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Blu-ray Players

theforce8686's Avatar theforce8686
02:59 PM Liked: 10
post #91 of 157
04-15-2007 | Posts: 1,453
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I dont get the point of this thread? I bought it and have a great glitch free player and 124 great PQ and AQ movies to watch that are far superior to my SDs. Why wouldnt I buy into it?
ottscay's Avatar ottscay
04:03 PM Liked: 10
post #92 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Nothing could be further from the truth.

You really think so Ken? I have the utmost respect for you, but if BD maintains or extends it's current sales ratio lead as the number of disks sold increases this summer, you don't think Universal would even consider sitting up and taking notice? Or do you not think that the format war will be over the day Universal goes neutral?

Right now week over week if Disney or Fox were to go neutrall, they could increase their sales by about 1/3. If Universal were to go netural, they would increase their sales week over week by 200% (of course both would see an initial spike as the installed user base lept on the titles they had been denied thus far, but companies worry more about average revenue than the initial spike). Am I really wrong in saying that right now Blu Ray is the more likely format to emerge victorious (if either does)?

I'm not saying it's a done deal, or that HD DVD has lost, but do you really believe that "Nothing could be further than the truth"???

Of course even in the best of events for BD your current HD DVDs will still work (as will mine), and I'm sure there would be at least one more HD DVD player from Toshiba, and another year or more of releases from Universal (and maybe Warner), but it would be like Sony's support of Beta at that point.
Mark0's Avatar Mark0
04:24 PM Liked: 10
post #93 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottscay View Post

You really think so Ken? I have the utmost respect for you, but if BD maintains or extends it's current sales ratio lead as the number of disks sold increases this summer, you don't think Universal would even consider sitting up and taking notice? Or do you not think that the format war will be over the day Universal goes neutral?

Right now week over week if Disney or Fox were to go neutrall, they could increase their sales by about 1/3. If Universal were to go netural, they would increase their sales week over week by 200% (of course both would see an initial spike as the installed user base lept on the titles they had been denied thus far, but companies worry more about average revenue than the initial spike). Am I really wrong in saying that right now Blu Ray is the more likely format to emerge victorious (if either does)?

I'm not saying it's a done deal, or that HD DVD has lost, but do you really believe that "Nothing could be further than the truth"???

Of course even in the best of events for BD your current HD DVDs will still work (as will mine), and I'm sure there would be at least one more HD DVD player from Toshiba, and another year or more of releases from Universal (and maybe Warner), but it would be like Sony's support of Beta at that point.

I think you need a reality check.

HD DVD has got more passionate fans. AVS for one. I personally believe it's folks like us that make a HUGE impact on a war like this. Check out what's going on at Amazon. HD DVD has surged just from the folks here. It's simply amazing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=818991

I support both formats, but I hope HD DVD wins this war because it's better for consumers and movie fans.
JE3146's Avatar JE3146
04:41 PM Liked: 10
post #94 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post

I think you need a reality check.

HD DVD has got more passionate fans. AVS for one. I personally believe it's folks like us that make a HUGE impact on a war like this. Check out what's going on at Amazon. HD DVD has surged just from the folks here. It's simply amazing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=818991

I support both formats, but I hope HD DVD wins this war because it's better for consumers and movie fans.


Check the post again. There seemed to be a joint effort across multiple forums, not just this one.

While the majority seemed to have come from here, there was help from elseware...


Also take a look at it in retrospect. It took that much of an effort to catch up to and barely pass the BD purchases.... Of course in retrospect again, it showed how little the market is, to be swayed by such a fluke...

Either way you look at it.. take the results with a grain of salt..
JE3146's Avatar JE3146
04:43 PM Liked: 10
post #95 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogiehowser View Post

Blu Ray is written at 1 nanometer deep and HD-DVD is written at 6 nanometers deep. I think a BR DVD would have more problems with scratches than a HD-DVD.


Because of that fact, the spec for the discs required a harder surface than what was typically used.

HD-DVD doesn't require this, but Blu-ray does.
FatiusJeebs's Avatar FatiusJeebs
04:54 PM Liked: 10
post #96 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

I dont get the point of this thread? I bought it and have a great glitch free player and 124 great PQ and AQ movies to watch that are far superior to my SDs. Why wouldnt I buy into it?


I don't get it either. Why would someone buy blu-ray over hd-dvd? Truth is...there is no logical answer to this question.
AnthonyP's Avatar AnthonyP
04:55 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:


Blu Ray is written at 1 nanometer deep and HD-DVD is written at 6 nanometers deep. I think a BR DVD would have more problems with scratches than a HD-DVD.

no it is not. it is .1mm vs .6mm a nanometer 10-9m a mm is 10-3m (.001m) if you want it in nm then it is 100000 vs 600000

as to the scrathes, you are 100% wrong. BD has much less issues because BD has a scratch resistant hard coat while HD DVD is a bit worst then DVD because of the smaller pit size
vvha313's Avatar vvha313
04:56 PM Liked: 10
post #98 of 157
04-15-2007 | Posts: 43
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I thought the post by ottscay was pretty much on the mark. A small, hardcore group of passionate fans can't drive a format to success. We're not talking about supporting a rock band here. The format that wins out will eventually become the standard video format around the world. Unless dual format players end up becoming the affordable player of choice, mass adoption won't happen until after one of the two formats folds. For a major studio like Disney or Sony, the amount of sales they're missing out on by not selling HD DVD is miniscule right now. My point to all this is that the real power in deciding the format war sits in the hands of major corporations and movie studios. The masses will buy whatever is dictated to them by availability.
AnthonyP's Avatar AnthonyP
04:56 PM Liked: 10
post #99 of 157
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I did not read the posts in this thread (no time) but to answer the question

"Why buy Blue Ray over HD-DVD? "

you love to watch movies and you want them in HD
Ken H's Avatar Ken H
05:27 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottscay View Post

I'm not saying it's a done deal, or that HD DVD has lost, but do you really believe that "Nothing could be further than the truth"???

Yes. Just the fact Samsung announced dual format players alone should tell you something.

Neither format will be going anywhere for awhile, probably years.
TwinTurboZX's Avatar TwinTurboZX
05:31 PM Liked: 10
post #101 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post

I support both formats, but I hope HD DVD wins this war because it's better for consumers and movie fans.

HDDVD is no better for the consumer compared to Blu-ray. If in fact you are a movie fan then you would want your movies released on the best possible format which is Blu-ray not HDDVD.
cityscapex5's Avatar cityscapex5
06:23 PM Liked: 10
post #102 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

Blu-ray has developed an astounding sales lead over HD-DVD in just a matter of months. In a few recent weeks Blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD over 4 to 1.

Only Blu-ray offers superior image and sound quality, superior storage capacity, and the most movies to choose from (Fox, Sony, MGM, Disney, and Lionsgate are only available on Blu-ray Disc). You also get the satisfaction of knowing that you invested in a format that will be around for many, many years to come. There is only one format to choose if you want to invest in the winning format: Blu-ray Disc.


I just threw up a little in my mouth.....
nick2010's Avatar nick2010
06:31 PM Liked: 10
post #103 of 157
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Blu-ray Disc has more disc space (25 GB per layer instead of 15 GB on HD DVD) and higher maximum bit-rates for audio and video, but currently is more expensive. BD also has more companies supporting it, so it has the potential to have more titles available. (However, currently both formats have very few movies available, so this won't matter for a while.) I recommend that you choose the format that will have the movies you want in the future. (I chose BD for Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean, Spider-man, etc)
audiomixer's Avatar audiomixer
06:41 PM Liked: 11
post #104 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityscapex5 View Post

I just threw up a little in my mouth.....

Why...it's true. Those studios ARE NOT going to change. I work for them...I know!
TwinTurboZX's Avatar TwinTurboZX
08:08 PM Liked: 10
post #105 of 157
04-15-2007 | Posts: 1,020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cityscapex5 View Post

I just threw up a little in my mouth.....

Yes, the truth does that to you sometimes.
rfzarcher's Avatar rfzarcher
08:40 AM Liked: 10
post #106 of 157
04-16-2007 | Posts: 4
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Original post on this topic from DoogieHowser says, he has just purchased a 50inch Plasma. !!

Dude really if you can afford a 50inch Plasma, I'd say go for the full bang, get both players or a dual format player and have fun. :-)
TauRus's Avatar TauRus
09:30 AM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Doogie, here are my 2 cents.
1. Since you posted this in the BD forum, you're going to get more pro-BD answers (the BD vs. HD-DVD recommendations would be different if posted in the HD-DVD forum), so keep that in mind.
2. Picture quality of high def discs (BDs played in a BD player versus HD-DVDs played in an HD-DVD player) is equal, despite some of the rhetoric above. There is no advantage of one format over the other for PQ (for high def discs). That is not quite true for playing SD DVDs (see below).
3. The best upscaling player, for playing SD DVDs, is the Tosh AX2 HD-DVD player. The worst player for playing SD DVDs is the PS3 (if you go this route, I would recommend another DVD player for SD DVDs).
4. HD-DVD has a price advantage in terms of the players, although this could change down the road (but not anytime soon).
5. BD has a studio support advantage in terms of the number of studios with BD-only movies. However, there are movies only available in BD (Sony, Fox, and Disney), movies only available in HD-DVD (Universal), movies available in both high def formats (Warner and Paramount), and many movies available in neither format. The only way to know which movies are better FOR YOU is to look at amazon.com or netflix.com to see which movies that YOU want to see are available in which format. Based on my Netflix queue, it is an absolute wash for me! Also, studio support may change in the future (IMO, studios only supporting one format are leaving money on the table).
6. Bear in mind that more and more players will be coming out that play both formats. There is currently only one (by LG), which most do not recommend, but a Samsung dual-format player has been announced. More will likely come out later this year, so you may want to wait.
7. IMO, both formats are here for many years, despite the rhetoric above, so buy what you like.

I agree with most points above with the exception of point 3. BillP keeps religiously repeating his mantra that PS3 is a bad SD DVD player. Yes, I know that's what Kris said. But it does not mean that many PS3 owners who tried playing back SD DVD discs on PS3 are blind or not competent enough to tell a bad playback from a good one. I do have a dedicated SD DVD player, but after reading Kris's report about PS3 SD DVD playback I tried a number of DVD discs, both video and film based, on PS3 and cannot confirm that SD DVD playback is bad. It might not be class leading but is is not bad at all. I don't know, maybe BillP is on a personal mission to sway people away from PS3?
Another common cliche statement is that Toshiba HD player is the best upscaling player around. I have not seen any credible comparative analysis of that. As far as end user reports, I hear that Panasonic and Samsung's new player are upscaling SD DVDs perfectly.
PS3 is a very nice and fast player of both SD DVDs and Blu-Ray discs. To answer the OP's question directly - your choice of formats should be primarily based on the discs available in each format. Studio support at this point is the most important factor, and if you ask me I would agree with most folks in this forum that Blu-Ray is currently in the lead.
fa8362's Avatar fa8362
10:32 AM Liked: 10
post #108 of 157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark0 View Post

I think you need a reality check.

HD DVD has got more passionate fans. AVS for one. I personally believe it's folks like us that make a HUGE impact on a war like this. Check out what's going on at Amazon. HD DVD has surged just from the folks here. It's simply amazing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=818991

I support both formats, but I hope HD DVD wins this war because it's better for consumers and movie fans.

Unless HD-DVD supporters are planning on buying a disc every day forever, sales will revert back to 2:1 or greater in BD's favor.
CMRA's Avatar CMRA
10:58 AM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TauRus View Post

. But it does not mean that many PS3 owners who tried playing back SD DVD discs on PS3 are blind or not competent enough to tell a bad playback from a good one. I do have a dedicated SD DVD player, but after reading Kris's report about PS3 SD DVD playback I tried a number of DVD discs, both video and film based, on PS3 and cannot confirm that SD DVD playback is bad. It might not be class leading but is is not bad at all. I don't know, maybe BillP is on a personal mission to sway people away from PS3?
.

I concur. I have a Feb 2007 build (China) and SD playback is excellent via HDMI at 480p. When people make such claims, I often have to wonder if there is not a display device issue involved. I'm confident they are reporting the truth, as in BillP's case, however. They call'em the way they SEE them.

And, so do I.
doogiehowser's Avatar doogiehowser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinTurboZX View Post

HDDVD is no better for the consumer compared to Blu-ray. If in fact you are a movie fan then you would want your movies released on the best possible format which is Blu-ray not HDDVD.

Is it true that Blu Ray is all DRM'ed and has problems? Does Blu Ray support region codes, so people in the USA can't watch movies released in Europe or Asia? Is it true that HD-DVD is not DRM'ed and has no region codes so people can watch movies from anywhere without problems? 10% of my SD DVD purchases are imports which are not region 1.
BillP's Avatar BillP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TauRus View Post

I agree with most points above with the exception of point 3. BillP keeps religiously repeating his mantra that PS3 is a bad SD DVD player. Yes, I know that's what Kris said. But it does not mean that many PS3 owners who tried playing back SD DVD discs on PS3 are blind or not competent enough to tell a bad playback from a good one. I do have a dedicated SD DVD player, but after reading Kris's report about PS3 SD DVD playback I tried a number of DVD discs, both video and film based, on PS3 and cannot confirm that SD DVD playback is bad. It might not be class leading but is is not bad at all. I don't know, maybe BillP is on a personal mission to sway people away from PS3?
Another common cliche statement is that Toshiba HD player is the best upscaling player around. I have not seen any credible comparative analysis of that. As far as end user reports, I hear that Panasonic and Samsung's new player are upscaling SD DVDs perfectly.
PS3 is a very nice and fast player of both SD DVDs and Blu-Ray discs. To answer the OP's question directly - your choice of formats should be primarily based on the discs available in each format. Studio support at this point is the most important factor, and if you ask me I would agree with most folks in this forum that Blu-Ray is currently in the lead.

I can assure you that I am not on a personal mission, but am just trying to be as fair and balanced as possible so that people with legitimate questions can get all the facts to better make up their own mind. It could be very display dependent, but I stick with my assessment that the PS3 is a fantastic BD player (up there with the best) but a poor SD DVD player, based on numerous posts directly comparing it to good upscaling players, Kris' review, and seeing it in action for myself. To be fair, although the Tosh HD-DVD players do a better job with SD DVDs in terms of PQ, I'm not satisfied with them either due to a very obvious layer change (I'm sticking with my Denon 3910 for SD DVD, as well as SACD/DVD-A). My point with the PS3 is only that if you want a single player for both high def and SD needs, it would not be my top choice. You may agree or disagree, but it is a very reasonable recommendation given all we know about the player. On the other hand, if (like me) you are fine with a 2-player solution, one for high def and one for SD, then the PS3 is an excellent option, as is Tosh.
jwv651's Avatar jwv651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TauRus View Post

I agree with most points above with the exception of point 3. BillP keeps religiously repeating his mantra that PS3 is a bad SD DVD player. Yes, I know that's what Kris said. But it does not mean that many PS3 owners who tried playing back SD DVD discs on PS3 are blind or not competent enough to tell a bad playback from a good one.

Here from someone who owns a PS3, Oppo and a A2.

SD playback 1) of course being the best.

1) A2
2) Oppo
3) PS3

The PS3 really does suck with SD material.
CMRA's Avatar CMRA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

Here from someone who owns a PS3, Oppo and a A2.

SD playback 1) of course being the best.

1) A2
2) Oppo
3) PS3

The PS3 really does suck with SD material.

I have the 60GB version, and that may make ALL the difference. Who knows?
jwv651's Avatar jwv651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

I have the 60GB version, and that may make ALL the difference. Who knows?

A bigger hard drive has nothing to do with it...everything else is the exact same...that would make no sense whatsoever. I will go one better I did a side by side with my old POS Bravo D1...and still the ps3 just didn't look as good. No way to spin this thing the PS3 is a disappointment with SD. I wish it wasn't true...but it is!
BillP's Avatar BillP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

I have the 60GB version, and that may make ALL the difference. Who knows?

The PS3 does not handle film cadences correctly with SD DVDs (video-based materials are fine). That has nothing to do with the hard drive. A better explanation for all the conflicting reports is that movie watching in isolation looks decent no matter what you have. It's only when you do an A/B comparison that you notice the shortcomings. I didn't realize how bad my LiteOn DVD recorder was until I compared it to my 3910.
GBFreek's Avatar GBFreek
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post #116 of 157
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Best Advice to the OP:

WAIT....Do some research, read these forums...and....WAIT....then come back...and WAIT.

Unless you want a PS3 for at least occasional gaming (which I dont believe you do) go BD.

Otherwise wait on BD.

I cant even recco a HD DVD player due to the lack of support....so wait there as well.

I think in 6-8 months (xmas, etc), we will have a slightly better picture....but even then, it probably wont be clear. However, things will be a bit cheaper at the ver minimum.

Enjoy your SD DVD's for another 6 months and let this stuff sort itself out.

(I do own BluRay, as I have a PS3).
jwv651's Avatar jwv651
02:42 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFreek View Post

Best Advice to the OP:

WAIT....Do some research, read these forums...and....WAIT....then come back...and WAIT.

I think in 6-8 months (xmas, etc), we will have a slightly better picture....but even then, it probably wont be clear. However, things will be a bit cheaper at the ver minimum.

Enjoy your SD DVD's for another 6 months and let this stuff sort itself out.

(I do own BluRay, as I have a PS3).

Sometimes I wish I was still on the fence...But HD killed that feeling
Urza's Avatar Urza
03:04 PM Liked: 26
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For many reasons, I would say go neutral. One of the fun reasons is that it irritates BD fans
Slim GoodBooty's Avatar Slim GoodBooty
03:08 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBFreek View Post

Best Advice to the OP:

WAIT....Do some research, read these forums...and....WAIT....then come back...and WAIT.

Unless you want a PS3 for at least occasional gaming (which I dont believe you do) go BD.

Otherwise wait on BD.

I cant even recco a HD DVD player due to the lack of support....so wait there as well.

I think in 6-8 months (xmas, etc), we will have a slightly better picture....but even then, it probably wont be clear. However, things will be a bit cheaper at the ver minimum.

Enjoy your SD DVD's for another 6 months and let this stuff sort itself out.

(I do own BluRay, as I have a PS3).

Both formats will be very different in 6 months and I suspect that uniplayers will be more common as well. If someone has to do it now, they can get an A2 and a BD-P1000 pretty cheap.
TauRus's Avatar TauRus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I can assure you that I am not on a personal mission, but am just trying to be as fair and balanced as possible so that people with legitimate questions can get all the facts to better make up their own mind. It could be very display dependent, but I stick with my assessment that the PS3 is a fantastic BD player (up there with the best) but a poor SD DVD player, based on numerous posts directly comparing it to good upscaling players, Kris' review, and seeing it in action for myself. To be fair, although the Tosh HD-DVD players do a better job with SD DVDs in terms of PQ, I'm not satisfied with them either due to a very obvious layer change (I'm sticking with my Denon 3910 for SD DVD, as well as SACD/DVD-A). My point with the PS3 is only that if you want a single player for both high def and SD needs, it would not be my top choice. You may agree or disagree, but it is a very reasonable recommendation given all we know about the player. On the other hand, if (like me) you are fine with a 2-player solution, one for high def and one for SD, then the PS3 is an excellent option, as is Tosh.

BillP, I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion, it is just I noticed you repeatedly, tediously posting about PS3 SD playback in many different threads, to the point that I got the feeling you had some agenda against PS3.
Like I said above, I am not claiming PS3 is a top SD DVD player, but in my opinion its SD playback has been unjustly portrayed as very bad, when it is not.
Sorry, if I drew a wrong conclusion about you; unfortunately these days there are way too many "format neutral" posters here that keep only posting negative things about anything Blu-Ray, Sony, PS3, etc.

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