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post #61 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 02:49 PM
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It seems to me even if it could hold 2-3 fairly well it has the potential for artifacts with the deinterlacing step. And no advanced audio codecs is an even bigger issue.

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post #62 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

So if the Reon is doing the conversion to 1080p24 it will be interesting to see how well it can hold a 2-3 lock. DVDO and Gennum have had a hell of a time on this. DVDO just did some new modes on the VP50 just so they could do this without issues.

The Toshiba HD-XA2 uses the Reon chip also, though I don't know what decoder it uses. I have seen one review that rated it's deinterlacing performance pretty highly. Whether the performance there can be applied to the the Samsung remains to be seen, but it is encouraging.
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post #63 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt835 View Post

The Toshiba HD-XA2 uses the Reon chip also, though I don't know what decoder it uses. I have seen one review that rated it's deinterlacing performance pretty highly. Whether the performance there can be applied to the the Samsung remains to be seen, but it is encouraging.

I probably wrote the review

Holding cadence for regular 60hz playback is simple, converting it to 24hz seems to be another task altogether.

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post #64 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry but I disagree. Subjectively you are saying you see an improvement. What are you using to test with? The Sony can fully resolve all the chroma and luma info, its levels are correct, it retains the full dynamic range, and it can output 24p right off the disc. There is nothing to improve upon from a video standpoint. Objective testing will tell you quite early what can and can't be improved upon. I can't say if the Samsung is nice looking because I haven't tested it, but I can tell if the Sony could be improved upon via HDMI, and right now it can't.

[b]Sorry I disagree with you about the picture quality on Samsung BDP1200 compared to the Sony BDPS1. The picture quality on the Samsung is by far better. It just is. Get Samsung 5296D and a Samsung BDP1200 and then you will see why I am praising it. Sorry but without the hardware in your hands what you say means very little. Its end result, what you see and nothing else.

QUOTE:
This sounds like an issue with your displays EDID info. The Sony will output 1080p24 just fine. I can confirm it with two different video processors and my projector (Marantz VP11S1) which will accept a 1080p24 input signal and display it at 1080p48. Aside from judder though, THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO 1080p24 over 1080p60. You just lose SOME of the jerkiness. Film at 24fps still has plenty of jerkiness to it.

Sorry to disagree with you but with my setup It looks better.THERE IS A BENEFIT TO 1080P 24FPS OVER 1080P 60. SORRY BUT YOU ARE VERY WRONG.
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post #65 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

Quote:
Sorry to disagree with you but with my setup It looks better.THERE IS A BENEFIT TO 1080P 24FPS OVER 1080P 60. SORRY BUT YOU ARE VERY WRONG.

What you are not getting is that it is not
1080p24>1080p24

Between that it is 1080i60, not 1080p24 right off the disc like the Sony.

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post #66 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bishop View Post

It would be very interesting if someone could try out the 5.1 analog audio outputs on the Samsung BD-P1200 and report back on its ability to handle the uncompressed audio tracks on Blu-Ray discs. I'm particularly interested in how it handles bass (LFE), and speaker distances.

Currently my receiver (Pioneer VSX-49tx) has only one set of 5.1 analog inputs and those are presently dedicated to my Denon DVD-3910 player which, in addition to DVD, can play SACD and DVD-Audio - thru the 5.1 analog connection to my receiver.

I suppose one possibility for me would be to get a 5.1 analog switch so that I could choose between my Denon DVD player or the Samsung Blu-Ray, and get 5.1 analog audio from both - by using the switch.



Michael....why not buy some " Y " connectors ? Hook them up to the Pioneer, then attach each of the speaker cables from your BP-P1200 and Denon dvd player to the " Y " connector. Just make sure you don't have the Denon AND the Samsung ON AT THE SAME TIME

ALSO...Michael...Since I have a Pioneer Elite VSX 45TX, I'm very intrested in how yours handles the LFE since I'm seriously considering the Samsung BD-P1200 also. Meaning I want to know how the Pioneer handles the LFE on the analog 5.1. Maybe....just for now to try it, un-hook the Denon and plug in the Samsung....pretty please I plan on hooking up by both 5.1 ( using "Y " cables for my dvd-audio discs ) and the digital cable.
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post #67 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think what you are not getting is that it is 1920x1080
p @24Hz. End of story. Like it or not it is. Get a Samsung 5296 and a Samsung BDP1200 and test it. You can see it in the picture it looks outstanding. Samsung did a great job with this new player. I really like Sony but they really droped the ball with not supporting BDAV for there latest player and leaving everyone who has there Blu ray burner with the software bundled with the unit with no support with there own BDPS1. Also the performance with there BDMV has been not good with the unit not playing back BDMV disks sometimes.
I hope they get there act together with there next player. I just love sony and we have large investment there products. I have put over 100 BD-r and BD-re disks in the Samsung and have had not one fail.

Mark
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post #68 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

The other note is on my Samsung 5296 LCD this player outputs 1920x1080P @24Hz. When I press the info button on the 5296 remote this is what it says true 1080P 24P. With my SonyBDPS1 it displays 1920x1080P @60Hz

Good job Samsung you guys are ahead of the game.

Mark

You must not have had 24hz turned on with the BDP-S1. My Sony shows 1080p/24.


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post #69 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

Well, I think what you are not getting is that it is 1920x1080
p @24Hz. End of story. Like it or not it is. Get a Samsung 5296 and a Samsung BDP1200 and test it. You can see it in the picture it looks outstanding. Samsung did a great job with this new player. I really like Sony but they really droped the ball with not supporting BDAV for there latest player and leaving everyone who has there Blu ray burner with the software bundled with the unit with no support with there own BDPS1. Also the performance with there BDMV has been not good with the unit not playing back BDMV disks sometimes.
I hope they get there act together with there next player. I just love sony and we have large investment there products. I have put over 100 BD-r and BD-re disks in the Samsung and have had not one fail.

Mark

are you even reading what everyone else is posting?

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post #70 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

are you even reading what everyone else is posting?

Well, it's tough to see once you have already made your purchase. The person he says is "very wrong" is one of the world's authorities. One would do well to read his website, then read it again.

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post #71 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 05:42 PM
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Just wanted to ask if anyone had a chance to try out the standard DVD upconversion, and if so, how it might compare to the Toshiba model which also uses the Reon. Is it just as good, or perhaps even better?
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post #72 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 05:57 PM
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they should be identical since both share the same interlacer.
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post #73 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 06:20 PM
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I don't think I would go with Y-connectors for the 5.1 analog. That just seems too risky with possible multiple signals competing on the same circuit. I think instead, I will buy a 4-1 component video switcher from Monoprice. They have them for about $34 dollars. This switcher should double as a 5.1 analog audio switcher - if they implemented it as a passive unit - which for the price - seems like they would.

As for connecting up the Samsung BD-P1200 directly to my Pioneer VSX-49tx via 5.1 analog audio - I've done that. For now, I just moved the cables from the Denon DVD player to the Samsung. Now I can listen to the "uncompressed" soundtrack on Blu-Ray discs like "Casino Royale" and "Into The Blue." As expected, it sounds fantastic - but I can't say that it necessarily sounds better than the compressed DD I was listening to previously via the optical SPDIF connector. The LFE on the 5.1 analog was very apparent and the Pioneer did a fine job of sending the low freqs to my 2 subwoofers.

There are a few things to consider about using 5.1 analog: First, it is uncompressed - so that's goodness. Second, I don't believe the Pioneer receiver makes any distance adjustments for the audio - which may be a problem. I'll have to do more A/B testing to determine if this is an issue. The Pioneer does apply level and equalization adjustments - if you choose the multi-channel input adjust mode - so that's good. Finally, the receiver has no way decoding rear channel information from the 5.1 analog surrounds - to get 6.1 or 7.1 sound - so the only thing the receiver knows how to do is to send the same signals that are going to the surrounds, to the rears. For movies, I think this is a real issue for folks with a 6.1 or 7.1 setup. When using the optical digital signal, the receiver can decode the rear channel information, and send it separately to the rears. In this case, the rears speakers are sharing the same signal - but it is a distinct channel from the surrounds. I think I will end up preferring the optical audio method over the 5.1 analog - but time will tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari fan View Post

Michael....why not buy some " Y " connectors ? Hook them up to the Pioneer, then attach each of the speaker cables from your BP-P1200 and Denon dvd player to the " Y " connector. Just make sure you don't have the Denon AND the Samsung ON AT THE SAME TIME

ALSO...Michael...Since I have a Pioneer Elite VSX 45TX, I'm very intrested in how yours handles the LFE since I'm seriously considering the Samsung BD-P1200 also. Meaning I want to know how the Pioneer handles the LFE on the analog 5.1. Maybe....just for now to try it, un-hook the Denon and plug in the Samsung....pretty please I plan on hooking up by both 5.1 ( using "Y " cables for my dvd-audio discs ) and the digital cable.


Regards,
Michael Bishop
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post #74 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, it's tough to see once you have already made your purchase. The person he says is "very wrong" is one of the world's authorities. One would do well to read his website, then read it again.


Well, I do not who he is but if he is as you say is one of the world's authorities. But to come left field and disagree the the Samsung BDP1200 could not be better than the Sony BDPS1 without testing it first.Well, that just does not sound right. You can do all the scientific paper testing on paper you want. Its the real world testing that matters and that is what I did. I own a post production house here in Hollywood Ca. And while I may be no expert in the scientific paper testing of these products or do I claim to be. I do how to do real world testing. I buy the products and test them out.

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post #75 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I probably wrote the review

Holding cadence for regular 60hz playback is simple, converting it to 24hz seems to be another task altogether.

Actually one of the few you didn't write, it came from Ultimate AV Mag's website.

You make a good point. The Toshiba, in fact, does not do 24hz at this time. The postive review was the Reon going from 1080i to 1080p60.
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post #76 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

It seems to me even if it could hold 2-3 fairly well it has the potential for artifacts with the deinterlacing step. And no advanced audio codecs is an even bigger issue.

I have to agree, any time another step is needed the potential exists for issues.
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Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

Well, I do not who he is but if he is as you say is one of the world's authorities. But to come left field and disagree the the Samsung BDP1200 could not be better than the Sony BDPS1 without testing it first.Well, that just does not sound right. You can do all the scientific paper testing on paper you want. Its the real world testing that matters and that is what I did. I own a post production house here in Hollywood Ca. And while I may be no expert in the scientific paper testing of these products or do I claim to be. I do how to do real world testing. I buy the products and test them out.

Mark

All that means is that it looks better in your eyes. It might even look better in the majority of people's eyes, but that will be determined once more people get to viewing BD's on it.

Also, can anyone confirm if his display accepts 1080p/24? I downloaded the manual and didn't see any mention of it. Not that it matters as 1080p/24 should only reduce judder not improve PQ for everything, at least from my basic understanding of it.

Anyway, all that matters is that you are happy with your purchase.

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post #77 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:22 PM
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No his display does not have 1080p/24hz capability. Like I said I talked to 2 samsung reps today and they both said the samsung bd-p1200 can not output 1080p/24hz natively.
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post #78 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnnyspikes85 View Post

No his display does not have 1080p/24hz capability. Like I said I talked to 2 samsung reps today and they both said the samsung bd-p1200 can not output 1080p/24hz natively.

I understand the player has to go from 1080/60 to 1080/24, I just wanted to make sure about the display's capabilities.

Thanks, for the answer.

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post #79 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Couldn't tell you as of right now because it won't play back my test disc which is a BD-RE. Stacey Spears has done testing on it though and said everything is equal with the exception of head/toe room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Kris,

Aside from the black and white clipping, does the PS3 match the Sony for video quality?

Would you all elaborate on the terms head/toe room and black and white clipping in reference to these players. I am a tech person so the short version will work.


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post #80 of 6049 Old 04-02-2007, 11:34 PM
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Can anyone verify if this player has a good 720p output for blu-ray?

Also, it would be good to have a comparion for regular dvd output between this player and Toshiba hdxa2. I know they have the same deinterlacer chip, but implementation migh be different.
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post #81 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt835 View Post

Broadcom only makes two high def decoder chips, the BCM7412, and the BCM7440, neither output 1080p24.

Tom McMahon (Broadcom) has stated in the Industry Insiders Thread long time ago that the Broadcom decoders *can* output 1080p24.
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post #82 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

With DVD players MPEG2 decoders varied in image quality. Some showed more mosquito noise than others. Different 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 upconverting algorithms were used etc. Why should that be different in HD land? The source is still 4:2:0 (although progressive now) and the decoder still outputs 4:2:2, as far as I know. I think there's still potential for some differences in decoding performance. E.g. are you using Lanczos or Mitchell or something else for upscaling the chroma information? How much bitdepth is the decoder using internally to avoid little rounding/clipoff problems during decoding? Etc etc...

Which is exactly why I tested to see if chroma was upsampled CORRECTLY and that the player retains the full resolution of the chroma signal. The Sony does all of this. Maybe the Samsung isn't and that would make the image "different" and he prefers the Samsung. It happens all the time.

You're missing my point. There are multiple "correct" ways to upsample chroma resolution. Mitchell upsampling looks a bit different compared to Lanczos upsampling compared to bilinear upsampling. But they are all correct and they all retain the full resolution of the chroma signal.

It's the same way with scaling algorithms. Many people claim Lumagen has the best upscaling algorithm. But is only the Lumagen algorithm correct and the VP50 algorithm is incorrect? No, they're both "correct", but still they look different.

In the same way chroma upsampling can look different, too. As a result you cannot state that it's impossible to improve upon a specific player only because the player is doing everything correctly. There may be a better way of doing everything correctly than the Sony is using.
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post #83 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

[And yes, unlike most HD-DVD titles, most Blu-ray titles are authored in basic HDMV and will output the TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstream over HDMI 1.3.]

bfdtv,

What does this mean? My XA2 is HDMI 1.3 and I would be a bit surprised if it could not pass the bitstream of the new audio codecs to a HDMI 1.3 AV receiver.

I thought HDMV is more of a scripting environment for disc interactivity. What would that have to do with the sound???

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post #84 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 07:43 AM
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Is there any missing hardware that would prevent True-HD decoding, or can this be added with a firmware update? I was considering this unit if it could decode True-HD and send it over HDMI to my Denon AVR-2807.

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post #85 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

bfdtv,

What does this mean? My XA2 is HDMI 1.3 and I would be a bit surprised if it could not pass the bitstream of the new audio codecs to a HDMI 1.3 AV receiver.

I thought HDMV is more of a scripting environment for disc interactivity. What would that have to do with the sound???

"Advanced" content authoring on HD-DVD defines that audio mixing be done inside the player. Hence, on those titles, HD-DVDs will not output those bitstreams to an external receiver for decoding.

It was never clear to me whether a manufacturer could design a HD-DVD player with the option to disable internal mixing and output those codecs to a HDMI 1.3 receiver, and still receive certification (for the HD-DVD logo).

No Blu-ray titles are authored in that way, because no standalone Blu-ray players support internal mixing. That feature is mandated with the 1.1 players after October 31, and at some point after that, we'll see the first Blu-ray titles to use it.

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post #86 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Would you all elaborate on the terms head/toe room and black and white clipping in reference to these players. I am a tech person so the short version will work.

Wendell,

I'm not Kris but I do play these in TV.

In case Kris doesn't return for a while I can speculate that he is referencing that the PS3 does not pass codes below 16 and above 235. As to the head/toe room he is possibly referencing the usage of these codes to aid in processing, by players that allow for it, to lessen rounding errors.

As you know this is more useful with CRT setups that exhibit black float though modern clamping circuits should ameliorate that. With a digital it is less so, though personally I prefer the ability to set my white level such that it has a soft clip (headroom).

It is moot as to whether the PS3 will ever be able to pass codes outside the 16 to 235 range.

ted
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post #87 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 01:51 PM
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Just ordered this from CC. Nobody else seems to have it yet.
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post #88 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muellerfilm View Post

I have been checking Circuit City online every day and yesterday they showed stock of the BDP 1200 at several stores so I ran down and picked one up.

Now for the review:

I have a Samsung 5296D 1080P LCD panel hooked up to HDMI for testing

I compared the PS3 the Sony BDPS1 and the Samsung BDP1000 all with the latest firmware and this unit by far has the best picture. Bright vivid colors rich blacks. I really prefer it over the other players. The picture really just looks significantly better than the other players. It just blows me away how good it looks. Disk load times are very quick and I have had no glitches playing back disks. This unit really feels like a generation two unit.
There are more settings on the player than the BDP1000. There is movie frame 24FS mode. There is a HDMI setup mode that has Anynet+ HDMI-CEC. There is a sharpness mode was set by default to off. There is a DVD noise reduction mode witch I turned on to low setting and it seemed to smooth out the picture on the Departed DVD that I tried. There is also system upgrade mode for upgrading the unit. There is an Ethernet port on the back.
Now here is the real selling point for me and many others. I make my own bluray BD-R And BD-RE. and this player plays back both BDAV and BDMV SPECIFICATION perfectly with no skipping or glitches. This is something no other player can do right now. . By the way the quaility of BDMV is far superior to the Sony BDS1 and the ps3 when comparing BD-R AND BD-RE.

Thank you Samsung for producing a truly state of the art player.


Update for testing purposes I had the 24FS mode activated and I just got asked how is the sound quality. Well useing bitstream out with a optical cable the volume on my Onkyo 7.1 seemed to be a little less powerful but the sound seemed to be sharper and more distinct. As if you could here more of the details, very impressive. Also the remote is very responsive and works very well. Upconverted look very good as well and you can control how they look with the DVD noise reduction feature.

Mark



A Samsung having a great picture? Sounds April Fools to me!!
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post #89 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 04:26 PM
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The other note is on my Samsung 5296 LCD this player outputs 1920x1080P @24Hz. When I press the info button on the 5296 remote this is what it says true 1080P 24P. With my SonyBDPS1 it displays 1920x1080P @60Hz

Good job Samsung you guys are ahead of the game.

Mark


this guy sounds like he works for samsung.lol.lol
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post #90 of 6049 Old 04-03-2007, 05:54 PM
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this guy sounds like he works for samsung.lol.lol

I thought this exact same thing when I first read this post...and still do
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