Originally Posted by Quidam67
The issue of frame-rate incompatibility between film and TV (and the various methods used to solve it) are fasciniating to me. Living in a PAL region (New Zealand) I can't recall witnessing judder but a few nights ago I rented "The Queen" on DVD and the judder was horrific. I'm struggling to understand why. The film was PAL, and the DVD player was a PAL/NTSC Progressive scan Pioneer. As a test, I played the movie on my modded xbox (which does 480p and 720p/1080i upscaling) and the judder was gone, so I suspect this movie was some sort of sloppy conversion from an NTSC master -but regardless, if the judder I witnessed is what NTSC people have to put up with I'm thanking my lucky stars I'm in a PAL region.
Don't think this is the case.
The Queen was made in the UK - and I would expect any DVD release in a 50Hz region (Europe, Aus/NZ etc.) to have been a 2:2 pulldown 576/50i with 4% speed-up. It would be very unlikely for a 3:2 480/60i master to have been used and then converted via a standard video standards converter to 576/50i for a DVD release. If for some bizarre reason a 3:2 480/60i master had been used a 576/48i DEFT conversion (horribly known as "Slow PAL" by some) would be expected to have been used to remove the 3:2 judder and give 2:2 transfer.
Not sure what is causing the judder with your set-up - but I'd be surprised if it was 3:2 pulldown related.
Have you tried playing the disc on a regular, simple DVD player, or looked at the non-progressive output of your player?
As was previously mentioned, modern TV's seem to be able to handle all sorts of formats. Most certainly, both my Plasma's (Panasonic and Samsung) can handle 50 and 60hz + 480p/576p/720p/1080i signals. They both have VGA as well, and I noted that Samsung manual says it can handle 72hz via this connection, which would suggests it could potentially do a 24fps movie at 3:3 with no speed-up. But whether it can do 72hz over component or HDMI is yest another question I'm not qualified to answer -and it frustrates me that this sort of inofrmation is almost invisible/unobtainable to the consumer. On that note, I guess folks using projectors probably care/know more about the 24fps issue becuase I assume projectors are more likely to be able to do 48/72hz (or higher) as they are typcially going to be used to play films.
Yep - CRTs had a much tighter line rate/field rate spec due to the specialised scanning transformers and circuits needed to drive CRT line and field scans with a bright display. These days Plasmas and LCDs can be a bit more versatile.
That said - it would be interesting to know if your display actually displays at 72Hz, or just accepts a 72Hz signal and "copes".
72Hz over Component or HDMI in video format terms is a non-starter - it is up to the display to accept a 1080/24p signal and convert to 72Hz, not be fed it via the source. You don't find DVD players or HD-DVD/BluRay devices with component or HDMI 1080/72p outputs.
I suspect the 72Hz via VGA is because this is a standard PC option - though HTPC fans may run clever 60i to 24p de-interlacing and 3:3 frame repetition algorithms to convert 60i 3:2 24p DVDs to 72Hz 3:3 72p VGA output.
What I can say is that the issue of frame-rate incompatibility between film and TV should have been properly resolved with the new generation of TV's; Players and Hi Def standards, but that does not appear to be the case -at least, not in a really definative way.
There will always be more standards...
The EU licensing of HD-Ready - mandating 480/60i, 576/50i, 480/60p, 576/50p, 1080/60i, 1080/50i, 720/60p and 720/50p compatibility with both Component and HDCP equipped HDMI or DVI inputs has helped immensely in Europe - allowing broadcasters to stick at 50Hz (which they have to for myriad reasons) but single HD-DVD/BluRay releases in 1080/24p with 480/60i extras.
Quite a few displays and players now additionally support 1080/50p and 1080/60p optionally via some, but not all inputs, and this may only be a real issue with Full 1080 displays (i.e. those with 1920x1080 panel resolutions).
The addition of 1080/24p output from some HD-DVD/BluRay players is still pretty new - and really only benefits people who have displays that will display a 24p signal at a 2:2, 3:3, 4:4, 5:5 frame repetition to avoid the 3:2 judder of 60p.
Don't get me wrong 3:2 judder is not unwatchable - it is just noticable to those of us used to 2:2 motion. You only really notice it on linear motion - like rolling/crawling credits, tracking camera shots, and particularly unrealistic CGI camera pans.