI - the most annoying thing I've run across is that when I step thru the audio soundtracks on a Blu-Ray disc - I keep getting this pop-up message box telling me: "HDMI Audio Not Supported." It stays on the screen for about 10 seconds. Not sure how to turn this warning off. I'm not attempting, nor can I make use of, any HDMI audio in my current setup. Perhaps, the Blu-Ray player is complaining about my HDMI switch device, or my projector as not supporting HDMI audio - which is completely true - but I don't need the player to tell me that repeatedly. If someone knows how to turn this warning message off, please post in this thread.

If I can resolve the issues I have: 1) using uncompressed audio, and 2) the popup warning message - then I would say that this a very capable multiformat player. Of course, I've only used it for a few hours - so there is likely more to discover at this point.

Regards,
Michael Bishop
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post #39 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 10:19 PM
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Thanks for your reviews, guys. I especially look forward to Kris' report on the relative 1080p output quality compared to the Pioneer and Sony, as well as the DVD output quality relative to the top-end Toshiba HD-XA2 and Denon 3930ci.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bishop View Post

Also, it seems that the player can pass the "uncompressed" soundtracks of recent Blu-Ray discs to my receiver over the optical audio cable, but my receiver doesn't appear to know quite what to do with it. When confronted with the "uncompressed" soundtrack my receiver automatically resorts to using Dolby Pro Logic II. I'm not quite sure why this is.

The uncompressed audio tracks are intended for use with HDMI and multichannel analog output.

The 15-year-old CE implementations of digital optical and SPDIF do not support uncompressed, multichannel audio. The most you will ever get from optical / SPDIF in a consumer device is PCM 2.0. Every Blu-ray player, now and in the future, will only output stereo (2.0) LPCM over optical / coax, due to the way those connections are implemented. If you just want to experience uncompressed audio, you can use the 5.1 analog output connections on the Samsung. If you want to experience uncompressed multichannel audio, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD MA, you must buy a new A/V receiver with HDMI 1.3.

[Some other BD players will decode TrueHD for output as multichannel LPCM over HDMI 1.1.]

Since you've got the Samsung BD-P1200 with HDMI 1.3, I would suggest one of the upcoming HDMI 1.3 receivers with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding, like these from Denon coming in late June.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bishop View Post

The Sony BDP-S1 could send the uncompressed soundtracks to my receiver - and the receiver would clearly recognize these signals as DD or DTS. Not sure what is going on with the Samsung - if this is a limitation - or if I've set up something incorrectly. Perhaps when selecting the uncompressed track, the Samsung is converting it to 2-channel PCM and that is what my receiver is seeing. I hope there is a way to get around this problem - as it would be great if I could use the uncompressed tracks

The Sony doesn't send uncompressed tracks over optical as DD / DTS. All but a few Blu-ray disks feature a Dolby Digital or DTS track for backward compatibility, and that is what Sony outputs through optical / coax. The Samsung will do the same, if you select those tracks, but it doesn't force that on you.
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post #40 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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The other note is on my Samsung 5296 LCD this player outputs 1920x1080P @24Hz. When I press the info button on the 5296 remote this is what it says true 1080P 24P. With my SonyBDPS1 it displays 1920x1080P @60Hz

Good job Samsung you guys are ahead of the game.

Mark
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post #41 of 6049 Old 04-01-2007, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

The other note is on my Samsung 5296 LCD this player outputs 1920x1080P @24Hz. When I press the info button on the 5296 remote this is what it says true 1080P 24P. With my SonyBDPS1 it displays 1920x1080P @60Hz

Good job Samsung you guys are ahead of the game.

Can you test to see if 1080p24 mode is still available when playing DVDs?
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post #42 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

While I am interested in seeing this player in action it can't be any better than the Sony for video quality. The Sony tests perfectly as a BD player. Full resolution for luma and chroma, no CUE, no pixel cropping, no clipping. You can't improve on it via HDMI.

With DVD players MPEG2 decoders varied in image quality. Some showed more mosquito noise than others. Different 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 upconverting algorithms were used etc. Why should that be different in HD land? The source is still 4:2:0 (although progressive now) and the decoder still outputs 4:2:2, as far as I know. I think there's still potential for some differences in decoding performance. E.g. are you using Lanczos or Mitchell or something else for upscaling the chroma information? How much bitdepth is the decoder using internally to avoid little rounding/clipoff problems during decoding? Etc etc...
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post #43 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post


The Sony doesn't send uncompressed tracks over optical as DD / DTS. All but a few Blu-ray disks feature a Dolby Digital or DTS track for backward compatibility, and that is what Sony outputs through optical / coax. The Samsung will do the same, if you select those tracks, but it doesn't force that on you.

Thanks for clarifying that. Perhaps the Sony is auto-selecting compressed DD / DTS for optical output - even though the user has selected "uncompressed" - whereas the Samsung is outputing PCM 2.0 stereo over optical when the user selects "uncompressed".

Eventually - I'll get a new receiver that can decode the new audio formats - but the next piece of equipment will likely be a new projector that can do 1080p - as I think that will offer the biggest improvement in my theater. Then an HDMI 1.3 receiver.

Regards,
Michael Bishop
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post #44 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Which Sony, the 300? It comes with a True HD decoder built in?

No, the current Sony Blu-ray player with analog (the new model will not have analog).

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post #45 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Thanks for your reviews, guys. I especially look forward to Kris' report on the relative 1080p output quality compared to the Pioneer and Sony, as well as the DVD output quality relative to the top-end Toshiba HD-XA2 and Denon 3930ci.

The uncompressed audio tracks are intended for use with HDMI and multichannel analog output.

The 15-year-old CE implementations of digital optical and SPDIF do not support uncompressed, multichannel audio. The most you will ever get from optical / SPDIF in a consumer device is PCM 2.0. Every Blu-ray player, now and in the future, will only output stereo (2.0) LPCM over optical / coax, due to the way those connections are implemented. If you just want to experience uncompressed audio, you can use the 5.1 analog output connections on the Samsung. If you want to experience uncompressed multichannel audio, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD MA, you must buy a new A/V receiver with HDMI 1.3.

[Some other BD players will decode TrueHD for output as multichannel LPCM over HDMI 1.1.]

Since you've got the Samsung BD-P1200 with HDMI 1.3, I would suggest one of the upcoming HDMI 1.3 receivers with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding, like these from Denon coming in late June.

The Sony doesn't send uncompressed tracks over optical as DD / DTS. All but a few Blu-ray disks feature a Dolby Digital or DTS track for backward compatibility, and that is what Sony outputs through optical / coax. The Samsung will do the same, if you select those tracks, but it doesn't force that on you.


Which BD players will decode TrueHD for output as multichannel LPCM over HDMI 1.1?
I would like to have the same capability as the Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player.
Thanks.
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post #46 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Which BD players will decode TrueHD for output as multichannel LPCM over HDMI 1.1?
I would like to have the same capability as the Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player.
Thanks.

See here.
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post #47 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

I make my own bluray BD-R And BD-RE. and this player plays back both BDAV and BDMV SPECIFICATION perfectly with no skipping or glitches. This is something no other player can do right now. . By the way the quaility of BDMV is far superior to the Sony BDS1 and the ps3 when comparing BD-R AND BD-RE.


Mark

I tried a full project produced in DVDIt Pro HD (BDMV) and it WOULD NOT play in the Samsung 1200 (went to Circuit City) - I am able to play the same disc in the Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony BDPS-1 (with firmware upgrade), and on my computer with Power DVD Ultra. I was able to play a BDAV disc of the same project made in Cyberlink Power Producer, What software did you use to make the BDMV that played in the Samsung?
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post #48 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post


I think Sony even said that they plan to phase out PCM eventually by next year.

I asked that question to a Sony insider this weekend and he stated that there are no plans right now to stop supporting PCM.

Thanks to all who are posting information about this player. I have the BD-P1000 and have been very happy with that player, so it is good to hear that this player is a step-up. No built-in TrueHD decoder is a little frustrating, but the HDMI 1.3 allows you to output to a HDMI 1.3 receiver. As others have mentioned I do not see this as a big issue right now as there are few Blu-Ray movies with TrueHD tracks on them, while there are plenty that have PCM tracks.

If TrueHD tracks replace PCM tracks in the future (next 12-18 months or so), I will be purchasing a 1.3 receiver anyway...
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post #49 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:01 AM
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why would they stop pcm?? not like they are strained by disk space.
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post #50 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MSpeed6 View Post

why would they stop pcm?? not like they are strained by disk space.

Depand, how about a 2h30 movies at 30mbits AVC, with 3 Loseless track (Eng, French, Esp) + the Core track + Extra Material in HD etc etc...

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #51 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

Which BD players will decode TrueHD for output as multichannel LPCM over HDMI 1.1?
I would like to have the same capability as the Toshiba A2 HD-DVD player.
Thanks.

The PS3... right now.. The Panasonic is supposed to be able to do it later, but not right now

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #52 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muellerfilm
The other note is on my Samsung 5296 LCD this player outputs 1920x1080P @24Hz. When I press the info button on the 5296 remote this is what it says true 1080P 24P. With my SonyBDPS1 it displays 1920x1080P @60Hz

Good job Samsung you guys are ahead of the game.


The Samsung 5296 displays a maximum on 1080p/60hz, so how can you use 1080p/24hz from the samsung?? Or does it let you choose an 1080p/24hz film mode option and just displays the words on the screen while the reon is doing the 3:2 pull down to 1080p/60hz?

It just boggles my mind because the sony only let you display 1080p/60hz because thats the maximum refresh rate of the Samsung 5296. So why does the samsung bd-p1200 let you display 1080p/24hz and the other blu ray players can't?

Some one please fill me in>>> I am so curious as to why or what is happening in the process.

Thank you you for any findings that may help.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Johnny
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post #53 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:56 AM
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It would be very interesting if someone could try out the 5.1 analog audio outputs on the Samsung BD-P1200 and report back on its ability to handle the uncompressed audio tracks on Blu-Ray discs. I'm particularly interested in how it handles bass (LFE), and speaker distances.

Currently my receiver (Pioneer VSX-49tx) has only one set of 5.1 analog inputs and those are presently dedicated to my Denon DVD-3910 player which, in addition to DVD, can play SACD and DVD-Audio - thru the 5.1 analog connection to my receiver.

I suppose one possibility for me would be to get a 5.1 analog switch so that I could choose between my Denon DVD player or the Samsung Blu-Ray, and get 5.1 analog audio from both - by using the switch.

Regards,
Michael Bishop
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post #54 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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When playing back a dvd the info button says 1920x1080P@60HZ. Johnny I think the 5296 is really showing 1920x1080P @ 24Hz. The picture looks so good. I turned off the 24fps mode off and compared to Sony BDPS1 and the picture looked a little better with the Samsung unit. With 24fps mode switched on on both units thats when the Samsung really outshined the Sony.Info button on the 5296 with the Sony Says 1920x1080P@60HZ in its 24 FPS mode and with the Samung it says 1920x1080P @ 24Hz. By the way with the Sony BDPS1 can detect no difference in the picture from turning on the 24fps mode. Also inthe menu setup there is a way turn off hdmi audio not supported message. In the menu setup select screen message off.

Mark


Mark
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post #55 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyspikes85 View Post

The Samsung 5296 displays a maximum on 1080p/60hz, so how can you use 1080p/24hz from the samsung?? Or does it let you choose an 1080p/24hz film mode option and just displays the words on the screen while the reon is doing the 3:2 pull down to 1080p/60hz?

A number of newer displays accept 1080p24, but they perform pull-down to display it on the screen as 1080p60. On a Blu-ray player like the Sony and Pioneer, there is zero, zilch, nada benefit to using 1080p24 output if your display is just going to display it on the screen at 1080p60.

You only benefit from 1080p24 output if the display can display it at a multiple of 24, i.e. 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, or 120Hz. Very few displays on the market do this. I know for a fact that his Samsung LCD does not.

There is one caveat to this. We don't know how the Samsung produces its 1080p24 output. Does the Broadcom decoder in the Samsung output 1080p24 directly? Or does it output 1080i60 to the Silicon Optix HQV, which then perform inverse telecine to produce 1080p24 and 1080p60 output? If the decoder produces 1080p24 directly, and the HQV chip is used for pull-down and DVD playback, then it is possible that there might be some very, very, very slight benefit to outputting 1080p24 rather than 1080p60.
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post #56 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 10:57 AM
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I just got off the phone with a samsung representative. He told me the samung bd-p1200 is 1080p/60hz and can not display 1080p/24hz natively.

I called back and got another rep that said the exact same thing.

I am even more confused now!
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post #57 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoohki View Post

The PS3... right now.. The Panasonic is supposed to be able to do it later, but not right now

Isn't the Sony also supposed to get a F/W updat to support TrueHD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyspikes85 View Post

I just got off the phone with a samsung representative. He told me the samung bd-p1200 is 1080p/60hz and can not display 1080p/24hz natively.

I called back and got another rep that said the exact same thing.

I am even more confused now!

Alright, what is going on here? Is somebody playing an April fool's joke? Any other Samsung owners in here that can tell us about this player?

PSN ID: Ass
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post #58 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Kris,

Aside from the black and white clipping, does the PS3 match the Sony for video quality?

Also, does the Sony do TrueHD via analog outputs?

Couldn't tell you as of right now because it won't play back my test disc which is a BD-RE. Stacey Spears has done testing on it though and said everything is equal with the exception of head/toe room.

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First off let me say I have three Sony BDPS1 players and this Samsung BDP1200 and when compared to the Sony it shows a good picture improvement over the Sony with commercial blu ray disks and When comparing disks that we author BDMV the difference startling like night and day. And BDAV forget it the Sony does not support. Sony amazes me and all of these disks were authored with there blu print authoring software. Time will tell if Sony gets there act together with there next player. Saying that there is no way the Samsung could be better than the Sony is completely ridiculous. There is no way on paper you are going to be able to tell which one is better. You have to test them and that is what I did.

Sorry but I disagree. Subjectively you are saying you see an improvement. What are you using to test with? The Sony can fully resolve all the chroma and luma info, its levels are correct, it retains the full dynamic range, and it can output 24p right off the disc. There is nothing to improve upon from a video standpoint. Objective testing will tell you quite early what can and can't be improved upon. I can't say if the Samsung is nice looking because I haven't tested it, but I can tell if the Sony could be improved upon via HDMI, and right now it can't.

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The other note is on my Samsung 5296 LCD this player outputs 1920x1080P @24Hz. When I press the info button on the 5296 remote this is what it says true 1080P 24P. With my SonyBDPS1 it displays 1920x1080P @60Hz

Good job Samsung you guys are ahead of the game.

This sounds like an issue with your displays EDID info. The Sony will output 1080p24 just fine. I can confirm it with two different video processors and my projector (Marantz VP11S1) which will accept a 1080p24 input signal and display it at 1080p48. Aside from judder though, THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO 1080p24 over 1080p60. You just lose SOME of the jerkiness. Film at 24fps still has plenty of jerkiness to it.

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With DVD players MPEG2 decoders varied in image quality. Some showed more mosquito noise than others. Different 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 upconverting algorithms were used etc. Why should that be different in HD land? The source is still 4:2:0 (although progressive now) and the decoder still outputs 4:2:2, as far as I know. I think there's still potential for some differences in decoding performance. E.g. are you using Lanczos or Mitchell or something else for upscaling the chroma information? How much bitdepth is the decoder using internally to avoid little rounding/clipoff problems during decoding? Etc etc...

Which is exactly why I tested to see if chroma was upsampled CORRECTLY and that the player retains the full resolution of the chroma signal. The Sony does all of this. Maybe the Samsung isn't and that would make the image "different" and he prefers the Samsung. It happens all the time.



Also, the Sony BDP-S1 does not support Dolby TrueHD via any output and from my sources never will. THERE ARE NO PLANS TO SUPPORT ANY OTHER AUDIO CODECS WITH THE BDPS-S1 was what I was told (from people that would know). The new Sony 300 model will be a rebadge Samsung, though I don't know which one. It is not a redesign of the S1.

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post #59 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jules343 View Post

Isn't the Sony also supposed to get a F/W updat to support TrueHD?

Alright, what is going on here? Is somebody playing an April fool's joke? Any other Samsung owners in here that can tell us about this player?

Broadcom only makes two high def decoder chips, the BCM7412, and the BCM7440, neither output 1080p24. BFDTV is correct, the decoder outputs 1080i60 and the HQV chip deinterlaces and then outputs in the selected format, which in this case also includes 1080p24.
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So if the Reon is doing the conversion to 1080p24 it will be interesting to see how well it can hold a 2-3 lock. DVDO and Gennum have had a hell of a time on this. DVDO just did some new modes on the VP50 just so they could do this without issues.

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